RADIATOR STORIES

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2009-11-18 05:36:10 am

2006-08-21 06:27:29 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

okay, so i marathoned this game for about 16 hours yesterday and finished it. it was pretty damned frustrating, really, since at the beginning i wasn't doing jack for damage (haha jack!) and the encounters are frustrating as hell to avoid...and flee balls fail (well, maybe not, but i could never figure out how they work). the battle system was a little slow too but...i really loved this game.

i picked fairy side, and i'm working on a new playthrough for humans right now. anyway i wanted to start this thread for some reason, even though i've only played half of the game. part of it is that we have to start somewhere, and as far as i know only between 3 and 5 of us have played this game at all (missilewaster if you haven't gotten it yet and are reading this, it's sooo worth your time/money :P). getting others out of the woodwork (if there are any) would be great.

anyway something i couldn't figure out is if [day/night] time passes when you're in battle...i don't think so...which is too bad (two things i learned when i read an faq: apparently the bounty from the crocogator job can go to 10k dagols [seems like it could be worth manipulating], and you have to stay out of the house for two days after the parsec event for ridley's birthday party. that part will suck). anyway the thing for me was that for the first 1/3 of the game i was doing between 2 and 6 damage per hit to most things. Sad

it changed after i got the sword from the sewer monster, so i have to think that it's required really. with this in mind though the 4:58 at ultimagarden totally blows my freaking mind. in fact i can't understand what they did at all. well i have some ideas esp. regarding the final boss, who took me about 10 minutes of keeping my party alive in vain and then 40 minutes of circle-strafing alone...but...

you know, that's even final save time probably so...that makes it a little easier to see, but what gives?

Thread title:

okay, so i marathoned this game for about 16 hours yesterday and finished it.  it was pretty damned frustrating, really, since at the beginning i wasn't doing jack for damage (haha jack!) and the encounters are frustrating as hell to avoid...and flee balls fail (well, maybe not, but i could never figure out how they work).  the battle system was a little slow too but...i [i]really loved this game[/i].

i picked fairy side, and i'm working on a new playthrough for humans right now.  anyway i wanted to start this thread for some reason, even though i've only played half of the game.  part of it is that we have to start somewhere, and as far as i know only between 3 and 5 of us have played this game at all (missilewaster if you haven't gotten it yet and are reading this, it's sooo worth your time/money :P).  getting others out of the woodwork (if there are any) would be great.

anyway something i couldn't figure out is if [day/night] time passes when you're in battle...i don't think so...which is too bad (two things i learned when i read an faq: apparently the bounty from the crocogator job can go to 10k dagols [seems like it could be worth manipulating], and you have to stay out of the house for two days after the parsec event for ridley's birthday party.  that part will suck).  anyway the thing for me was that for the first 1/3 of the game i was doing between 2 and 6 damage per hit to most things. :(  it changed after i got the sword from the sewer monster, so i have to think that it's required really.  with this in mind though the 4:58 at ultimagarden totally [i]blows my freaking mind[/i].  in fact i can't understand what they did at all.  well i have some ideas esp. regarding the final boss, who took me about 10 minutes of keeping my party alive in vain and then 40 minutes of circle-strafing alone...but...

you know, that's even final save time probably so...that makes it a little easier to see, but what gives?

Cauldrath

2006-08-21 04:02:55 pm

The baddle haz jusd begunn!

If I had to guess, it was probably using a new game+ and Tri-Emblem. If you use that, everything at the beginning dies extremely quickly, and you can get the sword from clearing the training before leaving the castle, so things continue to die quickly as you go through the game. Not to mention the massive amounts of exp you can get from those last few training missions at that stage in the game. Of course, that makes all the battles you are forced to lose all the more annoying, especially when a measly blood orc can take more damage than the Ethereal Queen.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2007-08-31 07:56:34 am

2006-08-29 03:46:42 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

ok! new stuff, courtesy of molotov.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fogu_dai2002%2Fgameradi2.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fogu_dai2002%2Fgameradi1.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

ss runs done in 5:14 (human) and 5:31 (non-human). i'm going to be making sense of some of the weirdest stuff (esp. non-humans) during econ and lunch tomorrow...

anyway, the closeness to the apparently segmented time confounds me. assuming i run this game, it will be ss now (assuming what i've figured out for cross really works) though i'm still confused because flee balls seem to totally suck. what am i missing this time?

EDIT: Although I don't feel like bumping this, I will note that I have been toying with this run. Unfortunately, an hour in, the Japanese time appears way out of my leauge at the moment. In four (I think) segments, I fell about 4:00 behind I think. Let's see...I think I was at roughly 10:30+ after all the opening scenes. Then I'm drawing a blank, but I avoided every encounter on the way to Earth Valley. Then 40:00 after the dwarves mission (this seems like a killer since there should be way less than 7 minutes of stuff after the goblin trio fight). I avoided all the fights except the buffalos and wolves (which I don't think can be dodged without the Feather Earring, though somehow I dodged that spider at the fork in Nowem, which I'd never done before) on the Genius mission, except for a Squirrel in a Tree in Nowem, but the Flee Ball really pulled it off. I made a pretty huge mistake in Forest Metropolis re: where to go, so that's like 45 seconds-1 minute probably.

After the blood orc fight, he's got 57 minutes, but I was at 58:10 when I saved right before those scenes.

Actually though, this is much better than having more than double the time of the run you're comparing yourself to. Tongue

This isn't very high on my priorities list right now-I need to finally beat [Chrono, heh] Cross, I'm farming SO3 trophies for 4D (EM Stun MP=the broken ^_^ but I also did half of "Chain of 500" tonight. NOT FUN.), and of course there's still still still still Lufia, and a bunch of other games I haven't beaten. And more SO3. But tell me I'm not the only one who thinks the dungeon design in that game tends toward abysmal...like there was one good team and two bad teams, and the good team went on to do the level design on RS too Tongue

ok!  new stuff, courtesy of molotov.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fogu_dai2002%2Fgameradi2.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fogu_dai2002%2Fgameradi1.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

ss runs done in 5:14 (human) and 5:31 (non-human).  i'm going to be making sense of some of the weirdest stuff (esp. non-humans) during econ and lunch tomorrow...

anyway, the closeness to the apparently segmented time confounds me.  assuming i run this game, it will be ss now (assuming what i've figured out for cross really works) though i'm still confused because flee balls seem to totally suck.  what am i missing this time?

EDIT: Although I don't feel like bumping this, I will note that I have been toying with this run.  Unfortunately, an [i]hour[/i] in, the Japanese time appears way out of my leauge at the moment.  In four (I think) segments, I fell about 4:00 behind I think.  Let's see...I think I was at roughly 10:30+ after all the opening scenes.  Then I'm drawing a blank, but I avoided every encounter on the way to Earth Valley.  Then 40:00 after the dwarves mission (this seems like a killer since there should be way less than 7 minutes of stuff after the goblin trio fight).  I avoided all the fights except the buffalos and wolves (which I don't think can be dodged without the Feather Earring, though somehow I dodged that spider at the fork in Nowem, which I'd never done before) on the Genius mission, except for a Squirrel in a Tree in Nowem, but the Flee Ball really pulled it off.  I made a pretty huge mistake in Forest Metropolis re: where to go, so that's like 45 seconds-1 minute probably.

After the blood orc fight, he's got 57 minutes, but I was at 58:10 when I [i]saved[/i] right before those scenes.

Actually though, this is much better than having more than double the time of the run you're comparing yourself to. :P  This isn't very high on my priorities list right now-I need to finally beat [Chrono, heh] Cross, I'm farming SO3 trophies for 4D (EM Stun MP=the broken ^_^ but I also did half of "Chain of 500" tonight.  NOT FUN.), and of course there's still still still still Lufia, and a bunch of other games I haven't beaten.  And more SO3.  But tell me I'm not the only one who thinks the dungeon design in that game tends toward abysmal...like there was one good team and two bad teams, and the good team went on to do the level design on RS too :P

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2006-11-03 11:34:37 pm

2006-11-03 11:08:25 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

There's painfully few replies here. I'll contribute one, although I don't think I have anything to say that isn't too obvious.

Time doesn't elapse in battle.

There's all sorts of little random things in this game like the crocogator reward, goblin trio fight appearing, etc that make the game cool when you play again, or on the other side, that don't sound too hot for running. I think they're all set in stone when you start a game too, so I don't think you can manipulate, but I haven't tested.

The UG times were new game.

I knew about those guides, and it's kinda challenging to figure out what all the words translated phonetically in brackets mean.

Now of course the guides know much better than I do, so if they disagree with any of this, please follow them and not me. But I think you wouldn't need to level at all (not a difficult game, and you can poison some otherwise tough bosses like Gawain). I would recommend the Feather Earring even though it takes time to get, because the running speed increase is 30% I think, and it also helps you avoid guys. Near the beginning of the game, you have a little segment where some stuff happens and then Jack automatically says "oh, time for ___". I think you could recruit the people you need, get the Feather Earring, and then get warped out to the cutscene.

