Ratchet and Clank

RJWaters2

2008-04-17 04:16:03 am

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

Segments 8 & a possible 9 recorded. Not sure if I'm keeping it.

Psonar

2008-04-17 05:48:38 am

Long live SF64!

None of that attitude - beat that old segment 9!

Glad to hear of your progress! Any details?

RJWaters2

2008-04-17 05:55:34 am

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

You're probably right. It is the Pokitaru segment, and I end up starting the level with 10 bomb glove ammo, and that's it. I didn't fall off either boat/ship, but I missed a fish and the guy couldn't walk till I killed it. (It was by the button near then end, so it costed only ~5 seconds)

It needs redoing, I still want to get on Quartu by 1:00. (at this point, I've got about >15 minutes to do Orxon, Hoven, Gemlik, and Oltanis)

ShadowLaguna

2008-04-17 08:14:31 am

THE GAME!!

Quote:

Just out of interest, why does everyone call it "Challenge Mode"? Challenge Mode wasn't around until Locked & Loaded. In the first game, the difficulty level doesn't change on the second run through.

Anyway, if there's demand, I'll get to work on the project.

Because we're used to calling it that. Grin

Psyknux

2008-04-18 02:02:36 pm

Sub-Terrania!!!

I return. This post will have to be quick however as I only skimmed through what I've missed in the past month. That, and I am running late for work.

Quote:

If newmansage still goes here, I want to ask:
What was your best in-game segmented time? [aka the final time shown on the save/load screen]

I never tried doing the run in segments, but my very first practice run ended up being about 3:22 I believe (that's with about 30 deaths and no cutscene skipping).

And yes, Psonar is correct in assuming that I have been busy with real-life matters. It's not that I don't come here; I just couldn't find the time.

Also, if anyone (though I'm mostly addressing RJWaters2) wants me to reupload the practice run I had posted in the topic before then I will do that in a few hours.

I do still plan on doing a single-segment run, btw.

RJWaters2

2008-04-18 02:53:23 pm

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

Oh, yes, that could help me with some dodging strategies and long jumping consistency if you would reupload those.

Psyknux

Edit history:

Psyknux: 2009-10-20 07:33:39 pm

2008-04-18 06:40:45 pm

Sub-Terrania!!!

Okay, I have reuploaded the videos.

Part 1 is (EDIT: no longer) here and Part 2 is (EDIT: also no longer) here.

HalfMillennium

2008-04-18 10:32:25 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'm doing a test run of my TELT attempt using save warping. I'm currently at the Bomb Factory ready to go to the Gemlik Moonbase with a time of 1:00.

Kyzil Plateau (First visit): No comments here.
Tobruk Crater: I didn't save warp, but it went fairly well apart from that.
Metropolis: Had to do it in two parts due to a mistake, but otherwise good.
Outpost X11: Intentionally done in two parts, went well.
Logging Site: Pretty much perfect.
Blarg Station: Done in three parts, all went well.
Blackwater City: Quickest I've ever managed it.
Qwark's HQ: Another very quick one, slowed down toward the end though.
Fort Krontos: Done in two parts, achieved the shortcut on my first attempt.
Kogor Refinery (Clank): Done in two parts due to accident, really messed this level up.
Blarg Depot: Very quick, probably the quickest I've ever done it.
Jowai Resort: Went well up until the fighter battle, which took longer than it should have.
Kogor Refinery (Ratchet): I chose not to take the shortcut, otherwise this was fine.
Bomb Factory: A couple of wall jump-related mishaps, but otherwise fine.

I'm doing a test run of my TELT attempt using save warping. I'm currently at the Bomb Factory ready to go to the Gemlik Moonbase with a time of 1:00.

Kyzil Plateau (First visit): No comments here.
Tobruk Crater: I didn't save warp, but it went fairly well apart from that.
Metropolis: Had to do it in two parts due to a mistake, but otherwise good.
Outpost X11: Intentionally done in two parts, went well.
Logging Site: Pretty much perfect.
Blarg Station: Done in three parts, all went well.
Blackwater City: Quickest I've ever managed it.
Qwark's HQ: Another very quick one, slowed down toward the end though.
Fort Krontos: Done in two parts, achieved the shortcut on my first attempt.
Kogor Refinery (Clank): Done in two parts due to accident, really messed this level up.
Blarg Depot: Very quick, probably the quickest I've ever done it.
Jowai Resort: Went well up until the fighter battle, which took longer than it should have.
Kogor Refinery (Ratchet): I chose not to take the shortcut, otherwise this was fine.
Bomb Factory: A couple of wall jump-related mishaps, but otherwise fine.

