Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness

2010-10-27 12:46:25 am

Just learned, Teddiursa needs 6 hyper mode calls, not 4. Essentially I'm going to have to fight one extra trainer in agate. But that shouldn't be a problem, Teddiursa's gauge goes down really slow and I can't afford to buy a single scent in this run, so it's my only option.

That's all i have to report for now.

Hariyama465

Edit history:

Hariyama465: 2010-10-27 12:51:26 am

Hariyama465: 2010-10-27 12:50:14 am

2010-10-27 12:49:22 am

Quote from Toothache:

I know you don't find out a Pokemon's nature until the second bar is uncovered, but you can make an educated guess by stat checking. Set yourself a minimum stat requirement for important snags, like Houndour, and try and stick to that as best as you can. Expect the soft-resetting on Pokemon you want to use for the run to take ages. I got lucky with Colosseum's first soft-resetting segment, since the Espeon was caught in 4 retries, but Croconaw took a lot longer, especially since I was only checking females for their stats (damn Venus)

I know. It's going to take forever. It took 4 (roughly) nonstop hours to get a Modest Eevee. At least it has good IVs from what I can tell.

I figure, Houndour's got a catch rate of 120, giving me only a 15.7% chance of catching it at full heal with a pokeball. After that I gotta make sure its got decent stats.

But that's not what I'm worried about. Catching Greevil's birds with one Ultra Ball each is what I'm worried about.

Also, past houndour should probably be "cake" since I won't have to worry about gauges or natures or anything like that. I just reset if I don't catch.

Also, don't you get Espeon from the start in colosseum?

[quote="Toothache"]I know you don't find out a Pokemon's nature until the second bar is uncovered, but you can make an educated guess by stat checking. Set yourself a minimum stat requirement for important snags, like Houndour, and try and stick to that as best as you can. Expect the soft-resetting on Pokemon you want to use for the run to take ages. I got lucky with Colosseum's first soft-resetting segment, since the Espeon was caught in 4 retries, but Croconaw took a lot longer, especially since I was only checking females for their stats (damn Venus)[/quote]

I know. It's going to take forever. It took 4 (roughly) nonstop hours to get a Modest Eevee. At least it has good IVs from what I can tell.

I figure, Houndour's got a catch rate of 120, giving me only a 15.7% chance of catching it at full heal with a pokeball. After that I gotta make sure its got decent stats.

But that's not what I'm worried about. Catching Greevil's birds with one Ultra Ball each is what I'm worried about.

Also, past houndour should probably be "cake" since I won't have to worry about gauges or natures or anything like that. I just reset if I don't catch.

Also, don't you get Espeon from the start in colosseum?

Toothache

2010-10-27 05:19:40 am

Let the music play!

Yes, but you still need to wait for the intro cutscene to play each time, and I decided to save time by not checking the stats until after the first save (since the game timer runs even while in the menu)

Hariyama465

2010-10-27 11:30:04 am

Quote from Toothache:

Yes, but you still need to wait for the intro cutscene to play each time, and I decided to save time by not checking the stats until after the first save (since the game timer runs even while in the menu)

Yeah that's what I did too. My first segment is start new game, input name, watch intro, do intro battle, then IMMEDIATELY save once I get control. I check Eevee's nature after save, when I'm not recording. (I finally got Modest, with nice IVs to boot!)

Magicsgame

2010-10-29 09:47:13 pm

I look forward to the 100% snags, but I highly doubt that you're going to catch all of Greevil's Pokemon with 1 Ultra Ball each.

Assuming that you catch each Pokemon instantly like you said, you have a .8% chance of catching each bird, a 12.3% chance of catching Tauros and Exeggutor, and a 16.8% chance of catching Rhydon. That comes out to a 1.30134E-06, or around a 1/768,500 chance.

On a brighter note, you have a 16.8% chance of catching that Houndour in one Poke Ball.

Hariyama465

2010-10-30 10:10:06 am

Already caught the Houndour. It's Mild, too.

As far as Greevil's pokemon go, I'm making an exception for him (and possibly Eldes cause he has four) in which I basically use Shadow Half on him to reduce his birds' HP down as much as I can.

I think, if I do that, it's not too unreasonable to try and get them all in one ball each.

