Pokemon Sapphire/ruby speed run

2008-06-22 02:21:02 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Tropius learns flash, and you can just memorize the routes through the dark caves. It's WAY easier than it was in GSC since you can actually see stuff near you. Heck, I found my way through Victory Road without flash on my first playthrough.

Greenalink

2008-06-22 02:41:52 pm

DS Dictator

Quote from petrie911:

Tropius learns flash, and you can just memorize the routes through the dark caves. It's WAY easier than it was in GSC since you can actually see stuff near you. Heck, I found my way through Victory Road without flash on my first playthrough.

Wow, that's impressive.
I'll reccomend that X Speed maybe useful for the E4 simply because of Kyogre, get either a
Modest (boost Sp.Atk lower Atk) of a Timid Kyogre (boost Speed lower Atk) because a single x speed boost will help out the future turns from each member so each PKMN you face there should be 1 to 2 turns minimum from each pkmn (and the number of turns from each opponent pkmn is 0 to 1).

ForteGS

2008-06-22 05:18:47 pm

Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!

Quote from finalgamer23:

I did a practice speed run with no cheating and cheating...

practice run without cheats:2:31
team that beat elite 4 on first try

Blaziken
Kyogre

with cheating:1:47
reason it was shorter...using an AR getting all key items was done making walking thru the desert quicker without gym 4.

the final team was still blazkien and kyogre but blaziken was 7 levels weaker

So the HM slaves aren't in your group when you face the E4 (In box?), or are those the only 2 pokes who are fighting the E4?
You can cheat all you want, but runs with cheats will never be accepted.

finalgamer23

2008-06-22 07:27:38 pm

slice of pie

Quote from ForteGS:

Quote from finalgamer23:

I did a practice speed run with no cheating and cheating...

practice run without cheats:2:31
team that beat elite 4 on first try

Blaziken
Kyogre

with cheating:1:47
reason it was shorter...using an AR getting all key items was done making walking thru the desert quicker without gym 4.

the final team was still blazkien and kyogre but blaziken was 7 levels weaker

So the HM slaves aren't in your group when you face the E4 (In box?), or are those the only 2 pokes who are fighting the E4?
You can cheat all you want, but runs with cheats will never be accepted.

Blaziken and Kyogre are the only 2 fighting

DoubleThink

2008-06-23 03:19:25 am

There's a word for that

Quote from petrie911:

Zigzagoon, Tropius, and Sharpedo seem like good choices. For the Mossdeep Gym, it might even be better to run 2 sharpedoes, with the only problem that you'll have to dump castform in the PC (unless you can decline to take it). I completely forgot that you don't need strength until the seafloor cavern, which is why I suggested Aron earlier.

Nope, Castform is mandatory, unless your party is already full, which kind of defeats the purpose. And Blaziken isn't too bad in that battle either. Double Kick still hits okay, and more importantly the Solrock will sometimes use Sunny Day on turn 1 to hit Sharpedo with Solarbeam, allowing it to be hit with a powerful Overheat even through resistance. I don't know if one hit of Double Kick and Crunch will KO Lunatone though.

Greenalink

2008-06-23 03:48:15 am

DS Dictator

Lunatone has better Sp.Def than Solrock but you got to remember that it has to resist a 2xSTAB crunch from S.pedo and Double kick from Blaziken against his low def.
Fingers cross that L.Tone doesn't use Calm Mind to resist crunch.

DoubleThink

Edit history:

DoubleThink: 2008-06-23 05:35:28 am

2008-06-23 05:27:13 am

There's a word for that

Yeah and if it doesn't use Calm Mind it'll probably use Psychic and kill Blaziken >_> Just hope for a crit maybe, with 3 hits a turn (1 Crunch + 2 Double Kick) it shouldn't take more than a few tries @ 1/16 chance to crit.

Greenalink

2008-06-23 10:42:02 am

DS Dictator

Solrock
Lv. 42
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
Flamethrower
Psychic

Lunatone
Lv. 42
Calm Mind
Hypnosis
Light Screen
Psychic

From Bulbapedia.