For characters, it seems like you would just prioritize characters that are the fastest to recruit. People that come to mind are Cosmo on the human side, and Romaria and Gil (if you're high enough level) on the nonhuman side.

Flee Balls are pretty obvious, as should be what chests to get I think (on the low side). You should probably poison everyone that you can too, to speed things up.

Just think about how utterly sick planning a fully optimized 100% run would be, with getting all the characters. That's not something I ever expect to see, at least without the use of specialized assassin speedrunning supercomputers.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to say, if you want to choose between segmented and SS, I could really see either for this game. I'm of the opinion that it's better to do SS whenever you can, so maybe you try that. It might even be easier for RS I think.

Now to get personal, spineshark. You've tossed out several ideas before for things you are going to do. ToP, Rudra no Hihou, Lemmings 2 TAS, etc. I've always maintained that you should finally find something and stick with it to the end. I am fully convinced that this is it. You love the game, what more is there to it? I would be willing to help you out of course. And don't feel bad about the Japanese time. Because the cutscenes are unskippable, you're probably underestimating the effect of version differences. And even if you're not, this wouldn't be the first time that successful, very good SDA runs were not quite as fast as runs elsewhere. That's no problem; our advantage is that we have videos for all to watch. Do this one for yourself.

Let me know what you think.

There's painfully few replies here. I'll contribute one, although I don't think I have anything to say that isn't too obvious.

Time doesn't elapse in battle.

There's all sorts of little random things in this game like the crocogator reward, goblin trio fight appearing, etc that make the game cool when you play again, or on the other side, that don't sound too hot for running. I think they're all set in stone when you start a game too, so I don't think you can manipulate, but I haven't tested.

The UG times were new game.

I knew about those guides, and it's kinda challenging to figure out what all the words translated phonetically in brackets mean.

Now of course the guides know much better than I do, so if they disagree with any of this, please follow them and not me. But I think you wouldn't need to level [i]at all[/i] (not a difficult game, and you can poison some otherwise tough bosses like Gawain). I would recommend the Feather Earring even though it takes time to get, because the running speed increase is 30% I think, and it also helps you avoid guys. Near the beginning of the game, you have a little segment where some stuff happens and then Jack automatically says "oh, time for ___". I think you could recruit the people you need, get the Feather Earring, and then get warped out to the cutscene.

For characters, it seems like you would just prioritize characters that are the fastest to recruit. People that come to mind are Cosmo on the human side, and Romaria and Gil (if you're high enough level) on the nonhuman side.

Flee Balls are pretty obvious, as [i]should[/i] be what chests to get I think (on the low side). You should probably poison everyone that you can too, to speed things up.

Just think about how utterly sick planning a fully optimized 100% run would be, with getting all the characters. That's not something I ever expect to see, at least without the use of specialized assassin speedrunning supercomputers.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to say, if you want to choose between segmented and SS, I could really see either for this game. I'm of the opinion that it's better to do SS whenever you can, so maybe you try that. It might even be easier for RS I think.

Now to get personal, spineshark. You've tossed out several ideas before for things you are going to do. ToP, Rudra no Hihou, Lemmings 2 TAS, etc. I've always maintained that you should finally find something and stick with it to the end. I am fully convinced that this is it. You love the game, what more is there to it? I would be willing to help you out of course. And don't feel bad about the Japanese time. Because the cutscenes are unskippable, you're probably underestimating the effect of version differences. And even if you're not, this wouldn't be the first time that successful, [i]very good[/i] SDA runs were not quite as fast as runs elsewhere. That's no problem; our advantage is that we have videos for all to watch. Do this one for yourself.

Let me know what you think.

spineshark

2006-11-04 12:59:10 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Quote:

Time doesn't elapse in battle.

I basically decided that this is true, ultimately. The main questions I had were because of extraordinarily long fights that felt like they could have easily been an entire "day"...Gabriel (even more confusing because the room after him is dark), Gobblehoppe IX, and of course the sewer monster.

Quote:

There's all sorts of little random things in this game like the crocogator reward, goblin trio fight appearing, etc that make the game cool when you play again, or on the other side, that don't sound too hot for running. I think they're all set in stone when you start a game too, so I don't think you can manipulate, but I haven't tested.

Since I'm still working on this part, I haven't tested to see if Anastasia's reward can be messed with. Guessing "not in an enjoyable manner" though.

Quote:

Now of course the guides know much better than I do, so if they disagree with any of this, please follow them and not me. But I think you wouldn't need to level at all (not a difficult game, and you can poison some otherwise tough bosses like Gawain). I would recommend the Feather Earring even though it takes time to get, because the running speed increase is 30% I think, and it also helps you avoid guys. Near the beginning of the game, you have a little segment where some stuff happens and then Jack automatically says "oh, time for ___". I think you could recruit the people you need, get the Feather Earring, and then get warped out to the cutscene.

Yeah, the Feather Earring was definitely in my plans all along. Whenever I get there I'll test the exact requirements to get to Ridley's Birthday party but since what I've read indicates that it involves for one thing blowing two days away from your house, that sounds like the time, more or less. As for poisoning things, this too I've planned on (since, it was how I managed to defeat the Smilodons the first time). aaand, I've played too much Nel (fourth time today I've written, "this, too..." somewhere)

Quote:

For characters, it seems like you would just prioritize characters that are the fastest to recruit. People that come to mind are Cosmo on the human side, and Romaria and Gil (if you're high enough level) on the nonhuman side.

I suppose it's possible that Gil would be out of your league (solely on a level basis, of course Grin

) but I'd be sort of surprised, too. I didn't fight that many battles, particularly as the battles get easier to dodge as the game draws on, and I was still in the mid-to-high thirties at the end of the game. Which does make keeping party members alive sort of a chore.

Quote:

Flee Balls are pretty obvious, as should be what chests to get I think (on the low side). You should probably poison everyone that you can too, to speed things up.

Haha, the only chest that I remember distinctly in basically the entire game is the one with the Falvern. Which is actually one of my bigger questions, since its Volty [blow? the weak one...] is much more powerful than the other weapons at that point. Of course, it also takes a while before you can use it at all because for the first 1/4 of the battle he uses his fastest move and the one that lets him guard.

Quote:

Just think about how utterly sick planning a fully optimized 100% run would be, with getting all the characters. That's not something I ever expect to see, at least without the use of specialized assassin speedrunning supercomputers.

hahaha, glad I'm not the only one with sort of sick thoughts about this one. It almost seems easier than Majora's Mask, because the complexity is largely reduced by a factor of 3 (since each day is its own entity), but there are about 5x as many events and stuff.

Quote:

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to say, if you want to choose between segmented and SS, I could really see either for this game. I'm of the opinion that it's better to do SS whenever you can, so maybe you try that. It might even be easier for RS I think.

SS would mean waiting a lot longer to even start recording, as I don't just have idle five-hour blocks. But I think that I want to do it more.

Quote:

Let me know what you think.