Nightmare

Edit history:

Nightmare: 2010-10-30 01:22:05 pm

2010-10-30 01:20:54 pm

Quote from CaptainYama:

Already caught the Houndour. It's Mild, too.

As far as Greevil's pokemon go, I'm making an exception for him (and possibly Eldes cause he has four) in which I basically use Shadow Half on him to reduce his birds' HP down as much as I can.

I think, if I do that, it's not too unreasonable to try and get them all in one ball each.

That'd be nice, but the birds are ball busters. LOL

That segment will probably be THE hardest to be fair. Don't be surprised if it takes a month or more.

-James

Hariyama465

Edit history:

Hariyama465: 2010-11-20 03:26:36 pm

2010-11-20 03:18:26 pm

What's up, everyone?

Just popped into say that this run is not dead, far from it actually. See, 3 weeks back was when my DVD recorder crapped out and I lost a segment (Shadow Snorunt).

I talked to Mike and he gave me permission to re-do it, but even then I felt heavily discouraged, since up until then the run had some pretty insane amounts of luck and having a missing segment was a blemish on an otherwise good run. However, this turned out to be a stroke of luck, as it allowed me to really take a step back and examine this game a bit further.

This game sucks. There's a reason no one's tried to speedrun it yet. The Pokemon available to you have multiple problems, ranging from the fact that most of them suck or that they evolve too late, but I think some of the fault lies within the runners. We haven't exactly been looking at this game from the proper angle.

What I'm getting at is, it's not about using good Pokemon, but rather, using Pokemon that your enemy is weak to.

At first we came up with the JoltDoom combination, which I demolished in my practice runs as not hitting hard enough. Jolteon may be fast but most of the enemies you fight in this game are actually pretty slow, and his 110 SpA as well as shitty ass Thundershock is not nearly enough to go through this game.

So from there I proposed EspeonDoom combo, which was pretty good, but had severe problems of its own. Having Psychic Espeon solved the damage issue, but Houndoom and Espeon replaced JoltDoom's issues with issues of their own. For one, you're using two Special based Pokemon, which means you'd be walled by Special Walls which there are a few in this game. Secondly, you're completely walled by darks, and to add insult to injury this game throws a few Sharpedos/Carvanhas on you which wall EspeonDoom completely.

I spent the last 3 weeks playtesting a combination I never thought would be this successful--Espeon + Breloom.

This combination, at a glance, has a series of problems. You get Shroomish at 15, but you'll want to get him to 23 and evolve him before the Exol fight, since he'll be completely useless there and it will end your run unless you have Mach Punch, which will completely shred through Exol.

The fact that you have to gain 7 levels aside, you get Shroomish at the END of the Desert Lair, meaning you have to fight a couple of extra battles to get his EXP up and his Shadow Gauge down. However, this is probably canceled out by the fact that you don't have to train Houndour in the lair anymore, since you're not using him, so the time you would have spent training Houndour goes towards Shroomish instead.

After that, you're still dealing with Breloom's bad speed and Mach Punch, which--while definitely powerful--still has its own issues and sometimes doesnt do enough on certain Pokemon.

That's at a glance, though, after playtesting for 3 weeks I can tell you with absolute certainty that Espeon + Breloom completely demolish this game.

For one, Shroomish gets EXP like a fucking freight train. Breloom too. They both get EXP at a much faster rate than Houndour and Houndoom. That means you really only have to fight one or two extra fights to get Shroomish to 23. In fact, from JUST fighting Tekot + Naps + Lovrina in the Lair, you get Shroomish enough EXP to get him from 15 to 19!

After that, Breloom will completely demolish Exol with his Mach Punch. It lets him OHKO Loudred which neither Espeon or Houndour can do, and then Mach Punch Raichu before he gets a chance to act, preventing a dig or something stupid like that.

Let me make this perfectly clear, having a priority move goes a long way in this run. And in fact, just the fact that Mach Punch is a priority move to begin with makes Breloom a force in this run. It's a priority move making him the fastest thing on the market, and it plays off of STAB and a 130 Attack stat. Which reminds me, with Breloom and Espeon you're using both a Physical guy and a Special guy, meaning you're not going to be walled by anything. Fighting and Psychic have complete neutral coverage on everything except for Ghost which Espeon hits for super effective with Bite.

