Pokemon Speed Run? [locked]

2005-04-11 10:55:03 pm

Do you know the Muffin Man?

I have been considering doing a Pokemon speed run over the summer and I was wondering if there was already something like that around that I can check out and rip ideas :p

If anybody else would like to share idea, that would be cool. Or even better, as I lack the equipment and maybe even the time. If someone would like to take my run idea and try to make a speed run from it. Of course, I haven't completely calculated everything for my run...I've yet to do another run through the game and determine the exp points you get from each trainer since that'll be the longest :p.

Thread title:

MrBlarney

2005-04-12 01:47:21 am

Novice Speedwalker

I think there was a topic on this a while ago, or it was part of a larger topic... either way, I think that the consensus was that a speed run of Pokemon (and its sequels, etc.) would take far too long to be enjoyable. Mostly, it is because progress in Pokemon is actually centered quite a bit around leveling up, which can take quite a while. Then again, I've never played for speed, so I'm not totally sure of minimum levels and the like. I just don't think that speed runs are really possible with Pokemon.

DTaeKim

2005-04-12 02:21:37 am

I've been thinking of that too. I've actually gone and tried to see if it was feasible, and it is, but rather boring. I think I can get a time below 7 hours easily, but I'm unsure as to what the actual time is.

First off, regarding the originals, Red/Blue is the best choice. Ignore Yellow since you start with Pikachu, and Pikachu really isn't the optimal choice for the first Gym Leader. With that, I would start with Squirtle.

Anyway, fight as few trainers as possible. Use Repels like mad in the world maps and avoid as many trainers as possible. You'll have to use the Gym Leaders and the Gyms as the training areas. There are also, of course, force battles (Nugget Bridge). In addition, Zapdos will be skipped because of its presence in the Power Plant, and Articuno is skipped because Seafoam Islands can be completely skipped as well. HM Slaves will be common, especially for Fly.

I thought of a possible final team to use as well. This is to maximize success against the Elite Four thanks to low levels.

Blastoise (Surf/Ice Beam/anything else)
Graveler (Strength/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Explosion)
Kadabra (Psychic/Recover)
Jolteon (Thunderbolt)
Fearow (Drill Peck/Fly)

I'll run through the game and see how it turns out.

I've been thinking of that too.  I've actually gone and tried to see if it was feasible, and it is, but rather boring.  I think I can get a time below 7 hours easily, but I'm unsure as to what the actual time is.

First off, regarding the originals, Red/Blue is the best choice.  Ignore Yellow since you start with Pikachu, and Pikachu really isn't the optimal choice for the first Gym Leader.  With that, I would start with Squirtle.

Anyway, fight as few trainers as possible.  Use Repels like mad in the world maps and avoid as many trainers as possible.  You'll have to use the Gym Leaders and the Gyms as the training areas.  There are also, of course, force battles (Nugget Bridge).  In addition, Zapdos will be skipped because of its presence in the Power Plant, and Articuno is skipped because Seafoam Islands can be completely skipped as well.  HM Slaves will be common, especially for Fly.

I thought of a possible final team to use as well.  This is to maximize success against the Elite Four thanks to low levels.

Blastoise (Surf/Ice Beam/anything else)
Graveler (Strength/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Explosion)
Kadabra (Psychic/Recover)
Jolteon (Thunderbolt)
Fearow (Drill Peck/Fly)

I'll run through the game and see how it turns out.

Cygnus

2005-04-12 03:02:39 am

Ben Goldberg

How could you beat the Gym bosses at such a low level?

Naye745

2005-04-12 03:05:36 am

I don't think it would take much longer than 3 hours. You should be able to beat the Elite Four with enough luck and a final team of Zapdos/Blastoise using enough items, I'd think. I've gotten to the Elite Four in a little over 3 hours (my team was level 50-ish, fighting little more than required fights), so getting lucky enough in the final battle with the right set of items should be all it takes to win rather quickly. I think it would be pretty interesting if done well.

DTaeKim

2005-04-12 03:13:43 am

Abuse the type advantages.

It's how I beat the Elite Four at level 45.

Oh, and there's an additional advantage to playing Red/Blue vs. Yellow. The Gym Leader levels are lower, though some battles are more difficult than others. Sabrina and Koga come to mind.

Fel

2005-04-12 05:13:27 am

It's been a long time, but I remember I could get to the coast of Cinnabar Island in about two hours, so three hours would probably be realistic. If you know the Final Four well enough, you shouldn't need your guys to be above Lv45. And Rare Candies, Protein, etc. always help.
I would like to see a Pokemon Red (or Blue, I guess ::)) speed run, just to see the runner's strategy, and to see the game again.

Back when I was obsessed with the game, I used to start new games on my extra copy just to get to Cinnabar Island and catch new Lv136 monsters. Just thinking about how unhealthy I was toward that game makes me laugh.
I would actually go through the first cave (the one with the Clefairy-tachi) with my eyes closed cause I didn't want to waste time getting Flash. Tongue

MrScaryMuffin

2005-04-12 07:40:32 am

Do you know the Muffin Man?

I've been messing around a bit lately and here is my strat: Focus on only 2 or 3 pokemon and whenever there is a key battle, your pokemon should all be a good 5 levels higher than your opponent, definitely an edge. The key is the psychic pokemon. Even in the sequels, with dark and steel type pokemon, you only need to have another type (fighting/rock...I usually use sudowood) to knock anybody around. I haven't touched sapphire/ruby for awhile so I'll have to touch on this again.

The only difficulty with psychic types (especially abra, as that is usually the psyhic of choice for me) is that they're hard to catch. In order to get abra, it can take a solid few minutes. Either that, or make it a segmented run or start all over. Luckily for us, the point to catch abra in rby is not too far into the game so it is possible.

As for gaining experience, I suggest using repel everywhere you go and then begin calculating how much exp you get from certain trainers. That way you know who you have to fight and who to avoid. Plus, they'll never run away from you, so it is guranteed exp.