RJWaters2

2008-04-19 12:42:41 am

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

You don't plan on having THAT many segments, do you? :p
What shortcut on Orxon didn't you do?

Psonar

Edit history:

Psonar: 2008-04-19 09:00:55 am

2008-04-19 09:00:34 am

Long live SF64!

I'm guessing the one where you walk up the metal duct with grav-boots and manage to get on top of the duct, then jump towards the nearest versa target and swingshot to it to skip a forcefield and a good 15-30 seconds of the level. Its been talked about a good deal further back in the topic, but I never thought to ask you if you were using it, RjWaters. Let me know if my cryptic instructions made any sense or if you're not sure where I'm referring to.

newmansage returns! Good to here from you, and thanks for the practice videos.... once things picked back up we went into video withdraw wondering why no one had a copy of your videos for reference. They are pretty old, but I'm sure it still might help RJWaters with the later levels, and I think its always important to keep the latest set of videos alive in any speedrunning thread. In case they ever go dead on FileFront again, I'm archiving them on my external harddrive for all eternity or until we have a decidedly better full game recording...

Say, I was wondering Walmart the other day when much to my surprise I saw Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters in amidst the PS2 games. I was very confused and not quite sure what had happened until I looked it up online that night to discover that Size Matters has been ported from the PSP to the PS2! Now I've read that it's a direct port and probably falls at the bottom of the ranks for the now 5 Ratchet and Clank games on PS2, but I don't think I can pass it by, since I don't have a PSP or PS3. Best of all... I hear it's short.

And to be sure and totally derail the topic, I was shocked that I couldn't find Deadlocked on Ebay... is it in such high demand that it's the only R&C game not up for grabs, or was there just fewer made or what? Thats just weird. Anyways, just wanted to get that stuff out to some fellow gamers - my apologies for going off topic.

Newmansage - glad to here speedrunning took the back burner when it needed to. Don't let the return mess you up... SDA isn't going anywhere, and when you're ready, we'll be here.

I'm guessing the one where you walk up the metal duct with grav-boots and manage to get on top of the duct, then jump towards the nearest versa target and swingshot to it to skip a forcefield and a good 15-30 seconds of the level.  Its been talked about a good deal further back in the topic, but I never thought to ask you if you were using it, RjWaters.  Let me know if my cryptic instructions made any sense or if you're not sure where I'm referring to.

newmansage returns! Good to here from you, and thanks for the practice videos.... once things picked back up we went into video withdraw wondering why no one had a copy of your videos for reference.  They are pretty old, but I'm sure it still might help RJWaters with the later levels, and I think its always important to keep the latest set of videos alive in any speedrunning thread. In case they ever go dead on FileFront again, I'm archiving them on my external harddrive for all eternity or until we have a decidedly better full game recording...

Say, I was wondering Walmart the other day when much to my surprise I saw Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters in amidst the PS2 games.  I was very confused and not quite sure what had happened until I looked it up online that night to discover that Size Matters has been ported from the PSP to the PS2!  Now I've read that it's a direct port and probably falls at the bottom of the ranks for the now 5 Ratchet and Clank games on PS2, but I don't think I can pass it by, since I don't have a PSP or PS3.  Best of all... I hear it's short.

And to be sure and totally derail the topic, I was shocked that I couldn't find Deadlocked on Ebay... is it in such high demand that it's the only R&C game not up for grabs, or was there just fewer made or what? Thats just weird. Anyways, just wanted to get that stuff out to some fellow gamers - my apologies for going off topic.

Newmansage - glad to here speedrunning took the back burner when it needed to.  Don't let the return mess you up... SDA isn't going anywhere, and when you're ready, we'll be here.

