Ratchet and Clank

2007-08-29 02:27:54 am

Sub-Terrania!!!

Quote:

Wrench-only? I didn't know Drek was even possible with the wrench only.

Have you still not achieved the Kalebo III shortcut yet?

There's another shortcut I can give you, on Orxon as Ratchet. When you get to the first Magneboots path, if you walk off the edge of it as it turns toward the ground (or slightly before), you'll fall off, and can use the swingshot and perhaps the helipack to cross the barrier without having to deactivate it, which should save a few seconds. If you're not already using it, it should help.

Drek's possible but it's too time-consuming--it took me over two hours last time and I really don't want to do that again.

No, I still can't get over the fence on Kalebo III, sadly.

I already use a shortcut involving the magne-strip in Orxon: after it stops going up vertically and becomes horizontal (right before the flames), if you keep walking up on it, you (sometimes) end up on top of it, and from there you can jump and use the swingshot to get to the versa-target. However, you have to backtrack a tiny bit to get the infobot to move; otherwise when you get to the metal sphere it won't be there. Here's a vid demonstrating this, straight from my 2:27 run (now if only I could always do it on the first try like I did here...).

[quote]Wrench-only? I didn't know Drek was even possible with the wrench only.

Have you still not achieved the Kalebo III shortcut yet?

There's another shortcut I can give you, on Orxon as Ratchet. When you get to the first Magneboots path, if you walk off the edge of it as it turns toward the ground (or slightly before), you'll fall off, and can use the swingshot and perhaps the helipack to cross the barrier without having to deactivate it, which should save a few seconds. If you're not already using it, it should help.[/quote]
Drek's possible but it's too time-consuming--it took me over two hours last time and I really don't want to do that again.

No, I still can't get over the fence on Kalebo III, sadly.

I already use a shortcut involving the magne-strip in Orxon: after it stops going up vertically and becomes horizontal (right before the flames), if you keep walking up on it, you (sometimes) end up on top of it, and from there you can jump and use the swingshot to get to the versa-target. However, you have to backtrack a tiny bit to get the infobot to move; otherwise when you get to the metal sphere it won't be there. Here's a [url=http://www.geocities.com/ratchetsage/RC1-227_Orxon-R.avi]vid[/url] demonstrating this, straight from my 2:27 run (now if only I could always do it on the first try like I did here...).

RJWaters2

2007-08-29 02:32:19 am

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

Quote:

Here's a vid demonstrating this, straight from my 2:27 run

Page is down.

Psyknux

Edit history:

Psyknux: 2007-08-31 04:31:39 am

2007-08-29 07:21:03 am

Sub-Terrania!!!

Try again. The hourly bandwidth limit was probably reached when you tried the link.

I finished another run today. Everything was going along just fine until Quartu [2] where I died for the first time. I then proceeded to die twice trying to destroy the turrets at Drek's Fleet. Thankfully Veldin turned out ok. This run ended up even faster, with only the three aforementioned deaths. Total in-level times amounts to 1:42:39 and total completion time is 1:51:57 (with all these improvements I'm not sure what time to go for now... :/).

I'll try to upload this run somewhere if I have the time.

Psonar

2007-08-29 10:04:12 am

Long live SF64!

Awesome times - keep going!

I'm glad to see that boss method being put to some great use. Remember those 12 minute times you were quoting before?

Just keep working at it and I'm sure you'll get a keeper eventually. Good work!

HalfMillennium

Edit history:

HalfMillennium: 2007-08-29 12:18:30 pm

2007-08-29 12:18:15 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I can't see why the Kalebo III shortcut should be such a problem, unless it's been "fixed" in your game for some reason. You've got to use the stretch jump (hold R1, then press and hold X) and push toward the fence. As I said, it might be easier to do it with the crates on the left (slightly further back).

Psyknux

2007-08-29 01:48:44 pm

Sub-Terrania!!!

Which version of the game do you have, HalfMillennium? I have the Greatest Hits NTSC version, and in my game there isn't a stack of crates at the far end near the fence, and Boost Jumping makes me fall just short of clearing the fence.

HalfMillennium

Edit history:

HalfMillennium: 2007-08-29 02:34:29 pm

2007-08-29 02:24:48 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

That could be the problem. The Greatest Hits is the US re-release, isn't it? I'm using the original PAL version. It's possible that that the developers noticed this and fixed it for the re-release (a la Metroid Prime). Is there not a stack of crates on the left in your copy, either? If there is, it should be possible to do it using these crates (and the helipack), but it's got to be the jump where you launch straight up at first.