For pokemon rby, I would use Blastoise and Kadabra, essentially only using squirtle for the first two gyms (bite and skull bash works wonders on misty) and using only kadabra from there after. If Sabrina gives me problems, I'd invest some time in Jolteon for its pin missle attack. For Jolteon, I'll have both Team Rocket casino and team Rocket silph co to build up its exp, though I much rather just skip as much of silph co as I can. After Sabrina, I'd focus completely on Kadabra since there will no longer be any more worrisome psychic users in the future.

Of course, this can all be avoided if I just go with pokemon FireRed and abuse the dark properties of Bite (which would also work on misty's starmie). I would use all the rare candies I find and pump up kadabra as much as I can for Lance's dragons (which takes a good two or three psychics to knock out)

I've just finished crystal using my two pokemon tactic and again kadabra basically cleaned the house. I added sudowood (rock slide, earthquake, faint attack, low kick) to deal with steel and dark types, though sometimes I had to whip out my starter to finish the job (they're not too happy with me... :p)

I would love to do the rby one and leave the rest alone as I'm not too interested in the later pokemon...I just love the original.

I've been messing around a bit lately and here is my strat: Focus on only 2 or 3 pokemon and whenever there is a key battle, your pokemon should all be a good 5 levels higher than your opponent, definitely an edge. The key is the psychic pokemon. Even in the sequels, with dark and steel type pokemon, you only need to have another type (fighting/rock...I usually use sudowood) to knock anybody around. I haven't touched sapphire/ruby for awhile so I'll have to touch on this again.

The only difficulty with psychic types (especially abra, as that is usually the psyhic of choice for me) is that they're hard to catch. In order to get abra, it can take a solid few minutes. Either that, or make it a segmented run or start all over. Luckily for us, the point to catch abra in rby is not too far into the game so it is possible.

As for gaining experience, I suggest using repel everywhere you go and then begin calculating how much exp you get from certain trainers. That way you know who you have to fight and who to avoid. Plus, they'll never run away from you, so it is guranteed exp.

For pokemon rby, I would use Blastoise and Kadabra, essentially only using squirtle for the first two gyms (bite and skull bash works wonders on misty) and using only kadabra from there after. If Sabrina gives me problems, I'd invest some time in Jolteon for its pin missle attack. For Jolteon, I'll have both Team Rocket casino and team Rocket silph co to build up its exp, though I much rather just skip as much of silph co as I can. After Sabrina, I'd focus completely on Kadabra since there will no longer be any more worrisome psychic users in the future.

Of course, this can all be avoided if I just go with pokemon FireRed and abuse the dark properties of Bite (which would also work on misty's starmie). I would use all the rare candies I find and pump up kadabra as much as I can for Lance's dragons (which takes a good two or three psychics to knock out)

I've just finished crystal using my two pokemon tactic and again kadabra basically cleaned the house. I added sudowood (rock slide, earthquake, faint attack, low kick) to deal with steel and dark types, though sometimes I had to whip out my starter to finish the job (they're not too happy with me... :p)

I would love to do the rby one and leave the rest alone as I'm not too interested in the later pokemon...I just love the original.

MrScaryMuffin

2005-04-12 08:15:37 am

Do you know the Muffin Man?

My RBY run, in detail (so far):

Get squirtle, level up by fighting wild pokemon, one battle per grass patch on the way up, down, and up again (might be unnessecary depending on how much exp Brock's gym gives me)

Skip first Gary encounter (because pidgey's sand attack is death)

Pick up free potions along the way and the free antidote (left side of first tree in forest? Or I can just buy or restart if I get poisoned to death). Potions will save lives, so stock them good

Buy lots of repels, fight a few trainers on the way to Mt. Moon (avoiding youngsters and their stupid ekans and the jigglypuff user). In Mt. Moon, fight all the hikers and also get the rare candy (save it for abra)

It is vital to level up lots here for the Second Gary encounter. I would start the second segment at Cerulean's pokecenter since this is the hardest battle against Gary (bubble's 98% accuracy isn't good enough! arg!) and after that, getting abra is hard as well (just keep throwing them balls). Second rare candy is behind the house of badge talking man. Level up abra on the way to Bill's, saving the two rare candies for just before abra evolves (level 14). Kadabra should be able to take out staryu on its own, for starmie, it is better to use bite.

Get down hellafast to Vermillion, avoiding trainers and whatnot. Trade for farfetch'd if you can, it can do both fly and cut, saves lots of time. Otherwise, a paras would be good too for multi HM use. While we're talking about moves, it should be good to note that we should never touch Kadabra's teleport, it saves time. Also, keep confusion since it has lots of PP for weaker battles. My Kadabra usually has Confusion, Teleport, Psychic, Psybeam. I use items to heal.

In Vermillion, get bike badge, fight necessary users to level kadabra up to around 18-20 and fight Gary. Sand attack doesn't seem to affect psychic so much so he's screwed here. Use wortortle for his abra if you like..but its useless anyways.

Screw getting flash, since we probably don't have that many pokemon anyways, head back to cerulean, grab the bike and go to rock cave. You can probably avoid all but 2 trainers on the way there.

Rock cave's pokemaniacs are annoying as slowpoke is hard to knock out with either one of the two you have right now as well as a really high def and special def, but with level superiority, two or three hits max with either pokemon. Definitely use repel here, you can level up kadabra like mad at the pokemon tower.

Gary is a joke from now on, Kadabra's pumped special attack wastes anyone in two hits. It can also kill any wild pokemon with just one confusion, so don't use repel here, just level up. You shouldn't run into PP trouble before you reach the white healing zone just before Mr. Fuji. Whoo-hoo! pokeflute! Sleep is no longer an issue. Be sure to buy revives before leaving, they're lifesavers too.

