PORTAL (Source)

2007-10-31 08:17:11 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

I'm not sure how faking it would be possible. When you save your game (on the 360 anyways), a "saved" dialoge pops up, so you couldn't just edit from save points. You'd have the "saved" overlay at wierd times so it'd be obvious. And as far as the loading points go, it seems to keep your exact position on most of them. that'd be pretty hard to align correctly.

Lifts are a good place to "cheat" and segment it. Go into lift, quick save, reload and restart recording. That'd only work if you never released demos though, because mashing two Source Engine demos together is hard.

Chomp

2007-10-31 09:02:07 pm

woot

Portal Update Released
October 30, 2007, 4:50 pm - Jason Ruymen

Updates to Portal have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:

Portal
Optimized Portal demos to have fewer issues when going through actual Portals

o40

2007-10-31 09:24:30 pm

Swedish Fish

Quote:

I noticed you didn;t use this little trick in your SS run groobo. It saves a small amount of time in chamber 12, instead of having to fling yourself up to the cube.

http://files.mythica.org/halo/highimpacthalo/highspeed/Portal12.mov

Hmm, how do you do that? It looks like a portal on a black surface.

http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap193844oh5.png

SnappyCrunch

2007-10-31 10:19:27 pm

Who needs sleep?

Quote:

CMiller: Nice find. I tried to do that trick a couple of days ago, but couldn't find the correct angle and thought that it's impossible.

On the PC version, it is impossible. Here's a screenshot of the inside of the exit on Testchamber 12 (PC version).

Siyko

2007-10-31 10:25:30 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

ya, i dunno if thats the x360 version or something, but after looking at that shot through noclip... its defienetly not possible in my version. Theres a 'no-portal' section int he first 2 meters from the door

groobo

2007-10-31 10:28:43 pm

boss

Is there any way to acquire the new patch without steam :P?

CMiller

Edit history:

CMiller: 2007-10-31 10:53:12 pm

2007-10-31 10:52:39 pm

Quote:

Lifts are a good place to "cheat" and segment it. Go into lift, quick save, reload and restart recording. That'd only work if you never released demos though, because mashing two Source Engine demos together is hard.

That won't work because a transparent "Saved" will appear in the corner, and the audio will not match, especially if GlaDOS is talking. At least on the 360 version.

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2007-10-31 11:16:49 pm

2007-10-31 11:07:15 pm

boss

Quote:

Lifts are a good place to "cheat" and segment it. Go into lift, quick save, reload and restart recording. That'd only work if you never released demos though, because mashing two Source Engine demos together is hard.

Well, you don't even have to quick save while recording. Record up to a certain loading screen, then load the map you just finished save at the end of the elevator ride with about the same position you had while recording, hit record and redo the second part as much as you want to. When you're done, just merge all parts into one.

Here are some things against a ss run done on the pc version of the game:

-you can walk for a short while during the loading screen
-you can move your pov during the loading screen
-whatever sound effect/music is playing while the loading screen appears, it stops immediately after the next map loads up
-even if you shoot a portal at a portal-unfriendly surface just before the loading screen, the effect will dissapear immediately after the next map loads up

So there's no way to prove that it was done in a ss, unless demos work properly right now. Or maybe the source avi files could be some kind of proof (most reliable atm)?

[quote]
Lifts are a good place to "cheat" and segment it. Go into lift, quick save, reload and restart recording. That'd only work if you never released demos though, because mashing two Source Engine demos together is hard.[/quote]
Well, you don't even have to quick save while recording. Record up to a certain loading screen, then load the map you just finished save at the end of the elevator ride with about the same position you had while recording, hit record and redo the second part as much as you want to. When you're done, just merge all parts into one.

Here are some things against a ss run done on the pc version of the game:

-you can walk for a short while during the loading screen
-you can move your pov during the loading screen
-whatever sound effect/music is playing while the loading screen appears, it stops immediately after the next map loads up
-even if you shoot a portal at a portal-unfriendly surface just before the loading screen, the effect will dissapear immediately after the next map loads up

So there's no way to prove that it was done in a ss, unless demos work properly right now. Or maybe the source avi files could be some kind of proof (most reliable atm)?

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2007-10-31 11:23:15 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

you can just do something like "stop;save 1" it'll stop the demo then immediately save. Then just load and record the next demo.

If you don't get one demo file I think you'd a second webcam video.

Chomp

2007-10-31 11:45:42 pm

woot

Did this recent update noobify Portal? I noticed on chamber 15, right at the beginning, that when I go through the portal to get momentum over the barrier it now sort of PULLS me towards the portal on the ground...

EO

2007-10-31 11:52:01 pm

Ohai

No, that's always been a feature. Check your gameplay options. You can turn that on or off.

Siyko

Edit history:

Siyko: 2007-11-01 02:17:09 am

2007-10-31 11:52:56 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

every patch seems to turn on 'portal funnel', which is an option that does just that. Totally screws me up personally.

As for verifying a SS run, the demos would be created throughout the run, and would have a very specific 'date/time created' tag on the file's metadata. This is diffiuclt to edit, and very hard to spoof (since they will all line up to the second with the recorded video of the run, it would take some serious determination to spoof these demos).