Psyknux

Edit history:

Psyknux: 2009-10-20 07:28:56 pm

2007-08-30 02:25:21 am

Sub-Terrania!!!

There is a stack of boxes on the left next to the fence, but all of my efforts to get over it via Boost Jumping have fallen short, so I probably won't be able to use this shortcut. :/

I wasn't able to free up as much space on my hard drive as I wanted so I had to split the run into two vids, one covering the beginning through Orxon [C] and the second covering Pokitaru onward.

EDIT: The first part can be found here (EDIT3: No longer available).
EDIT2: The second part can found here (EDIT3: Also not available).

I'll try a few more practice runs tomorrow; well, maybe I'll do another one tonight (still trying for a no-death run but one or two deaths seems inevitable will probably be okay with me). I aim to start on a run for submission late next week...hopefully.

HalfMillennium

Edit history:

HalfMillennium: 2007-08-30 12:09:30 pm

2007-08-30 12:09:23 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I understood that the one which launches you straight up was the Stretch Jump, not the Boost Jump. I might be wrong, but that's how I understood it. To perform it, you have to hold R1, then keep it held while you hold X, without pushing the control stick. From my experience, you need to have the helipack equipped (the thrusterpack doesn't go as high). It's the one where you fly up, then lift again in the air.

I'm downloading the video now, I'll comment when I've seen it.

Pweisger

2007-08-31 12:23:50 am

PwNzRd!

Downloading now. Will watch and give comments.

Psyknux

Edit history:

Psyknux: 2007-08-31 04:38:21 am

2007-08-31 04:22:41 am

Sub-Terrania!!!

Did another run today. This time there were no deaths, but I'm rather disappointed that I didn't improve much over the last run. In-level times total to 1:41:07 with an overall time of 1:50:24. It could have gone sub-1:50 if I hadn't run out of Devastator ammo on Kalebo III and if the Drek fight had been better (took 4:59 this time).

Some differences from the previous run include:
1) Not breaking the two sets of crates at the very beginning of Veldin (saves about 6 seconds)
2) Not pausing to collect bolts on the path to the plumber on Novalis. This allows me to reach the final set of rising and falling platforms one cycle earlier (saves about 8 seconds)
3) Not going around to destroy the large wall of crates before the train ride on Kerwan (saves about 15 seconds)
4) Buying the Blaster on Umbris rather than Rilgar, since it's closer and directly on the path (saves about 2 seconds)
5) Using the Blaster instead of the Bomb Glove to destroy the acid containers to kill the Blarg Gunners behind the Invinco-Lock room at Gemlik Base (saves about 3 seconds)
6) Buying the Pyrocitor at the central hub of the Gadgetron building on Kalebo III rather than at the ship, which requires me to go back a little ways (saves about a second)

So...that's about 35 seconds saved, in addition to the time saved by not dying. My goal is now sub-1:50 with no deaths. Let's see if I can do this...

Did another run today. This time there were no deaths, but I'm rather disappointed that I didn't improve much over the last run. In-level times total to 1:41:07 with an overall time of [b]1:50:24[/b]. It could have gone sub-1:50 if I hadn't run out of Devastator ammo on Kalebo III and if the Drek fight had been better (took 4:59 this time).

Some differences from the previous run include:
1) Not breaking the two sets of crates at the very beginning of Veldin (saves about 6 seconds)
2) Not pausing to collect bolts on the path to the plumber on Novalis. This allows me to reach the final set of rising and falling platforms one cycle earlier (saves about 8 seconds)
3) Not going around to destroy the large wall of crates before the train ride on Kerwan (saves about 15 seconds)
4) Buying the Blaster on Umbris rather than Rilgar, since it's closer and directly on the path (saves about 2 seconds)
5) Using the Blaster instead of the Bomb Glove to destroy the acid containers to kill the Blarg Gunners behind the Invinco-Lock room at Gemlik Base (saves about 3 seconds)
6) Buying the Pyrocitor at the central hub of the Gadgetron building on Kalebo III rather than at the ship, which requires me to go back a little ways (saves about a second)

So...that's about 35 seconds saved, in addition to the time saved by not dying. My goal is now sub-1:50 with no deaths. Let's see if I can do this...

HalfMillennium

2007-08-31 02:02:51 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I might have the solution. There's a shortcut on Batalia which you don't use in the run. You activate one side of the bridge near the city, then use it to launch yourself onto the vent. Instead of doing this, you can run toward the vent from the ground, use the helipack to launch yourself up, and grab the edge of the vent. This might cause problems with bolt collecting, but if not, it should save at least 30 seconds.