Head straight to Celadon and dominate Erika's gym. More leveling can be done with the poison users on the bike route and Koga's gym. Get Jolteon and begin the slow leveling process. You should not have used any othe rare candies you've collected since abra evolved, save those here for just before when jolteon learns pin missile (level 48 :S). Level it up in the game center and silph co. It's a pain in the ass I know but I think it'll save time in the end.

Grab fly before the bike route (it's slow going up :p). Run away from Snoralx and go to Fushia. Koga is a joke, what toxic? Get surf and strength, both of which blastoise can use. Avoid the route to the right of Fushia, it's pointless, they're too weak for real levelling. Fly to celadon, I hope you got water when you went to buy that thunder stone (also can pick up ice beam for Blastoise, which is good against Lance, from the little girl...I think it was lemonade that does it?)

Use the TM to teach kadabra psychic NOW if it hasn't learned it naturally yet. I haven't tried going against Sabrina with pure psychic power...I was wondering if a really really really high level kadabra would work..hm...Oh yea, in case you've been wondering, I've yet to have any trouble with rebellious pokemon so far. Both kadabra and blastoise are really sub serviant. Level up Jolteon to pin missile level and knock out Gary and boss Rocket, get masterball. If you want, you can use the masterball to get the other Snorlax, it's pretty strong with its natural moveset, plus it can use strength and free up a spot for Blastoise.

Spank Sabrina repeatedly with pin missile and then you can almost basically forget about it (unless you plan to use it for Lorelei, you can also use the masterball to get a Zapdos...)

Blaine is stupid, level up Blastoise here, however (fight all the gym trainers) so that its ice attacks will work better later if you think you'll need it (I don't :p..Kadabra all the way!). Use Kadabra against Giovanni and head up to Indigo Plateau.

The best part of only using 2/3 pokemon is that the rest can carry your HMs for you and save slots for better attacks on your main pokemon. There are a few easy pickings trainers and a few not so easy pickings on Victory Road, I'll have to go back and see...by the time you're out, you should be comfy with levels higher than the elite 4 (63 maybe?)

Kadabra/Jolteon on Lorelei, Kadabra all the way through Bruno and Agatha (be sure to pack your ethers!). Jolteon on Lance's Aerodatcyl and Gyrados, two psychics will do in dragonair, switch to a weak pokemon to absorb Dragonite's hyper beam (he WILL do it first thing, i know it) and then waste him with Kadabra followed with Blastoise's Icebeam/blizzard when Kadabra faints.

Heal and waste Gary, much easier battle if you ask me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
If I change the run to FireRed/LeafGreen, I can just use Bite on Sabrina and save my masterball for a Zapdos, which is even better than Jolteon and pre leveled for me. You have the option of skipping the number islands, so that won't take time out...plus the game just looks nicer :p

My RBY run, in detail (so far):

Get squirtle, level up by fighting wild pokemon, one battle per grass patch on the way up, down, and up again (might be unnessecary depending on how much exp Brock's gym gives me)

Skip first Gary encounter (because pidgey's sand attack is death)

Pick up free potions along the way and the free antidote (left side of first tree in forest? Or I can just buy or restart if I get poisoned to death). Potions will save lives, so stock them good

Buy lots of repels, fight a few trainers on the way to Mt. Moon (avoiding youngsters and their stupid ekans and the jigglypuff user). In Mt. Moon, fight all the hikers and also get the rare candy (save it for abra)

It is vital to level up lots here for the Second Gary encounter. I would start the second segment at Cerulean's pokecenter since this is the hardest battle against Gary (bubble's 98% accuracy isn't good enough! arg!) and after that, getting abra is hard as well (just keep throwing them balls). Second rare candy is behind the house of badge talking man. Level up abra on the way to Bill's, saving the two rare candies for just before abra evolves (level 14). Kadabra should be able to take out staryu on its own, for starmie, it is better to use bite.

Get down hellafast to Vermillion, avoiding trainers and whatnot. Trade for farfetch'd if you can, it can do both fly and cut, saves lots of time. Otherwise, a paras would be good too for multi HM use. While we're talking about moves, it should be good to note that we should never touch Kadabra's teleport, it saves time. Also, keep confusion since it has lots of PP for weaker battles. My Kadabra usually has Confusion, Teleport, Psychic, Psybeam. I use items to heal.

In Vermillion, get bike badge, fight necessary users to level kadabra up to around 18-20 and fight Gary. Sand attack doesn't seem to affect psychic so much so he's screwed here. Use wortortle for his abra if you like..but its useless anyways.

Screw getting flash, since we probably don't have that many pokemon anyways, head back to cerulean, grab the bike and go to rock cave. You can probably avoid all but 2 trainers on the way there.

Rock cave's pokemaniacs are annoying as slowpoke is hard to knock out with either one of the two you have right now as well as a really high def and special def, but with level superiority, two or three hits max with either pokemon. Definitely use repel here, you can level up kadabra like mad at the pokemon tower.

Gary is a joke from now on, Kadabra's pumped special attack wastes anyone in two hits. It can also kill any wild pokemon with just one confusion, so don't use repel here, just level up. You shouldn't run into PP trouble before you reach the white healing zone just before Mr. Fuji. Whoo-hoo! pokeflute! Sleep is no longer an issue. Be sure to buy revives before leaving, they're lifesavers too.

Head straight to Celadon and dominate Erika's gym. More leveling can be done with the poison users on the bike route and Koga's gym. Get Jolteon and begin the slow leveling process. You should not have used any othe rare candies you've collected since abra evolved, save those here for just before when jolteon learns pin missile (level 48 :S). Level it up in the game center and silph co. It's a pain in the ass I know but I think it'll save time in the end.

Grab fly before the bike route (it's slow going up :p). Run away from Snoralx and go to Fushia. Koga is a joke, what toxic? Get surf and strength, both of which blastoise can use. Avoid the route to the right of Fushia, it's pointless, they're too weak for real levelling. Fly to celadon, I hope you got water when you went to buy that thunder stone (also can pick up ice beam for Blastoise, which is good against Lance, from the little girl...I think it was lemonade that does it?)