With a Sharpedo, Lunatone cannot deal any damage to the shark. Solrock has got Solarbeam but requires 2 turns for the set up, it could use Flamethrower but its poor sp.atk makes it nearly pointless.
Taking out Lunatone is important because it contains Lightscreen and hypnosis which can shut your Pokémon down,

So focus your attacks on Lunatone for a one turn KO then depending on the attack used by Solrock use
Crunch from Sharpedo, Blaze Kick from Blaziken (remember Fire attacks = Special attacks > Double Kick on Solrock).

finalgamer23

2008-06-23 11:12:00 am

slice of pie

Quote from Greenalink:

Solrock
Lv. 42
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
Flamethrower
Psychic

Lunatone
Lv. 42
Calm Mind
Hypnosis
Light Screen
Psychic

From Bulbapedia.

With a Sharpedo, Lunatone cannot deal any damage to the shark. Solrock has got Solarbeam but requires 2 turns for the set up, it could use Flamethrower but its poor sp.atk makes it nearly pointless.
Taking out Lunatone is important because it contains Lightscreen and hypnosis which can shut your Pokémon down,

So focus your attacks on Lunatone for a one turn KO then depending on the attack used by Solrock use
Crunch from Sharpedo, Blaze Kick from Blaziken (remember Fire attacks = Special attacks > Double Kick on Solrock).

ive had the guide for ages..it tells what every gym leader and e4 person does and uses...

petrie911

2008-06-23 01:46:56 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote from Greenalink:

Blaze Kick from Blaziken (remember Fire attacks = Special attacks > Double Kick on Solrock).

You forget that Solrock resists Fire attacks through its rock type, while it is neutral to fighting attacks. This makes the damages nearly equal, but Double Kick does about 8% more damage.

Greenalink

2008-06-23 02:50:05 pm

DS Dictator

I know but if Blaziken surives (1/3 Hp left from Solrock's psychic) or ends up in Sunnyday the boost is x1.5 more and Crit hit factor is more likely to happen from a Blaze Kick.
Base damage from STAB, neutral double kick is 90.
STAB Blaze Kick is 85 x 1.5 (=STAB 127.5)x 1.5 from either Sun or Blaze ability, not both around 190.25 /2 = Around 95, there's even a chance that it will deal a critical hit.

Solrock's Base SP.Def = 65
Base Def = 85.
From Base Sp.Def @ level 50
Min EV, IV, Hindered nature= 63
Max EV, IV, boosted nature = 128.

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2008-06-23 05:38:53 pm

2008-06-23 05:33:51 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Hmm, I did forget the crit chance. Factoring in accuracy and crit chance, Blaze Kick has 4% more expected damage than double kick. So you can use Blaze Kick for more damage, but that comes with the 10% risk of missing.

Blaze or sunny day boosts obviously make blaze kick superior.

DoubleThink

Edit history:

DoubleThink: 2008-06-23 06:54:59 pm

2008-06-23 06:37:42 pm

There's a word for that

Um, at what point would you overwrite Overheat for Blaze Kick? >_> Even a non-sun-boosted Overheat has a stronger base power than Double Kick against rock/psychic. Also both Blaziken and Sharpedo should be faster than them so a Calm Mind on turn 1 is nothing to worry about. Battle should go something like this:
Turn 1, Double Kick + Crunch on Lunatone, hope for a crit, Luna dies, Solrock uses something
Turn 2, Overheat + Crunch on Solrock, should kill even without Sunny Day maybe I hope. Otherwise Solrock has to use it on turn 1.

finalgamer23

2008-06-23 07:29:31 pm

slice of pie

why are we only discussing gym 7?

its not that dang hard sillys...

Just catch a level 37 sharpedo and use surf 2x

DoubleThink

2008-06-23 09:51:09 pm

There's a word for that

The highest level Sharpedo can be caught at is 35. And Surf isn't very strong since it hits both, meaning damage is halved on each, meaning they're both still sitting there after turn 1. Also teaching Surf takes/wastes a few seconds.

craig

2008-07-08 02:50:07 pm

wat is speed run

Idkbutlike2

2008-07-10 09:32:02 am

My strategy for this kind of run would be to have a battle party of three and the rest just Pokemon that know HMs. The best starting party for a speed run would be:

Torchic of a nature that can kill the poochyena in the beginning with 2 hits
Zigzagoon with Pickup (if they have any other skills in the first place)
Wingull - can take down the first few gyms no problem

Always keep your starter (Torchic) 2 levels higher than your other battle party members.