Shall be done. Wink

[quote]Time doesn't elapse in battle.[/quote]
I basically decided that this is true, ultimately.  The main questions I had were because of extraordinarily long fights that felt like they could have easily been an entire "day"...Gabriel (even more confusing because the room after him is dark), Gobblehoppe IX, and of course the sewer monster.
[quote]There's all sorts of little random things in this game like the crocogator reward, goblin trio fight appearing, etc that make the game cool when you play again, or on the other side, that don't sound too hot for running. I think they're all set in stone when you start a game too, so I don't think you can manipulate, but I haven't tested.[/quote]
Since I'm still working on this part, I haven't tested to see if Anastasia's reward can be messed with.  Guessing "not in an enjoyable manner" though.
[quote]Now of course the guides know much better than I do, so if they disagree with any of this, please follow them and not me. But I think you wouldn't need to level [i]at all[/i] (not a difficult game, and you can poison some otherwise tough bosses like Gawain). I would recommend the Feather Earring even though it takes time to get, because the running speed increase is 30% I think, and it also helps you avoid guys. Near the beginning of the game, you have a little segment where some stuff happens and then Jack automatically says "oh, time for ___". I think you could recruit the people you need, get the Feather Earring, and then get warped out to the cutscene.[/quote]
Yeah, the Feather Earring was definitely in my plans all along.  Whenever I get there I'll test the exact requirements to get to Ridley's Birthday party but since what I've read indicates that it involves for one thing blowing two days away from your house, that sounds like the time, more or less.  As for poisoning things, this too I've planned on (since, it was how I managed to defeat the Smilodons the first time).  aaand, I've played too much Nel (fourth time today I've written, "this, too..." somewhere)
[quote]For characters, it seems like you would just prioritize characters that are the fastest to recruit. People that come to mind are Cosmo on the human side, and Romaria and Gil (if you're high enough level) on the nonhuman side.[/quote]
I suppose it's possible that Gil would be out of your league (solely on a level basis, of course ;D ) but I'd be sort of surprised, too.  I didn't fight [i]that[/i] many battles, particularly as the battles get easier to dodge as the game draws on, and I was still in the mid-to-high thirties at the end of the game.  Which does make keeping party members alive sort of a chore.
[quote]Flee Balls are pretty obvious, as [i]should[/i] be what chests to get I think (on the low side). You should probably poison everyone that you can too, to speed things up.[/quote]
Haha, the only chest that I remember distinctly in basically the entire game is the one with the Falvern.  Which is actually one of my bigger questions, since its Volty [blow?  the weak one...] is much more powerful than the other weapons at that point.  Of course, it also takes a while before you can use it at all because for the first 1/4 of the battle he uses his fastest move and the one that lets him guard.
[quote]Just think about how utterly sick planning a fully optimized 100% run would be, with getting all the characters. That's not something I ever expect to see, at least without the use of specialized assassin speedrunning supercomputers.[/quote]
hahaha, glad I'm not the only one with sort of sick thoughts about this one.  It almost seems easier than Majora's Mask, because the complexity is largely reduced by a factor of 3 (since each day is its own entity), but there are about 5x as many events and stuff.
[quote]Edit: Oh, and I forgot to say, if you want to choose between segmented and SS, I could really see either for this game. I'm of the opinion that it's better to do SS whenever you can, so maybe you try that. It might even be easier for RS I think.[/quote]
SS would mean waiting a lot longer to even start recording, as I don't just have idle five-hour blocks.  But I think that I want to do it more.
[quote]Let me know what you think.[/quote]
Shall be done. ;)

Enhasa

2006-11-04 08:58:05 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Since I'm still working on this part, I haven't tested to see if Anastasia's reward can be messed with. Guessing "not in an enjoyable manner" though.

This is why I think SS is a good idea.

Quote:

Yeah, the Feather Earring was definitely in my plans all along. Whenever I get there I'll test the exact requirements to get to Ridley's Birthday party but since what I've read indicates that it involves for one thing blowing two days away from your house, that sounds like the time, more or less. As for poisoning things, this too I've planned on (since, it was how I managed to defeat the Smilodons the first time).

I think this is what you mean anyway, but you'd get the Feather Earring ASAP, meaning before you get called to Vancoor or whatever the first one of those is. I didn't say it earlier, but the most important thing to do is figure out how all the triggers work. Which missions are required, when you can just sleep to the next one, and so forth. Not only is poisoning sometimes basically required at low levels, it's actually surprisingly fast.

Quote:

I suppose it's possible that Gil would be out of your league (solely on a level basis, of course Grin

) but I'd be sort of surprised, too.

When my brother played, he was level 21 I think at that time. It wasn't until he was going to the City of White Nights that he could recruit Gil. And yes, it is possible to go the entire game, including postgame, with minimum fights, and without characters you would probably need a guide for. This of course, means Goblin Song. You do know about that right? It seems like only a couple people on the internet do.

Quote:

Haha, the only chest that I remember distinctly in basically the entire game is the one with the Falvern. Which is actually one of my bigger questions, since its Volty [blow? the weak one...] is much more powerful than the other weapons at that point. Of course, it also takes a while before you can use it at all because for the first 1/4 of the battle he uses his fastest move and the one that lets him guard.

I think the Tsuchinoko Dumpling is worth it if you have someone who can use Volty. (Plus it's fun to say aloud.) This might not actually be feasible though; I'd have to look into it. Falvern maybe too. Unlike SO3, the battles in this game tend to be longer, and Jack will probably be doing most of the damage, so that would make weapons you can find a big deal.

All I was going to say about your recent PM is that I never suggested that you do any of those other things like the TAS. I think honestly doing this run in particular is very suited to you, and this is finally the time I figured I should convince you to stick with something. I never remotely felt that way before.

[quote]Since I'm still working on this part, I haven't tested to see if Anastasia's reward can be messed with.  Guessing "not in an enjoyable manner" though.[/quote]
This is why I think SS is a good idea.

[quote]Yeah, the Feather Earring was definitely in my plans all along.  Whenever I get there I'll test the exact requirements to get to Ridley's Birthday party but since what I've read indicates that it involves for one thing blowing two days away from your house, that sounds like the time, more or less.  As for poisoning things, this too I've planned on (since, it was how I managed to defeat the Smilodons the first time).[/quote]
I think this is what you mean anyway, but you'd get the Feather Earring ASAP, meaning before you get called to Vancoor or whatever the first one of those is. I didn't say it earlier, but the most important thing to do is figure out how all the triggers work. Which missions are required, when you can just sleep to the next one, and so forth. Not only is poisoning sometimes basically required at low levels, it's actually surprisingly fast.

[quote]I suppose it's possible that Gil would be out of your league (solely on a level basis, of course ;D ) but I'd be sort of surprised, too.[/quote]
When my brother played, he was level 21 I think at that time. It wasn't until he was going to the City of White Nights that he could recruit Gil. And yes, it is possible to go the entire game, including postgame, with minimum fights, and without characters you would probably need a guide for. This of course, means Goblin Song. You do know about that right? It seems like only a couple people on the internet do.

[quote]Haha, the only chest that I remember distinctly in basically the entire game is the one with the Falvern.  Which is actually one of my bigger questions, since its Volty [blow?  the weak one...] is much more powerful than the other weapons at that point.  Of course, it also takes a while before you can use it at all because for the first 1/4 of the battle he uses his fastest move and the one that lets him guard.[/quote]
I think the Tsuchinoko Dumpling is worth it if you have someone who can use Volty. (Plus it's fun to say aloud.) This might not actually be feasible though; I'd have to look into it. Falvern maybe too. Unlike SO3, the battles in this game tend to be longer, and Jack will probably be doing most of the damage, so that would make weapons you can find a big deal.

All I was going to say about your recent PM is that I never suggested that you do any of those other things like the TAS. I think honestly doing this run in particular is very suited to you, and this is finally the time I figured I should convince you to stick with something. I never remotely felt that way before.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-11-05 02:35:08 am

2006-11-05 02:34:27 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

That's all you meant? heh, true, but I have to wonder if there are ulterior motives. Tongue

I mean, if I...never mind.

Quote:

I think this is what you mean anyway, but you'd get the Feather Earring ASAP, meaning before you get called to Vancoor or whatever the first one of those is. I didn't say it earlier, but the most important thing to do is figure out how all the triggers work. Which missions are required, when you can just sleep to the next one, and so forth.

Huh, no, I wasn't saying that, though this sounds like a better idea. What I read is that you have to diddle around a lot after the first Parsec event (though this could easily be wrong) to get Leonard to come to your house. I figured this would be a good time, but I didn't think of the use you'd get from it earlier.

Quote:

This of course, means Goblin Song. You do know about that right? It seems like only a couple people on the internet do.

Hahaha yeah, it's not hard to find and when you read the description, I can't imagine that someone would see that and not think "well, I'd better try it out!"

Quote:

I think the Tsuchinoko Dumpling is worth it if you have someone who can use Volty. (Plus it's fun to say aloud.) This might not actually be feasible though; I'd have to look into it. Falvern maybe too. Unlike SO3, the battles in this game tend to be longer, and Jack will probably be doing most of the damage, so that would make weapons you can find a big deal.

I assume you're talking about finding the Tsuchinoko. The RTA write-up includes this, if I remember correctly so it doesn't sound impossible to me. For Fairy (which I'm still mostly talking about, since I liked it notably more than the Human path) you'll always have somebody with Volty at the end. =/ Gil pretty much does more damage than Jack during the main game, but it's sounding like he won't be recruitable until it's more or less too late. And, I really only remember the characters who are really easy or really frustrating to get. Though, something I remember from when my brother played, is that the new day starts at midnight for duel/recruitment purposes, so (otherwise annoying) characters like Alba and Mikey can be recruited in one cycle less than it first seems like. Not that Mikey is a good idea for a standard speedrun. Sad

hehe, this board prevents flooding. Barely. Never seen that before.

That's all you meant?  heh, true, but I have to wonder if there are ulterior motives. :P  I mean, if I...never mind.

[quote]I think this is what you mean anyway, but you'd get the Feather Earring ASAP, meaning before you get called to Vancoor or whatever the first one of those is. I didn't say it earlier, but the most important thing to do is figure out how all the triggers work. Which missions are required, when you can just sleep to the next one, and so forth.[/quote]
Huh, no, I wasn't saying that, though this sounds like a better idea.  What I read is that you have to diddle around a lot after the first Parsec event (though this could easily be wrong) to get Leonard to come to your house.  I figured this would be a good time, but I didn't think of the use you'd get from it earlier.