But it doesn't end there. There are quite a few Water/Ground as well as Rock/Ground you come up against, and for these Mega Drain actually surprisingly does quite well against them, even though Breloom's got shit 60 SpA, the 4x weakness really goes a long way. Furthermore, for everything that resists Fighting, Headbutt coming off of his monstrous Attack stat is actually stronger than his Mach Punch on things that take neutral damage.

Finally, to add icing on the cake, Breloom learns Sky Uppercut. At 85 base damage it's only 10 points less than Houndoom's Flamethrower, which is probably made up for the fact that Breloom has 20 more Attack than Houndoom's Special Attack. You would think Sky Uppercut is useless since Breloom is so slow but actually in my playtest most of the guys I fought were actually slower than Breloom, and his Sky Uppercut really hurts.

As far as the Cipher Admins go, Breloom actually wrecks all of them. Snattle was a huge issue before. If you were using JoltDoom he walled you completely, and if you were using EspeonDoom he still gave you trouble because his Pokemon were Special Walls and you had a Fire type going up against Lanturn and Quagsire. However, Breloom comes in and Mega Drains Quagsire, then Mach punches him. Lanturn's taken out by Espeon and both of them can't really do anything to either of my Pokemon. After that, Castform's taken out with Mach Punch while I catch Lunatone, and Metang is taken down by Mach Punch/Bite for an easy win.

Gorigan's even easier, he completely owns JoltDoom, but with Espeon and Breloom he's cake. Lairon's probably uses Protect on the first turn, but Sealo is 2x weak to Sky Uppercut and I go before it, meaning I can kill it before it uses Earthquake. Slowking comes in and is weak to Bite, while Lairon is 4x weak to Mach Punch so that takes care of that. Ursaring's also slower than Breloom meaning Sky Uppercut is going to more than kill it. Hypno and Primeape are both caught so I don't have to worry about them.

The thing is, what I said earlier is true--we weren't looking at this game from the proper angle. In a NORMAL, competitive situation Electric and Ice should be the types you're using, because BoltBeam is a great combo, right? But this isn't a normal situation, you have to tailor your Pokemon and strategies based on the Pokemon your opponent is going to throw at you. If you take a look at a FAQ for this game, and look at the route that I made a few pages back, youll notice that a sizable chunk of enemies you face in this game are actually weak to Mach Punch.

There are more than a few trainers who have entire teams, half of them weak to Breloom, the other half weak to Espeon. It's kind of funny how that turns out.

Breloom is a better choice, but only in a segmented run. Sky Uppercut doesn't have 100% accuracy, and I do rely on resetting until my opponent does what I want sometimes, but still, for every instance where Houndoom would be better than Breloom, there's like 2 where Breloom trumps Houndoom.

I'm going to do a bit more playtesting with Breloom before I re-start the run, but this revelation has really motivated me to get back to this game and produce a better run than ever before. With Houndoom, I really had to manipulate luck in a lot of the fights, but with Breloom the only luck manipulation I have to do is with the actual catching of Shadow Pokemon.

Anyway hopefully this time my DVD recorder won't crap out on me, and I'll carefully check every attempt to make sure I don't have any missing segments.

What's up, everyone?

Just popped into say that this run is not dead, far from it actually. See, 3 weeks back was when my DVD recorder crapped out and I lost a segment (Shadow Snorunt).

I talked to Mike and he gave me permission to re-do it, but even then I felt heavily discouraged, since up until then the run had some pretty insane amounts of luck and having a missing segment was a blemish on an otherwise good run. However, this turned out to be a stroke of luck, as it allowed me to really take a step back and examine this game a bit further.

This game sucks. There's a reason no one's tried to speedrun it yet. The Pokemon available to you have multiple problems, ranging from the fact that most of them suck or that they evolve too late, but I think some of the fault lies within the runners. We haven't exactly been looking at this game from the proper angle.

What I'm getting at is, it's not about using good Pokemon, but rather, using Pokemon that your [b]enemy is weak to[/b].

At first we came up with the JoltDoom combination, which I demolished in my practice runs as not hitting hard enough. Jolteon may be fast but most of the enemies you fight in this game are actually pretty slow, and his 110 SpA as well as shitty ass Thundershock is not nearly enough to go through this game.