Here's a training guide showing what levels your starter should be by the area (remember, other members of battle party are two levels below)

1st gym - lvl 16+

2nd gym - lvl 19+

beach near Slateport - 21+

facing May/Brandon - 25+

3rd gym - 28+

volcanic ash territory - 33+

4th gym - 36+

5th gym - 39+

6th gym - 43+

7th gym - 50+ (hey, its a long way there, you'll time)

8th gym - 55+

victory road - 58+

rstarting league - 63

DTaeKim

2008-07-10 10:36:18 am

Why does everyone insist on having more than one battle pokemon?

The starter should be your main aside from the 7th gym leader. You should stick with your starter until you get the legendary.

LordLocke

2008-07-10 04:33:42 pm

Yes, it's a ninja riding an invisible jet

IDK- That'd never work, because XP is an incredibly limited resource in a Pokemon run. There is no Gold Slime equivalent to sit down and get yourself an hour's worth of XP in one fight- in the average run, just your starter ALONE probably won't reach the levels you suggest, forget a team of three battle Pokemon. The game can be done without a level-up segment- it just takes a lot of planning and probably a few separate tries due to changing things like item pickups/purchaces and when/what TMs you use.

If your battle Pokemon is sufficiently leveled and you take some extra precautions against what can actually kill you, then there's only two points in the game where you need another Pokemon- one is Tate and Liza's gym, being a double-battle gym (especially if your starter is Blaziken- some people have suggested- and not without merit- using TWO different Pokemon instead of just adding in one.) and the other is the Elite 4, mostly because Drake laughs off all three starters and eats them with Dragon power, which is why you have Kyogre teach him humility with Ice Beam.

IDK- That'd never work, because XP is an incredibly limited resource in a Pokemon run.  There is no Gold Slime equivalent to sit down and get yourself an hour's worth of XP in one fight- in the average run, just your starter ALONE probably won't reach the levels you suggest, forget a team of three battle Pokemon.  The game can be done without a level-up segment- it just takes a lot of planning and probably a few separate tries due to changing things like item pickups/purchaces and when/what TMs you use.

If your battle Pokemon is sufficiently leveled and you take some extra precautions against what can actually kill you, then there's only two points in the game where you need another Pokemon- one is Tate and Liza's gym, being a double-battle gym (especially if your starter is Blaziken- some people have suggested- and not without merit- using TWO different Pokemon instead of just adding in one.) and the other is the Elite 4, mostly because Drake laughs off all three starters and eats them with Dragon power, which is why you have Kyogre teach him humility with Ice Beam.

Idkbutlike2

2008-07-11 10:06:22 am

Quote from DTaeKim:

Why does everyone insist on having more than one battle pokemon?

The starter should be your main aside from the 7th gym leader. You should stick with your starter until you get the legendary.

They have weaknesses that must be accounted for! Also, what if a gym leader is giving you constant trouble and your starter keeps fainting over and over again. You need a Pokemon to back it up in case that happens. Also, training a party from the start means not having to spend hours training a Pokemon you caught way later in the game that has way too much catching up to do...

Drake isn't a problem if you're running Sapphire because Kyogre knows Ice Beam and can take most of this Pokemon down easily.

Time

2008-07-11 10:47:03 am

Uhmm... but we know the all of the types the gyms have, and the only problem that you can come across is Tate and Liz. That's why we're suggesting sharpedo there. After that, there's no need for any other pokemon up until the elite 4.

LordLocke

2008-07-11 11:25:19 am

Yes, it's a ninja riding an invisible jet

Quote from Idkbutlike2:

Quote from DTaeKim:

Why does everyone insist on having more than one battle pokemon?

The starter should be your main aside from the 7th gym leader. You should stick with your starter until you get the legendary.

They have weaknesses that must be accounted for! Also, what if a gym leader is giving you constant trouble and your starter keeps fainting over and over again. You need a Pokemon to back it up in case that happens. Also, training a party from the start means not having to spend hours training a Pokemon you caught way later in the game that has way too much catching up to do...

Drake isn't a problem if you're running Sapphire because Kyogre knows Ice Beam and can take most of this Pokemon down easily.

Because that DOESN'T HAPPEN.

First off- what Pokemon caught at the start of the game is worth using? Zigzagoon? No. Tailow? No. Wingull? No. Poochyena? Aw hell no. Ralts? ... probably not, since it's first two evolutions suck horrifically and it needs TM help you might not be able to provide, but of anything you can acquire before the second gym, it's pretty much tops. After Brawly a couple interesting options show up (One TAS speed run rides Machop/Machoke for all it's bloody worth and then some) but at this point you're already going to have your starter significantly higher then anything you'll catch, so how would catching and training up some wussy second banana speed things up any?

