Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (Gamecube any% and 100%)

2008-12-11 07:39:39 pm

aka theenglishman

I couldn't find a thread to necro, so I decided to make my own.

In addition to a Resident Evil 4 cleargame NTSC run, the any% and 100% runs of Sands of Time (or 98% if you insist on displaying it at the final boss fight) will be my main projects. Most of my route is taken from satvara and VisionsOfNine, the latter of which has an excellent (albeit shot with a camcorder) run on YouTube.

Here's Segment 1 of my testrun (this will be a testrun because of the too-bad-for-SDA video quality), which completes up to the first save prompt in 2:58, 13 seconds faster than VisionsOfNine's run thanks to route changes I made.

So...what do you think?

Thread title:

MatrixTN

2008-12-11 11:43:10 pm

You got a deletion wish?

Isn't the percentage displayed in SoT storyline progress? And by 100%, you mean all sand clouds collected for max sand tanks?

qubit

2008-12-12 07:45:01 am

aka theenglishman

Yeah, I meant all sand tanks/health upgrades. I'm not sure whether I would count killing every enemy, however it might make the run seem more complete. I've also found a way to skip the "putting-sword-away" cutscene in some cases.

So yeah, watch the YouTube link in my first post, which is for my any% run.

MatrixTN

2008-12-12 05:30:45 pm

You got a deletion wish?

Quote from qubit:

I'm not sure whether I would count killing every enemy.

I don't believe that's ever been necessary in an 100; I wouldn't.

Prognosis_4

(user is banned)

2008-12-13 02:40:15 am

If the only reason you're doing a test run is because you lack the proper recording equipment, I suggest you do that first instead of rigorously running the game twice.

Nevertheless, I love the PoP series so I'll be glad to watch whatever you produce Smiley

Reaver

Edit history:

Reaver: 2008-12-13 06:22:17 am

2008-12-13 06:04:47 am

Great. Its about time someone made a new run of this. I take it you know about getting the dagger of time early and how to get the other 2 swords early? Also In your your test run there is a way to cancel the slow motion scenes by hitting the button that gives you a look of the entire area (overview mode I think its called) and switching back again quickly. It can save a second at least. Also the bit where you have to walk along the ledges (2.40 on your video) before there are some pillars straight in front of you. If you jump onto the last one and straight to the ledge you'll be forced under the statues head which is a bit further along than where you would start. The downside is because you are jumping off the pillar so you'll initiate the slow mo scene, but you can cancel it by switching to overview and then back again quickly. It may or may not be faster, you could do a test with it to see. At least the longer pillar slow mo scene at the end of the segment will be cancelled if you do this. By the way right at the start of your segment you can wallrun to the higher walkway on the left from the right hand one (The right hand walkway being the one you get to at 1.00 in your video). Its a straighter path to the doorway but I'm not sure if the wallrun will cost you more time than its worth. You could test it to see.

EDIT: I just watched some of VisionOfNine's run. If you move onto the 2nd segment before testing any of these I recommend that you switch the camera angle on the wallrun/jump bit to cut the slow mo scene. Also when you get to the room where he says "and there it lay, the dagger of time" I suggest you jump from the second platform to the larger one (45 seconds into VisionsOfNine's segment 2). You can also jump directly from this to where you want to go instead of running up the wall and then running along. I'm not entirely sure why everyone does run up this wall (@49 secs into his segment 2) when you don't really need too.

Great. Its about time someone made a new run of this. I take it you know about getting the dagger of time early and how to get the other 2 swords early? Also In your your test run there is a way to cancel the slow motion scenes by hitting the button that gives you a look of the entire area (overview mode I think its called) and switching back again quickly. It can save a second at least. Also the bit where you have to walk along the ledges (2.40 on your video) before there are some pillars straight in front of you. If you jump onto the last one and straight to the ledge you'll be forced under the statues head which is a bit further along than where you would start. The downside is because you are jumping off the pillar so you'll initiate the slow mo scene, but you can cancel it by switching to overview and then back again quickly. It may or may not be faster, you could do a test with it to see. At least the longer pillar slow mo scene at the end of the segment will be cancelled if you do this. By the way right at the start of your segment you can wallrun to the higher walkway on the left from the right hand one (The right hand walkway being the one you get to at 1.00 in your video). Its a straighter path to the doorway but I'm not sure if the wallrun will cost you more time than its worth. You could test it to see.

EDIT: I just watched some of VisionOfNine's run. If you move onto the 2nd segment before testing any of these I recommend that you switch the camera angle on the wallrun/jump bit to cut the slow mo scene. Also when you get to the room where he says "and there it lay, the dagger of time" I suggest you jump from the second platform to the larger one (45 seconds into VisionsOfNine's segment 2). You can also jump directly from this to where you want to go instead of running up the wall and then running along. I'm not entirely sure why everyone does run up this wall (@49 secs into his segment 2) when you don't really need too.

qubit

2008-12-13 04:55:27 pm

aka theenglishman

I knew about early DoT and getting the first wall-breaking sword early, but - is there really a way to get the OHKO sword earlier? Most of my route so far has been from satvara and suggestions from VoN, as well as stuff I've made up in the process.

I've had a very brief opportunity to work with the slow-mo-cancel stuff and I'm going to do Segment 1 again with that knowledge and more precise movement. I'm guessing I can get Segment 1 to 2:51 or 2:52 if I'm lucky.

I had about 30 or 40 cracks at segment 2 (and DoT early) to no avail. I managed to do it once but promptly fell on some spikes soon after that. I actually think the leap-of-faith at the end of the break is HARDER to do than the wall rebound, but maybe that's just the camera's way of giving me the finger :/

Quote from Prognosis_4:

If the only reason you're doing a test run is because you lack the proper recording equipment, I suggest you do that first instead of rigorously running the game twice.

I see it as extra practice. In the end, I hope to have four runs of Sands of Time ready for SDA: 100% and any% SS, and any% and 100% segmented. I will DEFINITELY be able to complete and submit the segmented runs, but single-segment is entirely dependent on whether or not I will have the time between school and family matters to sit down and be able to do three or four attempts a day.

I knew about early DoT and getting the first wall-breaking sword early, but - is there really a way to get the OHKO sword earlier?  Most of my route so far has been from satvara and suggestions from VoN, as well as stuff I've made up in the process.

I've had a very brief opportunity to work with the slow-mo-cancel stuff and I'm going to do Segment 1 again with that knowledge and more precise movement.  I'm guessing I can get Segment 1 to 2:51 or 2:52 if I'm lucky.

I had about 30 or 40 cracks at segment 2 (and DoT early) to no avail.  I managed to do it once but promptly fell on some spikes soon after that.  I actually think the leap-of-faith at the end of the break is HARDER to do than the wall rebound, but maybe that's just the camera's way of giving me the finger :/

[quote="Prognosis_4"]
If the only reason you're doing a test run is because you lack the proper recording equipment, I suggest you do that first instead of rigorously running the game twice.[/quote]
I see it as extra practice.  In the end, I hope to have four runs of Sands of Time ready for SDA: 100% and any% SS, and any% and 100% segmented.  I will DEFINITELY be able to complete and submit the segmented runs, but single-segment is entirely dependent on whether or not I will have the time between school and family matters to sit down and be able to do three or four attempts a day.

Poesta

2008-12-14 05:34:46 am

Yarr

I would love to see this. I was going to do this myself, but some of the tricks of VisionsofNine and satvara are really hard to pull off (especially the rewind tricks) and I didn't want to do a segmented run. I think I discovered one or two tricks myself, but I threw away my notes. Roll Eyes

I'll see if I can remember them.

