Pokemon Sapphire/ruby speed run

2009-02-03 05:33:54 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

Blaziken dosen't learn sky uppercut until level 59, and it's at level 40-42 when I make it to evergrande city. I've tested it out, and Blaziken can beat sidney with just an X-Speed to outrun sharpedo and sweep with Brick Break. Glacia needs two bulk-ups and an X-Speed for a guaranteed sweep. I think it's easier to stick with kyogre exclusively after catching it just so it can get some extra experience. If I can get a torchic with Hidden Power Ice 70, it might be possible to use just it and skip catching kyogre. That's pretty unlikely though.

They'll accuse you of cheating if you do. Gia did the math, IIRC, and it's nuts.

Idkbutlike2

2009-02-03 05:46:46 pm

You're aiming at a crazy low level for Blaziken, but I guess if a test run succeeds, you could try it. Progress through Victory Road and the Pokemon League would be really slow though, not to mention the huge level disadvantage you have.

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-02-03 05:52:01 pm

In response to UltimateDarius, the best torchic I ever got had iv's of 14/30/31/30/30/31, so a hidden power poison 70. I put it out to stud in my emerald version.

As for the low level, X-items and bulk-up really help, not to mention rare candies.

Also, good luck to UltimateDarius and DoubleThink on your runs. The craziest thing I'm trying to do is get zigzagoon to pick-up
rare candies a total of six times so I can evolve before a difficult gym leader.

In my test run of ruby ( in restrospect, testing a sapphire run in ruby wasn't a good idea) I'm in the peatalburg gym, before the first
delcatty trainer with a time of 1:01 and I'm trying to manipulate rare candies from the trainers in here so I can evolve before fighting courtney in the weather institute. It should only take a few days.

UltimateDarius

2009-02-03 07:34:26 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

In response to UltimateDarius, the best torchic I ever got had iv's of 14/30/31/30/30/31, so a hidden power poison 70. I put it out to stud in my emerald version.

As for the low level, X-items and bulk-up really help, not to mention rare candies.

Also, good luck to UltimateDarius and DoubleThink on your runs. The craziest thing I'm trying to do is get zigzagoon to pick-up
rare candies a total of six times so I can evolve before a difficult gym leader.

In my test run of ruby ( in restrospect, testing a sapphire run in ruby wasn't a good idea) I'm in the peatalburg gym, before the first
delcatty trainer with a time of 1:01 and I'm trying to manipulate rare candies from the trainers in here so I can evolve before fighting courtney in the weather institute. It should only take a few days.

This should probably be obvious, but are you making sure to abuse the blaze ability when applicable?

Ascetic Swordsman

Edit history:

Ascetic Swordsman: 2009-02-03 09:02:02 pm

2009-02-03 08:49:42 pm

This is embarassing, but i've never taken advantage of that. :-[ There's five fights before Petalburg Gym where that would be useful.
Instead of a 2HKO I get a definate 1HKO as long as I can keep my health low and not faint.
After that I never use it again in favor of all physical attacks like Double Kick and Rock Tomb. The only other fire attack I use is Blaze Kick on Winona's skarmory. That's all it learns by level-up.

I have been trying to figure out how to get enough money to buy the coins for Flamethrower from the game corner. It involves
using pick-up to get 18 nuggets or being really lucky at the slots. If you can get it on your first visit to Mauville, you could be set
for a while. It would also be useful for Mudkip users so they can get ice beam early.

edit: I forgot to mention the first fire attack torchic learns is ember, and I now keep peck over it. I'll start looking into places where
blaze on ember and blaze kick would be more useful.

UltimateDarius

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2009-02-03 10:04:33 pm

2009-02-03 08:58:02 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

This is embarassing, but i've never taken advantage of that. :-[ There's five fights before Petalburg Gym where that would be useful.
Instead of a 2HKO I get a definate 1HKO as long as I can keep my health low and not faint.
After that I never use it again in favor of all physical attacks like Double Kick and Rock Tomb. The only other fire attack I use is Blaze Kick on Winona's skarmory. That's all it learns by level-up.