HalfMillennium

Edit history:

HalfMillennium: 2008-04-19 09:35:38 am

2008-04-19 09:31:01 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

You don't plan on having THAT many segments, do you? :p
What shortcut on Orxon didn't you do?

It uses save-warping. To save-warp for only a few parts and not for others is useless.

Basically, the plan is that wherever there's a mission, I save warp after it, the exceptions being Kyzil Plateau (First visit), Qwark's HQ, Kogor Refinery (Clank), Gemlik Moonbase and Kyzil Plateau (Second visit).

Regarding the vent shortcut, I did hover over it, so I did save a bit of time.

I was hoping that I could get some criticism of the run so far.

Linkinito

2008-04-19 09:50:01 am

This is my avatar

About newmansage's run, I found it very good and learned some things I didn't expected (like Orxon shortcut). And it was fast, 1:51 is a time I never thought to be possible. So <1:30 segmented... Wow Grin

Also I tried to do a Ratchet: Deadlocked/Gladiator speedrun, I planned it (found THE way to have the required dread points in a minimal time), I did a 2:28 SS (can't be really faster because of the numerous loading times between each challenge, and there is many challenges), but I can't record it (I don't own a DVD recorder or any other way to record it :'().

Psyknux

Edit history:

Psyknux: 2008-04-19 04:11:31 pm

2008-04-19 04:06:40 pm

Sub-Terrania!!!

Quote:

In case they ever go dead on FileFront again, I'm archiving them on my external harddrive for all eternity or until we have a decidedly better full game recording...

I recorded my 1:46 run but I believe that's when I started getting busy so I never had the time to make a video of it. I marked where the run begins on the tape but all of my tapes specifically labelled as a R&C practice speedrun do not seem to have it...and I have about 40 other tapes that I'm not looking forward to search through.

Quote:

Say, I was wondering Walmart the other day when much to my surprise I saw Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters in amidst the PS2 games. I was very confused and not quite sure what had happened until I looked it up online that night to discover that Size Matters has been ported from the PSP to the PS2! Now I've read that it's a direct port and probably falls at the bottom of the ranks for the now 5 Ratchet and Clank games on PS2, but I don't think I can pass it by, since I don't have a PSP or PS3. Best of all... I hear it's short.

It is short, with only 8 planets/levels (technically 9; 10 if you really want to be picky). I had thought about how quickly it could be beaten and thought it could be done in an hour. I'm not so sure about it now since the levels tend to take more time to complete than, say, this game, and there are many areas where the time you spend there is fixed and cannot be sped up. I made some estimations based on what I remember and my projected time comes to 1:16, and that's assuming that you can fell enemies fairly quickly. On a side note, I find the displays for bolts, ammo, etc. to be too small in the PS2 port.

Quote:

Newmansage - glad to here speedrunning took the back burner when it needed to. Don't let the return mess you up... SDA isn't going anywhere, and when you're ready, we'll be here.

Well, things have started slowing down at work so I'm planning to return to the run soon.

Also RJW...when you say <1:30, do you mean by the game timer or in real-time?

Oh, on another note: after watching segment 1 of RJW's run and seeing in his comments how he believed that jumping was faster than walking I decided to do some tests. It appears that, from my tests, jumping is indeed about 6% faster than running.

Lastly, I've decided that when I do an actual SS run that I will make my goal sub-1:45. I've spotted more improvements as I watched through my practice runs again and can see that 1:45 is easily (er...maybe that 's not the right word) possible.

[quote]In case they ever go dead on FileFront again, I'm archiving them on my external harddrive for all eternity or until we have a decidedly better full game recording...[/quote]
I recorded my 1:46 run but I believe that's when I started getting busy so I never had the time to make a video of it. I marked where the run begins on the tape but all of my tapes specifically labelled as a R&C practice speedrun do not seem to have it...and I have about 40 other tapes that I'm not looking forward to search through.