[quote]This of course, means Goblin Song. You do know about that right? It seems like only a couple people on the internet do.[/quote]
Hahaha yeah, it's not hard to find and when you read the description, I can't imagine that someone would see that and not think "well, I'd better try it out!"

[quote]I think the Tsuchinoko Dumpling is worth it if you have someone who can use Volty. (Plus it's fun to say aloud.) This might not actually be feasible though; I'd have to look into it. Falvern maybe too. Unlike SO3, the battles in this game tend to be longer, and Jack will probably be doing most of the damage, so that would make weapons you can find a big deal. [/quote]
I assume you're talking about finding the Tsuchinoko.  The RTA write-up includes this, if I remember correctly so it doesn't sound impossible to me.  For Fairy (which I'm still mostly talking about, since I liked it notably more than the Human path) you'll always have somebody with Volty at the end. =/  Gil pretty much does more damage than Jack during the main game, but it's sounding like he won't be recruitable until it's more or less too late.  And, I really only remember the characters who are really easy or really frustrating to get.  Though, something I remember from when my brother played, is that the new day starts at midnight for duel/recruitment purposes, so (otherwise annoying) characters like Alba and Mikey can be recruited in one cycle less than it first seems like.  Not that Mikey is a good idea for a standard speedrun. :(

hehe, this board prevents flooding.  Barely.  Never seen that before.

rock1644

2006-11-05 03:45:17 am

yes, a man carrying a gimp

While I really enjoyed this game, I really don't know what to say about speedrunning it, due to the way the game is designed.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2006-11-05 05:54:15 am

2006-11-05 05:44:16 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

I assume you're talking about finding the Tsuchinoko. The RTA write-up includes this, if I remember correctly so it doesn't sound impossible to me. For Fairy (which I'm still mostly talking about, since I liked it notably more than the Human path) you'll always have somebody with Volty at the end. =/

Actually I meant the Dumpling in the City of White Nights, which is a bit out of the way. SS I'm not sure Tsuchinoko farming is a good idea, but I guess it could work segmented. And about Ganz, duh I'm an idiot. But Ganz's Volty sucks anyway I think. But of course nothing compares to BAZOOKA WOLF!

And what are you talking about, Mikey pwns. Sad

Or did you not like my old avatar. At any rate, he's one of the only nonhumans who isn't bigoted towards humans, even if you go the human path. Plus I love his facial expression.

Quote:

hehe, this board prevents flooding. Barely. Never seen that before.

You obviously don't post overly long posts like I do. Sad

Edit: Whoops, I misread "flooding."

Also, I think a party with Fan but especially Marsha and Keane is hilarious. Fuck all these people with Elwen, Nyx, etc parties! I couldn't even figure out how to get Elwen since I didn't use a guide. :-/

[quote]I assume you're talking about finding the Tsuchinoko.  The RTA write-up includes this, if I remember correctly so it doesn't sound impossible to me.  For Fairy (which I'm still mostly talking about, since I liked it notably more than the Human path) you'll always have somebody with Volty at the end. =/[/quote]
Actually I meant the Dumpling in the City of White Nights, which is a bit out of the way. SS I'm not sure Tsuchinoko farming is a good idea, but I guess it could work segmented. And about Ganz, duh I'm an idiot. But Ganz's Volty sucks anyway I think. But of course nothing compares to BAZOOKA WOLF!

And what are you talking about, Mikey pwns. :( Or did you not like my old avatar. At any rate, he's one of the only nonhumans who isn't bigoted towards humans, even if you go the human path. Plus I love his facial expression.

[quote]hehe, this board prevents flooding.  Barely.  Never seen that before.[/quote]
You obviously don't post overly long posts like I do. :(

Edit: Whoops, I misread "flooding."

Also, I think a party with Fan but especially Marsha and Keane is hilarious. Fuck all these people with Elwen, Nyx, etc parties! I couldn't even figure out how to get Elwen since I didn't use a guide. :-/

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-11-05 05:51:07 am

2006-11-05 05:48:39 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

I like Mikey. I recruited him really late though, which meant waiting huge chunks of time each night, which kinda irked me. And yeah, Ganz' Volty is pretty bad. I sorta forgot about Gruel though, since I've spent by far the most time with my party of Fan/Marsha/Keane. >.< I'm all the way to Gabriel now!

And about flooding, it was just because I realized that I hadn't posted this right when I was posting another one, and...it says something like "you just posted less than 5 seconds ago!"

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-11-09 05:43:48 am

2006-11-09 05:43:04 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Okay so I defeated the Crocogator and reached level 12. Too many fights Sad

Oh well...it took me a little under 19 minutes. After this, Alba is right on the way to Anastasia. and after that, the duel counter is reset and he's right on the way to the Black Rose, where I intend to recruit Aidan for his Training Device.

As for a later game party, I'm thinking of just fighting the goblin trio and taking them (and swapping one out for Ganz once he forces his way into your party). I haven't used goblins much (mostly seen my brother messing with them a bit and Gruel/JJ (replaced by Valkyrie later)/Galvados Sad

a lot).

Anyway the thing that I always joke about the shopkeeper's party is that they're too greedy to bring you anything helpful for free. It would make up for their lack of battle skills maybe. =/ Come to think of it though, there's that fight in FFXII that would be impossible at the level it becomes available if you didn't get Larsa "Free Potions" Solidor for it. He's unbelievably fucking broken.

Okay so I defeated the Crocogator and reached level 12.  Too many fights :(  Oh well...it took me a little under 19 minutes.  After this, Alba is [i]right on the way[/i] to Anastasia.  and after that, the duel counter is reset and he's [i]right on the way[/i] to the Black Rose, where I intend to recruit Aidan for his Training Device.

As for a later game party, I'm thinking of just fighting the goblin trio and taking them (and swapping one out for Ganz once he forces his way into your party).  I haven't used goblins much (mostly seen my brother messing with them a bit and Gruel/JJ (replaced by Valkyrie later)/Galvados :( a lot).

Anyway the thing that I always joke about the shopkeeper's party is that they're too greedy to bring you anything helpful for free.  It would make up for their lack of battle skills maybe. =/  Come to think of it though, there's that fight in FFXII that would be impossible at the level it becomes available if you didn't get Larsa "Free Potions" Solidor for it.  He's unbelievably fucking broken.

Enhasa

2006-11-09 08:44:58 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I hate that little turd, but you're right, Aidan is a great idea since he's easy to get and he has a Training Device.

I don't know how appropriate Alba is for a run, but he is easy to get. Honestly, you should just ignore what I say and go with what the guide uses. (You can probably figure out what everything translated phonetically means.)

I know the nonhuman side a lot better for combat since I actually got must of them. IMHO the best goblins are Gruel, Gobrey (even though he's mostly a worse Gruel), and Ricky. I wouldn't bother with goblins since Gruel is way too long to get, and you have to backtrack for Gobrey (plus it'd be better to just use the Tsuchinoko Dumpling). JJ and Galvados are way overrated and suck compared to decent goblins (because of Goblin Song), but at least JJ comes for free I think.

Romaria seems obvious due to triple fireball, and so does Gil, once you can get him. Those two and Ganz could be your final party. Until you get Ganz, I assume you'd just use some guy you get for free. Or maybe while you're recruiting Romaria presplit, there's someone else you can get in Forest Metropolis real easy.

Google is down for me right now, and this is probably good info to have here anyway, but could you summarize what the runner does in those reports you have linked? That way I wouldn't have to talk out of my ass when someone else has already done most of the legwork.

I hate that little turd, but you're right, Aidan is a great idea since he's easy to get and he has a Training Device.

I don't know how appropriate Alba is for a run, but he is easy to get. Honestly, you should just ignore what I say and go with what the guide uses. (You can probably figure out what everything translated phonetically means.)

I know the nonhuman side a lot better for combat since I actually got must of them. IMHO the best goblins are Gruel, Gobrey (even though he's mostly a worse Gruel), and Ricky. I wouldn't bother with goblins since Gruel is way too long to get, and you have to backtrack for Gobrey (plus it'd be better to just use the Tsuchinoko Dumpling). JJ and Galvados are way overrated and suck compared to decent goblins (because of Goblin Song), but at least JJ comes for free I think.

Romaria seems obvious due to triple fireball, and so does Gil, once you can get him. Those two and Ganz could be your final party. Until you get Ganz, I assume you'd just use some guy you get for free. Or maybe while you're recruiting Romaria presplit, there's someone else you can get in Forest Metropolis real easy.

Google is down for me right now, and this is probably good info to have here anyway, but could you summarize what the runner does in those reports you have linked? That way I wouldn't have to talk out of my ass when someone else has already done most of the legwork.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-11-20 12:00:15 am

2006-11-09 03:23:59 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

I've semi-forgotten since I haven't looked in a month and a half and have been spending most of my time between VP2 and Okami and FF12.

