"quake2" bunnies

2004-03-01 05:49:08 am

just watched Kay's great 100m demo - I was wondering if anyone can tell me a little bit about how these bunnies work. Can you do them and still have air control? Are they just ridiculously difficult? 'cause it seems like if you could implement them into long, bunny-intensive demos then surely Kay will be able to beat runs like e4m7, e3m5, etc...

Thread title:

Martin

2004-03-01 09:35:08 pm

18 views but no answer, until now Smiley

I have no idea about these things, haven't even watched the demo yet. It must be insane!

An improvement to e4m7 would be really cool ideed. Kay? Smiley

Kay

Edit history:

Kay: 2004-03-02 08:45:05 am

2004-03-02 04:20:50 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Bleh =)

It's so god damn hard to explain something like this over the net. It would be alot easier to show you in person, but anyway, I can try to enlighten you.

1. You move the mouse twice as much with Quake2 style, since you always do the "boost"-jump to the same side (this will make dzipped demofiles larger, because you see more of the level/entities/whatnot, I think). Basically you repeat the very first bunnyjump you do in a series, to the same side instead of alternating "boosting" sides. Did anyone understand that? =)

2. In my 100 meter, I always boostjump towards the left (because it suits me better - I can also go towards the right, but not with the same snap in the bunnys). And remember, it's on the "outswing" you gain speed. Thus, dont swing the mouse towards the center when you do the jump (like you can in QW), swing the mouse out from center when you do the jump.

3. I made a small illustration (just a simple drawing) of how the path will look, this may make some of you understand alittle better. Remember, you only touch the ground at the black crosses, and this is where you do 80% of the work.

4. Now for the hard part. Buttons and mousemovement. Oh my...where to start.
A bunny for me would look something like this:

a) Tap +right, hold +forward, hold +left and start swinging the mouse from right to left (I dont always tap +right, but I don't have an explanation of why and when).

b) When I've reached the edge of the mousemovement (going from right to left) I jump. Release +left, release +forward a millisecond after that, and tap +right.

c) Now I've just left the ground. Immediately I press and hold +left, while I move the mouse over to the right (to get ready to do the 2nd bunny).

d) When I'm almost landed again, the mouse should be aligned somewhere around the center of the screen (remember, this goes pretty fast, so you'd never get anywhere trying to measure up where you are, you just develop a feel for the bunnys and know when to do what).

e) The 2nd bunny is abit different than the first, but the rest of the bunnys hereafter are similar, with just a few modifications. Now, where was I? Right...uhm, so we're back to the starting point, except we've picked up some speed (and we're about to touch the ground). In the air you have no resistance, so whatever speed you have when you leave the ground, you keep until you touch a surface that gives you resistance. There's a great article somewhere here on Planetquake that explains the physics of quake. Its a recommended read.

f) Still holding +left I touch the ground, the mouse moves to the left edge (to gain speed), I hit +forward, jump, release +left and release +forward just after (this is the key - these 3 keypresses must be done so carefully, so fast that the keys on the keyboard will almost jump out of their sockets). Try this a while, and you'll develop a feel for how fast you need to do them. Key word here is snappy.

Ok, that should sum it up somewhat. But I bet none of you have understood what I've been trying to tell you =D

I ran this technique for like a week before it was good. Morfans can probably vouch for that since I've sent like 10 demos to him, each alittle faster than the last one.

As you go faster and faster, you'll see what works and what doesn't. Sometimes I forgot myself, and ran shitty times here's a few tips on how to get back on track:

1. Watch your fastest demo, and watch the demos to the fastest guys to see what works. Don't watch just my demo, watch weixing, timo, joszef and the rest (who dont use the quake2 style).

2. Never forget the mouse movement. Sometimes I'd find myself not moving the mouse far enough to the sides, and thus, not getting the speed I wanted. An observation here: I move from side to side without any deviance in pitch, weixing does somekinda circular motion, and timo got this crazy style where he almost looks 90 degrees straight down. What I've found is that it doesn't matter where you are in pitch, only yaw matters - but doing circles like weixing might help you stay in strict form.