About the second sword shortcut, I think Reaver means jumping from the platform in the centre of the library to the rope, but I could be wrong. The DoT shortcut is very hard indeed, I've had the same experience as you. I didn't know you can get up a ladder by wallrunning into it. Tongue

Reaver

2008-12-14 06:07:49 am

Quote from Poesta:

About the second sword shortcut, I think Reaver means jumping from the platform in the centre of the library to the rope, but I could be wrong. The DoT shortcut is very hard indeed, I've had the same experience as you. I didn't know you can get up a ladder by wallrunning into it. Tongue

Yes thats the 2nd sword I was referring too. I was working on a run of this game and found a lot of these shortcuts but I found Satvara's demo of shortcuts on youtube and felt massively demotivated and never completed the run. Especially when I found out how to get the DoT early, I really did think I was on to a winner there, but just my luck someone beat me to the punch. Plus I dont know how to pull off that rewind trick. I thought of another place it could be used which would skip a cutscene. I'll upload my demo of my segment 2 if I can find it. Its not that great to be honest but I think I used the first person view to get the precise angle to do the trick from. It might help you out. Also I believe that I stop briefly before the leap of faith so that I dont fall into the spikes. I found it a pain to run and jump directly like you did. How do you do that rewind trick to get more height on the wallruns? I just cant do it. I have the PS2 version (PAL as I'm from the UK - don't know if that makes a difference). I'll see if I can track down my segment 2. Perhaps I'll upload my segment 1 as well. Its not fantastic but you might see some differences that could be useful.

[quote="Poesta"]
About the second sword shortcut, I think Reaver means jumping from the platform in the centre of the library to the rope, but I could be wrong. The DoT shortcut is very hard indeed, I've had the same experience as you. I didn't know you can get up a ladder by wallrunning into it. :P
[/quote]

Yes thats the 2nd sword I was referring too. I was working on a run of this game and found a lot of these shortcuts but I found Satvara's demo of shortcuts on youtube and felt massively demotivated and never completed the run. Especially when I found out how to get the DoT early, I really did think I was on to a winner there, but just my luck someone beat me to the punch. Plus I dont know how to pull off that rewind trick. I thought of another place it could be used which would skip a cutscene. I'll upload my demo of my segment 2 if I can find it. Its not that great to be honest but I think I used the first person view to get the precise angle to do the trick from. It might help you out. Also I believe that I stop briefly before the leap of faith so that I dont fall into the spikes. I found it a pain to run and jump directly like you did. How do you do that rewind trick to get more height on the wallruns? I just cant do it. I have the PS2 version (PAL as I'm from the UK - don't know if that makes a difference). I'll see if I can track down my segment 2. Perhaps I'll upload my segment 1 as well. Its not fantastic but you might see some differences that could be useful.

Poesta

2008-12-14 06:29:42 am

Yarr

I have the PC version and I can do a longer wallrun (like in the platform room) by rewinding when I'm as high a I can get. It's pretty hard to get though, especially when you only have 4 sand tanks.

Anyway, I dug into my basket of paper waste and I found my notes. I will show you some optimizations that I think satvara and VoN didn't show using the videos of IRbaboon's run on YouTube:

- In this video, you can do a wallrun at 0:18 but it's very hard not to fall of the ledge while trying to do so. Also, if you rewind at 1:13 (or earlier, I'm not sure where the trigger that loads the new level part is) you can do a wallrun straight to the hole in the wall, I'm not sure if it's any faster though. In the same video, if you turn around at 3:20 you can grab the ledge using a rewind jump (so that you jump again in mid-air). You're skipping a cutscene though, so when you push the cabinet to the side you may end up in the void. I'm not sure of this because I only did this one time and I died before I reached the cabinet.
- In this video, you can do a wallrun to the left at 0:06 and jump to the other side.
- In this video, you can exit the bird cage faster by jumping straight to the last platform at 9:42.

Although I haven't tried this myself, if you're going to fight the sand creatures in the prison you could do a mega-freeze, retrieve the sand cloud at the other end of the room and then do another mega-freeze. There might be some other fights where there are sand clouds available too. Try not to take too much sand after you got 4 power tanks because the dagger will grow new sand tanks (and power tanks) which means you have to retrieve more sand in order to get a mega-freeze. The controls suck while you're in mega-freeze, it helps to activate the landscape view.

I have the PC version and I can do a longer wallrun (like in the platform room) by rewinding when I'm as high a I can get. It's pretty hard to get though, especially when you only have 4 sand tanks.

Anyway, I dug into my basket of paper waste and I found my notes. I will show you some optimizations that I think satvara and VoN didn't show using the videos of IRbaboon's run on YouTube:

- In [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCsOvWclWTc]this video[/url], you can do a wallrun at 0:18 but it's very hard not to fall of the ledge while trying to do so. Also, if you rewind at 1:13 (or earlier, I'm not sure where the trigger that loads the new level part is) you can do a wallrun straight to the hole in the wall, I'm not sure if it's any faster though. In the same video, if you turn around at 3:20 you can grab the ledge using a rewind jump (so that you jump again in mid-air). You're skipping a cutscene though, so when you push the cabinet to the side you may end up in the void. I'm not sure of this because I only did this one time and I died before I reached the cabinet.
- In [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_6pMgzuPi0]this video[/url], you can do a wallrun to the left at 0:06 and jump to the other side.
- In [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg3H-XZGaeI]this video[/url], you can exit the bird cage faster by jumping straight to the last platform at 9:42.

Although I haven't tried this myself, if you're going to fight the sand creatures in the prison you could do a mega-freeze, retrieve the sand cloud at the other end of the room and then do another mega-freeze. There might be some other fights where there are sand clouds available too. Try not to take too much sand after you got 4 power tanks because the dagger will grow new sand tanks (and power tanks) which means you have to retrieve more sand in order to get a mega-freeze. The controls suck while you're in mega-freeze, it helps to activate the landscape view.

Reaver

2008-12-14 07:22:52 am

Turns out I didn't do a polished version of this run. I have a tendency to run a game several times over until I get a time I'm happy with before I start perfecting segments to gain my top time. I have the test runs still so here's segment 1 & 2. Keep in mind its no where near perfect. It was just to test routes, ideas and to gain an estimate of the time these techniques and shortucts would save. The view of the wall in the segment 2 might help you out a bit. I think my segment 1 is slower to be honest but I uploaded it anyway.

test seg1 & 2: http://www.fileupyours.com/view/220921/PoPSoT_Seg1_LQ.mp4

qubit

2008-12-14 11:10:36 am

aka theenglishman

Quote from Poesta:

I have the PC version and I can do a longer wallrun (like in the platform room) by rewinding when I'm as high a I can get.

How long do you have to rewind to boost? Just for a half-second or so?

Poesta

2008-12-14 02:54:23 pm

Yarr

I tried tapping R and holding it down for half a second, but I couldn't find a reliable way to do it.

Reaver

Edit history:

Reaver: 2008-12-14 04:20:13 pm

2008-12-14 04:09:48 pm

Screw it, I'm gonna restart my run and finish it if I can find the time outside of my work, training and cs:s addiction. You up for some competition?