I thought the report used Alba to steal from the Dagol Tortoise for some reason (uhh yeah that'd be a pain in the ass for SS, he just kills it), but it's just does a lot more damage per attack than most people early in the game...which I also knew.

Okay so the google translation is really lousy. Raise your hand if you're surprised. It looks like he gets the Feather Earring and "Leprosy Cone" (edit: this is the "Leprechaun" accessory O_O...he sells it) before the Crocogator mission, so go you! (I didn't do this =/ I was sorta planning to go grab the Earring right after getting Alba and Aidan)

Then he buys 40 Flee Balls and the book that gives the command to increase attack power. He fights the tree encounters specifically (which is smart because they're easier than the skull lizards and give more exp than any of the other fights on the way there) and he tries to stop apparently when he's close enough to gain the level from the crocogator (980).

I don't know what "savauivua" is (oh, okay, "Survivor" and it's evidently the weapon shop in the Vancoor area)...but he says to buy it when you get back from the mission and use it when fighting Alba (along with Power Injection, there we go!). Aidan is NOT recruited according to this... I'm going to assume "romario" is Romaria and that he recruits her next. Then it looks like he does the weapon shop quest. O_O And then Beasts by the Bridge (I guess this means you don't have to do Smilodon Fangs Smiley

). Then he sleeps and the Mad Ms. Sheila event happens. He buys a few Herb Extract S's, a couple Moonstones (of what level?), 20 more Flee Balls, and 15 "Swage." Then there's Princess Guard...

I was ignoring all this stuff about "cosmopolitan" because I didn't understand. But it's obvious now...it's Cosmo. He's incredibly easy to recruit, but I always thought he sucked =/ Low damage.

All right, that's going to be all I can do at the moment.

I've semi-forgotten since I haven't looked in a month and a half and have been spending most of my time between VP2 and Okami and FF12.

I thought the report used Alba to steal from the Dagol Tortoise for some reason (uhh yeah that'd be a pain in the ass for SS, he just kills it), but it's just does a lot more damage per attack than most people early in the game...which I also knew.

Okay so the google translation is really lousy.  Raise your hand if you're surprised.  It looks like he gets the Feather Earring and "Leprosy Cone" (edit: this is the "Leprechaun" accessory O_O...he sells it) before the Crocogator mission, so go you!  (I didn't do this =/ I was sorta planning to go grab the Earring right after getting Alba and Aidan)

Then he buys 40 Flee Balls and the book that gives the command to increase attack power.  He fights the tree encounters specifically (which is smart because they're easier than the skull lizards and give more exp than any of the other fights on the way there) and he tries to stop apparently when he's close enough to gain the level from the crocogator (980).

I don't know what "savauivua" is (oh, okay, "Survivor" and it's evidently the weapon shop in the Vancoor area)...but he says to buy it when you get back from the mission and use it when fighting Alba (along with Power Injection, there we go!).  Aidan is NOT recruited according to this...  I'm going to assume "romario" is Romaria and that he recruits her next.  Then it looks like he does the weapon shop quest. O_O  And then Beasts by the Bridge (I guess this means you don't have to do Smilodon Fangs :) ).  Then he sleeps and the Mad Ms. Sheila event happens.  He buys a few Herb Extract S's, a couple Moonstones (of what level?), 20 more Flee Balls, and 15 "Swage."  Then there's Princess Guard...

I was ignoring all this stuff about "cosmopolitan" because I didn't understand.  But it's obvious now...it's Cosmo.  He's incredibly easy to recruit, but I always thought he sucked =/  Low damage.

All right, that's going to be all I can do at the moment.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2007-03-02 06:47:41 pm

2006-11-13 05:44:53 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Okay.

Trigger for the Ms. Sheila event: finish off one of the fighting Guild tasks (I think the weapon one won't trigger it) and return to Jack's house. edit: it does, but it depends on when you enter and who really cares anyway haha

Trigger for Princess Guard: finish two Guild tasks (I was trying to understand why he did "A Masterpiece of Fantasy" because it's rather long...but it is shorter than Smilodon Fangs, the rats one, and probably even Beasts by the Bridge) and talk to Thanos.

Trap Octopus: I tried running from all battles; the octopus tore me up horribly and took ~22 minutes to defeat with poison. Checking the guide, he says to not run from encounters that aren't ants in Septem Cave...so I'm forever behind (50 minutes I think at this point). Oh well. I'll probably try the Octopus again tomorrow though.

"Swage" is Sage (hahaha). Thanks Molotov. And I hate Radiata city. Sad

Sort of, anyway.

Last for tonight, I don't think I've mentioned this anywhere-I'm pretty sure (especially after the octopus, since he only gained two levels from it even with nobody else alive and being underleveled) that having dead/fewer party members doesn't increase the experience that Jack receives at the end of battles. Oh and Aidan sucks of course, but I'm not at all impressed with Cosmo either. =/ Though I think you probably have to keep him alive if you want to benefit from the Training Device.

Okay.

Trigger for the Ms. Sheila event: finish off one of the fighting Guild tasks (I think the weapon one won't trigger it) and return to Jack's house. [b]edit: it does, but it depends on when you enter and who really cares anyway haha[/b]

Trigger for Princess Guard: finish two Guild tasks (I was trying to understand why he did "A Masterpiece of Fantasy" because it's rather long...but it is shorter than Smilodon Fangs, the rats one, and probably even Beasts by the Bridge) and talk to Thanos.

Trap Octopus: I tried running from all battles; the octopus tore me up horribly and took ~22 minutes to defeat with poison.  Checking the guide, he says to not run from encounters that aren't ants in Septem Cave...so I'm forever behind (50 minutes I think at this point).  Oh well.  I'll probably try the Octopus again tomorrow though.

"Swage" is Sage (hahaha).  Thanks Molotov.  And I hate Radiata city. :(  Sort of, anyway.

Last for tonight, I don't think I've mentioned this anywhere-I'm pretty sure (especially after the octopus, since he only gained two levels from it even with nobody else alive and being underleveled) that having dead/fewer party members doesn't increase the experience that Jack receives at the end of battles.  Oh and Aidan sucks of course, but I'm not at all impressed with Cosmo either. =/  Though I think you probably have to keep him alive if you want to benefit from the Training Device.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2007-03-02 06:48:24 pm

2006-11-15 03:15:46 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Okay, so I tried fighting battles in Septem Cave. The results?

My save was 20 seconds faster.

But wait, there's more! I went to Forest Metropolis and bought Herb Extract S's from Marsha (her pharmacy opens earlier than Freja's). And while I was in the cave I paused for a long time (5-9 minutes). So...it's a lot faster. Or at least I think I tested using Start during the game, and it didn't stop the game clock.

I forgot to pick up the 10k dagols from Thanos, oops. Or is it one of those things where you don't get paid anyway because something about the quest sucks? Oh well, I can make it without that money, probably. edit:yeah it is.

So I've reached Natalie and Leonard. This fight sucks. Sad

Natalie hurts like hell, and doesn't take much damage. Oh and I haven't been able to poison them. The thing hits and does 1 damage, and then nothing else happens. Maybe if I freeze them it'll work...

FWIW, Dragon Quarter was not what I was thinking of at all and in fact I thought I was pretty good. =/

Okay, so I tried fighting battles in Septem Cave.  The results?

My save was 20 seconds faster.

But wait, there's more!  I went to Forest Metropolis and bought Herb Extract S's from Marsha (her pharmacy opens earlier than Freja's).  And while I was in the cave I paused for a long time (5-9 minutes).  So...it's a lot faster.  Or at least I think I tested using Start during the game, and it didn't stop the game clock.

I forgot to pick up the 10k dagols from Thanos, oops.  Or is it one of those things where you don't get paid anyway because something about the quest sucks?  Oh well, I can make it without that money, probably.  edit:yeah it is.

So I've reached Natalie and Leonard.  This fight sucks. :(  Natalie hurts like hell, and doesn't take much damage.  Oh and I haven't been able to poison them.  The thing hits and does 1 damage, and then nothing else happens.  Maybe if I freeze them it'll work...

FWIW, Dragon Quarter was [i]not[/i] what I was thinking of at all and in fact I thought I was pretty good. =/

spineshark

2006-11-24 04:16:15 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

I still haven't gotten past this fight. Even when Natalie doesn't kill me before she uses her volty...well, she uses her volty, which does 600ish damage (to Jack's 400 hp).

I asked Molotov if he could help make any sense out of the few sentences describing this fight. He couldn't, but something he said made me think about other status effects. Freeze works, of course, as I see most times when I fight this battle. Stone, though, is where I'm going with this. The sword that drops from the sewer monster has this effect, and I used it on my first time through the game. So I know it can trigger on Natalie. And you can buy Cement Powder, which of course inflicts this status (though, admittedly, the game might prevent this too). I don't think I can get any though, unless Marsha sells it (in which case I'll have to lose about 15 minutes for her to open shop probably, not that I haven't already lost a ton of time). So I think that petrifying her is what has to happen, since poison doesn't work (I've tried well over 50 times, and if it was some low-probability thing you wouldn't want it 3 hours into an SS...wonder if it's a version difference) and it's got to be faster than waiting for her to give an opening (plus it should prohibit use of her Volty).