[quote]Say, I was wondering Walmart the other day when much to my surprise I saw Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters in amidst the PS2 games.  I was very confused and not quite sure what had happened until I looked it up online that night to discover that Size Matters has been ported from the PSP to the PS2!  Now I've read that it's a direct port and probably falls at the bottom of the ranks for the now 5 Ratchet and Clank games on PS2, but I don't think I can pass it by, since I don't have a PSP or PS3.  Best of all... I hear it's short.[/quote]
It is short, with only 8 planets/levels (technically 9; 10 if you really want to be picky). I had thought about how quickly it could be beaten and thought it could be done in an hour. I'm not so sure about it now since the levels tend to take more time to complete than, say, this game, and there are many areas where the time you spend there is fixed and cannot be sped up. I made some estimations based on what I remember and my projected time comes to 1:16, and that's assuming that you can fell enemies fairly quickly. On a side note, I find the displays for bolts, ammo, etc. to be too small in the PS2 port.

[quote]Newmansage - glad to here speedrunning took the back burner when it needed to.  Don't let the return mess you up... SDA isn't going anywhere, and when you're ready, we'll be here.[/quote]
Well, things have started slowing down at work so I'm planning to return to the run soon.

Also RJW...when you say <1:30, do you mean by the game timer or in real-time?

Oh, on another note: after watching segment 1 of RJW's run and seeing in his comments how he believed that jumping was faster than walking I decided to do some tests. It appears that, from my tests, jumping is indeed about 6% faster than running.

Lastly, I've decided that when I do an actual SS run that I will make my goal sub-1:45. I've spotted more improvements as I watched through my practice runs again and can see that 1:45 is easily (er...maybe that 's not the right word) possible.

HalfMillennium

2008-04-19 06:16:15 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

It appears that, from my tests, jumping is indeed about 6% faster than running.

Just one thing about that - it only applies to Ratchet. Clank slows down when he jumps, and I think Giant Clank does as well (punching is faster than walking for him anyway though).

Which pack is faster for boosts?

RJWaters2

2008-04-19 06:44:20 pm

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

Ah, yes, I was aware of that trick and did it in my previous speedrun.

I see that you do savewarp unnecessarily, like on Aridia, Metropolis (do Al's first), and on the BTS: When you come off the grindrail from the grindboot salesman, you land directly on the trespasser symbol to send out clank.

When I say <1:30, I really am just giving myself some leeway. I actually expect closer to 1:20, so I'd say <1:25 seems reasonable. If I had thought to savewarp like newmansage does, I could get <1:20. (not just from time saved, but with a higher level of optimization in shorter segments). It is based off the in-game timer, as that is what SDA uses.
Should anyone ever decide to beat my time in a segmented run, I'll do it again with savewarping, because if they beat me, that's how they're going to do it. Not to sound cocky, but I think my strategies are close to perfection. For example, on Oltanis, if I grab a ledge (instead of jump over it) the segment has failed. Frontflipping at a ledge will climb ratchet over it.

Thruster pack is much faster than the Heli-pack for long jumping, plus a jump-wait-flip-thrust-wait-hyperstrike can go the longest distance of any jump in the game. (not including distance downward -- I know if you jump off a building and glide down you'll go farther) This is maybe used once in my run. I might be too much trouble, as it doesn't have a decent rate of accomplishment.

Ah, yes, I was aware of that trick and did it in my previous speedrun.

I see that you do savewarp unnecessarily, like on Aridia, Metropolis (do Al's first), and on the BTS: When you come off the grindrail from the grindboot salesman, you land directly on the trespasser symbol to send out clank.

When I say <1:30, I really am just giving myself some leeway.  I actually expect closer to 1:20, so I'd say <1:25 seems reasonable.  If I had thought to savewarp like newmansage does, I could get <1:20. (not just from time saved, but with a higher level of optimization in shorter segments).  It is based off the in-game timer, as that is what SDA uses.
Should anyone ever decide to beat my time in a segmented run, I'll do it again with savewarping, because if they beat me, that's how they're going to do it.  Not to sound cocky, but I think my strategies are close to perfection.  For example, on Oltanis, if I grab a ledge (instead of jump over it) the segment has failed.  Frontflipping at a ledge will climb ratchet over it.

Thruster pack is much faster than the Heli-pack for long jumping, plus a jump-wait-flip-thrust-wait-hyperstrike can go the longest distance of any jump in the game. (not including distance downward -- I know if you jump off a building and glide down you'll go farther)  This is maybe used once in my run.  I might be too much trouble, as it doesn't have a decent rate of accomplishment.