EDIT: Just remembered in my segment 1 at the start I run directly up the wall you're supposed to jump across too. I dont think you are supposed to be able to do this. I found it out accidentally. If you try it you'll find that you just flip off the end before grabbing the ledge. If you let go of the wallrun button just before the peak and press it again you seem to get a little bit more height plus you dont flip away from the wall. I'd say going the way you did is definately faster than running back to the other wall so stick with that.

qubit

2008-12-14 08:12:35 pm

aka theenglishman

Quote from Reaver:

Screw it, I'm gonna restart my run and finish it if I can find the time outside of my work, training and cs:s addiction. You up for some competition?

I think the PS2 version would have to be a separate category, because as far as I can tell the cutscenes run slower on PlayStation 2. On GameCube you gain control of the Prince around the time he says "fighting like a warrior in my first battle" - or are you on PAL? The PS2 and Xbox also have the ability to snap the camera behind the Prince (with L3 iirc) allowing for some sharper angles where the Prince would have to "turn" as if on a dais on Gamecube.

I would love some competition normally, but I have a few factors against me, such as the Channukah holidays, far from giving me the free time I need to complete a speedrun like this, are chock-full of rendevous with the family. Fun.

Quote from Reaver:

EDIT: Just remembered in my segment 1 at the start I run directly up the wall you're supposed to jump across too. I dont think you are supposed to be able to do this. I found it out accidentally. If you try it you'll find that you just flip off the end before grabbing the ledge. If you let go of the wallrun button just before the peak and press it again you seem to get a little bit more height plus you dont flip away from the wall. I'd say going the way you did is definately faster than running back to the other wall so stick with that.

I experimented with that a bit and found that letting go of then holding R at the peak of a wallclimb let you climb higher the second time. Might be useful in a few spots.

[quote="Reaver"]
Screw it, I'm gonna restart my run and finish it if I can find the time outside of my work, training and cs:s addiction. You up for some competition? [/quote]

I think the PS2 version would have to be a separate category, because as far as I can tell the cutscenes run slower on PlayStation 2.  On GameCube you gain control of the Prince around the time he says "fighting like a warrior in my first battle" - or are you on PAL?  The PS2 and Xbox also have the ability to snap the camera behind the Prince (with L3 iirc) allowing for some sharper angles where the Prince would have to "turn" as if on a dais on Gamecube.

I would love some competition normally, but I have a few factors against me, such as the Channukah holidays, far from giving me the free time I need to complete a speedrun like this, are chock-full of rendevous with the family.  Fun.

[quote="Reaver"]EDIT: Just remembered in my segment 1 at the start I run directly up the wall you're supposed to jump across too. I dont think you are supposed to be able to do this. I found it out accidentally. If you try it you'll find that you just flip off the end before grabbing the ledge. If you let go of the wallrun button just before the peak and press it again you seem to get a little bit more height plus you dont flip away from the wall. I'd say going the way you did is definately faster than running back to the other wall so stick with that. 
[/quote]

I experimented with that a bit and found that letting go of then holding R at the peak of a wallclimb let you climb higher the second time.  Might be useful in a few spots.

satvara

Edit history:

satvara: 2008-12-15 04:43:22 am

2008-12-15 01:30:00 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

So there is an interest in Sands of Time speed running.

My 1:29 speed run (time at final game save) was done over two years ago and I haven't played since, so I can not say that I have an active interest in the game as you all do, unfortunately. I am glad that you guys have used my “PoP: Sands of Time, Speed Tactics” vid for faster times.

However, I browsed through this topic and looked at VoN's run. I'm disappointed. All I've seen is what I put up in the speed tactics vid.

There is more. The content is not nearly as essential compared to what was shown in the vid, but it is relevant for speed runners. I did not include it in the vid because it was so conceptually similar to what I had already shown and I assumed the average speed runner would figure it, with the advanced speed runner going even further and using sand rewind to pass through walls, for example. That is not so apparently, at least not yet.

I'd like to help. I'm going to put up an extended version of my speed tactics vid that will go over the other stuff that was left out. It is being prepared as I write this.

And I know there is so much more to Sands of Time than even that... but all that depends on those currently playing the game. And my time ended long ago.

Quote from Reaver:

Yes thats the 2nd sword I was referring too. I was working on a run of this game and found a lot of these shortcuts but I found Satvara's demo of shortcuts on youtube and felt massively demotivated and never completed the run. Especially when I found out how to get the DoT early, I really did think I was on to a winner there, but just my luck someone beat me to the punch.

Reavy10101, is it? I remember you at Youtube. Was that not like a year ago or something? And you still have an interest in the game? Wow. I only played the game for like a three month period. You really are dedicated. And I was impressed when you told me you found some of those tactics on your own. That shows you are capable. Why didn't you just go and find more after you saw my vid? I shared those tactics for players like you, so you can apply them to learn more and go faster.

You should keep going, continue along the path that we were both on. I assure you it goes much farther.

Quote from Reaver:

I thought of another place it could be used which would skip a cutscene.

Courtesan's chamber in the palace, is it? If so, IIRC (two years ago!), most alternate routes/skips I took in this area always had the next room unloaded, and that includes skipping the cutscene and/or reaching the exit ledges near the entrance. You need to try it yourself, though.

In fact, game overs/loading triggers were difficulties I had to overcome all throughout my time with the game (f.e., Mess Hall Battle Skip, "Beam Area" Skip, Reverse Observatory, etc.).

Quote from Reaver:

Just remembered in my segment 1 at the start I run directly up the wall you're supposed to jump across too.

I used this and it will be in the extended vid... even more evidence of your capability, Reaver.

EDIT:
@Poesta: I missed your post with the notes. The first two tricks are new to me, that is, if I understood them correctly. And you threw out the paper? I used the last two. Good work.

And you obviously had the same result as I did in the Courtesan Chamber. The Warehouse is another problem area. I could get to the bottom area in just a few seconds with proper jumping, but I could not continue because of a Game Over related to Farah's programming.

So there is an interest in Sands of Time speed running.
 
My 1:29 speed run (time at final game save) was done over two years ago and I haven't played since, so I can not say that I have an active interest in the game as you all do, unfortunately. I am glad that you guys have used my “PoP: Sands of Time, Speed Tactics” vid for faster times.

However, I browsed through this topic and looked at VoN's run. I'm disappointed. All I've seen is what I put up in the speed tactics vid.

There is more. The content is not nearly as essential compared to what was shown in the vid, but it is relevant for speed runners. I did not include it in the vid because it was so conceptually similar to what I had already shown and I assumed the average speed runner would figure it, with the advanced speed runner going even further and using sand rewind to pass through walls, for example. That is not so apparently, at least not yet.

I'd like to help. I'm going to put up an extended version of my speed tactics vid that will go over the other stuff that was left out. It is being prepared as I write this.

And I know there is so much more to Sands of Time than even that... but all that depends on those currently playing the game. And my time ended long ago.

[quote="Reaver"]Yes thats the 2nd sword I was referring too. I was working on a run of this game and found a lot of these shortcuts but I found Satvara's demo of shortcuts on youtube and felt massively demotivated and never completed the run. Especially when I found out how to get the DoT early, I really did think I was on to a winner there, but just my luck someone beat me to the punch.[/quote]

:(

Reavy10101, is it? I remember you at Youtube. Was that not like a year ago or something? And you still have an interest in the game? Wow. I only played the game for like a three month period. You really are dedicated. And I was impressed when you told me you found some of those tactics on your own. That shows you are capable. Why didn't you just go and find more after you saw my vid? I shared those tactics for players like you, so you can apply them to learn more and go faster.

You should keep going, continue along the path that we were both on. I assure you it goes much farther.