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2007-11-02 05:45:10 am

2007-11-02 05:44:27 am

boss

It seems that you can't manipulate the source avi files. They're always encoded with the fraps codec and if you try to merge two of them into one (direct stream copy) the compression changes to uncompressed rgb. You can't compress files using the fraps codec which are already encoded with fraps. Oh, and fraps stops recording to one file and switches to another if the file size gets to 3,9gb, so you can't just give a couple of small avi files as a proof. So make sure to keep your source avi files :P.

Anyway, my best time atm is 18:53 but I'm sure I can get it lower than that.

Ekelbatzen

2007-11-02 11:15:43 am

Hi, I like portal very much and I'm trying my very first speedrun in portal(segmented) Cheesy

.
After the loading screens I did immediate saves and I record the runs from loading screen to loading screen (only with fraps yet).
I upload every run I do on a (german) video portal . I have no idea if i have the best time or if something is against the rules for speedruns, but you can see for yourself Wink

.
atm I'm a little stuck at chamber 12, I try to throw the box on the button and the trick from CMiller doesnt work.

flechette

2007-11-02 12:18:50 pm

lalala

Quote:

You can't compress files using the fraps codec which are already encoded with fraps.

Erm, I use VirtualDub and compress everything that fraps does. I thought fraps basically saved raw data?

Quote:

Anyway, my best time atm is 18:53 but I'm sure I can get it lower than that.

Awesome time. Cheesy

-flech

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2007-11-02 04:10:18 pm

2007-11-02 04:07:14 pm

boss

Quote:

Erm, I use VirtualDub and compress everything that fraps does. I thought fraps basically saved raw data?

What I meant is that fraps records and compresses the files at the same time. Fraps uses its own compression codec called fps1 (fourcc). If you try to merge two of such files into one, you'll get a "uncompressed video" file. There's no way that I know of to do that and compress them with the fraps codec afterwards. If you still don't get what I mean: Whoever will verify it will look at the source avi files infos. If all files are compressed with the fps1 codec and all files are exactly 3,9gb in size (EXCEPT the very last file), the video is legitimate. Demos are super easy to false btw, so that's pretty much the only reliable way to prove that a ss run was done in a ss.

djcj

2007-11-02 04:16:40 pm

Open the first Fraps AVI segment in VirtualDubMod, then append as much segments as you want and when you save the file, change the mode to "Direct Stream Copy". Then you have a single AVI file with Fraps codec.

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2007-11-02 04:29:26 pm

2007-11-02 04:26:14 pm

boss

I get a Uncompressed RGB file when I do that :-X.

edit: It shows that it was encoded with fraps only if you append those files with vdub but then the sound will be fucked up. If you try to do that with avisynth, it says that it's an uncompressed rgb file.

djcj

2007-11-02 05:44:21 pm

Of course it is uncompressed when you do it with Avisynth.
Avisynth always produces uncompressed videos (well, but you can change the colorspace, e.g. from RGB to YV12).
But I wonder that VirtualDubMod will mess up the sound, because the sound is uncompressed PCM.

groobo

2007-11-02 07:04:46 pm

boss

Shit, the source files can be also easily manipulated. So there's NO way to prove a ss run is legitimate. I have to drop this project :(.

SnappyCrunch

Edit history:

SnappyCrunch: 2007-11-02 07:39:19 pm

2007-11-02 07:38:37 pm

Who needs sleep?

Quote:

Shit, the source files can be also easily manipulated. So there's NO way to prove a ss run is legitimate. I have to drop this project :(.

Webcam. Put it over your shoulder.

Or possibly a Notary. Get him/her to watch you do it.

flechette

2007-11-02 08:00:34 pm

lalala

I don't see why you'd have to drop running it on a PC? There are plenty of games on here that were recorded via fraps and were submitted, reviewed, accepted, and published just fine. Take the Diablo runs, for example. Even though those are segmented with the INTENTION of re-recording bad runs/drops out, they have been accepted. Is there some bigger problem we're not aware of that's preventing you from working on a SS run?

-flech

groobo

2007-11-02 11:05:01 pm

boss

Take in note that the diablo runs ARE segmented and a ss run for any diablo game would be as easily fakable as a ss run for portal is. The only ss run up on the site, that I can think of right now, that could be easily fakable is the hl1 run (I'm sure it isn't a fake, just want to prove a point here). I've sent Mike a pm, we'll see what kind of proof he wants from me.

CMiller

Edit history:

CMiller: 2007-11-02 11:30:40 pm

2007-11-02 11:29:19 pm

So you're saying that Speed demos archive WOULD NOT accept a single segment run if they in theory can't be PROVEN to be legitimate? I have a feeling if you give me two videos, on edited and one not, I could easily tell you which is which. Does the sound not restart on the PC version when you load a game?

You seem awfully worried about this groobo. If your run is legit, then there shouldn;t be a problem releasing/verifying it.

ad3n

2007-11-03 12:54:33 am

rawr

He's not worrying about his run, he just doesn't want to waste the time to legit it if in fact someone can perfect everything, splice it together and claim SS. It would more-than-likely nullify everything he worked for. I can absolutely see that take on this.