HalfMillennium

2008-04-19 09:56:35 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I did do the main mission first. If the space flight screens count toward the total time, it might be quicker to do the assault course first. It's debatable whether save-warping is quicker, but a mistake on the assault course meant I had to split the level into two parts (the game automatically saves when I get the Infobot).

On the BTS, the rail takes longer than it would take me to get to the door unless, again, space flight screens count.

Perhaps I should clear this up: I am using the automatic save. I don't manually save at the end of a segment, I let the game save itself and quit the game as soon as I can. Is that acceptable?

Onto the mistakes, save warping on Novalis would save about 30 seconds. I lost about 20 seconds on BTS due to an uncooperative Gadgebot.

Orxon as Clank was abysmal. I lost about 30 seconds at least on the first part and had to spend 10 seconds at least getting to where the Magneboots are after that due to the automatic save and a mess-up in the second part. Uncooperative Gadgebots lost me about 30 seconds, me being too cautious lost me a further minute or so I'd imagine.

Pokitaru, I took at least a minute longer on the fighter battle than I should have. Does anyone know a specific route for this?

Orxon as Ratchet, performing the shortcut would probably save me fifteen seconds or so.

Hoven was alright - the helicos didn't kill me while I attacked the ship (they didn't even nearly kill me, which is unusual), but I did have two mistakes earlier on, costing about 30 seconds.

Overall, I think I can improve on my current time by about five minutes.

I [I]did[/I] do the main mission first. If the space flight screens count toward the total time, it might be quicker to do the assault course first. It's debatable whether save-warping is quicker, but a mistake on the assault course meant I had to split the level into two parts (the game automatically saves when I get the Infobot).

On the BTS, the rail takes longer than it would take me to get to the door unless, again, space flight screens count.

Perhaps I should clear this up: I am using the automatic save. I don't manually save at the end of a segment, I let the game save itself and quit the game as soon as I can. Is that acceptable?

Onto the mistakes, save warping on Novalis would save about 30 seconds. I lost about 20 seconds on BTS due to an uncooperative Gadgebot.

Orxon as Clank was abysmal. I lost about 30 seconds at least on the first part and had to spend 10 seconds at least getting to where the Magneboots are after that due to the automatic save and a mess-up in the second part. Uncooperative Gadgebots lost me about 30 seconds, me being too cautious lost me a further minute or so I'd imagine.

Pokitaru, I took at least a minute longer on the fighter battle than I should have. Does anyone know a specific route for this?

Orxon as Ratchet, performing the shortcut would probably save me fifteen seconds or so.

Hoven was alright - the helicos didn't kill me while I attacked the ship (they didn't even nearly kill me, which is unusual), but I did have two mistakes earlier on, costing about 30 seconds.

Overall, I think I can improve on my current time by about five minutes.

RJWaters2

2008-04-19 11:47:57 pm

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

Oh, I didn't realize you used autosave. The loading screens don't take time, no cutscenes do.

If you're segmenting, why don't you disable autosave in case you get something that saves the game but you had more to do that segment? Remove the memory card after loading, then replace it before getting the final item in that segment.

From your posted run, for the Pokitaru ship segment, I don't use my boost at the start there, so I can take out both of the ships directly ahead of me before turning around (to the left) and taking on the other two as I face them.

RJWaters2

2008-04-20 07:56:54 am

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

OK, segment 9 re-redone.
I had gotten pretty much the perfect segment, then stopped recording upon landing on Orxon (but before saving) I felt so stupid, I deleted it from my disc immediately. I should have kept it and the informed the verifiers...but I've gotten one nearly as good, with a tiny slip on the ship battle (those small blarg ships pushed me while shooting).

I'm expecting ~1:03 on Drek's Fleet.

HalfMillennium

2008-04-20 11:06:05 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

If you're segmenting, why don't you disable autosave in case you get something that saves the game but you had more to do that segment? Remove the memory card after loading, then replace it before getting the final item in that segment.

What about manual saving, does that affect the total time? I don't know whether the auto save automatically kicks in again when I put the memory card back in the console.

So, 1:03 on Drek's Fleet, is that with the game timer or in real time? Or is there no difference?