I have been trying to figure out how to get enough money to buy the coins for Flamethrower from the game corner. It involves
using pick-up to get 18 nuggets or being really lucky at the slots. If you can get it on your first visit to Mauville, you could be set
for a while. It would also be useful for Mudkip users so they can get ice beam early.

I'm not sure about this game, since I've only played it once...but look into hidden item collection/regular vitamin collection. Each sold vitamin=4800 pokedollars. Maybe it could help.

And on the blaze kick note, your base damage with STAB and blaze ability is 191, which is more powerful than...probably anything else you're doing in most situations. For PP conservation or whatever else you might need it for.

[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
This is embarassing, but i've never taken advantage of that.  :-[  There's five fights before Petalburg Gym where that would be useful.
Instead of a 2HKO I get a definate 1HKO as long as I can keep my health low and not faint.
After that I never use it again in favor of all physical attacks like Double Kick and Rock Tomb.  The only other fire attack I use is Blaze Kick on Winona's skarmory.  That's all it learns by level-up.

I have been trying to figure out how to get enough money to buy the coins for Flamethrower from the game corner.  It involves
using pick-up to get 18 nuggets or being really lucky at the slots.  If you can get it on your first visit to Mauville, you could be set
for a while.  It would also be useful for Mudkip users so they can get ice beam early.
[/quote]

I'm not sure about this game, since I've only played it once...but look into hidden item collection/regular vitamin collection.  Each sold vitamin=4800 pokedollars.  Maybe it could help.

And on the blaze kick note, your base damage with STAB and blaze ability is 191, which is more powerful than...probably anything else you're doing in most situations. For PP conservation or whatever else you might need it for.

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-02-03 10:26:33 pm

I haven't looked into blaze abuse yet, but I been looking at things I can pawn off, and there's not much.
You can recieve and find tm's for roar, dig, double team, thief, steel wing, bullet seed and sandstorm early on, but they don't sell for much. The only other items I can find are two proteins, two nuggets, two stardusts and an escape rope so I don't have to buy one.
There's pretty slim pickens early on. There more to be found, but not until after beating norman and getting surf. By then, it might be too late to be of any use since Combusken evolves and learns Blaze Kick soon.

BTW, the total amount of money that could be made from this is 30350.

UltimateDarius

2009-02-03 10:35:10 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

BTW, the total amount of money that could be made from this is 30350.

What about the trainers you have to fight? And how much cash do you need total? Does your list include any hidden items?

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-02-03 10:53:12 pm

Quote from UltimateDarius:

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

BTW, the total amount of money that could be made from this is 30350.

What about the trainers you have to fight? And how much cash do you need total? Does your list include any hidden items?

I spend all my money on items in Rustboro and Mauville. I need 9 repels until Lavaridge, when I buy 11 super repels, so that's 8650.
I need two escape ropes for granite cave and kyogre's lair. The X-Speeds are for fights against fast opponents and May's
Marshtomp who lowers my speed with mud-shot so it can finish the job with water gun. That's 12250 total, not including Super potions.
After buying everything I need I spend what's left on super potions. I even kept track of how much money I recieve from battle so I
can plan my purchases accordingly.

As for the flametrower tm, it costs 4000 coins so I'd need 80000 to buy the coins for it.

Now for the items. Bullet seed, roar, dig steel wing and thief you can get from talking to people. There's an ecsape rope visible in the first floor of the granite cave. Everthing else is hidden. If you need exact locations let me know. I checked serebii.net's pokearth, and they list items you can find everywhere, but they don't show where they are.