Use the TM to teach kadabra psychic NOW if it hasn't learned it naturally yet. I haven't tried going against Sabrina with pure psychic power...I was wondering if a really really really high level kadabra would work..hm...Oh yea, in case you've been wondering, I've yet to have any trouble with rebellious pokemon so far. Both kadabra and blastoise are really sub serviant. Level up Jolteon to pin missile level and knock out Gary and boss Rocket, get masterball. If you want, you can use the masterball to get the other Snorlax, it's pretty strong with its natural moveset, plus it can use strength and free up a spot for Blastoise.

Spank Sabrina repeatedly with pin missile and then you can almost basically forget about it (unless you plan to use it for Lorelei, you can also use the masterball to get a Zapdos...)

Blaine is stupid, level up Blastoise here, however (fight all the gym trainers) so that its ice attacks will work better later if you think you'll need it (I don't :p..Kadabra all the way!). Use Kadabra against Giovanni and head up to Indigo Plateau.

The best part of only using 2/3 pokemon is that the rest can carry your HMs for you and save slots for better attacks on your main pokemon. There are a few easy pickings trainers and a few not so easy pickings on Victory Road, I'll have to go back and see...by the time you're out, you should be comfy with levels higher than the elite 4 (63 maybe?)

Kadabra/Jolteon on Lorelei, Kadabra all the way through Bruno and Agatha (be sure to pack your ethers!). Jolteon on Lance's Aerodatcyl and Gyrados, two psychics will do in dragonair, switch to a weak pokemon to absorb Dragonite's hyper beam (he WILL do it first thing, i know it) and then waste him with Kadabra followed with Blastoise's Icebeam/blizzard when Kadabra faints.

Heal and waste Gary, much easier battle if you ask me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
If I change the run to FireRed/LeafGreen, I can just use Bite on Sabrina and save my masterball for a Zapdos, which is even better than Jolteon and pre leveled for me. You have the option of skipping the number islands, so that won't take time out...plus the game just looks nicer :p

MrBlarney

2005-04-12 10:20:47 am

Novice Speedwalker

Wow! Sounds like I was incredibly wrong about Pokemon being un-speed runnable... I take it all back!

On the minor note of rebellious Pokemon, if I recall correctly, Pokemon will never rebel against their original owners, only owners to whom they have been traded to. Man, it has been too long since I've played a Pokemon game... maybe I should play through Fire Red/Leaf Green to increase my total collection, hmm...

ShadowJedi

Edit history:

ShadowJedi: 2005-04-12 10:30:59 am

2005-04-12 10:22:28 am

I love FuSN 1G - SG1!

What's with you people?
Blastoise? Jolteon? Several pokémon?!?

I did try this, and got to the Elite in Blue in 6:30 (far from optimized).
It was simply by using the best Pokémon ever, Nidoking.
With a moveset of Earthquake, Surf, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam/Blizzard (preferably Ice Beam) it can whip the Elite with enough X-specials/speeds.

EDIT: Forgot HMs. Catch a pidgey (just throw the ball) and somthing that learns cut and strength. (Does Squirtle learn strength?)

My plan:
Get Nidoran male, asap. This should be one single random encounter, with a maximum of 3 escapes when you go from, to and from Pallet. Nidoran is then trained against bugs (weak, fast exp).
Then, buy potions, and save outside Brock's gym. This is so that you won't get criticalled, and have to start all over.

Then, use Squirtle's Tail Whip to weaken defense, and Nidoran's Horn Attack to kill stuff. You should fight the extra trainer for exp, to make Brock that much easier.

Through Mount Moon you should only fight the strongest trainers so that Nidoran evolves into Nidorino (avoid rock, if possible), and you should get a Moonstone for after Misty.
Nugget Bridge should go before Misty, too, because the Starmie is deadly.

Nidoking will then own Lt. Surge, thanks to high def and lightning resistance. The only problem-leader in a gym would be Sabrina after that, but with it's speed and strength Nidoking should OHKO all Psychichs before they move.

As soon as you get surf, Nidoking will start beating everything, and although I don't remember where Ice Beam was gotten, it (and Earthquake) well makes up for the time lost.

Items to get are:
Potions (everything will have a higher level than you)
Repels (duh)
X-Special, X-Speed (X-Def?)
For the Leauge, raised stats will be a necessity.

I think I could beat the game in 6:45 with this strat... Though it was some time since I played.
With Nidoking, and X-items, all enemies should fall easily. The problem, if any, would be money, but selling TMs and random items would help out a lot. Escape Ropes could also be used at a few occasions.

Note that any random encounter is a waste of time, as trainers are just as strong as wild pPokémon, but give more exp. The only problem I can see would be Lance's Gyarados, which may Hydro Pump immedietly, but as you have your Squirtle, you can use revives untill it's out of ammo/PP.

Lorelei: X-specials followed by X-speed (as many as needed to be faster).
Bruno: X-defense, X-attack. Earthquake = ownage.
Aghata: X-attack (special for defense/Golbat?) X-speed
Lance: If Gyarados is a problem, either hope for a OHKO with Thunderbolt, and boost stats against Aerodactyl, or use revive strats.
Gary: Use all X-items you've got, start with Defense. When all is maxed, use the PP-recovery as needed before slaying everything. Pidgeot is no problem with Nidoking.

What's with you people?
Blastoise? Jolteon? Several pokémon?!?

I did try this, and got to the Elite in Blue in 6:30 (far from optimized).
It was simply by using the best Pokémon ever, Nidoking.
With a moveset of Earthquake, Surf, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam/Blizzard (preferably Ice Beam) it can whip the Elite with enough X-specials/speeds.

EDIT: Forgot HMs. Catch a pidgey (just throw the ball) and somthing that learns cut and strength. (Does Squirtle learn strength?)

