Question for future GDQs: Should we ditch Game Boy Player software in favour of Game Boy Interface?

2016-07-19 01:02:57 pm

DS Dictator

I was going to post this on Sunday 24th to post 'criticism related' stuff 2 weeks after the end of SGDQ but I'll be in Sweden for ESA by then.
The alternate software for playing Gameboy BW, Color and Advance games on a Gamecube is getting better features lately including the support of GBA to GC adapters.

I've added a hidden tab on what it is in more detail but it might be something to consider for future GDQs.
We are using unofficial software to record DS/3DS games so why not use unofficial software to run Gameboy cartridges at non-blurry 240p?
I've attached some images, a YT video and a few downloadable videos that were recorded from my modified HDMI output system, so it upscales it to 480p but much cleaner than the official Gameboy Player software.

Because external HDMI addons from Badassconsoles is very likely to happen to be just before or after AGDQ 2017, if you do use this software, go for Low Latency version for now because it does not require the overpriced Component cables.

http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2782

What is Gameboy Interface:

It is a homebrew software program for the Nintendo Gamecube, it requires using the Gameboy Player's hardware to play physical cartridges but the homebrew software itself runs much more accurate than the official software and the video output uses a much cleaner native resolution of 240p.
Gameboy pixels never looked so good outside of Super Gameboy 2. This is the best way to get a decent video output for Game Boy Colour games as there are substitutes for the other 2 series.
Gameboy B&W's case is the Super Game Boy 2 and Gameboy Advance is using the Nintendo DS phat + Capture card combo.

240p Gameboy Interface visual latency test. GB interface Ultra Low Latency mode, CRT requires RGB (PAL only consoles) or Component (for NTSC consoles), otherwise use Low Latency which supports composite/S-video.
The HD Monitor to the right is coming from my HDMI modified output that automatically upscales 240p to 480p, and the delay between the 2 screens is nearly non-existent.

Thread title:

I was going to post this on Sunday 24th to post 'criticism related' stuff 2 weeks after the end of SGDQ but I'll be in Sweden for ESA by then.
The alternate software for playing Gameboy BW, Color and Advance games on a Gamecube is getting better features lately including the support of GBA to GC adapters.

I've added a hidden tab on what it is in more detail but it might be something to consider for future GDQs.
We are using unofficial software to record DS/3DS games so why not use unofficial software to run Gameboy cartridges at non-blurry 240p?
I've attached some images, a YT video and a few downloadable videos that were recorded from my modified HDMI output system, so it upscales it to 480p but much cleaner than the official Gameboy Player software.

Because external HDMI addons from Badassconsoles is very likely to happen to be just before or after AGDQ 2017, if you do use this software, go for Low Latency version for now because it does not require the overpriced Component cables.

http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2782

[hidden][u]What is Gameboy Interface:[/u]

It is a homebrew software program for the Nintendo Gamecube, it requires using the Gameboy Player's hardware to play physical cartridges but the homebrew software itself runs much more accurate than the official software and the video output uses a much cleaner native resolution of 240p.
Gameboy pixels never looked so good outside of Super Gameboy 2. This is the best way to get a decent video output for Game Boy Colour games as there are substitutes for the other 2 series.
Gameboy B&W's case is the Super Game Boy 2 and Gameboy Advance is using the Nintendo DS phat + Capture card combo.

240p Gameboy Interface visual latency test. GB interface Ultra Low Latency mode, CRT requires RGB (PAL only consoles) or Component (for NTSC consoles), otherwise use Low Latency which supports composite/S-video. 
The HD Monitor to the right is coming from my HDMI modified output that automatically upscales 240p to 480p, and the delay between the 2 screens is nearly non-existent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YdtKlEt3T8
[/hidden]

Attachments:

GameboyInterfaceMasterRaceGBC.png

GameboyInterfaceMasterrace.png

NavySeaslDespawnbug_HQ.mp4

Terminator2_HQ.mp4

Omnigamer

2016-07-19 01:13:41 pm

All the things

For now all I can say is that we are very much aware of GBI. We're considering a number of tech-related options for future events, and while this is among them, there are a lot of different factors to work through and prioritize for the events.

Cool Matty

2016-07-19 07:08:20 pm

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

One of the other concerns expressed isn't actually video quality, it's the lag. From my understanding, the GBI is lower lag, and runners who are not used to it may be thrown off by the lack of lag suddenly.

Sonikkustar

2016-07-20 07:17:49 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Quote from Cool Matty:

One of the other concerns expressed isn't actually video quality, it's the lag. From my understanding, the GBI is lower lag, and runners who are not used to it may be thrown off by the lack of lag suddenly.

Just exactly how much less lag are we talking about here? Because not having to deal with any display latency actually sounds pretty nice.