[quote="UltimateDarius"]
[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
BTW, the total amount of money that could be made from this is 30350.
[/quote]

What about the trainers you have to fight?  And how much cash do you need total?  Does your list include any hidden items?
[/quote]

I spend all my money on items in Rustboro and Mauville.  I need 9 repels until Lavaridge, when I buy 11 super repels, so that's 8650.
I need two escape ropes for granite cave and kyogre's lair. The X-Speeds are for fights against fast opponents and May's 
Marshtomp who lowers my speed with mud-shot so it can finish the job with water gun.  That's 12250 total, not including Super potions.
After buying everything I need I spend what's left on super potions.  I even kept track of how much money I recieve from battle so I
can plan my purchases accordingly.

As for the flametrower tm, it costs 4000 coins so I'd need 80000 to buy the coins for it.

Now for the items.  Bullet seed, roar, dig steel wing and thief you can get from talking to people.  There's an ecsape rope visible in the first floor of the granite cave.  Everthing else is hidden.  If you need exact locations let me know.  I checked serebii.net's pokearth, and they list items you can find everywhere, but they don't show where they are.

DoubleThink

2009-02-04 06:00:00 am

There's a word for that

No mention of Overheat? I thought that was what the White Herb was for >_> The only reason I can think of why Blaze Kick would be preferable is if you wanted to manipulate crits, and even then you have to wait until Blaziken actually evolves to use it, while Overheat you can use right after Flannery. And hey, even after the Spec Attk drop, it's still not that bad, if you even have to use it that many times in a battle (effectively base 70). Also, I had a bit of an idea last night: good ol' reliable STRENGTH. After Blaziken evolves, Bulk Up's use becomes limited, so it could potentially be replaced with Strength. This will help to conserve PP, and provide something to kill weaker enemies that doesn't require two hits (Double Kick), won't waste time with Super Effective messages (e.g. Rock Tomb on Zubat), and isn't Overheatkill. Secret Power can be gotten slightly earlier but I don't see it being all that useful.

Hmmm.... now that I think about it, it might still be worth it to use Blaziken after Kyogre is gotten, since just using Kyogre wastes quite a bit of time due to rain messages, especially through Victory Road. I also made my case for Hydro Pump vs Surf a few pages back. The trouble is that Blaziken really needs some extra levels to be truly effective, and Kyogre needs them or it could potentially miss out on some 1- or 2-hit KO's... and manipulating Rare Candies is hard Sad

This run is gonna be such a pain to plan D:

No mention of Overheat? I thought that was what the White Herb was for >_> The only reason I can think of why Blaze Kick would be preferable is if you wanted to manipulate crits, and even then you have to wait until Blaziken actually evolves to use it, while Overheat you can use right after Flannery. And hey, even after the Spec Attk drop, it's still not that bad, if you even have to use it that many times in a battle (effectively base 70). Also, I had a bit of an idea last night: good ol' reliable STRENGTH. After Blaziken evolves, Bulk Up's use becomes limited, so it could potentially be replaced with Strength. This will help to conserve PP, and provide something to kill weaker enemies that doesn't require two hits (Double Kick), won't waste time with Super Effective messages (e.g. Rock Tomb on Zubat), and isn't Over[size=7pt]heat[/size]kill. Secret Power can be gotten slightly earlier but I don't see it being all that useful.

Hmmm.... now that I think about it, it might still be worth it to use Blaziken after Kyogre is gotten, since just [i]using[/i] Kyogre wastes quite a bit of time due to rain messages, especially through Victory Road. I also made my case for Hydro Pump vs Surf a few pages back. The trouble is that Blaziken really needs some extra levels to be truly effective, and Kyogre needs them or it could potentially miss out on some 1- or 2-hit KO's... and manipulating Rare Candies is hard :(

This run is gonna be such a pain to plan D:

UltimateDarius

2009-02-04 07:43:45 am

Back in the game!

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

Quote from UltimateDarius:

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

BTW, the total amount of money that could be made from this is 30350.

What about the trainers you have to fight? And how much cash do you need total? Does your list include any hidden items?