My plan:
Get Nidoran male, asap. This should be one single random encounter, with a maximum of 3 escapes when you go from, to and from Pallet. Nidoran is then trained against bugs (weak, fast exp).
Then, buy potions, and save outside Brock's gym. This is so that you won't get criticalled, and have to start all over.

Then, use Squirtle's Tail Whip to weaken defense, and Nidoran's Horn Attack to kill stuff. You should fight the extra trainer for exp, to make Brock that much easier.

Through Mount Moon you should only fight the strongest trainers so that Nidoran evolves into Nidorino (avoid rock, if possible), and you should get a Moonstone for after Misty.
Nugget Bridge should go before Misty, too, because the Starmie is deadly.

Nidoking will then own Lt. Surge, thanks to high def and lightning resistance. The only problem-leader in a gym would be Sabrina after that, but with it's speed and strength Nidoking should OHKO all Psychichs before they move.

As soon as you get surf, Nidoking will start beating everything, and although I don't remember where Ice Beam was gotten, it (and Earthquake) well makes up for the time lost.

Items to get are: 
Potions (everything will have a higher level than you)
Repels (duh)
X-Special, X-Speed (X-Def?)
For the Leauge, raised stats will be a necessity.

I think I could beat the game in 6:45 with this strat... Though it was some time since I played.
With Nidoking, and X-items, all enemies should fall easily. The problem, if any, would be money, but selling TMs and random items would help out a lot. Escape Ropes could also be used at a few occasions.

Note that any random encounter is a waste of time, as trainers are just as strong as wild pPokémon, but give more exp. The only problem I can see would be Lance's Gyarados, which may Hydro Pump immedietly, but as you have your Squirtle, you can use revives untill it's out of ammo/PP.

Lorelei: X-specials followed by X-speed (as many as needed to be faster).
Bruno: X-defense, X-attack. Earthquake = ownage.
Aghata: X-attack (special for defense/Golbat?) X-speed
Lance: If Gyarados is a problem, either hope for a OHKO with Thunderbolt, and boost stats against Aerodactyl, or use revive strats.
Gary: Use all X-items you've got, start with Defense. When all is maxed, use the PP-recovery as needed before slaying everything. Pidgeot is no problem with Nidoking.

Neboke

2005-04-12 11:14:05 am

Fight, Crocogator, for everlasting peace!

Personally, I think you should go for the Starter-Only run. By the time you hit the E4, you'll be at such a high level that you'll probably be able to drop everything in one shot. I'd pick Squirtle just so you could have Ice Beam ready for the dragons.

It's not impossible. You just have to choose your moves very, very carefully and adapt on the fly. Put them TMs to good use.

ShadowJedi

Edit history:

ShadowJedi: 2005-04-12 11:40:06 am

2005-04-12 11:32:45 am

I love FuSN 1G - SG1!

High levels? The elite will have much higher levels than you do (unless you wasted time training). They'll be 50-60, you'll be 45ish, depending on the Pokémon you use. That is, that's what I got anyway...

If, by any chance, you want several high-level pokémon you'd need to catch them at high levels (and their stat-exp will be at rock-bottom),

MrScaryMuffin

Edit history:

MrScaryMuffin: 2005-04-12 05:38:37 pm

2005-04-12 05:37:22 pm

Do you know the Muffin Man?

Hm...first off, male nidorans are extremely rare in blue, if you want to do your run, you should do it in red.

As for a single pokemon run, the best is kadabra, with the only problem gym being Sabrina's. I'm going to do a trial run and see if I can get past Sabrina with a high level kadabra. The only other troubling battle would be against lorelei's slowbro, but again, level differences should be on my side (even if it does do amnesia).

Frankly, I just feel that Nidoking has too many weaknesses and not a high enough special attack to do much. You could use a Snorlax for the same moveset and it'll have amnesia, which would help a lot.

However, if 6:45 is your time, I would say forget it. Seems like your problem is with the items. Using Kadabra, even without letting it learn recover, I do not have to use items often and my battles end after 2-4 turns wherein Kadabra sustains little damage thanks to its high special stat (physical attackers are usually weak to psychic and die in the first round, the only problem attack is Lance's hyperbeam). Looking at my previous time right now, from doing a trial Blastoise/Jolteon/Kadabra run, with additional fooling around in Safari Zone, getting flash, fighting all trainers (which I won't do in the actual run), etc, I still only got a time of 4:12. If I optimize my run and decide on exactly which trainers to battle, I have no doubt that I can have a sub 3:30 run with little problems. This is even taking into account the length of time it'll take to catch the stupid abra.

If you do a single pokemon run, there is no doubt that your pokemon will always be at higher levels than anyone else in the game. Like I said before, by the time I got to the elite 4, my Blastoise was level 61, my Jolteon at 63 and my Kadabra at 65. Of course, this could also be linked to my fooling around. But if I remove Jolteon from the run and perhaps even blastoise, there is no reason why I could not have a level 65 Kadabra by the time I reach the elite 4. Not to mention I can always use the masterball to get a legendary bird of choice (Zapdos would take about 5 minutes with repel, Articuno would take much longer, around 15-20 minutes, Moltres is en route to elite 4 and would only be 3 minutes out of the way) and the bird will be at level 50 to start with a nicely rounded special stat so you don't have to worry.

I am confident in my Kadabra run. If you're not convince, just give it a shot and you'll see that, after it evolves all your troubles just seems to melt away. Psychics have the definite edge in RBY because there is no one else to challenge them.

Hm...first off, male nidorans are extremely rare in blue, if you want to do your run, you should do it in red.

As for a single pokemon run, the best is kadabra, with the only problem gym being Sabrina's. I'm going to do a trial run and see if I can get past Sabrina with a high level kadabra. The only other troubling battle would be against lorelei's slowbro, but again, level differences should be on my side (even if it does do amnesia).

Frankly, I just feel that Nidoking has too many weaknesses and not a high enough special attack to do much. You could use a Snorlax for the same moveset and it'll have amnesia, which would help a lot.