I still haven't gotten past this fight.  Even when Natalie doesn't kill me before she uses her volty...well, she uses her volty, which does 600ish damage (to Jack's 400 hp).

I asked Molotov if he could help make any sense out of the few sentences describing this fight.  He couldn't, but something he said made me think about other status effects. Freeze works, of course, as I see most times when I fight this battle.  Stone, though, is where I'm going with this.  The sword that drops from the sewer monster has this effect, and I used it on my first time through the game.  So I know it can trigger on Natalie.  And you can buy Cement Powder, which of course inflicts this status (though, admittedly, the game [i]might[/i] prevent this too).  I don't think I can get any though, unless Marsha sells it (in which case I'll have to lose about 15 minutes for her to open shop probably, not that I haven't already lost a ton of time).  So I think that petrifying her is what has to happen, since poison doesn't work (I've tried well over 50 times, and if it was some low-probability thing you wouldn't want it 3 hours into an SS...wonder if it's a version difference) and it's got to be faster than waiting for her to give an opening (plus it should prohibit use of her Volty).

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-11-26 05:02:31 am

2006-11-26 04:53:21 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Okay, so poison powder misses very often if you are locked onto your target. This is evidently the major problem with using it. It's not perfect even otherwise, but at least it doesn't always fail. I got Natalie poisoned then danced around Leonard, freezing him and stabbing him a lot. Then I switched onto the Heat Saber, which doesn't inflict any status that overrides poison, and carefully beat Natalie around a bit.

The next fight isn't too tough, but it's important to not die. Obviously. Square link is hella annoying though.

Gawain is easy, poison hits him hard. Then you just have to dance around him, because he hits you hard too. =/

Algandars Castle isn't very difficult either. however...I have no idea what this sentence refers to. "Return defeating horseman soldier. Level of the jack is increased up to 29." Okay so obviously this is after defeating the boss there, but I have no idea what this is...something that will give four quick levels? Sad

I don't know if I can pull off the next fight without Gil, which is why I'm wondering. Quite simply, we get mobbed (Romaria, Jack...and Franz =/ [he's not any good, he's just right there]), and Gil's high health and damage would probably right things. From there it's just a couple easy fights with Cross, and then figuring out what I need to do to defeat Aphelion in less than 45 minutes.

EDIT: Something else I oddly figured out is, apparently you want to go to Shangri-La before Algandar's Castle. I went there after it (you know, when they tell you to), and instead of selling me stuff, the shopkeeper asked for 50 panic powder :(. Also you avoid fighting the Goblin Trio this way. I think the time is made up for, because I also ran out of flee balls last time I tried to get to the Fire mountain.

Okay, so poison powder misses very often if you are locked onto your target.  This is evidently the major problem with using it.  It's not perfect even otherwise, but at least it doesn't always fail.  I got Natalie poisoned then danced around Leonard, freezing him and stabbing him a lot.  Then I switched onto the Heat Saber, which doesn't inflict any status that overrides poison, and carefully beat Natalie around a bit.

The next fight isn't too tough, but it's important to not die.  Obviously.  Square link is hella annoying though.

Gawain is easy, poison hits him hard.  Then you just have to dance around him, because he hits you hard too. =/

Algandars Castle isn't very difficult either.  [i]however[/i]...I have no idea what this sentence refers to. "Return defeating horseman soldier. Level of the jack is increased up to 29."  Okay so obviously this is after defeating the boss there, but I have no idea what this is...something that will give four quick levels? :(

I don't know if I can pull off the next fight without Gil, which is why I'm wondering.  Quite simply, we get mobbed (Romaria, Jack...and Franz =/ [he's not any good, he's just [i]right there[/i]]), and Gil's high health and damage would probably right things.  From there it's just a couple easy fights with Cross, and then figuring out what I need to do to defeat Aphelion in less than 45 minutes.

EDIT:  Something else I oddly figured out is, apparently you want to go to Shangri-La before Algandar's Castle.  I went there after it (you know, when they tell you to), and instead of selling me stuff, the shopkeeper asked for 50 panic powder :(.  Also you avoid fighting the Goblin Trio this way.  I think the time is made up for, because I also ran out of flee balls last time I tried to get to the Fire mountain.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-11-28 04:05:31 am

2006-11-27 05:28:31 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

FINAL SAVE: 6:21.13

this puts me the duration of the Aphelion battle +57 minutes behind the Japanese run. Not too bad, especially because I did a bit of pausing later on unavoidably (without going back and doing stuff again, which I wasn't in the mood to do tonight).

I decided "horseman" was just "knights" which sort of fits with something I decided a long time ago (I think when I was reading the reports the first time) regarding the google translation. That's a lot of fights. Sad

But they do help.

I botched the Gil fight, as I was too aggressive, but pulled it off cleanly the second time. =/

Fire mountain went perfectly, until Cross used Celestial Line. Sad

Oh well.

I prevented him from using it in the next fight. My strategy works, yay.

Except maybe not, because in the other fight the link broke too early. I escaped it both times by running the heck away (I'm 99% sure now that he targets whoever's closest), but...wasted time, particularly on the second one.

And in City of White Nights I encroached too close on a sandtrap (at the top) and fell a long ways. Then I took a fake ladder. 2 minutes or so. =/ FWIW I also grabbed the Falvern since its volty shreds Aphelion later when he starts using that slow Lightning move. It might not actually save that amount of time though...

And Aphelion is sorta hard. Well, I died, anyway, but whatever. I don't think linking helps, since it's sorta wonky and you can't use Power Injection or healing items. But I should practice using it to forcibly dodge attacks against party members (particularly the black wings).

FINAL SAVE: 6:21.13

this puts me the duration of the Aphelion battle +57 minutes behind the Japanese run.  Not too bad, especially because I did a bit of pausing later on unavoidably (without going back and doing stuff again, which I wasn't in the mood to do tonight).

I decided "horseman" was just "knights" which sort of fits with something I decided a long time ago (I think when I was reading the reports the first time) regarding the google translation.  That's a lot of fights. :(  But they do help.

I botched the Gil fight, as I was too aggressive, but pulled it off cleanly the second time. =/

Fire mountain went perfectly, until Cross used Celestial Line. :(  Oh well.

I prevented him from using it in the next fight.  My strategy works, yay.

Except maybe not, because in the other fight the link broke too early.  I escaped it both times by running the heck away (I'm 99% sure now that he targets whoever's closest), but...wasted time, particularly on the second one.

And in City of White Nights I encroached too close on a sandtrap (at the top) and fell a long ways.  Then I took a fake ladder.  2 minutes or so. =/  FWIW I also grabbed the Falvern since its volty shreds Aphelion later when he starts using that slow Lightning move.  It might not actually save that amount of time though...

And Aphelion is sorta hard.  Well, I died, anyway, but whatever.  I don't think linking helps, since it's sorta wonky and you can't use Power Injection or healing items. But I should practice using it to forcibly dodge attacks against party members (particularly the black wings).

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-11-30 05:38:34 am

2006-11-28 05:35:41 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Okay, I finished the game. The final battle and stuff took me a long time (35 minutes) but I think I paused for a lot of that (10 minutes maybe, but I may be making that up-I did this for three and a half freaking hours, give me a break). Anyway I'm going to try for sub-6 after the credits next time and see where that takes me. It sounds vaguely possible...

Anyway next time I need more Celestial Nectars and fewer Herb DX's (Gil is the only one worth using them on, really, since Ganz is worthless and Romaria and Jack don't have much health) For every three DX's I replace with S' that's 1 more Nectar or so, so...

Oh and the Falvern isn't worth it (even though the fight for it also gives a level to everybody haha). It's nice to see a bunch of 70's on the screen, but it really doesn't save much time since it attacks normally so darn slow and building up Volty at the end is hard enough as it is [when everybody else is dead]. By the way, if anybody can check the approximate health when the field turns purple... (I don't have any analysis balls)

hint: by "anybody" I mean you, Enhasa. Tongue

Or rock, if you're still reading this. Undoubtedly there will be excuses, and I will have to check myself. Which isn't such a bad idea. I just want to go thanking people though, you know. *smiley barrage not included*

I guess it's about 6000 HP (or less), which is what I thought...and wanted.

Okay, I finished the game.  The final battle and stuff took me a long time (35 minutes) but I think I paused for a lot of that (10 minutes maybe, but I may be making that up-I did this for three and a half freaking hours, give me a break).  Anyway I'm going to try for sub-6 [i]after the credits[/i] next time and see where that takes me. It sounds vaguely possible...