I spend all my money on items in Rustboro and Mauville. I need 9 repels until Lavaridge, when I buy 11 super repels, so that's 8650.
I need two escape ropes for granite cave and kyogre's lair. The X-Speeds are for fights against fast opponents and May's
Marshtomp who lowers my speed with mud-shot so it can finish the job with water gun. That's 12250 total, not including Super potions.
After buying everything I need I spend what's left on super potions. I even kept track of how much money I recieve from battle so I
can plan my purchases accordingly.

As for the flametrower tm, it costs 4000 coins so I'd need 80000 to buy the coins for it.

Now for the items. Bullet seed, roar, dig steel wing and thief you can get from talking to people. There's an ecsape rope visible in the first floor of the granite cave. Everthing else is hidden. If you need exact locations let me know. I checked serebii.net's pokearth, and they list items you can find everywhere, but they don't show where they are.

Your Zigzagoon can learn Dig, which, IIRC, only sells for 1000 pokemoney. The two escape ropes that you're buying cost you 1100 pokemoney, plus you can now sell the one you picked up for 275 pokemoney, and the time it takes to use each is pretty close to the same. Not sure if that'll help at all.

For your super potions, you could easily manipulate pickup for those instead of purchasing at the expense of a few extra segments, and we all know that those potions add up quickly.

What about Fire Blast (multiple TMs worth of it) instead? Or does it come too late?

[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
[quote="UltimateDarius"]
[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
BTW, the total amount of money that could be made from this is 30350.
[/quote]

What about the trainers you have to fight?  And how much cash do you need total?  Does your list include any hidden items?
[/quote]

I spend all my money on items in Rustboro and Mauville.  I need 9 repels until Lavaridge, when I buy 11 super repels, so that's 8650.
I need two escape ropes for granite cave and kyogre's lair. The X-Speeds are for fights against fast opponents and May's 
Marshtomp who lowers my speed with mud-shot so it can finish the job with water gun.  That's 12250 total, not including Super potions.
After buying everything I need I spend what's left on super potions.  I even kept track of how much money I recieve from battle so I
can plan my purchases accordingly.

As for the flametrower tm, it costs 4000 coins so I'd need 80000 to buy the coins for it.

Now for the items.  Bullet seed, roar, dig steel wing and thief you can get from talking to people.  There's an ecsape rope visible in the first floor of the granite cave.  Everthing else is hidden.  If you need exact locations let me know.  I checked serebii.net's pokearth, and they list items you can find everywhere, but they don't show where they are.
[/quote]

Your Zigzagoon can learn Dig, which, IIRC, only sells for 1000 pokemoney.  The two escape ropes that you're buying cost you 1100 pokemoney, plus you can now sell the one you picked up for 275 pokemoney, and the time it takes to use each is pretty close to the same.  Not sure if that'll help at all.

For your super potions, you could easily manipulate pickup for those instead of purchasing at the expense of a few extra segments, and we all know that those potions add up quickly.

What about Fire Blast (multiple TMs worth of it) instead?  Or does it come too late?

DTaeKim

2009-02-04 12:46:57 pm

Fire Blast would be too late. By the time you have access to Fire Blast, there is only one gym between you and Kyogre.

Toothache

2009-02-04 02:24:24 pm

Let the music play!

Even if it speeds up a few battles, having Fire Blast access, even late into the run, is still worth considering. I mean, Steven's team are all Steel types, so it might be easier there for example. I'd imagine Metagross likely to survive even a Kyogre Surf at this point, so the extra power and super-effectiveness of Fire Blast would be a definite time saver. Whether it is overall worth the detour, I cannot say offhand, but it should still be considered before being dismissed out of hand.

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-02-04 04:15:44 pm

It looks like I've got a lot to respond to, so here goes.

Dig isn't aqurired until Fallarbor town, after I've already used an escape rope. I could use the one I get in the cave to escape it, and teach combusken dig for the Flannery fight, but it might be a slow tactic.

Using overheat's not a bad idea, since I rarely use blaze kick it could replace it, and with a white herb I get two uses in row. We need to find the best possible place to use it.