Second- How are you going to make up for splitting the XP across a team? A single Pokemon that's 5-7 levels above the standard trainer can stomp pretty much any matchup into the ground with the right movepool- gym leaders tend to be the exception with stronger-evolution Pokemon and inflated levels that turn that number back around on you. Add a second Pokemon and suddenly your XP excess on one Pokemon becomes an XP deficit on two. The only Pokemon in the game worth adding that in is Kyogre, mostly because he doesn't NEED more XP to basically destroy whatever you'd bring him in on. So you're not really creating a deficit.

Third- We know what the gym leaders are, where the TMs we can use to give us an edge in them are, and what the problem gyms are for each route- Torchic starters will (surprisingly) have some issues with Wattson, REALLY won't like the Tate/Liza fight, and might need to ride Kyogre a little harder against the E4 overall. On the other hand, Mudkip starters will have a much bigger issue with Norman, and might need some good planning for Wallace, as well as have to completely ride Kyogre against Drake (albut having an easier time against the other members) The main differance is these gyms can still be beaten by just the starter (Blaziken vs Tate/Liza being the rule's exception using a one-battle Sharpedo sub) and in faster time then it would take to raise, TM, and utilize a counter-Pokemon.

For a speed run, adding more Pokemon is a waste of time, and thus goes against the nature of Speed Running the game. If you're looking for a Pokemon Run that might actually use (something closer to) a full team, wait for a Coliseum run- it's emphasis on double battles and the addition of Shadow Pokemon make it the only Pokemon game where using more then 1-2 pokes will actually quicken things up.

[quote="Idkbutlike2"]
[quote="DTaeKim"]
Why does everyone insist on having more than one battle pokemon?

The starter should be your main aside from the 7th gym leader.  You should stick with your starter until you get the legendary.
[/quote]

They have weaknesses that must be accounted for! Also, what if a gym leader is giving you constant trouble and your starter keeps fainting over and over again. You need a Pokemon to back it up in case that happens. Also, training a party from the start means not having to spend hours training a Pokemon you caught way later in the game that has way too much catching up to do...

Drake isn't a problem if you're running Sapphire because Kyogre knows Ice Beam and can take most of this Pokemon down easily.
[/quote]

Because that DOESN'T HAPPEN.

First off- what Pokemon caught at the start of the game is worth using?  Zigzagoon?  No.  Tailow?  No.  Wingull?  No.  Poochyena?  Aw hell no.  Ralts?  ... probably not, since it's first two evolutions suck horrifically and it needs TM help you might not be able to provide, but of anything you can acquire before the second gym, it's pretty much tops.  After Brawly a couple interesting options show up (One TAS speed run rides Machop/Machoke for all it's bloody worth and then some) but at this point you're already going to have your starter significantly higher then anything you'll catch, so how would catching and training up some wussy second banana speed things up any?

Second- How are you going to make up for splitting the XP across a team?  A single Pokemon that's 5-7 levels above the standard trainer can stomp pretty much any matchup into the ground with the right movepool- gym leaders tend to be the exception with stronger-evolution Pokemon and inflated levels that turn that number back around on you.  Add a second Pokemon and suddenly your XP excess on one Pokemon becomes an XP deficit on two.  The only Pokemon in the game worth adding that in is Kyogre, mostly because he doesn't NEED more XP to basically destroy whatever you'd bring him in on.  So you're not really creating a deficit.

Third- We know what the gym leaders are, where the TMs we can use to give us an edge in them are, and what the problem gyms are for each route- Torchic starters will (surprisingly) have some issues with Wattson, REALLY won't like the Tate/Liza fight, and might need to ride Kyogre a little harder against the E4 overall.  On the other hand, Mudkip starters will have a much bigger issue with Norman, and might need some good planning for Wallace, as well as have to completely ride Kyogre against Drake (albut having an easier time against the other members)  The main differance is these gyms can still be beaten by just the starter (Blaziken vs Tate/Liza being the rule's exception using a one-battle Sharpedo sub) and in faster time then it would take to raise, TM, and utilize a counter-Pokemon.

For a speed run, adding more Pokemon is a [i]waste of time[/i], and thus goes against the nature of Speed Running the game.  If you're looking for a Pokemon Run that might actually use (something closer to) a full team, wait for a Coliseum run- it's emphasis on double battles and the addition of Shadow Pokemon make it the only Pokemon game where using more then 1-2 pokes will actually quicken things up.