3. Remember the snappy button presses/releases, if you do them sloppily, you'll never gain the speed you want.

4. Alternate between doing the bunnys from left only, to right only (only recommended for advanced bunny jumpers =) Remember, the button-presses and the mousemovement would be the complete opposite now, it's easy to get confused. BUT when you have this down, you'll be a bunnygod, because you will be able to use this in levels where you have to go around obstacles.
Example:

5. And please, for the love of god - move the jump button to the mouse, so you can concentrate on those quick keypresses on the keyboard. This has worked so incredibly to my advantage. Sure, it will take a week or so to get used to, but its just SO worth it.

Now, any questions? =)

Bleh =)

It's so god damn hard to explain something like this over the net. It would be alot easier to show you in person, but anyway, I can try to enlighten you.

1. You move the mouse twice as much with Quake2 style, since you always do the "boost"-jump to the same side (this will make dzipped demofiles larger, because you see more of the level/entities/whatnot, I think). Basically you repeat the very first bunnyjump you do in a series, to the same side instead of alternating "boosting" sides. Did anyone understand that? =)

2. In my 100 meter, I always boostjump towards the left (because it suits me better - I can also go towards the right, but not with the same snap in the bunnys). And remember, it's on the "outswing" you gain speed. Thus, dont swing the mouse towards the center when you do the jump (like you can in QW), swing the mouse out from center when you do the jump.

3. I made a small illustration (just a simple drawing) of how the path will look, this may make some of you understand alittle better. Remember, you only touch the ground at the black crosses, and this is where you do 80% of the work.
[img]http://myth.as/Files/bunnyill.JPG[/img]

4. Now for the hard part. Buttons and mousemovement. Oh my...where to start.
A bunny for me would look something like this:

a) Tap +right, hold +forward, hold +left and start swinging the mouse from right to left (I dont always tap +right, but I don't have an explanation of why and when).

b) When I've reached the edge of the mousemovement (going from right to left) I jump. Release +left, release +forward a millisecond after that, and tap +right.

c) Now I've just left the ground. Immediately I press and hold +left, while I move the mouse over to the right (to get ready to do the 2nd bunny).

d) When I'm almost landed again, the mouse should be aligned somewhere around the center of the screen (remember, this goes pretty fast, so you'd never get anywhere trying to measure up where you are, you just develop a feel for the bunnys and know when to do what).

e) The 2nd bunny is abit different than the first, but the rest of the bunnys hereafter are similar, with just a few modifications. Now, where was I? Right...uhm, so we're back to the starting point, except we've picked up some speed (and we're about to touch the ground). In the air you have no resistance, so whatever speed you have when you leave the ground, you keep until you touch a surface that gives you resistance. There's a great article somewhere here on Planetquake that explains the physics of quake. Its a recommended read.

f) Still holding +left I touch the ground, the mouse moves to the left edge (to gain speed), I hit +forward, jump, release +left and release +forward just after (this is the key - these 3 keypresses must be done so carefully, so fast that the keys on the keyboard will almost jump out of their sockets). Try this a while, and you'll develop a feel for how fast you need to do them. Key word here is snappy.

Ok, that should sum it up somewhat. But I bet none of you have understood what I've been trying to tell you =D

I ran this technique for like a week before it was good. Morfans can probably vouch for that since I've sent like 10 demos to him, each alittle faster than the last one.

As you go faster and faster, you'll see what works and what doesn't. Sometimes I forgot myself, and ran shitty times here's a few tips on how to get back on track:

1. Watch your fastest demo, and watch the demos to the fastest guys to see what works. Don't watch just my demo, watch weixing, timo, joszef and the rest (who dont use the quake2 style).