However, if 6:45 is your time, I would say forget it. Seems like your problem is with the items. Using Kadabra, even without letting it learn recover, I do not have to use items often and my battles end after 2-4 turns wherein Kadabra sustains little damage thanks to its high special stat (physical attackers are usually weak to psychic and die in the first round, the only problem attack is Lance's hyperbeam). Looking at my previous time right now, from doing a trial Blastoise/Jolteon/Kadabra run, with additional fooling around in Safari Zone, getting flash, fighting all trainers (which I won't do in the actual run), etc, I still only got a time of 4:12. If I optimize my run and decide on exactly which trainers to battle, I have no doubt that I can have a sub 3:30 run with little problems. This is even taking into account the length of time it'll take to catch the stupid abra.

If you do a single pokemon run, there is no doubt that your pokemon will always be at higher levels than anyone else in the game. Like I said before, by the time I got to the elite 4, my Blastoise was level 61, my Jolteon at 63 and my Kadabra at 65. Of course, this could also be linked to my fooling around. But if I remove Jolteon from the run and perhaps even blastoise, there is no reason why I could not have a level 65 Kadabra by the time I reach the elite 4. Not to mention I can always use the masterball to get a legendary bird of choice (Zapdos would take about 5  minutes with repel, Articuno would take much longer, around 15-20 minutes, Moltres is en route to elite 4 and would only be 3 minutes out of the way) and the bird will be at level 50 to start with a nicely rounded special stat so you don't have to worry.

I am confident in my Kadabra run. If you're not convince, just give it a shot and you'll see that, after it evolves all your troubles just seems to melt away. Psychics have the definite edge in RBY because there is no one else to challenge them.

MrScaryMuffin

2005-04-12 05:43:12 pm

Do you know the Muffin Man?

Quote:

Wow! Sounds like I was incredibly wrong about Pokemon being un-speed runnable... I take it all back!

On the minor note of rebellious Pokemon, if I recall correctly, Pokemon will never rebel against their original owners, only owners to whom they have been traded to. Man, it has been too long since I've played a Pokemon game... maybe I should play through Fire Red/Leaf Green to increase my total collection, hmm...

Correction: Pokemon rebel if they level up too much. The badges let you control them (Misty's-30, Erika's-50, Sabrina's-70, Giovanni-all levels). In my tri-pokemon run, I found myself around level 53 with my Kadabra when I went against Sabrina, very dangerous since you do not know if it'll listen to you. I believe real trouble starts when you're 5 or more levels above the badge control. I'll have to test this out.

marshmallow

2005-04-12 09:09:11 pm

Jack of all Trades

I'd watch a Pokemon run...didn't think it could be beaten so fast, but then again I usually fought every single trainer and leveled like crazy.

Isn't leveling the Abra up a big pain though? I mean, isn't he sorta like Magikarp? I just remember throwing him into the babysitter's place and coming back later...

ShadowJedi

Edit history:

ShadowJedi: 2005-04-12 10:02:10 pm

2005-04-12 10:01:20 pm

I love FuSN 1G - SG1!

When I said "Far from optimized" I wasn't clear enough. I got lost, twice, and hadn't played the game in a long time. Also, the first encounter in the area for Nidorans was, in fact, the Nidoran male, so it's not that rare imo.
But then again, I met 2 pikachus first thing in the forest, so maybe it was luck... Anyway...

My route was screwed up, since I hadn't played in a long time (as I just said) and went the long, slow, way to the south...
I got lost once in Silph, I remember, and that cost me 30ish minutes. :/

I was thinking of going through each trainer to see which ones are worthwile expwise, but I forgot to write that down, too, so I got far too many battles early on...

And about the pokémon of choice. A Kadabra is incredibly weak defensivly, yet strong offensivly, while Nidoking has a bit of both, and with X-items the difference should be removed. I'll have to test that, though. Also, how is it with the PP for Kadabra? Will it last the entire elite? If it doesn't, get X-specials for OHKOs, to save PP.

Oh, and abra is worse than a magikarp. The magikarp learns tackle at 15, and actually has defensive stats...

When I said "Far from optimized" I wasn't clear enough. I got lost, twice, and hadn't played the game in a long time. Also, the first encounter in the area for Nidorans was, in fact, the Nidoran male, so it's not that rare imo.
But then again, I met 2 pikachus first thing in the forest, so maybe it was luck... Anyway...

My route was screwed up, since I hadn't played in a long time (as I just said) and went the long, slow, way to the south...
I got lost once in Silph, I remember, and that cost me 30ish minutes. :/

I was thinking of going through each trainer to see which ones are worthwile expwise, but I forgot to write that down, too, so I got far too many battles early on...

And about the pokémon of choice. A Kadabra is incredibly weak defensivly, yet strong offensivly, while Nidoking has a bit of both, and with X-items the difference should be removed. I'll have to test that, though. Also, how is it with the PP for Kadabra? Will it last the entire elite? If it doesn't, get X-specials for OHKOs, to save PP.

Oh, and abra is worse than a magikarp. The magikarp learns tackle at 15, and actually has defensive stats...

SuZaku

2005-04-12 10:23:55 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

Oh, and abra is worse than a magikarp. The magikarp learns tackle at 15, and actually has defensive stats...

Yeah, but you can actually use TMs on the Abra.

DTaeKim

2005-04-12 11:01:12 pm

I've been pondering this over all day. And I realized one thing.

It is possible to beat the Elite Four, with one Pokémon, at lvl. 40.

How?

Two things: X Accuracy and a one-hit KO move.

X Accuracy ensures that all moves will hit the opponent. This means that all one-hit KO moves WILL hit 100% of the time.

With this, I looked at the FAQs.

First off, HORN DRILL IS PURCHASABLE AT THE CELADON MART. This means that all Gym Leaders beyond Lt. Surge can be swept by one Pokémon that knows Horn Drill.