So from there I proposed EspeonDoom combo, which was pretty good, but had severe problems of its own. Having Psychic Espeon solved the damage issue, but Houndoom and Espeon replaced JoltDoom's issues with issues of their own. For one, you're using two Special based Pokemon, which means you'd be walled by Special Walls which there are a few in this game. Secondly, you're completely walled by darks, and to add insult to injury this game throws a few Sharpedos/Carvanhas on you which wall EspeonDoom completely.

I spent the last 3 weeks playtesting a combination I never thought would be this successful--Espeon + Breloom.

This combination, at a glance, has a series of problems. You get Shroomish at 15, but you'll want to get him to 23 and evolve him before the Exol fight, since he'll be completely useless there and it will end your run unless you have Mach Punch, which will completely shred through Exol.

The fact that you have to gain 7 levels aside, you get Shroomish at the END of the Desert Lair, meaning you have to fight a couple of extra battles to get his EXP up and his Shadow Gauge down. However, this is probably canceled out by the fact that you don't have to train Houndour in the lair anymore, since you're not using him, so the time you would have spent training Houndour goes towards Shroomish instead.

After that, you're still dealing with Breloom's bad speed and Mach Punch, which--while definitely powerful--still has its own issues and sometimes doesnt do enough on certain Pokemon.

That's at a glance, though, after playtesting for 3 weeks I can tell you with absolute certainty that Espeon + Breloom completely demolish this game.

For one, Shroomish gets EXP like a fucking freight train. Breloom too. They both get EXP at a much faster rate than Houndour and Houndoom. That means you really only have to fight one or two extra fights to get Shroomish to 23. In fact, from JUST fighting Tekot + Naps + Lovrina in the Lair, you get Shroomish enough EXP to get him from 15 to 19!

After that, Breloom will completely demolish Exol with his Mach Punch. It lets him OHKO Loudred which neither Espeon or Houndour can do, and then Mach Punch Raichu before he gets a chance to act, preventing a dig or something stupid like that.

Let me make this perfectly clear, having a priority move goes a [b]long[/b] way in this run. And in fact, just the fact that Mach Punch is a priority move to begin with makes Breloom a force in this run. It's a priority move making him the fastest thing on the market, and it plays off of STAB and a 130 Attack stat. Which reminds me, with Breloom and Espeon you're using both a Physical guy and a Special guy, meaning you're not going to be walled by anything. Fighting and Psychic have complete neutral coverage on everything except for Ghost which Espeon hits for super effective with Bite.

But it doesn't end there. There are quite a few Water/Ground as well as Rock/Ground you come up against, and for these Mega Drain actually surprisingly does quite well against them, even though Breloom's got shit 60 SpA, the 4x weakness really goes a long way. Furthermore, for everything that resists Fighting, Headbutt coming off of his monstrous Attack stat is actually stronger than his Mach Punch on things that take neutral damage.

Finally, to add icing on the cake, Breloom learns Sky Uppercut. At 85 base damage it's only 10 points less than Houndoom's Flamethrower, which is probably made up for the fact that Breloom has 20 more Attack than Houndoom's Special Attack. You would think Sky Uppercut is useless since Breloom is so slow but actually in my playtest most of the guys I fought were actually slower than Breloom, and his Sky Uppercut really hurts.

As far as the Cipher Admins go, Breloom actually wrecks all of them. Snattle was a huge issue before. If you were using JoltDoom he walled you completely, and if you were using EspeonDoom he still gave you trouble because his Pokemon were Special Walls and you had a Fire type going up against Lanturn and Quagsire. However, Breloom comes in and Mega Drains Quagsire, then Mach punches him. Lanturn's taken out by Espeon and both of them can't really do anything to either of my Pokemon. After that, Castform's taken out with Mach Punch while I catch Lunatone, and Metang is taken down by Mach Punch/Bite for an easy win.

Gorigan's even easier, he completely owns JoltDoom, but with Espeon and Breloom he's cake. Lairon's probably uses Protect on the first turn, but Sealo is 2x weak to Sky Uppercut and I go before it, meaning I can kill it before it uses Earthquake. Slowking comes in and is weak to Bite, while Lairon is 4x weak to Mach Punch so that takes care of that. Ursaring's also slower than Breloom meaning Sky Uppercut is going to more than kill it. Hypno and Primeape are both caught so I don't have to worry about them.