To get fire blast, we need to fight may again and buy it in Lilycove mart, which I don't believe is worth it. You can buy thunder for Kyogre there too, so I could be proved wrong about that.

Yes, manipulating rare-candies from pick-up is hard. It's a 1 in 100 chance, not including the odds of winning the fight. My test runs usually stall at this point since it takes so long to pull off, and I have to do it six times, but it's a huge timesaver.

On that note, I usually compensate for the lower levels of blaziken and kyogre by using bulk-up and calm mind to boost my stats. We should do some damage calculations to see what the minimum level is needed for a clean sweep against Wallace, the Elite four and Steven.

Finally, strength dosen't hit as hard as rock tomb against flyers, but if it gets the job done it would be better. I believe my route plan
was fine, now we just need to figure the fastest way to win all the battles. Testing on an emulator would be the most efficient way
to do so.

P.S. I really hate the "it's raining" text, but kyogre needs to be used more so it can get more experience. Blaziken can beat Wallace,
Sidney and Glacia with a bit of setup though so their times on those fights may be close.

It looks like I've got a lot to respond to, so here goes.

Dig isn't aqurired until Fallarbor town, after I've already used an escape rope.  I could use the one I get in the cave to escape it, and teach combusken dig for the Flannery fight, but it might be a slow tactic.

Using overheat's not a bad idea, since I rarely use blaze kick it could replace it, and with a white herb I get two uses in row.  We need to find the best possible place to use it.

To get fire blast, we need to fight may again and buy it in Lilycove mart, which I don't believe is worth it.  You can buy thunder for Kyogre there too, so I could be proved wrong about that.

Yes, manipulating rare-candies from pick-up is hard.  It's a 1 in 100 chance, not including the odds of winning the fight.  My test runs usually stall at this point since it takes so long to pull off, and I have to do it six times, but it's a huge timesaver.

On that note, I usually compensate for the lower levels of blaziken and kyogre by using bulk-up and calm mind to boost my stats.  We should do some damage calculations to see what the minimum level is needed for a clean sweep against Wallace, the Elite four and Steven.

Finally, strength dosen't hit as hard as rock tomb against flyers, but if it gets the job done it would be better.  I believe my route plan
was fine, now we just need to figure the fastest way to win all the battles.  Testing on an emulator would be the most efficient way 
to do so.

P.S. I really hate the "it's raining" text, but kyogre needs to be used more so it can get more experience.  Blaziken can beat Wallace,
Sidney and Glacia with a bit of setup though so their times on those fights may be close.

UltimateDarius

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2009-02-04 06:36:46 pm

2009-02-04 06:21:43 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

Dig isn't aqurired until Fallarbor town, after I've already used an escape rope. I could use the one I get in the cave to escape it, and teach combusken dig for the Flannery fight, but it might be a slow tactic.

I count 13 total super potions purchased. I'm not sure where this fits into the other discussion regarding the purchase of flamethrower, but if you luck pickup for them (3% chance instead of 1% for nuggets), you'll save 9100 pokemoney. Also later, if you can luck full restores for however many hyper potions you were going to buy, if the extra money could be put toward flamethrower. (although you may as well just luck nuggets now that I think about it, since full restores are also 1%)

Also, in fallarbor, have you considered giving the Move Tutor a heart scale and learning Fire Punch? I'm not sure where this compares to you having had blaze kick/flamethrower though.

Ascetic Swordsman

Edit history:

Ascetic Swordsman: 2009-02-04 07:10:45 pm

2009-02-04 06:57:48 pm

According to gamefaqs, which usually has trustworthy information, fire punch is only re-learnable in Diamond & Pearl. Combusken is at level 22 when I reach Mauville, where the game corner is. Blaziken learns Blaze Kick when after it evolves at Level 36, which with
rare candies I can make happen as early as before Norman, which takes a crazy amount of luck. At that point i'm not even manipulating
the RNG anymore, I'm date-raping it. I drugged it, and while it was under I figured out what I would need to do to it to get what I want.
That's what it would take to pull this off.