[quote="Reaver"]I thought of another place it could be used which would skip a cutscene.[/quote]

Courtesan's chamber in the palace, is it? If so, IIRC (two years ago!), most alternate routes/skips I took in this area always had the next room unloaded, and that includes skipping the cutscene and/or reaching the exit ledges near the entrance. You need to try it yourself, though.

In fact, game overs/loading triggers were difficulties I had to overcome all throughout my time with the game (f.e., Mess Hall Battle Skip, "Beam Area" Skip, Reverse Observatory, etc.).

[quote="Reaver"]Just remembered in my segment 1 at the start I run directly up the wall you're supposed to jump across too.[/quote]

I used this and it will be in the extended vid... even more evidence of your capability, Reaver.

EDIT:
@Poesta: I missed your post with the notes. The first two tricks are new to me, that is, if I understood them correctly. And you threw out the paper? I used the last two. Good work.

And you obviously had the same result as I did in the Courtesan Chamber. The Warehouse is another problem area. I could get to the bottom area in just a few seconds with proper jumping, but I could not continue because of a Game Over related to Farah's programming.

Reaver

2008-12-15 03:42:41 am

Quote from satvara:

So there is an interest in Sands of Time speed running.

My 1:29 speed run (time at final game save) was done over two years ago and I haven't played since, so I can not say that I have an active interest in the game as you all do, unfortunately. I am glad that you guys have used my “PoP: Sands of Time, Speed Tactics” vid for faster times.

However, I browsed through this topic and looked at VoN's run. I'm disappointed. All I've seen is what I put up in the speed tactics vid.

There is more. The content is not nearly as essential compared to what was shown in the vid, but it is relevant for speed runners. I did not include it in the vid because it was so conceptually similar to what I had already shown and I assumed the average speed runner would figure it, with the advanced speed runner going even further and using sand rewind to pass through walls, for example. That is not so apparently, at least not yet.

I'd like to help. I'm going to put up an extended version of my speed tactics vid that will go over the other stuff that was left out. It is being prepared as I write this.

And I know there is so much more to Sands of Time than even that... but all that depends on those currently playing the game. And my time ended long ago.

Quote from Reaver:

Yes thats the 2nd sword I was referring too. I was working on a run of this game and found a lot of these shortcuts but I found Satvara's demo of shortcuts on youtube and felt massively demotivated and never completed the run. Especially when I found out how to get the DoT early, I really did think I was on to a winner there, but just my luck someone beat me to the punch.

Reavy10101, is it? I remember you at Youtube. Was that not like a year ago or something? And you still have an interest in the game? Wow. I only played the game for like a three month period. You really are dedicated. And I was impressed when you told me you found some of those tactics on your own. That shows you are capable. Why didn't you just go and find more after you saw my vid? I shared those tactics for players like you, so you can apply them to learn more and go faster.

You should keep going, continue along the path that we were both on. I assure you it goes much farther.

Quote from Reaver:

I thought of another place it could be used which would skip a cutscene.

Courtesan's chamber in the palace, is it? If so, IIRC (two years ago!), most alternate routes/skips I took in this area always had the next room unloaded, and that includes skipping the cutscene and/or reaching the exit ledges near the entrance. You need to try it yourself, though.

In fact, game overs/loading triggers were difficulties I had to overcome all throughout my time with the game (f.e., Mess Hall Battle Skip, "Beam Area" Skip, Reverse Observatory, etc.).

Quote from Reaver:

Just remembered in my segment 1 at the start I run directly up the wall you're supposed to jump across too.

I used this and it will be in the extended vid... even more evidence of your capability, Reaver.

Yes I am Reavy10101 :D. Thanks for the compliment. I haven't played this particular game in a very long time but I still have an interest in it. I was working on seeing if I could improve The 2 Thrones run or complete it single segment on hard, as well as wasting away playing far too much counter-strike:source. Unfortunately I am running the PAL version of the game as I am UK based so it will be a slower run than NTSC. I will however complete the run with some of the tricks that I have found that I have not seen used yet. If anything someone can add to it and get a better time overall. There are still a few neat time savers than what most people have seen in your shortcuts video. I should restart this run soon as I a will be on my christmas holidays. If anything I can at least say I did it. I started watching VisionOfNine's run and I wasn't too impressed either. No offence intended towards him. It just seemed to be lacking in areas. I haven't watched the whole thing yet and I was quite put off by his encounter with the first enemy where he gets stuck.

I really need to see if I can do that rewind trick as this would be immensly useful. I already know several places I couldn't access with my techniques but this rewind trick would help greatly. At the time I didn't know about it so I invented a different method for getting the 1st sword earlier. I'll add the demo of it later so people can decide what they think is easier. I would say your method is easier as mine relies on accurate positioning at an awkward angle.

I found difficulties in room skips as well where the room wouldnt load properly. It took me a while to figure out I had to hit triggers to get them to intiate the next room without casuing problems.

[quote="satvara"]
So there is an interest in Sands of Time speed running.
 
My 1:29 speed run (time at final game save) was done over two years ago and I haven't played since, so I can not say that I have an active interest in the game as you all do, unfortunately. I am glad that you guys have used my “PoP: Sands of Time, Speed Tactics” vid for faster times.

However, I browsed through this topic and looked at VoN's run. I'm disappointed. All I've seen is what I put up in the speed tactics vid.

There is more. The content is not nearly as essential compared to what was shown in the vid, but it is relevant for speed runners. I did not include it in the vid because it was so conceptually similar to what I had already shown and I assumed the average speed runner would figure it, with the advanced speed runner going even further and using sand rewind to pass through walls, for example. That is not so apparently, at least not yet.

I'd like to help. I'm going to put up an extended version of my speed tactics vid that will go over the other stuff that was left out. It is being prepared as I write this.

And I know there is so much more to Sands of Time than even that... but all that depends on those currently playing the game. And my time ended long ago.

[quote="Reaver"]Yes thats the 2nd sword I was referring too. I was working on a run of this game and found a lot of these shortcuts but I found Satvara's demo of shortcuts on youtube and felt massively demotivated and never completed the run. Especially when I found out how to get the DoT early, I really did think I was on to a winner there, but just my luck someone beat me to the punch.[/quote]

:(

Reavy10101, is it? I remember you at Youtube. Was that not like a year ago or something? And you still have an interest in the game? Wow. I only played the game for like a three month period. You really are dedicated. And I was impressed when you told me you found some of those tactics on your own. That shows you are capable. Why didn't you just go and find more after you saw my vid? I shared those tactics for players like you, so you can apply them to learn more and go faster.

You should keep going, continue along the path that we were both on. I assure you it goes much farther.

[quote="Reaver"]I thought of another place it could be used which would skip a cutscene.[/quote]

Courtesan's chamber in the palace, is it? If so, IIRC (two years ago!), most alternate routes/skips I took in this area always had the next room unloaded, and that includes skipping the cutscene and/or reaching the exit ledges near the entrance. You need to try it yourself, though.

In fact, game overs/loading triggers were difficulties I had to overcome all throughout my time with the game (f.e., Mess Hall Battle Skip, "Beam Area" Skip, Reverse Observatory, etc.).