The thing is, what I said earlier is true--we weren't looking at this game from the proper angle. In a NORMAL, competitive situation Electric and Ice should be the types you're using, because BoltBeam is a great combo, right? But this isn't a normal situation, you have to tailor your Pokemon and strategies based on the Pokemon your opponent is going to throw at you. If you take a look at a FAQ for this game, and look at the route that I made a few pages back, youll notice that a sizable chunk of enemies you face in this game are actually weak to Mach Punch.

There are more than a few trainers who have entire teams, half of them weak to Breloom, the other half weak to Espeon. It's kind of funny how that turns out.

Breloom is a better choice, but only in a segmented run. Sky Uppercut doesn't have 100% accuracy, and I do rely on resetting until my opponent does what I want sometimes, but still, for every instance where Houndoom would be better than Breloom, there's like 2 where Breloom trumps Houndoom.

I'm going to do a bit more playtesting with Breloom before I re-start the run, but this revelation has really motivated me to get back to this game and produce a better run than ever before. With Houndoom, I really had to manipulate luck in a lot of the fights, but with Breloom the only luck manipulation I have to do is with the actual catching of Shadow Pokemon.

Anyway hopefully this time my DVD recorder won't crap out on me, and I'll carefully check every attempt to make sure I don't have any missing segments.

TheMG2

2010-11-20 07:30:15 pm

LOL, I remember suggesting using Breloom early on for other reasons.

Overshadowing for the epic win.

And I remember that I used Breloom for my normal file and Sky Uppercut is epic win.

Hariyama465

Edit history:

Hariyama465: 2010-11-20 09:11:59 pm

2010-11-20 09:09:07 pm

Yeah I immediately disregarded Shroomish because it came so late in the lab and only at level 15, but that thing gains so much EXP so quickly, it's not even a problem.

I mean just the fact that you have priority and you're guaranteed to go first is so reassuring, since hardly any enemies in this game have priority moves, and sky uppercut does tons of damage on everything.

Starting over also allows me to correct the few mistakes I had in the Espeon/Houndoom run, I just hope I don't put new mistakes in their place =P

Oh yeah and come to think of it, Effect Spore is awesome. A lot of things in my playtests ended up falling asleep which was really nice for me. Espeon has Leftovers so its HP is never really an issue, and with Breloom I noticed that a few times when my HP was low the next opponent would have like, a Graveler that I Mega Drain'd to get my HP back up.

Another thing I noticed with this playtest is that I ended up getting a lot more potions than I used. Espeon/Breloom hardly ever got hit really hard in this playtest, and every time their HP ended up going low there was a healing station nearby to help, so I don't know if I'll end up purchasing as many Hyper Potions, since the game gives you so many in chests.

Yeah I immediately disregarded Shroomish because it came so late in the lab and only at level 15, but that thing gains so much EXP so quickly, it's not even a problem.

I mean just the fact that you have priority and you're guaranteed to go first is so reassuring, since hardly any enemies in this game have priority moves, and sky uppercut does tons of damage on everything.

Starting over also allows me to correct the few mistakes I had in the Espeon/Houndoom run, I just hope I don't put new mistakes in their place =P

Oh yeah and come to think of it, Effect Spore is awesome. A lot of things in my playtests ended up falling asleep which was really nice for me. Espeon has Leftovers so its HP is never really an issue, and with Breloom I noticed that a few times when my HP was low the next opponent would have like, a Graveler that I Mega Drain'd to get my HP back up.

Another thing I noticed with this playtest is that I ended up getting a lot more potions than I used. Espeon/Breloom hardly ever got hit really hard in this playtest, and every time their HP ended up going low there was a healing station nearby to help, so I don't know if I'll end up purchasing as many Hyper Potions, since the game gives you so many in chests.

Toothache

2010-11-23 02:55:07 pm

Let the music play!

Breloom is an interesting beast. It actually falls into the exp category that needs the most exp to reach L100, but conversely it levels up in the early levels fast. So, it will certainly jump from its base level up to being an instant star. Not only that, with 130 Attack to play with it certainly can be dangerous offensively, with Espeon covering those that have low SpD, Breloom can cover the physically weak. I'll admit you learn new things as you go, with Colosseum I was surprised that Tropius of all things was my linchpin team member in the lategame for its typing and decent defences. So it just goes to show you can't discount any possibility.

Good luck with the new version!