Next, I looked at the TM compatability guide. This is where the list of possible Pokémon disappear. Thanks to http://www.azureheights.com, the list of Pokémon is as follows:

Nidorina
Nidoqueen
Nidoran (male) series
Ponyta series
Seel series
Rhyhorn series
Goldeen series
Tauros
Lapras
Omastar
Dragonair
Dragonite
Mew

Now, if I were to pull this off at a low level, I need two things. One, a Pokémon who can survive one attack so the X-Accuracy kicks in. Two, I need a Pokémon durable enough to survive the attack. Out of the above, the most feasable are Tauros (general durability) and Lapras (same). Lapras doesn't have the speed, while Tauros does. Lapras, however, has the special stat to survive and the HP to do so as well. Unfortunately, it's obtained about half-way through the game. With this in mind, here's my beginning startegy, starting on the next post.

I've been pondering this over all day.  And I realized one thing.

It is possible to beat the Elite Four, with one Pokémon, at lvl. 40.

How?

Two things: X Accuracy and a one-hit KO move.

X Accuracy ensures that all moves will hit the opponent.  This means that all one-hit KO moves WILL hit 100% of the time.

With this, I looked at the FAQs.

First off, HORN DRILL IS PURCHASABLE AT THE CELADON MART.  This means that all Gym Leaders beyond Lt. Surge can be swept by one Pokémon that knows Horn Drill.

Next, I looked at the TM compatability guide.  This is where the list of possible Pokémon disappear.  Thanks to http://www.azureheights.com, the list of Pokémon is as follows:

Nidorina
 Nidoqueen
 Nidoran (male) series
 Ponyta series
 Seel series
 Rhyhorn series
 Goldeen series
 Tauros
 Lapras
 Omastar
 Dragonair
 Dragonite
 Mew

Now, if I were to pull this off at a low level, I need two things.  One, a Pokémon who can survive one attack so the X-Accuracy kicks in.  Two, I need a Pokémon durable enough to survive the attack.  Out of the above, the most feasable are Tauros (general durability) and Lapras (same).  Lapras doesn't have the speed, while Tauros does.  Lapras, however, has the special stat to survive and the HP to do so as well.  Unfortunately, it's obtained about half-way through the game.  With this in mind, here's my beginning startegy, starting on the next post.

sarou

2005-04-12 11:01:14 pm

one-armed bandit

I'd watch a pokemon run too.

I once played Red through with only using Charizard (slash,dig,flamethrower,fireblast). I'm not sure if Charizard is any use in a speedrun but he certainly has a nice variety of moves. Slash, for example, deals great deal of damage because of the almost 100% critical hit and it can take out normal/fighting/fire/water/electric types in almost one-hit. Dig is great against Charizard's absolute weakness, rock-type. (I bet you all know these but I'm gonna point em out anyway:p) Flamethrower agaisnt the leaf and a lucky fire blast takes down even the hardest opponents.

The real problem with Charizard is the first 2 gyms. After that, everything is easy as hell. I remember beating almost all of the elite 4 + Gary in one round. Although, I battled against all the trainers and was around 70-80 lvl.

However, it has been a long time since I played it and I probably dont know anything =)

DTaeKim

2005-04-12 11:07:08 pm

I decided on Yellow, oddly enough, despite my earlier objection to the game.

Why?

1) Nidoran M can learn Double Kick early, perfect for Brock.
2) Pikachu is perfect for Misty.
3) Kadabra is a wild Pokémon.

There are also other differences, like the fact that Surge only has Raichu and Sabrina only has the three evolutions of Abra, which makes things faster in their gyms. In addition, all of the Gym Leaders after Misty have higher levels than their R/B/Y counterparts, which may allow for slightly faster leveling.

The purpose of the team is to rush to Celadon City as fast as possible, teach Horn Drill to Nidoking (superior stats), and then proceed to progress my way until I obtain Lapras, who will be my second Horn-Drill back-up to Nidoking, as well as my Surfer. HM slave Pidgey is present for Fly, and a Sandshrew for Cut/Strength. Kadabra is there for Psychic, mainly, so I can rush through Koga, Bruno, and Agatha of the Elite Four.

MrScaryMuffin

2005-04-13 12:25:19 am

Do you know the Muffin Man?

Just remember that you can't use horn drill on flying pokemon because they're immune to ground attacks (or am I talking about fissure?). But pikachu should answer that either way.

As I recall, the OHKO attacks all have a 30% accuracy. How many X-accuracies do you need? When the game says "greatly rose" it means a 100% increase (doubling effect) so I'm guessing that X accuracy and other that simply raises the stat a bit would do anywhere from 25-50% raise. Whereas Amnesia can boost any pokemon to 999 in three turns (two for Mewtwo), It would take twice as long to do that for X-accuracy. I suggest adding double team to your arsenal since two turns of that can help alot and give you the time required for items.

As for PP with Kadabra, I carry ethers and elixers that are collected in Mt Moon and Victory Road. I have 25 for confusion, 20 for psybeam, and 10 for psychic with two PPups along my route. I can replace my teleport for psywave if nessecary but I don't like that attack :p

Personally I don't find abra that hard to raise. I'll be catching one that is level 8-12 meaning that I only have to raise 2-6 levels before using my rare candies. As I've mentioned before, I can do this before I meet Bill. Also mentioned before, I'm not worried about defense. In terms of special def, Kadabra has an edge since it's the same as its special attack. Physical pokemon either have a low special or is weak to psychic attacks and on top of that, Kadabra is damn fast meaning OHKOs on all physical attackers excluding the dratini family.

So far it seems that we have three run options:
1. Solo Nidoking
2. Solo Kadabra (maybe with a few tag teaming pokemon)
3. Horn Drill/X-accuracy run

Smiley

I'm just stubborn because I love my Kadabra and it has been the only run I've ever done. I'm currently going through my data collection run right now...check the following post to see (this one is getting too cluttered)

Just remember that you can't use horn drill on flying pokemon because they're immune to ground attacks (or am I talking about fissure?). But pikachu should answer that either way.