RJWaters2

2008-04-20 06:09:44 pm

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

When you plug in the memory card, a message (that normally appears when you load your game) telling you not to unplug your card when the autosave icon appears. So, yeah.

I'm always going off in-game timer (I don't keep a manual time)
I also did some long jump testing with the 2 packs yesterday on Gemlik Base. (the place where you get the new ship and infobot)
From where I spawn after death (near the middle of the runway) I can reach the yellow line opposite the ship with the thruster pack in about 6.54 seconds and with the helipack in 7.39 seconds. (just in case there was any debate over the speeds)
I noticed that you mainly used the helipack in your posted run, which cost you some time.

HalfMillennium

2008-04-20 07:29:09 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Are you sure it's supposed to be 1:03 and not 1:30 by Drek's Fleet? I can't see how 1:03 on Drek's Fleet is physically possible, even with save warping.

Regarding the use of packs, I only had the thruster pack for one whole level (the Bomb Factory, where it's easier to make the shortcuts using the heli pack anyway). It cost me ten seconds at the most to use the heli pack instead, possibly less.

RJWaters2

2008-04-20 09:46:56 pm

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

No, 1:03. I expect the end to be less than 1:30. :p
I think my route of complete minimalism helps greatly. (only necessary weapons bought) With optimal save warping and some better bolt manipulating (you get random amounts from boxes/enemies), I could have achieved 1:00 on Drek's Fleet, maybe.

And in your posted run, on the BTS, there's a trespasser locked room on the way to the mother alien with 2000 bolts in it that you pass up. It's much quicker than some other 2000 bolts you collect, surely.

HalfMillennium

2008-04-20 10:09:01 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

The file I've got starts with about 145,000 bolts. There's absolutely no need to collect bolts.

So, you're expecting to get to Drek's Fleet in one hour and three minutes - without save warping? I can't see that being possible unless your game's timer runs differently to mine.

RJWaters2

2008-04-21 01:00:30 am

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

Is that with all weapons/gold weapons as well?
Keep in mind, even though you've got these weapons, you don't waste time killing things that don't need to be killed.

I'm on NTSC, if that makes a difference.

HalfMillennium

2008-04-21 09:57:25 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

The only weapon I use in the whole run (with the exception of Gemlik Moonbase, because there are three control towers which are difficult to hit with the TELT) is the TELT. Nothing else.

After a Drek's Fleet which went well up to the fighter battle and then went downhill when three Blarg ships decided to target me at once (I had to break off from the turrets otherwise they would have killed me quickly) and several more followed as the battle went on, I'm currently ready to take off for Veldin with a total time of 1:21. That's with no non-automatic bolt collecting, no hold-ups because of TELT use, the shortcut on Kalebo III being used and, in total, less than five minutes' worth of mistakes (my time before going to the Gemlik Moonbase was 0:55 this time so I obviously did something right; personally I attribute it to the Clank sections being better).

The only improvements I can think of are a slightly better BTS route which only uses one save warp (saving a few seconds) and generally doing things faster. I still can't see how that can achieve 1:03 by Drek's Fleet (with save warping and the Kalebo III shortcut, it should be closer to 1:00, perhaps less).

The only weapon I use in the whole run (with the exception of Gemlik Moonbase, because there are three control towers which are difficult to hit with the TELT) is the TELT. Nothing else.

After a Drek's Fleet which went well up to the fighter battle and then went downhill when three Blarg ships decided to target me at once (I had to break off from the turrets otherwise they would have killed me quickly) and several more followed as the battle went on, I'm currently ready to take off for Veldin with a total time of 1:21. That's with no non-automatic bolt collecting, no hold-ups because of TELT use, the shortcut on Kalebo III being used and, in total, less than five minutes' worth of mistakes (my time before going to the Gemlik Moonbase was 0:55 this time so I obviously did something right; personally I attribute it to the Clank sections being better).

The only improvements I can think of are a slightly better BTS route which only uses one save warp (saving a few seconds) and generally doing things faster. I still can't see how that can achieve 1:03 by Drek's Fleet (with save warping and the Kalebo III shortcut, it should be closer to 1:00, perhaps less).