[quote="Reaver"]Just remembered in my segment 1 at the start I run directly up the wall you're supposed to jump across too.[/quote]

I used this and it will be in the extended vid... even more evidence of your capability, Reaver.
[/quote]

Yes I am Reavy10101   :D. Thanks for the compliment. I haven't played this particular game in a very long time but I still have an interest in it. I was working on seeing if I could improve The 2 Thrones run or complete it single segment on hard, as well as wasting away playing far too much counter-strike:source. Unfortunately I am running the PAL version of the game as I am UK based so it will be a slower run than NTSC. I will however complete the run with some of the tricks that I have found that I have not seen used yet. If anything someone can add to it and get a better time overall. There are still a few neat time savers than what most people have seen in your shortcuts video. I should restart this run soon as I a will be on my christmas holidays. If anything I can at least say I did it. I started watching VisionOfNine's run and I wasn't too impressed either. No offence intended towards him. It just seemed to be lacking in areas. I haven't watched the whole thing yet and I was quite put off by his encounter with the first enemy where he gets stuck.

I really need to see if I can do that rewind trick as this would be immensly useful. I already know several places I couldn't access with my techniques but this rewind trick would help greatly. At the time I didn't know about it so I invented a different method for getting the 1st sword earlier. I'll add the demo of it later so people can decide what they think is easier. I would say your method is easier as mine relies on accurate positioning at an awkward angle.

I found difficulties in room skips as well where the room wouldnt load properly. It took me a while to figure out I had to hit triggers to get them to intiate the next room without casuing problems.

qubit

2008-12-15 08:54:47 am

aka theenglishman

the fates have conspired to have me in a Niagara lodge starting tomorrow until the 19th away from my Gamecube :-[ so no run progress until then. I'd love to see any progress you guys make.

And satvara - nice to finally meet you Cheesy

Poesta

2008-12-15 11:03:24 am

Yarr

@satvara: just what is the Courtesan Chamber?

My way of getting the first sword early was like this:

- Get to the higher part of the baths and move the statue away from the crack.
- Fight the sand creatures until they stop spawning momentarily, Farah will then crawl into the crack.
- Get up onto the ledge by running up the wall and jumping off. This is hard because your feet may get wet, you might accidentally do a wallrun or a sand creature might get in the way (by then they should be spawning again)
- Do a double jump (using rewind) to the higher platform. This might even be harder than the ledge trick.
- Get the sword and get down.
- Fight the sand creatures until they stop spawning momentarily, then break the wall and get out. It may be possible to break the wall while there are still sand creatures around if they are harrassing Farah and not you. Otherwise the prince will face away from the wall making it impossible to attack it.
- Repeat the last step.

It may be possible to ditch Farah somewhere so you can skip the Mess Hall fight, but then you have to be really fast to pull the lever since for some reason when you get outside (sometimes more early on) Farah's health starts draining. The most difficult part is getting the jump off the scaffolding right at the first time, otherwise you will probably not make it to the lever before Farah dies.

@satvara: just what is the Courtesan Chamber?

My way of getting the first sword early was like this:

- Get to the higher part of the baths and move the statue away from the crack.
- Fight the sand creatures until they stop spawning momentarily, Farah will then crawl into the crack.
- Get up onto the ledge by running up the wall and jumping off. This is hard because your feet may get wet, you might accidentally do a wallrun or a sand creature might get in the way (by then they should be spawning again)
- Do a double jump (using rewind) to the higher platform. This might even be harder than the ledge trick.
- Get the sword and get down.
- Fight the sand creatures until they stop spawning momentarily, then break the wall and get out. It may be possible to break the wall while there are still sand creatures around if they are harrassing Farah and not you. Otherwise the prince will face away from the wall making it impossible to attack it.
- Repeat the last step.

It may be possible to ditch Farah somewhere so you can skip the Mess Hall fight, but then you have to be really fast to pull the lever since for some reason when you get outside (sometimes more early on) Farah's health starts draining. The most difficult part is getting the jump off the scaffolding right at the first time, otherwise you will probably not make it to the lever before Farah dies.

satvara

2008-12-15 01:52:22 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

@Reaver:

Good luck.

I knew of an alternate way to get up to those ledges for early sword, as well. It could be the same one, but I can not remember it very well and I recall thinking it was slower than my original.

I would recommend a Single-Segment speed run if you can not perform the "Sand Jumps" (what I called them). You will at least beat the current run on the site and I don't see how anybody could criticize you for not using them in that kind of run, and you obviously want to start now. Your call.

Singe-Segment can be easier if you avoid the hardest tricks, too. My 1:29 was segmented and I recall the Observatory to Hour Glass segment was difficult. This is what I had to deal with:
-Reverse Observatory
-Wall jumps off the palm tree to reach the crank up above the courtyard, all while sand creatures are popping up all around.
-Skip the prison battle by pushing the block to the switch, again with sand creatures popping up all around.
-Do a "Sand Wall Run" to the switch to skip pushing the block puzzle.
-Then... the elevator fight.

And the clock was always ticking.

It's hard to imagine I was even willing to deal with that, considering the run started out as something casual I did merely for replayability because the game did not have a "Hard" mode or anything... but things escalated and before I knew it I was doing some hardcore speed run. The same thing happened a year ago with God of War and I cleared it in 1:21... 55 minutes faster than this site's 2:16 run... lol.

Anyway, the ext. speed tactics vid contains the same content as my original speed tactics vid plus 10 minutes of extra footage that I consider relevant for speed runners. I don't want to see another run like VoN's. Hopefully I'll have it up on Youtube by tomorrow.

And after I finished my 1:29 I thought about improving my tactics and doing another run in probably 1:14 or lower. In the end, however, I felt like I had spent enough time with the game.

@Poesta

The Courtesan Chamber is the large palace room with the bed in the middle, just after the cutscene with Farah that starts with "Give me the dagger to undo what you have done" or something. That's what I called it, anyway.

And that's basically the early sword method I showed in my speed tactics vid, aside from fighting the enemies. I also show how to skip the Mess Hall Battle in the same vid...

@Reaver:

Good luck.

I knew of an alternate way to get up to those ledges for early sword, as well. It could be the same one, but I can not remember it very well and I recall thinking it was slower than my original.

I would recommend a Single-Segment speed run if you can not perform the "Sand Jumps" (what I called them). You will at least beat the current run on the site and I don't see how anybody could criticize you for not using them in that kind of run, and you obviously want to start now. Your call.

Singe-Segment can be easier if you avoid the hardest tricks, too. My 1:29 was segmented and I recall the Observatory to Hour Glass segment was difficult. This is what I had to deal with:
-Reverse Observatory
-Wall jumps off the palm tree to reach the crank up above the courtyard, all while sand creatures are popping up all around. 
-Skip the prison battle by pushing the block to the switch, again with sand creatures popping up all around. 
-Do a "Sand Wall Run" to the switch to skip pushing the block puzzle.
-Then... the elevator fight.

And the clock was always ticking.

It's hard to imagine I was even willing to deal with that, considering the run started out as something casual I did merely for replayability because the game did not have a "Hard" mode or anything... but things escalated and before I knew it I was doing some hardcore speed run. The same thing happened a year ago with God of War and I cleared it in 1:21... 55 minutes faster than this site's 2:16 run... lol.

Anyway, the ext. speed tactics vid contains the same content as my original speed tactics vid plus 10 minutes of extra footage that I consider relevant for speed runners. I don't want to see another run like VoN's. Hopefully I'll have it up on Youtube by tomorrow.

And after I finished my 1:29 I thought about improving my tactics and doing another run in probably 1:14 or lower. In the end, however, I felt like I had spent enough time with the game.

@Poesta

The Courtesan Chamber is the large palace room with the bed in the middle, just after the cutscene with Farah that starts with "Give me the dagger to undo what you have done" or something. That's what I called it, anyway.