On a lighter note, I'm working on the strategy for Petalburg Gym. I've discovered it would take a blaze'd overheat to guarantee
a OHKO on linoone and zangoose, but not delcatty. As for Norman, you'd need to fully heal combusken and give it the white herb.
In battle, first use X-Speed and slaking weakens you into blaze range with facade. Then you'd bulk up while he's loafing so you can
OHKO vigoroth. Then heal with a super potion to survive, overheat while it's loafing and finish it next turn with Double kick.
Vigoroth should be OHKO with Double-kick. Finally, use overheat on slaking and hope it's a critical hit, otherwise hope it uses yawn and
finish it with Double-Kick. I haven't fully tested it, but it seems a little faster.

edit: I've got 10 super potions now and one I got with pick-up, so I probably don't need so many. Since we can take advantage of Blaze healing isn't as important. Also, the odds of getting a super potion from pick-up is 30%, revive, full heal, rare candy, nugget, full restore and an ultra ball is 10%. I also
think my earlier RNG comment might cause a bit of controversy.

According to gamefaqs, which usually has trustworthy information, fire punch is only re-learnable in Diamond & Pearl.  Combusken is at level 22 when I reach Mauville, where the game corner is.  Blaziken learns Blaze Kick when after it evolves at Level 36, which with 
rare candies I can make happen as early as before Norman, which takes a crazy amount of luck.  At that point i'm not even manipulating
the RNG anymore, I'm date-raping it.  I drugged it, and while it was under I figured out what I would need to do to it to get what I want.
That's what it would take to pull this off.

On a lighter note, I'm working on the strategy for Petalburg Gym.  I've discovered it would take a blaze'd overheat to guarantee
a OHKO on linoone and zangoose, but not delcatty.  As for Norman, you'd need to fully heal combusken and give it the white herb.
In battle, first use X-Speed and slaking weakens you into blaze range with facade.  Then you'd bulk up while he's loafing so you can 
OHKO vigoroth.  Then heal with a super potion to survive, overheat while it's loafing and finish it next turn with Double kick.
Vigoroth should be OHKO with Double-kick.  Finally, use overheat on slaking and hope it's a critical hit, otherwise hope it uses yawn and 
finish it with Double-Kick.  I haven't fully tested it, but it seems a little faster.

edit: I've got 10 super potions now and one I got with pick-up, so I probably don't need so many.  Since we can take advantage of Blaze healing isn't as important.  Also, the odds of getting a super potion from pick-up is 30%, revive, full heal, rare candy, nugget, full restore and an ultra ball is 10%. I also 
think my earlier RNG comment might cause a bit of controversy.

UltimateDarius

2009-02-04 07:05:52 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

According to gamefaqs, which usually has trustworthy information, fire punch is only re-learnable in Diamond & Pearl. Combusken is at level 22 when I reach Mauville, where the game corner is. Blaziken learns Blaze Kick when after it evolves at Level 36, which with
rare candies I can make happen as early as before Norman, which takes a crazy amount of luck. At that point i'm not even manipulating
the RNG anymore, I'm date-raping it. I drugged it, and while it was under I figured out what I would need to do to it to get what I want.
That's what it would take to pull this off.

On a lighter note, I'm working on the strategy for Petalburg Gym. I've discovered it would take a blaze'd overheat to guarantee
a OHKO on linoone and zangoose, but not delcatty. As for Norman, you'd need to fully heal combusken and give it the white herb.
In battle, first use X-Speed and slaking weakens you into blaze range with facade. Then you'd bulk up while he's loafing so you can
OHKO vigoroth. Then heal with a super potion to survive, overheat while it's loafing and finish it next turn with Double kick.
Vigoroth should be OHKO with Double-kick. Finally, use overheat on slaking and hope it's a critical hit, otherwise hope it uses yawn and
finish it with Double-Kick. I haven't fully tested it, but it seems a little faster.