2. Never forget the mouse movement. Sometimes I'd find myself not moving the mouse far enough to the sides, and thus, not getting the speed I wanted. An observation here: I move from side to side without any deviance in pitch, weixing does somekinda circular motion, and timo got this crazy style where he almost looks 90 degrees straight down. What I've found is that it doesn't matter where you are in pitch, only yaw matters - but doing circles like weixing might help you stay in strict form.

3. Remember the snappy button presses/releases, if you do them sloppily, you'll never gain the speed you want.

4. Alternate between doing the bunnys from left only, to right only (only recommended for advanced bunny jumpers =) Remember, the button-presses and the mousemovement would be the complete opposite now, it's easy to get confused. BUT when you have this down, you'll be a bunnygod, because you will be able to use this in levels where you have to go around obstacles.
Example:
[img]http://myth.as/Files/februus.JPG[/img]

5. And please, for the love of god - move the jump button to the mouse, so you can concentrate on those quick keypresses on the keyboard. This has worked so incredibly to my advantage. Sure, it will take a week or so to get used to, but its just SO worth it.

Now, any questions? =)

Stubgaard

2004-03-02 08:07:48 am

Hey Ho Let's Go

Holy cow! That's about the biggest post we've seen on this forum yet, I think... It's a good read Kay, you should start doing SDA updates Grin

Timppa

2004-03-02 01:59:08 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Hmm this is interesting, but why I don't see the difference between Kay's style Weixing's style and my style when speaking of 100m demos? Of course they don't look the same but I find the style similar..?

Kay

2004-03-02 04:53:38 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

From what I can tell, Timppa, we do the exact same thing me, you, weixing and Jozsef. There's some difference in mousemovement, that one is obvious. And you all do your bunnys towards the right, I do mine to the left, but this doesn't matter any (you go to the side you feel best at).

One small observation: I start with a left bunny, and go with that. Weixing start with a right bunny, and go with that. You and Jozsef both start with a left bunny, then change to doing right bunnys for the rest of the run =)

Kay

2004-03-02 06:44:01 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I was proven wrong on februus, you can get across with side-to-side bunnys. I'd say it's easier to do it quake2 style, but maybe that's just cause I've practiced it alot lately.

Martin

2004-03-07 02:55:25 pm

I think I do something like that, just not at fast... For example in my dm3x_027.

I really can't understand why it would be faster to bunny only to one side. If you are equally good on both sides, shouldn't that be just as fast?

Stubgaard

2004-03-07 05:55:23 pm

Hey Ho Let's Go

Quote:

I think I do something like that, just not at fast... For example in my dm3x_027.

I really can't understand why it would be faster to bunny only to one side. If you are equally good on both sides, shouldn't that be just as fast?

Yeah, I don't quite understand it either to be honest Roll Eyes

Nice avatar btw Martin!

Kay

2004-03-07 10:17:28 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I think it might have something to do with the mouse movement. You generate speed from a combination of mousemovement and buttonpresses. Going to one side will simply make you move the mouse more. Dunno...might be wrong. Also I find it easier to go to one side only now, not only in the start but further in the run when you get high speeds. It's hard to see how you move in high speed because the lines (track markings) are sort of straightened out. In the start you can easily see that you move in s-patterns, but in the end it just looks like you go straight ahead.

Timinator

2004-03-08 10:02:18 am

18 to the diablo2 holy grail

From that big diagram it appears there could be a mathmatical representation. If you know about "sine waves" etc have a look at that and how there is 1 FULL wave per red line while only HALF for the convential way.

Even tho I don't know about bunnies and doing them this kinda convinces me that for q2 style you should always do it "one way" cuz the line after the cross points the same way while it alternates for the old style. Have to point this to MWH or something Smiley

Timppa

2004-04-08 02:03:09 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Ok, let's cut this bullshit off talking about q2 bunnies. They are totally different = you hold forward button when you bunny in q2... in quake1 you can't bunny if you hold forward button.