And that's basically the early sword method I showed in my speed tactics vid, aside from fighting the enemies. I also show how to skip the Mess Hall Battle in the same vid...

Reaver

Edit history:

Reaver: 2008-12-15 05:44:41 pm

2008-12-15 02:13:28 pm

How did you cope with the walljumping off the palm tree? I can pull it off first time sometimes but because the tree isn't a smooth surface I find it often jumps off at angles killing the attempt. I found it easier to use a mega freeze on the sand monsters in that area as there are only 5, then save there before pulling off the bit with the palm tree. Did you do this in your run? A bit further along when you meet up with Farah again you can collect some sand to restore your tanks for the Prison section. I cant find the disk with my test of how I got the first sword early. I position myself under a beam and wallrun up at an angle forcing myself to one side of the beam allowing me to get extra height past the beam, then I jump off to the ledges which break apart. I really cant describe it that well. I'll keep looking for the disk.

EDIT: Wow I found a whole bunch of test segments still on my hard drive. I actually see why I stopped with this run. The segments I classed as passable for a test actually have unbearable problems with them. Now I recall last year trying to polish of some of these segments and epically failing due to randomness. At least this was just a test. I'll chop some of the stuff I found with some of the comedy stuff in the test segments to give you a chuckle. Its distressing that the majority of times when I pulled off a pain in the arse trick it was completely ruined by sheer randomness. Video coming soon....

EDIT 2: Well here it is.

http://www.fileupyours.com/view/220921/PoPSoT_Tests_LQ.mp4

Its only a few timesavers I found without the rewind trick. the fight scenes are the funniest. I find the enemies in this game quite easy to handle, yet for some reason when I get one thing right everything goes horribly wrong.

Starts of with a funny problem I've developed which I can't explain. I use to be able to do this trick first time everytime. Now when I do it he dies, I rewind to a point where I dont even have to press the button to release the ledge and he grabs it this time. Makes no sense to me.

@0.40 I show what Poesta was talking about plus an extra one which is a bit tricky to setup but is a time saver. I include what killed this attempt as well just for fun. Also in this section there is a palm tree and a wall relatively close too each other. I have tried to wallkick up to the higher platform and have come close maybe 3 times out of 100 attempts. Were you able to pull this off Satvara? Is it possible? You should end up at the section with the spikes on the floor if it works.

@1.46 I trigger the switch. I messed up here with the switch for the platform and had to rewind. The reason for the rewind is if you get everything smoothly done you can get to the top at the right time for you to wallrun directly over the saw to save a couple of seconds.

I include the fight scene with the Prince's dad as an example for improvements. Its ok in that I take little damage in the fight. I deal with the blue sand monsters quite well although it can be done faster. I use the fact that Farah distracts and weakens enemies, especially the blue ones, allowing me to dispatch them quicker. A problem is I should be fighting closer to the walls in order use the wall attack. At approximately 4mins in the video I use a technique that I haven't seen others use yet. If you tap forward, forward, attack you will do a big hit that can knock down your enemies in one move. This works well on the majority of blue guys in this fight but doesnt work so well later on. I guess it was because either I'm very lucky or its because they introduced them for the first time so it gave you a little advantage. As the blue guards are harder to deal with its best to use the freeze manuever on them rather than the red ones. The battle with dear old dad went well too.

@4.55 The technique I used to activate the switch quicker than in the current run. Like I said when I did this I was unaware of the rewind trick. I include the fight at the end as an example of how NOT to do it. Make sure you give them room to spread out and stay away from the walls and it'll go a lot quicker.

@7.17 The way I found quickest to get up the bird cage. It can be improved as you don't need to switch to first person view.

@8.27 The start of my test segment for getting the 1st sword earlier. I got stuck on a scarab so great start. First I get rid of Farah, I dont know if you can do it with her there and trigger a game over to the next section or not? I never tested that. The idea was to draw the sand creatures in a distance from where I wanted them but no too far so that they teleport in my way. I hit slow mo and run to where I want to get. With slow mo activated I can position myself in the correct position to pull off the trick, however it doesnt go so great, as you can see. Keep in mind this was just a test segment. I would've done a more polished one. I included more just for fun. Although I made the wallrun and jump to the ledges look easy its quite difficult to pull off from that position. I guess my excitement and nerves got the best of me and I couldn't do the simplest of jumps (11.48 its never happened before and I've done this bit 100+ times over). Slow mo also messed the music up for some reason. I also screw up an easy fight due to a bad fighting location and nerves I guess. You can make it to the wall much faster and either break it straight away without fighting anyone or you can destroy the first wave of monsters in about a minute and move on.

@14.15 Wallkicking your way up is faster as Farah stops at the top preventing you from climbing the ladder until she moves off. This fight could've gone better too. Everytime I did it prevously you only have to take out 3 sand monsters and Farah keeps the other one distracted at a distance for you to face the wall and break it.

Mess hall fight. If your gonna do this fight then trap them in between those two walls. This is only the latter half but a good example of how it should be done compared to the ones I screwed up before.

@16.08 this should've been much sooner in this video. Here after the cutscene I run up a wall and jump over the trigger for a mini cutscene showing you were to go. There is also one on the entrance to the Palace Defence System puzzle. By drawing your sword and wallflipping off the door frame you can hop over it saving a few seconds. There are also other sections in the game where you can skip this minicutscenes by jumping over them with these techniques.

Whatever you do make sure you get the best possible battles unlike what I've shown here. Use the wallattacks as much as possible against the blue guards as this is the fastest way of dealing with them. The same goes for the large armoured guards. The female sand monsters are easiest dispatched with the jump over double attack then retrieve as are the large sand monsters with the hammers. The rest you can use the jump over, attack, retrieve on them. Give them enough space as well so you don't get them bunched up preventing you from using a retrieve, or one of the others blocks your attack as can be seen in several examples I've demonstrated. Another tip with the fights is to make sure you are on even ground. Uneven ground affects your movement and can cause you to miss or end up in a position you dont want to be in.

How did you cope with the walljumping off the palm tree? I can pull it off first time sometimes but because the tree isn't a smooth surface I find it often jumps off at angles killing the attempt. I found it easier to use a mega freeze on the sand monsters in that area as there are only 5, then save there before pulling off the bit with the palm tree. Did you do this in your run? A bit further along when you meet up with Farah again you can collect some sand to restore your tanks for the Prison section. I cant find the disk with my test of how I got the first sword early. I position myself under a beam and wallrun up at an angle forcing myself to one side of the beam allowing me to get extra height past the beam, then I jump off to the ledges which break apart. I really cant describe it that well. I'll keep looking for the disk.

EDIT: Wow I found a whole bunch of test segments still on my hard drive. I actually see why I stopped with this run. The segments I classed as passable for a test actually have unbearable problems with them. Now I recall last year trying to polish of some of these segments and epically failing due to randomness. At least this was just a test. I'll chop some of the stuff I found with some of the comedy stuff in the test segments to give you a chuckle. Its distressing that the majority of times when I pulled off a pain in the arse trick it was completely ruined by sheer randomness. Video coming soon....

EDIT 2: Well here it is.

http://www.fileupyours.com/view/220921/PoPSoT_Tests_LQ.mp4

Its only a few timesavers I found without the rewind trick. the fight scenes are the funniest. I find the enemies in this game quite easy to handle, yet for some reason when I get one thing right everything goes horribly wrong.

Starts of with a funny problem I've developed which I can't explain. I use to be able to do this trick first time everytime. Now when I do it he dies, I rewind to a point where I dont even have to press the button to release the ledge and he grabs it this time. Makes no sense to me.