Psyknux

Edit history:

Psyknux: 2007-09-01 06:03:35 pm

2007-09-01 01:32:41 am

Sub-Terrania!!!

Well, actually, after comparing the 1:50 run with the 1:52 run, I was a bit slower on many planets. Comparison of the latest run to the previous run:

Level	Latest run	Previous run
Veldin	1:22	1:29
Novalis	3:18	3:24
Kerwan	5:32	5:44
Aridia	3:41	3:37
Eudora	4:08	3:51
Nebula G34	8:26	8:34
Rilgar	3:02	3:28
Umbris	8:05	7:42
Batalia	5:10	5:05
Gaspar	2:37	2:40
Orxon [C]	7:14	7:11
Pokitaru	4:56	4:42
Orxon [R]	1:53	2:14
Hoven	3:04	2:57
Gemlik Base	8:17	8:35
Oltanis	2:34	2:31
Quartu [1]	2:55	2:45
Kalebo III	8:01	8:06
Quartu [2]	2:27	3:08
Drek's Fleet	4:19	5:10
Veldin	10:06	9:46

Some things to consider when comparing some of these times:
- I bought the Blaster at Umbris in the latest run; in the previous run I bought it at Rilgar.
- I bought the Devastator at Hoven in the latest run; in the previous run I bought it at Pokitaru.
- The previous run had three deaths: one on Quartu [2], and two on Drek's Fleet.

Aridia and Eudora are bound to be slightly slower on my newer runs since I'm trying to collect more bolts there than in Veldin, Novalis, and Kerwan.

Also, I'm starting to think that they made the Boost Jump weaker in my version compared to yours, HalfMillennium, as I can't quite reach the magne-strip in Batalia, either...

EDIT: Tried another run doing a few things different this time (mostly opening that locked room in Nebula G34 with ~1,000 bolts...why did I think that room only had 300?...). This allowed me to get the Devastator on Gaspar, which helps on Hoven, as well as not having to stop for out of the way bolts on some planets. Unfortunately there were two deaths in the run, both resulting from me getting knocked off a cliff (one on Oltanis and the other on Veldin). If it weren't for those deaths the run probably would've gone sub-1:50, but as it stands, it has an estimated completion time of 1:51:08. The Drek fight turned out well at least... (4:26)

Well, actually, after comparing the 1:50 run with the 1:52 run, I was a bit slower on many planets. Comparison of the latest run to the previous run:

[table]
[tr][td]Level[/td][td]Latest run[/td][td]Previous run[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Veldin[/td][td]1:22[/td][td]1:29[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Novalis[/td][td]3:18[/td][td]3:24[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kerwan[/td][td]5:32[/td][td]5:44[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Aridia[/td][td]3:41[/td][td]3:37[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Eudora[/td][td]4:08[/td][td]3:51[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Nebula G34[/td][td]8:26[/td][td]8:34[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rilgar[/td][td]3:02[/td][td]3:28[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Umbris[/td][td]8:05[/td][td]7:42[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Batalia[/td][td]5:10[/td][td]5:05[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Gaspar[/td][td]2:37[/td][td]2:40[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Orxon [C][/td][td]7:14[/td][td]7:11[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pokitaru[/td][td]4:56[/td][td]4:42[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Orxon [R][/td][td]1:53[/td][td]2:14[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hoven[/td][td]3:04[/td][td]2:57[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Gemlik Base[/td][td]8:17[/td][td]8:35[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Oltanis[/td][td]2:34[/td][td]2:31[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Quartu [1][/td][td]2:55[/td][td]2:45[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kalebo III[/td][td]8:01[/td][td]8:06[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Quartu [2][/td][td]2:27[/td][td]3:08[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Drek's Fleet[/td][td]4:19[/td][td]5:10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Veldin[/td][td]10:06[/td][td]9:46[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Some things to consider when comparing some of these times:
- I bought the Blaster at Umbris in the latest run; in the previous run I bought it at Rilgar.
- I bought the Devastator at Hoven in the latest run; in the previous run I bought it at Pokitaru.
- The previous run had three deaths: one on Quartu [2], and two on Drek's Fleet.

Aridia and Eudora are bound to be slightly slower on my newer runs since I'm trying to collect more bolts there than in Veldin, Novalis, and Kerwan.

Also, I'm starting to think that they made the Boost Jump weaker in my version compared to yours, HalfMillennium, as I can't quite reach the magne-strip in Batalia, either...