And about maths.. Off fucking course there is a mathemathical representation...always.. atleast on pseude code... Smiley

And you're probably right about moving your mouse that much.. but i don't really think that the functions they use in quakeC use sin or cos or tan or etc when we talk about speed. But I don't have the source right here to check it out so I'm not sure..

I've had a few beers so I'm not completely sure what I'm speaking... but why don't you check it out yourself!

OpenGL

2004-08-17 10:49:12 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

me shows up... actually the thing has nothing to do with quake2, i would rather call it "dual twisting bunny" instead. on the contrary, quake2 bunnies are basically straight and hardly has anything similar to quake1.
maybe it was because that i was the first one to make use of dual twisting bunny on the 100m map, and some guys doing updates(maybe morfy or tubbz) knew that i was an old quake2 player, so they thought that it must had come from quake2...
btw, kay is today's bunny god(any doubts?), and he explained the bunny very well above, so lets all salute to him! :clap:

sshplur

Edit history:

sshplur: 2004-12-14 10:40:24 am

2004-12-14 10:37:21 am

im stumped on step (f), though i understand everything else. ace by Kay!

i thought bunnies didn't use +forward at all, though he does make sense why i keep losing lose speed when changing strafes mid-air.

i can only bunny w/ +forward in case i stop and also from the above: blunt-bhopping i call it, cuz steering is really, well, blunt.

another thing is the lack of mouse movement in general bhopping as opposed to Q2-style bhopping.

Idkbutlike2

2008-01-06 05:12:24 pm

So Kay, what your saying is that Quake 2 bunny hops work like a wavy line zigzag. You do one loop jump in one direction, and another jump in the opposite direction to form like a helix pattern, right?

GinKo

2008-01-21 05:02:03 pm

Yeah, that's basically what he said 4 years ago. You should realise though that this forum is supposed to be about the original Quake and that the "q2 bunnies" they're talking about here is a kind of jumping method for Q1.

Tenetri

Edit history:

Tenetri: 2014-07-06 02:37:05 pm

2014-07-06 02:34:55 pm

Quote from Kay:

3. I made a small illustration (just a simple drawing) of how the path will look, this may make some of you understand alittle better. Remember, you only touch the ground at the black crosses, and this is where you do 80% of the work.

(I realise this is a thread from over 10 years ago. But I have a very specific question to a post about power-bunnyhopping)

I've been trying for years to get bunnyhopping down, but in the past few weeks I've been practicing to get power-bunny hopping down. (Want to start speedrunning it).

My question is, what was in this picture that was in his post? http://myth.as/Files/bunnyill.JPG & http://myth.as/Files/februus.JPG he says hes explaining how to do power-bunnyhopping and I feel like it would help alot if anyone has a copy of that image around somewhere. That website doesn't work, and wayback machine doesn't cache images. If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated!

sshplur

Edit history:

sshplur: 2014-07-06 05:01:45 pm

2014-07-06 05:00:49 pm

I whipped this up quickly from memory and it's more of a combination of the two pictures, demonstrating what the bunnies looke like and getting around an obstable:

The blue crosses are when you land.

Tenetri

2014-07-06 05:59:48 pm

excellent, thanks a lot! I've got some practicing to do, lol

sshplur

2014-07-06 07:00:26 pm

Actually I was a bit off lol. Here's what it should really look like:

Kay's accurate in his description; you start in a wierd 'S' trajectory but should get a consistent straight path from the second jump onwards.