As I recall, the OHKO attacks all have a 30% accuracy. How many X-accuracies do you need? When the game says "greatly rose" it means a 100% increase (doubling effect) so I'm guessing that X accuracy and other that simply raises the stat a bit would do anywhere from 25-50% raise. Whereas Amnesia can boost any pokemon to 999 in three turns (two for Mewtwo), It would take twice as long to do that for X-accuracy. I suggest adding double team to your arsenal since two turns of that can help alot and give you the time required for items.

As for PP with Kadabra, I carry ethers and elixers that are collected in Mt Moon and Victory Road. I have 25 for confusion, 20 for psybeam, and 10 for psychic with two PPups along my route. I can replace my teleport for psywave if nessecary but I don't like that attack :p

Personally I don't find abra that hard to raise. I'll be catching one that is level 8-12 meaning that I only have to raise 2-6 levels before using my rare candies. As I've mentioned before, I can do this before I meet Bill. Also mentioned before, I'm not worried about defense. In terms of special def, Kadabra has an edge since it's the same as its special attack. Physical pokemon either have a low special or is weak to psychic attacks and on top of that, Kadabra is damn fast meaning OHKOs on all physical attackers excluding the dratini family.

So far it seems that we have three run options:
1. Solo Nidoking
2. Solo Kadabra (maybe with a few tag teaming pokemon)
3. Horn Drill/X-accuracy run

:) I'm just stubborn because I love my Kadabra and it has been the only run I've ever done. I'm currently going through my data collection run right now...check the following post to see (this one is getting too cluttered)

MrScaryMuffin

2005-04-13 12:40:44 am

Do you know the Muffin Man?

Seems like I keep doing this double posts...if it is annoying, just tell me.

I ran through the beginning parts of Pokemon Blue twice and came up with the same data. Anyone want to confirm?

Timing
Actual time (not steps)
Do battles count? Yes

Battle exp
Gary (first encounter) 67 exp

Squirtle
Start at lvl 5 with 135 exp (44 more to level 6)
level 7 = 236
level 8 = 314
level 9 = 419
level 10 = 560

I suggest that someone else does the same thing along with me so that we can compare results at the end. After this, anyone will be able to optimize their run based on what exp their pokemon of preference requires and who to battle to get that exp.

In terms of starting pokemon, I thought about Bulbasaur since it would get you through the first two gym quick and also has resistance to Surge. But the real problem is the charmander at Cerulean since it'll have ember (compared to leech seed and weak ass vine whip against wortortle). I suppose you could catch a geodude and use it against charmander but that'll require some leveling in a geodude hostile environment.
In a Charmander run, leveling is the key. Again Cerulean would be the big pain in the butt since Gary's wortortle will have both bubbles and water gun (eek) and there are no real options in wild pokemon to take the brunt of the assault. Best would be to stick with squirtle.
In a yellow run, I would go as far as to say lose to Gary since that would mean he'll have a Vaporean at the end. But if that is disallowed, it is still an eevee and there are no type disadvantages. In fact, if you have your double kicking nidoran, it'll waste eevee.

I think if I were to segment this run, I'll save once before the Gary battle in Cerulean, once more before rock cave (in case I get lost :p), and a final time before the elite 4. Any opinions? I suppose the merit in the Solo Nidoking run is that you can catch it pretty early and if it takes forever, you can just restart and thus, for single segment run, it'll be better to do Nidoking (there! I said it! happy? :p)

Seems like I keep doing this double posts...if it is annoying, just tell me.

I ran through the beginning parts of Pokemon Blue twice and came up with the same data. Anyone want to confirm?

[b]Timing[/b]
Actual time (not steps)
Do battles count? Yes

[b]Battle exp[/b]
Gary (first encounter) 67 exp

[b]Squirtle [/b]
Start at lvl 5 with 135 exp (44 more to level 6)
level 7 = 236 
level 8 = 314
level 9 = 419
level 10 = 560

I suggest that someone else does the same thing along with me so that we can compare results at the end. After this, anyone will be able to optimize their run based on what exp their pokemon of preference requires and who to battle to get that exp.

In terms of starting pokemon, I thought about Bulbasaur since it would get you through the first two gym quick and also has resistance to Surge. But the real problem is the charmander at Cerulean since it'll have ember (compared to leech seed and weak ass vine whip against wortortle). I suppose you could catch a geodude and use it against charmander but that'll require some leveling in a geodude hostile environment.
In a Charmander run, leveling is the key. Again Cerulean would be the big pain in the butt since Gary's wortortle will have both bubbles and water gun (eek) and there are no real options in wild pokemon to take the brunt of the assault. Best would be to stick with squirtle.
In a yellow run, I would go as far as to say lose to Gary since that would mean he'll have a Vaporean at the end. But if that is disallowed, it is still an eevee and there are no type disadvantages. In fact, if you have your double kicking nidoran, it'll waste eevee.

I think if I were to segment this run, I'll save once before the Gary battle in Cerulean, once more before rock cave (in case I get lost :p), and a final time before the elite 4. Any opinions? I suppose the merit in the Solo Nidoking run is that you can catch it pretty early and if it takes forever, you can just restart and thus, for single segment run, it'll be better to do Nidoking (there! I said it! happy? :p)

DTaeKim

2005-04-13 12:49:24 am

Well, my run would probably have more segments, due to the fact that randomness can completely kill off your run. Critical hits anyone?

Also, Yellow has a disadvantage with a slightly longer beginning, compared to the shorter Red/Blue.

Naye745

2005-04-13 01:00:07 am

I still don't see why using anything else other than your starter would be wise. By training several on a team, you're dividing experience between several Pokemon that could be used on just building up one large powerhouse. Along with a quick catch of Zapdos at Power Plant (which would take little more than 5 minutes), you've got 2 Level 50-ish Pokemon that can beat the Elite Four by themselves with the right items. Anything else, to me, just seems like a waste of time.