@0.40 I show what Poesta was talking about plus an extra one which is a bit tricky to setup but is a time saver. I include what killed this attempt as well just for fun. Also in this section there is a palm tree and a wall relatively close too each other. I have tried to wallkick up to the higher platform and have come close maybe 3 times out of 100 attempts. Were you able to pull this off Satvara? Is it possible? You should end up at the section with the spikes on the floor if it works.

@1.46 I trigger the switch. I messed up here with the switch for the platform and had to rewind. The reason for the rewind is if you get everything smoothly done you can get to the top at the right time for you to wallrun directly over the saw to save a couple of seconds.

I include the fight scene with the Prince's dad as an example for improvements. Its ok in that I take little damage in the fight. I deal with the blue sand monsters quite well although it can be done faster. I use the fact that Farah distracts and weakens enemies, especially the blue ones, allowing me to dispatch them quicker. A problem is I should be fighting closer to the walls in order  use the wall attack. At approximately 4mins in the video I use a technique that I haven't seen others use yet. If you tap forward, forward, attack you will do a big hit that can knock down your enemies in one move. This works well on the majority of blue guys in this fight but doesnt work so well later on. I guess it was because either I'm very lucky or its because they introduced them for the first time so it gave you a little advantage. As the blue guards are harder to deal with its best to use the freeze manuever on them rather than the red ones. The battle with dear old dad went well too.

@4.55 The technique I used to activate the switch quicker than in the current run. Like I said when I did this I was unaware of the rewind trick. I include the fight at the end as an example of how NOT to do it. Make sure you give them room to spread out and stay away from the walls and it'll go a lot quicker.

@7.17 The way I found quickest to get up the bird cage. It can be improved as you don't need to switch to first person view.

@8.27 The start of my test segment for getting the 1st sword earlier. I got stuck on a scarab so great start. First I get rid of Farah, I dont know if you can do it with her there and trigger a game over to the next section or not? I never tested that. The idea was to draw the sand creatures in a distance from where I wanted them but no too far so that they teleport in my way. I hit slow mo and run to where I want to get. With slow mo activated I can position myself in the correct position to pull off the trick, however it doesnt go so great, as you can see. Keep in mind this was just a test segment. I would've done a more polished one. I included more just for fun. Although I made the wallrun and jump to the ledges look easy its quite difficult to pull off from that position. I guess my excitement and nerves got the best of me and I couldn't do the simplest of jumps (11.48 its never happened before and I've done this bit 100+ times over). Slow mo also messed the music up for some reason. I also screw up an easy fight due to a bad fighting location and nerves I guess. You can make it to the wall much faster and either break it straight away without fighting anyone or you can destroy the first wave of monsters in about a minute and move on.

@14.15 Wallkicking your way up is faster as Farah stops at the top preventing you from climbing the ladder until she moves off. This fight could've gone better too. Everytime I did it prevously you only have to take out 3 sand monsters and Farah keeps the other one distracted at a distance for you to face the wall and break it.

Mess hall fight. If your gonna do this fight then trap them in between those two walls. This is only the latter half but a good example of how it should be done compared to the ones I screwed up before.

@16.08 this should've been much sooner in this video. Here after the cutscene I run up a wall and jump over the trigger for a mini cutscene showing you were to go. There is also one on the entrance to the Palace Defence System puzzle. By drawing your sword and wallflipping off the door frame you can hop over it saving a few seconds. There are also other sections in the game where you can skip this minicutscenes by jumping over them with these techniques.

Whatever you do make sure you get the best possible battles unlike what I've shown here. Use the wallattacks as much as possible against the blue guards as this is the fastest way of dealing with them. The same goes for the large armoured guards. The female sand monsters are easiest dispatched with the jump over double attack then retrieve as are the large sand monsters with the hammers. The rest you can use the jump over, attack, retrieve on them. Give them enough space as well so you don't get them bunched up preventing you from using a retrieve, or one of the others blocks your attack as can be seen in several examples I've demonstrated. Another tip with the fights is to make sure you are on even ground. Uneven ground affects your movement and can cause you to miss or end up in a position you dont want to be in.

qubit

2008-12-15 04:32:43 pm

aka theenglishman

@satvara: I will be doing 100% and any% segmented with tricks, and Ss for any% using a modified linear route with more practical shortcuts and a 10-try-allowance early DoT. Please Don't keep me in the cold here Sad

satvara

Edit history:

satvara: 2008-12-16 07:01:37 pm

2008-12-16 12:11:45 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from Reaver:

@satvara: I found it easier to use a mega freeze on the sand monsters in that area as there are only 5, then save there before pulling off the bit with the palm tree. Did you do this in your run?

No. My goal was 1:29 or lower at the final game save, and it was such my goal that my run felt more like "reach the final save in 1:29" than speed run. Though it was basically the same deal, it shows where my focus was and anything over 1:29 would have meant failure to me. Pass or fail.

And to reach 1:29, I was afforded little room for error and required to use the fastest and most difficult routes/tactics I knew of. That included avoiding excess saves, particularly saves that spawned after defeating sand creatures. I would have not reached my desired time had I done so.

That was partially what I was referring to when I wondered how I dealt with the Observatory-Hour Glass segment in my previous post. I mean, I initially decided to do a speed run for nothing more than casual fun, but then 3 months later I finish with 1:29 by doing all that hardcore crap... the irony. Grin

So, I skimmed the vid. Comments:

@1:40: You can skip the cutscene and the trap activation by jumping to the railing or something like that... I don't remember perfectly.

@5:40: That was the method used to pass that area before I figured the Sand Wallrun. I'm not surprised you found it.

@7:36: Nearly identical to the method I used in my run except for the vertical wallrun up to the ladder at 7:55.

@10:18: lol.

@10:37: Yes, that is the other method I was referring to.

@16.08: Great! My favorite part. Wink

Quote from qubit:

@satvara: I will be doing 100% and any% segmented with tricks, and Ss for any% using a modified linear route with more practical shortcuts and a 10-try-allowance early DoT. Please Don't keep me in the cold here Sad

I'm not sure what you mean by keeping you in the cold...

But I'm speaking to everyone here, directly or indirectly, and I am aware of your planned runs. Good luck with them.

Though soon I will have that extended vid up for you SDA runners, and I doubt I will be around after that.

EDIT:

PoP: The Sands of Time, Extended Speed Tactics:
Part I
Part II

And that's that.

[quote="Reaver"]
@satvara: I found it easier to use a mega freeze on the sand monsters in that area as there are only 5, then save there before pulling off the bit with the palm tree. Did you do this in your run?          
[/quote]

No. My goal was 1:29 or lower at the final game save, and it was such my goal that my run felt more like "reach the final save in 1:29" than speed run. Though it was basically the same deal, it shows where my focus was and anything over 1:29 would have meant failure to me. Pass or fail.

And to reach 1:29, I was afforded little room for error and required to use the fastest and most difficult routes/tactics I knew of. That included avoiding excess saves, particularly saves that spawned after defeating sand creatures. I would have not reached my desired time had I done so.

That was partially what I was referring to when I wondered how I dealt with the Observatory-Hour Glass segment in my previous post. I mean, I initially decided to do a speed run for nothing more than casual fun, but then 3 months later I finish with 1:29 by doing all that hardcore crap... the irony. ;D

So, I skimmed the vid. Comments:

@1:40: You can skip the cutscene and the trap activation by jumping to the railing or something like that... I don't remember perfectly.