TheMG2

2016-07-20 07:23:34 pm

Quote from Sonikkustar:

Quote from Cool Matty:

One of the other concerns expressed isn't actually video quality, it's the lag. From my understanding, the GBI is lower lag, and runners who are not used to it may be thrown off by the lack of lag suddenly.

Just exactly how much less lag are we talking about here? Because not having to deal with any display latency actually sounds pretty nice.

There is like 0 input delay with gameboy interface

Omnigamer

2016-07-20 07:31:44 pm

All the things

Matty's point was related to meeting runner expectations. The problem with input lag in the vast majority of cases is not the fact that it is or is not present, but whether it is what the runner has adapted to. This is why we allow runners to play on an LCD of their choosing if that's their typical setup. Even though a CRT may have less input delay, if the runner's muscle memory is tuned to playing with 1-3 frames of latency then they won't be able to perform optimally. If use of GBI becomes more widespread we will probably provide an ability to play that way, however it is not in our best interest to enforce its use everywhere.

dangodofthunder

2016-07-21 01:01:21 pm

Quote from Omnigamer:

Matty's point was related to meeting runner expectations. The problem with input lag in the vast majority of cases is not the fact that it is or is not present, but whether it is what the runner has adapted to. This is why we allow runners to play on an LCD of their choosing if that's their typical setup. Even though a CRT may have less input delay, if the runner's muscle memory is tuned to playing with 1-3 frames of latency then they won't be able to perform optimally. If use of GBI becomes more widespread we will probably provide an ability to play that way, however it is not in our best interest to enforce its use everywhere.

How difficult or expensive would it be to allow GBI as an option for runners? I admit to having no knowledge of GB speedrunning or even streaming GB content, but I feel like allowing as many viable options for runners as possible is the optimal solution.

honorableJay

2016-07-21 11:31:16 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Quote from dangodofthunder:

How difficult or expensive would it be to allow GBI as an option for runners? I admit to having no knowledge of GB speedrunning or even streaming GB content, but I feel like allowing as many viable options for runners as possible is the optimal solution.

I might be wrong, but that probably falls into the category of, "bring your own equipment." In this case, it would be a GC setup with the GB Interface. Whether or not that would require the tech staff to make any changes I can't say.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2016-07-22 10:35:35 am

2016-07-22 10:35:13 am

<(^_^)>

Quote from honorableJay:

Quote from dangodofthunder:

How difficult or expensive would it be to allow GBI as an option for runners? I admit to having no knowledge of GB speedrunning or even streaming GB content, but I feel like allowing as many viable options for runners as possible is the optimal solution.

I might be wrong, but that probably falls into the category of, "bring your own equipment." In this case, it would be a GC setup with the GB Interface. Whether or not that would require the tech staff to make any changes I can't say.

Pretty sure mickeygnou brought his own equipment with GBI for his zero mission run in SGDQ16. AFAIK there wasn't really any extra setup necessary aside from him bringing his own setup with GBI. I could be remembering wrong though.

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2016-07-24 10:24:17 am

2016-07-22 12:29:23 pm

What's that gemma?

I for one am a fan of using only official hardware and software whenever doing so is reasonable. In this case, my opinion is that the recording quality from the GBP is not so low as to warrant resorting to unofficial software.

TheMG2

2016-07-22 12:53:28 pm

It's not unofficial hardware: 0 hardware modifications are made with gameboy interface. It's basically just an alternative to the gameboy player boot disc.

It's more than just the recording quality, GameBoy Player software causes input delay and framerate issues as well (it runs at a slightly faster framerate than GBA). GameBoy Interface is much better in that regard.

I don't see why using unofficial software for recording is an issue when nintendo clearly doesn't care about making their systems easy to record anyways.

kirbymastah

2016-07-28 11:58:02 am

<(^_^)>

Quote from TheMG2:

I don't see why using unofficial software for recording is an issue when nintendo clearly doesn't care about making their systems easy to record anyways.

rip 3ds and ds Sad

princessproto

2016-08-12 06:47:40 pm

I'm Proto and I play games

Bringing GBi to a run would simply require a loaded memory card and the corresponding boot alternative (i.e. smash melee, wind waker, or whichever game's exploit a runner uses to boot). This equipment could be put on GDQ's provided gameboy players for a runner's run, much like a runner bringing their own Super Game Boy 2.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2016-08-15 07:26:08 am

2016-08-15 07:25:54 am

HELLO!

You don't need an exploit to boot GBi. At least, this worked great for me: http://uk.codejunkies.com/Products/SD-Media-Launcher__EF000580V.aspx

UchihaSasuke

Edit history:

UchihaSasuke: 2016-09-04 10:14:34 pm

UchihaSasuke: 2016-09-04 10:13:56 pm

2016-09-04 10:13:47 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

those are pretty expensive and the US version is no longer in stock.
i got lucky and got one before that but newer runners are out of luck.

also, considering how popular several of the exploited games are, it'd be easier for many to have those games than a SDML.