Anyway next time I need more Celestial Nectars and fewer Herb DX's (Gil is the only one worth using them on, really, since Ganz is worthless and Romaria and Jack don't have much health)  For every three DX's I replace with S' that's 1 more Nectar or so, so...

Oh and the Falvern isn't worth it (even though the fight for it also gives a level to everybody haha).  It's nice to see a bunch of 70's on the screen, but it really doesn't save much time since it attacks normally so darn slow and building up Volty at the end is hard enough as it is [when everybody else is dead].  By the way, if anybody can check the approximate health when the field turns purple... (I don't have any analysis balls)

hint: by "anybody" I mean you, Enhasa. :P  Or rock, if you're still reading this.  Undoubtedly there will be excuses, and I will have to check myself.  Which isn't such a bad idea.  I just want to go thanking people though, you know. *smiley barrage not included*

I guess it's about 6000 HP (or less), which is what I thought...and wanted.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-12-01 05:14:05 am

2006-12-01 12:36:05 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Ouch. Freaking crush my pride...

I started another practice run last night; it didn't go so well. I used my first save after returning from the Earth Valley mission...and it was four minutes slower than my segmented time (44 instead of 40-I'd attribute all of it and more to the four encounters I failed to dodge). I think this means that he went crazy on the first part of the game...

But beyond that, well, this really sucks. =/ I guess I'm back to debating which is better for this run. so (bold indicates the best argument to me):

SS-
Pros:
I'd rather do it this way (saves many kinds of hassle over segmented)
No luck manipulation
Less irritating "down the line" planning (you know, "buy XX toadstool powders, that's how many you'll need)
Less insistence on "perfection" and luck manipulation (it's been pointed out to me that I still need a good first hour though...)

Segmented-
Pros:
Faster time overall/better optimization
Looks better (all unnecessary encounters avoided, nothing stupid like what happened when I was powerleveling to 29 last time [basically I was about 300 from gaining that level and had to walk around for a whole minute to find one more fight])
Can do human path (segmented too of course) without having to do the beginning again
Can guarantee 10,000 dagol reward from Anastasia (this'll suck to do though, but surely be worth it. [assuming the following is not way more true than I can imagine] I'm not sure if it's true though, I always get 100 dagols Sad

)
Don't need to worry about running out of money (a problem I always have with this game, especially when running)
Can start recording sooner and more often
No losing 6 hours if I fuck up on the final boss

Most of the cons are inverses of the positives for the other kind, so...

Ouch.  Freaking crush my pride...

I started another practice run last night; it didn't go so well.  I used my first save after returning from the Earth Valley mission...and it was four minutes slower than my segmented time (44 instead of 40-I'd attribute all of it and more to the four encounters I failed to dodge).  I think this means that he went crazy on the first part of the game...

But beyond that, well, this really sucks. =/  I guess I'm back to debating which is better for this run.  [i]so[/i] (bold indicates the best argument to me):

SS-
Pros:
[b]I'd rather do it this way (saves many kinds of hassle over segmented)[/b]
No luck manipulation
Less irritating "down the line" planning (you know, "buy XX toadstool powders, that's how many you'll need)
Less insistence on "perfection" and luck manipulation (it's been pointed out to me that I still need a good first hour though...)

Segmented-
Pros:
Faster time overall/better optimization
Looks better (all unnecessary encounters avoided, nothing stupid like what happened when I was powerleveling to 29 last time [basically I was about 300 from gaining that level and had to walk around for a whole minute to find one more fight])
[b]Can do human path (segmented too of course) without having to do the beginning again[/b]
Can guarantee 10,000 dagol reward from Anastasia (this'll suck to do though, but surely be worth it. [assuming the following is not way more true than I can imagine]  I'm not sure if it's true though, I [i]always[/i] get 100 dagols :( )
Don't need to worry about running out of money (a problem I always have with this game, especially when running)
Can start recording sooner and more often
No losing 6 hours if I fuck up on the final boss

Most of the cons are inverses of the positives for the other kind, so...

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-12-11 03:50:58 am

2006-12-03 03:48:25 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

With Molotov's help, I've found the locations of a few flee balls which can be obtained as one walks on the overworld. (I could have done this myself, but it's easier when somebody else already has Wink

) I started a new practice run, playing until after the first knights mission without saving. When I finally did save, the time was below 0:39. And yes, I managed to dodge every encounter...somehow (it helped that there was no sloth, for sure). The next portion is also quite difficult though, but after that, I'll be buying Flee Balls and I won't have so much to worry about.

Despite the fact that I don't think my skills are [so] lacking anymore, segmented is looking very appealing, especially for the "do the beginning only once" factor. After the beginning, there are a lot fewer problems with difficult to avoid encounters.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-12-12 03:30:27 pm

2006-12-12 03:26:18 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Molotov is the only one who asks Tongue

but this run is basically dead for a few weeks. I have too much homework and finals preparation, and when my siblings come into town...I've been thinking about it quite a bit still.

I'm basically decided on segmented at this point. This means dodging every encounter I don't want/have to fight (so, every encounter except when helping Donovitch [or is it Gonovitch? bah], the Septem Cave, and those soldiers while I'm out for Algandars Castle), and getting really good boss fights. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what a "really good" boss fight is. Molotov advised against this, and while he doesn't actually know what he's talking about, his input is still worthwhile, but I was thinking of just repeating the boss fight portions over and over until I get ones that I'm pleased with. The frustrating part would be getting this all on tape...

Also, if I do it right I won't need Flee Balls and I can avoid using any healing items except on Aphelion. I'm wondering though what I should buy and how I should get the money for it (hopefully this doesn't involve manipulating Anastasia by starting New Games six or so segments into the run). I'm thinking mostly Herb Extract S's with some Celestial Nectars, especially since Ganz is the only one with all that much HP and he's basically useless. Sad

Oh! I actually need help with this...can somebody find out which animation takes longer? Wild Pitch or Ganz Breaker...I'm thinking of trying to get Ridley (or Ganz, if it's better that way) to Volty one of the goblins at the beginning of the battle, to break the link and also just finish one right off. At level 4 she did 192 damage last time I tried, which I'm certain would do it even if the goblin was at full health...

Molotov is the only one who asks :P but this run is basically dead for a few weeks.  I have too much homework and finals preparation, and when my siblings come into town...I've been thinking about it quite a bit still.

I'm basically decided on segmented at this point.  This means dodging every encounter I don't want/have to fight (so, every encounter except when helping Donovitch [or is it Gonovitch?  bah], the Septem Cave, and those soldiers while I'm out for Algandars Castle), and getting really good boss fights.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure what a "really good" boss fight is.  Molotov advised against this, and while he doesn't actually know what he's talking about, his input is still worthwhile, but I was thinking of just repeating the boss fight portions over and over until I get ones that I'm pleased with.  The frustrating part would be getting this all on tape...

Also, if I do it right I won't need Flee Balls and I can avoid using any healing items except on Aphelion.  I'm wondering though what I should buy and how I should get the money for it (hopefully this doesn't involve manipulating Anastasia by starting New Games six or so segments into the run).  I'm thinking mostly Herb Extract S's with some Celestial Nectars, especially since Ganz is the only one with all that much HP and he's basically useless. :(

Oh!  I actually need help with this...can somebody find out which animation takes longer?  Wild Pitch or Ganz Breaker...I'm thinking of trying to get Ridley (or Ganz, if it's better that way) to Volty one of the goblins at the beginning of the battle, to break the link and also just finish one right off.  At level 4 she did 192 damage last time I tried, which I'm certain would do it even if the goblin was at full health...

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2006-12-31 11:13:56 am

2006-12-31 06:39:47 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

The beginning of Genius' mission sucks. It's such a pain, and since this isn't the real run, I accepted a somewhat lousy second half. I only had one Flee Ball, which meant I ended up fighting a wolf and a buffalo while walking from the little village there to Forest Metropolis, but I escaped the second buffalo and dodged the third one in a row. oh my god, I didn't remember anything like that. Plus I messed up at the very end before I could save, but I got a halfway successful segment so I'm sticking with it for the practice run. I'm basically on the level with the Japanese guy's single segment, except his was...a single segment. I'm going to dupe a save before the Crocogator mission, to make future practice runs less frustrating...though for the real deal, I'll still have to get a good segment 4. Sad

Oh, but I did get some practice for dodging individual encounters. If they're too close to each other, there's a problem though...

couple follow-ups from earlier: "horsemen" does indeed mean "knights"-the human side is in fact labeled as "'horsemen' compilation" or something involving that word. And Cosmo may suck ordinarily but he attacks fast meaning with Power Injection he would be sorta crazy. But I don't think he's worth more than the Training Device...maybe I'll try Romaria/Aidan/Cosmo on Trap Octopus next time...this'd even mean I could skip Alba, who takes longer to recruit than any of the other three (especially the ones who aren't Romaria) since I don't think getting steals is much worth it either.