Hariyama465

2010-12-03 01:26:03 am

Just came here to say, I just restarted the run. I got a Modest Eevee with pretty good IVs. It's probably somewhere between the 15-23 range. My last run used an Eevee that had IVs in the 1-14 range and did just fine, so this shouldn't really make a big difference.

It's also my Birthday today! So it's kind of ironic or coincidental I managed to get a Modest Eevee today, because I tried for hours yesterday and couldn't get it.

I am in the process of updating the route for my self-reference but I don't think I'll post it here cause I don't think anyone wants it.

Something to consider though:

For Shroomish, there is one problem. I definitely want a +Atk nature, but I don't want a -SpA or -Speed nature. The reason for Speed is obvious, cause Breloom actually outspeeds quite a bit in the run, but Mega Drain actually comes in handy for this run, so Adamant is not actually the preferred nature. However, there's no way to tell what nature I got until after its gauge is past 2, for this reason I was considering stocking up on a few colognes to use right after I catch Shroomish. It would make his gauge go down by a little more, and it would reveal what nature he had as soon as I caught him. If it was a wrong nature, I could just reset. However, even though I'll be able to afford them, colognes ARE expensive, and on the other hand, having a -SpA nature might not be THAT detrimental.

What do you guys think?

Finally, even though this doesn't really matter, I probably won't be putting up segments to YouTube. I didn't do this for the other run just because, I don't think it's completely necessary and it takes an hour to upload every segment. However, I will be putting up both Exol fights, one with Houndour (because it was the best Exol fight I've ever had with Houndour) and the one with Breloom, just to show how much devastation Breloom does against Exol.

Just came here to say, I just restarted the run. I got a Modest Eevee with pretty good IVs. It's probably somewhere between the 15-23 range. My last run used an Eevee that had IVs in the 1-14 range and did just fine, so this shouldn't really make a big difference.

It's also my Birthday today! So it's kind of ironic or coincidental I managed to get a Modest Eevee today, because I tried for hours yesterday and couldn't get it.

I am in the process of updating the route for my self-reference but I don't think I'll post it here cause I don't think anyone wants it.

Something to consider though:

For Shroomish, there is one problem. I definitely want a +Atk nature, but I don't want a -SpA or -Speed nature. The reason for Speed is obvious, cause Breloom actually outspeeds quite a bit in the run, but Mega Drain actually comes in handy for this run, so Adamant is not actually the preferred nature. However, there's no way to tell what nature I got until after its gauge is past 2, for this reason I was considering stocking up on a few colognes to use right after I catch Shroomish. It would make his gauge go down by a little more, and it would reveal what nature he had as soon as I caught him. If it was a wrong nature, I could just reset. However, even though I'll be able to afford them, colognes ARE expensive, and on the other hand, having a -SpA nature might not be THAT detrimental.

What do you guys think?

Finally, even though this doesn't really matter, I probably won't be putting up segments to YouTube. I didn't do this for the other run just because, I don't think it's completely necessary and it takes an hour to upload every segment. However, I will be putting up both Exol fights, one with Houndour (because it was the best Exol fight I've ever had with Houndour) and the one with Breloom, just to show how much devastation Breloom does against Exol.

Flip

2010-12-03 10:51:28 am

1-Up!

Happy Birthday, CaptainYama!

Toothache

2010-12-03 11:34:39 am

Let the music play!

That's a pretty common requirement for a main attacker - the need for both Atk and SpA. Lonely or Naughty are the best natures for Breloom to have in this case. I wouldn't worry too much about the difference in nature affecting the Shadow Gauge drop, it won't be much different. Colognes are not cheap, but at least the Cologne Case isn't optional in this game, and using a Cologne is much faster than entering an optional battle to remove gauge.

Remember, Shroomish won't gain any EV/exp until after 2 bars are revealed.

If you're uploading to YT, don't upload the raw files. No wonder it takes so long lol.

Oh and Happy Birthday!

Hariyama465

2010-12-03 06:56:20 pm

Thanks Flip and Toothache.

And Toothache, my budget allows me to buy a few colognes. I estimate I'll probably need around 3. Also, are you serious? It won't get EXP until after 2 bars are gone? Man, that explains something! Are you sure about that? I'm not doubting you, but I did not know that before.

In that case it would be really beneficial to get colognes. By dropping it 2 bars I could see the nature, and he'll get EXP for all the fights in the lab, and be purified faster.