Idkbutlike2

2008-07-11 12:45:31 pm

Ok, since we seem to have the Pokemon down, lets get down to the serious part, the routes! I suggest some of the following:

1. Right after you have ownership of your starter, don't bother training it, just go right up to May/Brandon and fight.

2. After getting your Pokedex, running shoes, and pokeballs, proceed to the route west of Oldale. Battle only the youngster that first comes up. Avoid the rest of the trainers by moving through the grass.

3. When you get to Petalburg go straight to the gym and do that whole gay Wally catching his stupid Ralts scene. Now when you go back, pay slight attention to what your dad is saying so that you don't accidentally start seeing his second line (Starts with "Aren't you going to...").

4. Keep going east, just dash through the grass and face the rich kid.

5. Petalburg Forest is pretty straight forward.

6. After getting out, keep right next to the water to avoid the lass, then run to the next town (forgot the name). Face all the trainers in the gym, and make sure your starter is at lvl 16 by now. Beat Roxanne

7. Unfortunately you'll have to battle about 3 trainers on the next route and battle that Team Aqua/Magma grunt.

8. Run down to Mr. Brinney's house, and sail to Dewport.

9. Rather than going to the gym next, just go to the Granite cave and give the letter to Steven while training your starter

10. Beat gym trainers and Brawley.

11. Sale to Slateport beach, and face about 2 trainers before going to Slateport.

12. Talk to the captains assistant at the shipyard.

13. Go to the Museum and fight the Team Aqua/Magma grunts.

14. Run through the route below the bike road, facing like 3 trainers and May/Brandon.

15. Face Wally at Mauville and complete the Gym puzzle avoiding as many trainers as possible.

16. Get rock smash HM from the house across the street from the Pokemart.

17. Buy like 11 repels and head north. Battle about 6-8 trainers, but don't battle that many wild pokemon.

18. Get to the town by the volcanic ash route.

I'll finish the guide later

Ok, since we seem to have the Pokemon down, lets get down to the serious part, the routes! I suggest some of the following:

1. Right after you have ownership of your starter, don't bother training it, just go right up to May/Brandon and fight.

2. After getting your Pokedex, running shoes, and pokeballs, proceed to the route west of Oldale. Battle only the youngster that first comes up. Avoid the rest of the trainers by moving through the grass.

3. When you get to Petalburg go straight to the gym and do that whole gay Wally catching his stupid Ralts scene. Now when you go back, pay slight attention to what your dad is saying so that you don't accidentally start seeing his second line (Starts with "Aren't you going to...").

4. Keep going east, just dash through the grass and face the rich kid.

5. Petalburg Forest is pretty straight forward.

6. After getting out, keep right next to the water to avoid the lass, then run to the next town (forgot the name). Face all the trainers in the gym, and make sure your starter is at lvl 16 by now. Beat Roxanne

7. Unfortunately you'll have to battle about 3 trainers on the next route and battle that Team Aqua/Magma grunt.

8. Run down to Mr. Brinney's house, and sail to Dewport.

9. Rather than going to the gym next, just go to the Granite cave and give the letter to Steven while training your starter

10. Beat gym trainers and Brawley.

11. Sale to Slateport beach, and face about 2 trainers before going to Slateport.

12. Talk to the captains assistant at the shipyard.

13. Go to the Museum and fight the Team Aqua/Magma grunts.

14. Run through the route below the bike road, facing like 3 trainers and May/Brandon.

15. Face Wally at Mauville and complete the Gym puzzle avoiding as many trainers as possible.

16. Get rock smash HM from the house across the street from the Pokemart.

17. Buy like 11 repels and head north. Battle about 6-8 trainers, but don't battle that many wild pokemon.

18. Get to the town by the volcanic ash route.

I'll finish the guide later

Time

2008-07-11 01:05:42 pm

What about x-items? Would someone be able to list the amount of trainers we have to fight/ which trainers they are? Repels before the volano, etc.? I don't have sapphire at the moment, so I can't really help. Sorry.

Idkbutlike2

2008-07-11 05:28:36 pm

I'll try to get more specific next time, but useful items are very rare in any Pokemon game, the best being rare candy. I don't think think there are that many useful items up to that point. And when it comes to trainers Cool Trainers, Ninjas, Hikers and campers are the best for training.