Tenetri

Edit history:

Tenetri: 2014-07-06 08:44:06 pm

2014-07-06 07:51:22 pm

Oh my, seriously sshplur, thankyou! I actually finally just got consistent speeds over 500 and actually just 650 for the first time since I've started playing quake in the 90's Cheesy

That picture made sense for some reason, I'm not sure what, but I finally got it! I actually just got a 10 second in 100m as well Cheesy

my previous record was 13 using the regular bunnyhopping

Thanks again man!

edit: I should point out that I'm achieving those speeds by typing in to console "host_framerate 0.005" which slows the tickrate of the server down. I just remembered the command from years ago, and I looked it up earlier today, comes in handy to practice bunnyhopping though! I've slowly been increasing the number every 0.001 to make it more challenging. I'll eventually get 10 seconds again once I practice some more in regular game-speed, but for now I'm happy with the progress.

djcj

2014-07-07 07:17:23 am

Quote:

It would be alot easier to show you in person

You mean like to go on the street and start bunny hopping there? Cheesy

Tenetri

2014-07-07 12:16:51 pm

Quote from djcj:

You mean like to go on the street and start bunny hopping there? Cheesy

I've been bunnyhopping since the old days of Quake and CS, and I used to have dreams of me bunnyhopping up and down my street, and some other people could do it too. Need to save a demo of the dream so you learn to BH Tongue

tripmind

2014-07-16 03:16:29 am

Quake II bhopping works about the same way as half life and quake 1 bhopping, the major difference is that there is no air control or surf like mechanics that allow you to cut through the air and change direction whilst maintaining speed. Instead when in the air, turning mechanics are similar to playing halo. Holding any WASD key will result in a slow shift in that direction. Speed is built up by: repeated jumps in quick succession and 'flicking' the mouse as you jump and strafe. You must hold the forward button down the entire time though.

Barton

2014-11-15 03:59:23 pm

Sup y'all.

There is no bunny hopping in Q2. Instead you have:

1. Circle strafe jumping: This was the type of jumping used before Q2 got the bug that added strafe
jumping. You basically jump while holding down on forward and turn the mouse smoothly to the direction
you want to move.

Here's an oldschool Q2 player who uses circle jumping:

2. Strafe jumping: Holding down on left or right strafe while turning your mouse roughly at an 45 or
more degrees from the center of the screen. This is the same type of strafe jumping you see in Q3.

Here's a short segment of purely strafe jumping:

Of course the whole map he is using it but I wanted to pick a part where the player was solely doing
that.

I really wish my map editor wasn't giving me so much problems with compiling. I have a half done map that would help people to practice with strafe jumping, but I guess you can do the same just by playing on the Q2 jump mod servers.

If you're curious about bunny hopping however:

Bunny hopping uses zig-zag like movement which is essentially done by hold down on strafe left or right key and turn in the same direction as the strafe key you are. You simply turn your mouse cursor to the same direction as the direction of strafe you are holding onto.

Here's an example of how it looks like:

Here's a tutorial of how to do it from QuakePhil:

Here's a more, in-depth explanation of Quakeworld bunny hopping: http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/Bunnyhop

Sup y'all.

There is no bunny hopping in Q2. Instead you have:

1. Circle strafe jumping: This was the type of jumping used before Q2 got the bug that added strafe 
jumping. You basically jump while holding down on forward and turn the mouse smoothly to the direction 
you want to move.

Here's an oldschool Q2 player who uses circle jumping: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkDrA6UibDU

2. Strafe jumping: Holding down on left or right strafe while turning your mouse roughly at an 45 or 
more degrees from the center of the screen. This is the same type of strafe jumping you see in Q3.

Here's a short segment of purely strafe jumping: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eIXwzge98w#t=11s

Of course the whole map he is using it but I wanted to pick a part where the player was solely doing 
that.

I really wish my map editor wasn't giving me so much problems with compiling. I have a half done map that would help people to practice with strafe jumping, but I guess you can do the same just by playing on the Q2 jump mod servers.

If you're curious about bunny hopping however:

Bunny hopping uses zig-zag like movement which is essentially done by hold down on strafe left or right key and turn in the same direction as the strafe key you are. You simply turn your mouse cursor to the same direction as the direction of strafe you are holding onto.

Here's an example of how it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuDKqgxDfM

Here's a tutorial of how to do it from QuakePhil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6jm9iGW2Co

Here's a more, in-depth explanation of Quakeworld bunny hopping: http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/Bunnyhop