@5:40: That was the method used to pass that area before I figured the Sand Wallrun. I'm not surprised you found it.

@7:36: Nearly identical to the method I used in my run except for the vertical wallrun up to the ladder at 7:55.

@10:18: lol.

@10:37: Yes, that is the other method I was referring to.

@16.08: Great! My favorite part. ;)

[quote="qubit"]
@satvara: I will be doing 100% and any% segmented with tricks, and Ss for any% using a modified linear route with more practical shortcuts and a 10-try-allowance early DoT.  Please Don't keep me in the cold here :(          
[/quote]

I'm not sure what you mean by keeping you in the cold...

But I'm speaking to everyone here, directly or indirectly, and I am aware of your planned runs. Good luck with them.

Though soon I will have that extended vid up for you SDA runners, and I doubt I will be around after that.

EDIT:

PoP: The Sands of Time, Extended Speed Tactics:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NidgDjB5D40]Part I[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwCloulJzg]Part II[/url]

And that's that.

qubit

Edit history:

qubit: 2008-12-16 07:27:56 pm

2008-12-16 07:04:40 pm

aka theenglishman

@satvara: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=NidgDjB5D40 - seriously dude, what the fuck did you do to this poor game? Wink

Maybe if you add explanations for each trick in the video description, that would help me out a lot.

I finally have some RCA splitters, and they're giving me amazing quality (at 30 fps which is what the game runs natively at anyway). I've been doing some more research on the route I'm taking for segment 1:

- If given the option to jump or wallrun, I will ALWAYS jump, which is must faster than wallrunning. The two gaps one right after the other followed by a ladder are jumpable (the first is sort of a leap-of-faith while the second is easy), etc.
- Reaver's idea of wallrunning to the other side near the beginning of segment 1 is actually slightly slower because of how the Prince moves. It would mean a very awkward slomo wallrun cancel for me and also the Prince is constantly being bombarded by barriers along the way to his goal. All in all, it was a great idea but slower.
Redundant thanks to satvara's tricks in his new YouTube video.
- Jumping from the last pillar onto the ledge puzzle is most definitely faster, thanks to Reaver. I will use it in my new segment 1.
- I found two ways to do the last section before the end of the segment faster: a) you can jump straight to the second pillar from the hole in the wall, or b) from your starting position, wallrun along the wall right next to the hole then walljump-slomocancel onto the last pillar after about five steps. This will also cancel the walljump slomo in segment 2. Also made redundant. None of my ideas are surviving Sad

Turns out I'm not leaving till tomorrow so I thought I'd leave you with this video of me experimenting with route ideas in a rough test segment (just under 3 minutes even when done sloppily and with a ton of mistakes, and also showing the brilliant video quality of my new splitters :D). http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1RUTP2KH

@satvara: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=NidgDjB5D40 - seriously dude, what the fuck did you do to this poor game? ;)  Maybe if you add explanations for each trick in the video description, that would help me out a lot.

I finally have some RCA splitters, and they're giving me amazing quality (at 30 fps which is what the game runs natively at anyway).  I've been doing some more research on the route I'm taking for segment 1:

- If given the option to jump or wallrun, I will ALWAYS jump, which is must faster than wallrunning.  The two gaps one right after the other followed by a ladder are jumpable (the first is sort of a leap-of-faith while the second is easy), etc.
[s]- Reaver's idea of wallrunning to the other side near the beginning of segment 1 is actually slightly slower because of how the Prince moves.  It would mean a very awkward slomo wallrun cancel for me and also the Prince is constantly being bombarded by barriers along the way to his goal.  All in all, it was a great idea but slower.
[/s] Redundant thanks to satvara's tricks in his new YouTube video.
- Jumping from the last pillar onto the ledge puzzle is most definitely faster, thanks to Reaver.  I will use it in my new segment 1.
- [s]I found two ways to do the last section before the end of the segment faster: a) you can jump straight to the second pillar from the hole in the wall, or b) from your starting position, wallrun along the wall right next to the hole then walljump-slomocancel onto the last pillar after about five steps.  This will also cancel the walljump slomo in segment 2.[/s]  Also made redundant.  None of my ideas are surviving :(

Turns out I'm not leaving till tomorrow so I thought I'd leave you with this video of me experimenting with route ideas in a rough test segment (just under 3 minutes even when done sloppily and with a ton of mistakes, and also showing the brilliant video quality of my new splitters :D).  http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1RUTP2KH

Reaver

2008-12-17 05:21:45 am

@Satvara -I dont believe it. The First trick you used I tried over and over again and I never got it. Was it because you changed the angle and move slightly off to the left more? The courtesan chamber trick, I cant believe I missed that. I actually wasted a lot of time looking for a trick like that and I missed such a simple one. The bit when you wallkicked to the spike platform @1.35 is what I was asking about in an earlier post. I came close to pulling this off but never managed it. @3.10 I've used this trick also. @4.00 I tried that and failed miserably lol. If only I stuck at it. @4.20 I take it that was just to show you can get past the bird without it stopping you? @7.34 you trap Farah outside the mess hall so it doesn't game over from ignoring this fight if I understand correctly? That allows you enough time to climb the scaffolding? @9.10 I use that trick too. @9.38 you use that wallflip technique again to get onto the shortcut. before you get into this section you walk through a doorway that triggers a mini cutscene of the area. You can use that technique to flip over the trigger skipping it out and saving a few seconds. In the p2 of your tactics :2.16 didn't know you trigger her speech whilst in the save game thing. Very nice find there. @3.36 you just randomly died. What happened? @5.04 you use that flip thing again to get on the rail. I always did it by using slow mo and wall running shortly onto it. Your method is a lot easier. @6.05 you wallkick off that palm tree? There is one on the other side almost in the same position but closer to the switch you have to turn. I guess this one is alot easier to use. Nice trick in the prison. @9.27 Nice find. Once I restart my run on my christmas holidays I'll start looking for some more. I've already thought of some that might shave some seconds off in places. I just need the time to test them.

@Satvara -I dont believe it. The First trick you used I tried over and over again and I never got it. Was it because you changed the angle and move slightly off to the left more? The courtesan chamber trick, I cant believe I missed that. I actually wasted a lot of time looking for a trick like that and I missed such a simple one. The bit when you wallkicked to the spike platform @1.35 is what I was asking about in an earlier post. I came close to pulling this off but never managed it. @3.10 I've used this trick also. @4.00 I tried that and failed miserably lol. If only I stuck at it. @4.20 I take it that was just to show you can get past the bird without it stopping you? @7.34 you trap Farah outside the mess hall so it doesn't game over from ignoring this fight if I understand correctly? That allows you enough time to climb the scaffolding? @9.10 I use that trick too. @9.38 you use that wallflip technique again to get onto the shortcut. before you get into this section you walk through a doorway that triggers a mini cutscene of the area. You can use that technique to flip over the trigger skipping it out and saving a few seconds.  In the p2 of your tactics :2.16 didn't know you trigger her speech whilst in the save game thing. Very nice find there. @3.36 you just randomly died. What happened? @5.04 you use that flip thing again to get on the rail. I always did it by using slow mo and wall running shortly onto it. Your method is a lot easier. @6.05 you wallkick off that palm tree? There is one on the other side almost in the same position but closer to the switch you have to turn. I guess this one is alot easier to use. Nice trick in the prison. @9.27 Nice find. Once I restart my run on my christmas holidays I'll start looking for some more. I've already thought of some that might shave some seconds off in places. I just need the time to test them.