I wasn't that much worried about the gauge drop, and yeah, without using colognes I will have to enter at least one optional battle to get Shroomish to evolve into Breloom before Exol. I didn't know that Shroomish won't gain EXP until 2 bars are gone.

My budget, since I'm getting amulet coin, more than allows me to buy a few colognes. 3 should do the trick, but I'll do a playtest and make sure.

TheMG2

2010-12-03 07:52:46 pm

Happy birthday!

AlecK47

2012-08-20 11:16:22 pm

I've been thinking about running this game for a while now, so I should probably post. Actually, I started a run a while back, but badly misread Teddiursa's stats and saved when I shouldn't have, so I'm restarting. I'm doing a segmented run, which should technically qualify as low%, since I only snag the mandatory Teddiursa. I did a test playthrough a while back, and with segmentation, it is not hard at all (at least in theory) to beat the game with just Espeon and Teddiursa. Fast special sweeper with Bite + physical tank with STABed Return + luck manipulation = win. I would offer a time estimate, but my test playthrough made no real attempt to be fast, just to see if I could get through the game with the minimum number of fights, and see what items I really needed. I will probably add a fight or two just so I can purify Teddiursa without colognes, because it's faster to manipulate a few reverse modes than to run to the store for colognes, buy them, apply them, and run back to purify.

I've been thinking about running this game for a while now, so I should probably post.  Actually, I started a run a while back, but badly misread Teddiursa's stats and saved when I shouldn't have, so I'm restarting.  I'm doing a segmented run, which should technically qualify as low%, since I only snag the mandatory Teddiursa.  I did a test playthrough a while back, and with segmentation, it is not hard at all (at least in theory) to beat the game with just Espeon and Teddiursa.  Fast special sweeper with Bite + physical tank with STABed Return + luck manipulation = win.  I would offer a time estimate, but my test playthrough made no real attempt to be fast, just to see if I could get through the game with the minimum number of fights, and see what items I really needed.  I will probably add a fight or two just so I can purify Teddiursa without colognes, because it's faster to manipulate a few reverse modes than to run to the store for colognes, buy them, apply them, and run back to purify.

dondon151

Edit history:

dondon151: 2012-08-24 01:29:52 am

dondon151: 2012-08-23 10:29:43 pm

2012-08-23 10:29:11 pm

CaptainYama and I were talking about this awhile ago; he's dropped off the face of the earth recently but I planned out the entire run (needs revisions, though). PM me if you're interested.

(100% snags. It looks like you're going for an any% though, but my strats could still come in handy, I guess?)

AlecK47

2012-08-26 04:40:22 pm

For anyone who's interested, I expect to start the run in about a week or so. I'm also adding some additional snags to save time, and to get the Twistedspoon for Espeon. Mawile, for example, hits hard and is a slow KO with Espeon and Teddiursa.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2012-08-26 05:15:17 pm

Claimh Happy

Have you tried out the Espeon + Breloom strategy that Yama had planned out?

AlecK47

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2012-08-26 05:30:50 pm

2012-08-26 05:29:20 pm

There are two main problems that I can see with Breloom. First you have to purify it. Even if you us colognes (which cost money and require a trip to the shop) to get the first two bars gone, and get it ready to purify by the time you get back to the lab, it takes about an extra minute to purify. Second, although Breloom would beat Teddiursa for levels 23-30, it offers surprisingly little speed advantage (talking about the stat here) over Teddiursa, because enemies use so many slow Pokemon. It seems to basically come down to type coverage in a few places (and not that many of them) and a few good levels vs. availability and a few levels that are surprisingly passable.

To be more specific, I have played through with Breloom (though not for speed), and part of the purpose of my test run was to see just how Teddiursa fared. Were I not so pleasantly surprised, I would most definitely be using Breloom.

Finally, in the 100% route I just got from dondon151 (if you want to see it, PM one of us), which he made at least partly while consulting with Yama, he uses Teddiursa.

So I guess that I must admit to not having actually tried it, but I have most certainly thought about it. But if anyone has any good evidence that I am wrong, please let me know. I care more about making a good run than being right.