[b]EDIT:[/b] Tried another run doing a few things different this time (mostly opening that locked room in Nebula G34 with ~1,000 bolts...why did I think that room only had 300?...). This allowed me to get the Devastator on Gaspar, which helps on Hoven, as well as not having to stop for out of the way bolts on some planets. Unfortunately there were two deaths in the run, both resulting from me getting knocked off a cliff (one on Oltanis and the other on Veldin). If it weren't for those deaths the run probably would've gone sub-1:50, but as it stands, it has an estimated completion time of 1:51:08. The Drek fight turned out well at least... (4:26)

HalfMillennium

2007-09-01 09:29:03 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

You may be right about the move not taking you as high on your copy of the game. Both of the tricks I mentioned are only barely within the range on my version, so it could be this way. The only other difference is that I'm playing it in the French language option.

You lost 23 seconds on Umbris and gained 26 on Rilgar, a total gain of 3 seconds. We'll have to see whether buying the Devastator on Hoven is better than buying it on Pokitaru. Getting the Devastator on Gaspar is a good idea to me.

DeadlyLegion

2007-09-02 09:29:09 am

so, Is this run gonna happon I have been anticipating it for long now, but it's 9 months since the thread was last active. Abandoned?

NK3233

2007-09-02 11:34:43 am

It's-a me, Stalin!

What are you talking about? It was last active yesterday.

deadlylegion

2007-09-02 11:37:07 am

Oi sorry I was an idiot. Confused september with january lol. So how is it going with the run is it done for download soon?

NK3233

2007-09-02 02:42:00 pm

It's-a me, Stalin!

Confusing september with january is a common mistake, and needs no explaination.

I don't think the run will be ready for a while, seems like it needs much revision.

deadlylegion

2007-09-02 03:55:28 pm

so to avoid reading through 15 pages of comments what in the end did they decide about including cutscenes?

HalfMillennium

Edit history:

HalfMillennium: 2007-09-02 04:57:34 pm

2007-09-02 04:56:01 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

All cutscenes are skipped. The run doesn't need much revision, the only things which need considering now are where to buy certain weapons and a few small tricks elsewhere.

Psyknux

Edit history:

Psyknux: 2009-10-20 07:32:14 pm

2007-09-03 06:14:32 pm

Sub-Terrania!!!

Okay, I tried a test run trying out different things to see what will work and what won't. Even though I was fooling around with a lot of things and wasted a bit of time, especially on Umbris, I ended up with an approximate time of 1:49:48. And this is with about two minutes wasted (one minute due to a death near the end of Clank's section of Nebula G34, thirty seconds on Umbris seeing if it was worth it to open that room right after the part where you jump around the fences--turns out it wasn't, and thirty seconds on the Drek fight since he did his blue plasma sphere attack and I had run out of Devastator ammo).

Some more things I do different:
- I only get crates that are directly or near-directly on my path. So those crates on Veldin and Kerwan that I normally take ten seconds or so to get will be left alone.
- I'm going to go ahead and use the Novalis shortcut that was suggested to me when I first began this. After doing this and the above note, I was worried that my bolt counts would be far lower than my targets, but after going through this run I actually ended up with 2000 more bolts than I normally do (e.g. at the end of Nebula G34 I had a little over 7000 bolts, and that was after buying the Blaster). I am at a loss to explain how this happened.
- Speaking of the Blaster, I now buy it at the beginning of Nebula G34, since it helps me get ammo for it while at the station, plus it helps a little against the Alien Queen. This also helps when clearing the pipes on Rilgar so I can break the grates quicker, allowing me to Stretch Jump through the pipes rather than just run. This does, however, have the side effect of switching the Blaster's and Hydrodisplacer's locations on my quick select menu (Blaster is now on the bottom, Hydrodisplacer on the bottom-left), which messed me up and slowed me down a few times during the run.
- Against the Snagglebeast I exclusively use the Blaster now, since it damages the Snagglebeast far faster than either the wrench or the Bomb Glove.
- When destroying the first helicopter on Hoven I immediately jump to where the moving platform appears since it will appear under me (if everything is timed right).
- When I'm about to leave Kalebo III, if I have max Devastator ammo I skip breaking all the crates in the area around the ship.
- If I have at least 8 Devastator missiles when I get to Drek's Fleet, I don't buy more. I should only need 8 at the most, anyway.

As for when I will have a run ready to submit, I'm aiming for the end of the month at the latest, and next weekend at the earliest. If you didn't see my previous posts, I have a video of my 1:51:57 practice run up on FileFront; part 1 is (EDIT2: no longer) here and part 2 is (EDIT2: also no longer) here (I had to split the run due to insufficient space on my hard drive). Remember that I've changed a lot of what I do since then, so if it seems like I'm wasting time in the video I probably don't do that anymore now.