The beginning of Genius' mission sucks.  It's such a pain, and since this isn't the real run, I accepted a somewhat lousy second half.  I only had one Flee Ball, which meant I ended up fighting a wolf and a buffalo while walking from the little village there to Forest Metropolis, but I escaped the second buffalo and dodged the third one in a row.  [i]oh my god[/i], I didn't remember anything like that.  Plus I messed up at the very end before I could save, but I got a halfway successful segment so I'm sticking with it for the practice run.  I'm basically on the level with the Japanese guy's single segment, except his was...a single segment.  I'm going to dupe a save before the Crocogator mission, to make future practice runs less frustrating...though for the real deal, I'll still have to get a good segment 4. :(

Oh, but I did get some practice for dodging individual encounters.  If they're too close to each other, there's a problem though...

couple follow-ups from earlier: "horsemen" does indeed mean "knights"-the human side is in fact labeled as "'horsemen' compilation" or something involving that word.  And Cosmo may suck ordinarily but he attacks fast meaning with Power Injection he would be sorta crazy.  But I don't think he's worth more than the Training Device...maybe I'll try Romaria/Aidan/Cosmo on Trap Octopus next time...this'd even mean I could skip Alba, who takes longer to recruit than any of the other three (especially the ones who aren't Romaria) since I don't think getting steals is much worth it either.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2007-01-14 01:22:44 am

2007-01-13 06:23:38 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Bit of progress tonight.

Finished the crocogator mission in 13 minutes and some. Less than 11 should be possible, since I was messing around with a couple things. I bought the Book of Spirit, which is too early since you can't tell Jarvis what to do. I also checked most of the rocks-there's nothing useful since I'm dodging or fighting everything anyway. Aside from getting the Feather Earring in the previous segment (which was less painful than I expected) the major improvement from the previous practice run was buying the Steel Sword from the Survivor Armory instead of the Heat Saber. Doesn't do much against the skull monsters (stupid high armor punks) but adds a ton of damage (about 50%) against crocogator and the Trees. One volty kills practically any enemy except for the aforementioned enemies and a few hits from Jarvis in there softens them up quick. It's pretty hilarious to see Crocogator hit the deck in what must be less than a minute after all the work he was my first time through.

So, improvements are, don't kick stuff, don't fight skull lizards, wait to buy Power Injection, and stay lucky. For the next part, I need to figure out where Cosmo is when you get back from the mission. Though, I should get Power Injection before I go after Romaria (but I'll have plenty of money this time). Whatever Anastasia gives me on the real run is fine (on this practice run I got 100 dagols again), and if it isn't, I'll make it fine. I don't need to buy Flee Balls, especially after finishing the crocogator mission (the second to last part where encounters are hard to dodge besides when you're going with Ridley to City of Flowers), and I shouldn't have much trouble with healing items until I go on the shopping spree at the end.

Also, has anybody taken Daniel into a battle against a crocogator? Will he obey or does he stay out of the fight like he says he will? Obviously doesn't pertain to the run at all, I'm just curious.

Not that anybody is going to reply, or uses Daniel. Tongue

Bit of progress tonight.

Finished the crocogator mission in 13 minutes and some. Less than 11 should be possible, since I was messing around with a couple things.  I bought the Book of Spirit, which is too early since you can't tell Jarvis what to do.  I also checked most of the rocks-there's nothing useful since I'm dodging or fighting everything anyway.  Aside from getting the Feather Earring in the previous segment (which was less painful than I expected) the major improvement from the previous practice run was buying the Steel Sword from the Survivor Armory instead of the Heat Saber.  Doesn't do much against the skull monsters (stupid high armor punks) but adds a ton of damage (about 50%) against crocogator and the Trees.  One volty kills practically any enemy except for the aforementioned enemies and a few hits from Jarvis in there softens them up quick.  It's pretty hilarious to see Crocogator hit the deck in what must be less than a minute after all the work he was my first time through.

So, improvements are, don't kick stuff, don't fight skull lizards, wait to buy Power Injection, and stay lucky.  For the next part, I need to figure out where Cosmo is when you get back from the mission.  Though, I should get Power Injection before I go after Romaria (but I'll have plenty of money this time).  Whatever Anastasia gives me on the real run is fine (on this practice run I got 100 dagols again), and if it isn't, I'll make it fine.  I don't need to buy Flee Balls, [i]especially[/i] after finishing the crocogator mission (the second to last part where encounters are hard to dodge besides when you're going with Ridley to City of Flowers), and I shouldn't have much trouble with healing items until I go on the shopping spree at the end.

Also, has anybody taken Daniel into a battle against a crocogator?  Will he obey or does he stay out of the fight like he says he will?  Obviously doesn't pertain to the run at all, I'm just curious.

Not that anybody is going to reply, or uses Daniel. :P

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2007-01-17 08:15:23 am

2007-01-17 05:38:37 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Four more runs through this segment, I haven't actually pulled it off very well. My most recent attempt, I thought I'd completed the mission too well and went ahead and fought a few more enemies to reach level 11. As it turns out, Cosmo and Romaria are level 15, so I need only reach level 10 to recruit them. Now Alba seems like a pretty notable waste of time, and with the Book of Spirit Cosmo should be the best character available for Trap Octopus. I'll of course check...sort of (it's possible his damage won't skyrocket to the extent I expect it will, but it seems to give a solid 20ish to all hits, and since Cosmo hits a lot...). I've managed to dodge any given encounter on the path somewhat consistently except a spider at the Nowem bridge and a newt thing at the City of Flowers, I'll probably grab the Flee ball on the path as insurance for the latter since it takes a long time to defeat and isn't worth the exp. Then just make it through, dodging everything except trees and the spider (not that I'd complain if I did), finish Crocogator off, and save. Err, sleep maybe. I'll have to see. Anyway I'm planning for this to be the last time I do this segment before the recorded run since it's the last major part of the game that totally drives me insane.

If only all this were that easy...

edit: let nobody take this as anything more than a hypothetical (haha) but I was having a little discussion about 100% with Molotov (mostly it was started from talking about chrono cross). Specifically how it'd be categorized. Obviously you can't get 100% friends without using New Game +, though the split in the game is so clear that you could arguably have two 100% runs, one on each side. In other words, the options I can think of are:
have two runs categorized as 100%: one where Fairy path is selected, all characters are recruited which are affiliated with that side, and Valkyrie(/Iseria/Quasar?) are defeated. One where Human path is selected, all human recruits are earned and Valkyrie(/Iseria/Quasar?) are defeated.

have one run that's 100%: play through the game as one side (I'd lean fairy actually), recruiting all characters for that side (and finishing postgame to whatever extent is deemed necessary heh) then using Strong From Start to play through the other side with all recruits (really fast!).

Four more runs through this segment, I haven't actually pulled it off very well.  My most recent attempt, I thought I'd completed the mission [i]too[/i] well and went ahead and fought a few more enemies to reach level 11.  As it turns out, Cosmo and Romaria are level 15, so I need only reach level 10 to recruit them.  Now Alba seems like a pretty notable waste of time, and with the Book of Spirit Cosmo should be the best character available for Trap Octopus.  I'll of course check...sort of (it's possible his damage won't skyrocket to the extent I expect it will, but it seems to give a solid 20ish to all hits, and since Cosmo hits a lot...).  I've managed to dodge any given encounter on the path somewhat consistently except a spider at the Nowem bridge and a newt thing at the City of Flowers, I'll probably grab the Flee ball on the path as insurance for the latter since it takes a long time to defeat and isn't worth the exp.  Then just make it through, dodging everything except trees and the spider (not that I'd complain if I did), finish Crocogator off, and save.  Err, sleep maybe.  I'll have to see.  Anyway I'm planning for this to be the last time I do this segment before the recorded run since it's the last major part of the game that totally drives me insane.

If only all this were that easy...

edit: let [i]nobody[/i] take this as anything more than a hypothetical (haha) but I was having a little discussion about 100% with Molotov (mostly it was started from talking about chrono cross).  Specifically how it'd be categorized.  Obviously you can't get 100% friends without using New Game +, though the split in the game is so clear that you could arguably have [i]two[/i] 100% runs, one on each side.  In other words, the options I can think of are:
have two runs categorized as 100%: one where Fairy path is selected, all characters are recruited which are affiliated with that side, and Valkyrie(/Iseria/Quasar?) are defeated.  One where Human path is selected, all human recruits are earned and Valkyrie(/Iseria/Quasar?) are defeated.

have one run that's 100%: play through the game as one side (I'd lean fairy actually), recruiting all characters for that side (and finishing postgame to whatever extent is deemed necessary heh) then using Strong From Start to play through the other side with all recruits (really fast!).