There are two main problems that I can see with Breloom.  First you have to purify it.  Even if you us colognes (which cost money and require a trip to the shop) to get the first two bars gone, and get it ready to purify by the time you get back to the lab, it takes about an extra minute to purify.  Second, although Breloom would beat Teddiursa for levels 23-30, it offers surprisingly little speed advantage (talking about the stat here) over Teddiursa, because enemies use so many slow Pokemon.  It seems to basically come down to type coverage in a few places (and not that many of them) and a few good levels vs. availability and a few levels that are surprisingly passable.

To be more specific, I have played through with Breloom (though not for speed), and part of the purpose of my test run was to see just how Teddiursa fared.  Were I not so pleasantly surprised, I would most definitely be using Breloom.

Finally, in the 100% route I just got from dondon151 (if you want to see it, PM one of us), which he made at least partly while consulting with Yama, he uses Teddiursa.

So I guess that I must admit to not having actually [i]tried[/i] it, but I have most certainly thought about it.  But if anyone has any good evidence that I am wrong, please let me know.  I care more about making a good run than being right.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2012-08-26 06:26:44 pm

Claimh Happy

Oh wait, was Yama's run going to be any% or 100%? Either way, I just wanted to make sure you'd considered it. Good luck.

AlecK47

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2012-08-26 07:21:10 pm

2012-08-26 07:01:45 pm

Thanks! Considering that this run is basically nothing BUT luck, I'll need all I can get. Of course, now I'm second guessing things because I'm not actually sure how many Pokemon Mach Punch could OHKO that would save time. I somehow managed to forget that Breloom had it. embarassed

Return works wonders once I have Teddiursa in party for a while, but I can still think of a few instances where I may have been able to outspeed both opposing Pokemon with Breloom, and a few where Mach Punch may save a round. I'm going to have to go back to the FAQ for a few things anyway, so I'll do some analysis. I really should have taken better notes on my practice run, too. I'll be back with my thoughts on that later.

Also, I believe Yama's run was 100%.

Edit: That went quicker than expected. I checked every fight before Teddiursa would evolve and there are actually very few where Breloom would bring an advantage. In several of them, Teddiursa would be slower than an opponent, but I would only suffer one attack for that. Add to that a few fights, most notably in ONBS, where Breloom would have trouble, and my choice seems clear.

Thanks!  Considering that this run is basically nothing BUT luck, I'll need all I can get.  Of course, now I'm second guessing things because I'm not actually sure how many Pokemon Mach Punch could OHKO that would save time.  I somehow managed to forget that Breloom had it. :embarassed:  Return works wonders once I have Teddiursa in party for a while, but I can still think of a few instances where I may have been able to outspeed both opposing Pokemon with Breloom, and a few where Mach Punch may save a round.  I'm going to have to go back to the FAQ for a few things anyway, so I'll do some analysis.  I really should have taken better notes on my practice run, too.  I'll be back with my thoughts on that later.

Also, I believe Yama's run was 100%.

Edit:  That went quicker than expected.  I checked every fight before Teddiursa would evolve and there are actually very few where Breloom would bring an advantage.  In several of them, Teddiursa would be slower than an opponent, but I would only suffer one attack for that.  Add to that a few fights, most notably in ONBS, where Breloom would have trouble, and my choice seems clear.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2012-08-26 08:34:03 pm

Claimh Happy

cool. I look forward to the run. Do you stream at all?

dondon151

Edit history:

dondon151: 2012-08-26 09:08:13 pm

dondon151: 2012-08-26 09:06:20 pm

2012-08-26 09:04:18 pm

Yama tested it out with Breloom and I think I convinced him to go Teddiursa. Breloom may have Mach Punch, but Teddiursa can beat that with a 5x Fury Swipes (and my route requires a LOT of 4-5x Fury Swipes). There's also space to manipulate Atk boosts from Metal Claw, which I think I use in 1 battle. There are several Pokemon against whom Breloom does a lot better than Teddiursa (most notably, guys like Sneasel and Mightyena) but Teddiursa doesn't require extra purification and Ursaring wrecks his half of the game anyway. The only problem area for Teddiursa is the segment of the game between Exol and Snattle, but he still fares decently there. (You also don't need to actively manipulate a full HP snag against Teddiursa, which is a huge plus.)

By the way, Aleck, since you're doing any%, consider doing some Rare Candy Pickup manipulations. Assuming that the formula is similar to that in Emerald, Teddiursa should start being able to Pickup Rare Candies starting at L21.