EDIT: Just tried another run. There was one death on Hoven that shouldn't have happened as well as a few other blunders. Total estimated time is 1:50:01. Looks like that as long as there are no deaths in the run I'll have sub-1:50 with no problems.

Okay, I tried a test run trying out different things to see what will work and what won't. Even though I was fooling around with a lot of things and wasted a bit of time, especially on Umbris, I ended up with an approximate time of [b]1:49:48[/b]. And this is with about two minutes wasted (one minute due to a death near the end of Clank's section of Nebula G34, thirty seconds on Umbris seeing if it was worth it to open that room right after the part where you jump around the fences--turns out it wasn't, and thirty seconds on the Drek fight since he did his blue plasma sphere attack and I had run out of Devastator ammo).

Some more things I do different:
- I only get crates that are directly or near-directly on my path. So those crates on Veldin and Kerwan that I normally take ten seconds or so to get will be left alone.
- I'm going to go ahead and use the Novalis shortcut that was suggested to me when I first began this. After doing this and the above note, I was worried that my bolt counts would be far lower than my targets, but after going through this run I actually ended up with 2000 [i]more[/i] bolts than I normally do (e.g. at the end of Nebula G34 I had a little over 7000 bolts, and that was [i]after[/i] buying the Blaster). I am at a loss to explain how this happened.
- Speaking of the Blaster, I now buy it at the beginning of Nebula G34, since it helps me get ammo for it while at the station, plus it helps a little against the Alien Queen. This also helps when clearing the pipes on Rilgar so I can break the grates quicker, allowing me to Stretch Jump through the pipes rather than just run. This does, however, have the side effect of switching the Blaster's and Hydrodisplacer's locations on my quick select menu (Blaster is now on the bottom, Hydrodisplacer on the bottom-left), which messed me up and slowed me down a few times during the run.
- Against the Snagglebeast I exclusively use the Blaster now, since it damages the Snagglebeast far faster than either the wrench or the Bomb Glove.
- When destroying the first helicopter on Hoven I immediately jump to where the moving platform appears since it will appear under me (if everything is timed right).
- When I'm about to leave Kalebo III, if I have max Devastator ammo I skip breaking all the crates in the area around the ship.
- If I have at least 8 Devastator missiles when I get to Drek's Fleet, I don't buy more. I should only need 8 at the most, anyway.

As for when I will have a run ready to submit, I'm aiming for the end of the month at the latest, and next weekend at the earliest. If you didn't see my previous posts, I have a video of my 1:51:57 practice run up on FileFront; part 1 is (EDIT2: no longer) here and part 2 is (EDIT2: also no longer) here (I had to split the run due to insufficient space on my hard drive). Remember that I've changed a lot of what I do since then, so if it seems like I'm wasting time in the video I probably don't do that anymore now.

[b]EDIT:[/b] Just tried another run. There was one death on Hoven that shouldn't have happened as well as a few other blunders. Total estimated time is 1:50:01. Looks like that as long as there are no deaths in the run I'll have sub-1:50 with no problems.

HalfMillennium

2007-09-03 09:41:53 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Something strange in the run. When you started chasing after Drek, the boss music didn't start.

What's the Novalis shortcut you mentioned?

Psyknux

2007-09-03 11:04:46 pm

Sub-Terrania!!!

Er, I don't recall there being boss music for Drek.

Regarding the Novalis shortcut:

Quote:

You might already know this but there is a way to skip the bridge that gets bombed part at novalis when going to see the mayor of the planet or whatever. To do this head towards the river and jump in right northeast I think of a raised platform-ish object. Then once in the creek there is a rock you can jump on. Can't really describe but you'll find it if you mess around. Once you find it you just jump over to the other side...saves a few seconds.

HalfMillennium

2007-09-04 03:19:21 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

That's strange, because in my copy, the music definitely changes, and that's the only point in the game where this particular music plays. I was wondering if you'd skipped the trigger or something. I can't think of any reason to remove it from the re-release - maybe it's only in the PAL version?

The only thing I think could be worked on is skipping the Suck Cannon. The Alien Queen would be slightly longer and harder without it and Veldin 2 might be more difficult. The biggest need for it seems to be the ship at Nebula G34, and unless you go through with the Blaster firing constantly, it might be a problem. The Pokitaru sequences, I've nearly perfected a way of getting through them without the Suck Cannon and with only the other weapons you have at this point in the run.

NK3233

2007-09-04 03:28:32 pm

It's-a me, Stalin!

I can't watch anything on filefront, the screen just appears grey.

And did you use my umbris shortcut?