You should look into the move tutor thing further, because in LG/FR, via the move relearner (same thing as the tutor in R/S), Charizard can learn Heat Wave, which is basically the same situation as fire punch for combuskion (sp?)

[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
According to gamefaqs, which usually has trustworthy information, fire punch is only re-learnable in Diamond & Pearl.  Combusken is at level 22 when I reach Mauville, where the game corner is.  Blaziken learns Blaze Kick when after it evolves at Level 36, which with 
rare candies I can make happen as early as before Norman, which takes a crazy amount of luck.  At that point i'm not even manipulating
the RNG anymore, I'm date-raping it.  I drugged it, and while it was under I figured out what I would need to do to it to get what I want.
That's what it would take to pull this off.

On a lighter note, I'm working on the strategy for Petalburg Gym.  I've discovered it would take a blaze'd overheat to guarantee
a OHKO on linoone and zangoose, but not delcatty.  As for Norman, you'd need to fully heal combusken and give it the white herb.
In battle, first use X-Speed and slaking weakens you into blaze range with facade.  Then you'd bulk up while he's loafing so you can 
OHKO vigoroth.  Then heal with a super potion to survive, overheat while it's loafing and finish it next turn with Double kick.
Vigoroth should be OHKO with Double-kick.  Finally, use overheat on slaking and hope it's a critical hit, otherwise hope it uses yawn and 
finish it with Double-Kick.  I haven't fully tested it, but it seems a little faster.
[/quote]

You should look into the move tutor thing further, because in LG/FR, via the move relearner (same thing as the tutor in R/S), Charizard can learn Heat Wave, which is basically the same situation as fire punch for combuskion (sp?)

Toothache

2009-02-04 10:10:38 pm

Let the music play!

I did some research of my own, and Blaziken can learn Fire Punch via the Move Relearner, but only in the Blaziken stage. It is not useful at all, however, since as you mention Blaze Kick is learned at L36, giving you 0 use out of Fire Punch, since that is what level Combusken evolves. Of course, the 10% miss chance of Blaze Kick might cause you a few minor problems, but Overheat has the same accuracy issue and is gained a lot sooner.

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-02-04 11:04:38 pm

Quote from Toothache:

I did some research of my own, and Blaziken can learn Fire Punch via the Move Relearner, but only in the Blaziken stage. It is not useful at all, however, since as you mention Blaze Kick is learned at L36, giving you 0 use out of Fire Punch, since that is what level Combusken evolves. Of course, the 10% miss chance of Blaze Kick might cause you a few minor problems, but Overheat has the same accuracy issue and is gained a lot sooner.

It looks like fire punch is only useful in a single segment run. On that note, the berries I suggested getting would be useful in a
SS run. Also, you can catch a shroomish is petalburg woods and have it sweep all the trainers in Rustboro Gym. Bullet seed is optional depending on how lucky you can get. If you grab the meteorite after beating Archie/Maxie you can take it to Prof. Cozmo in
Fallarbor town, where the move relearner is located, and he'll give you the return TM. I can't think of anyplace it would be useful right now.

That's all I've got for today. I'm still in petalburg gym manipulating rare candies. I've gotten one from the first trainer and I'm on the second. Afterwords, I can start to look for a faster strategy for the Norman fight. This part alone will take days to pull off because
of the luck involved, unless someone knows how to beat Winona with a Level 32 Combusken. I did some damage calculations and it would take five bulk-ups to guarantee a OHKO on all her pokemon, although you can Overheat Skarmory. Swellow is a pain because of it's high speed, stabbed, super-effective aerial ace and tendency to spam Double-Team. Feh.

[quote="Toothache"]
I did some research of my own, and Blaziken can learn Fire Punch via the Move Relearner, but only in the Blaziken stage. It is not useful at all, however, since as you mention Blaze Kick is learned at L36, giving you 0 use out of Fire Punch, since that is what level Combusken evolves. Of course, the 10% miss chance of Blaze Kick might cause you a few minor problems, but Overheat has the same accuracy issue and is gained a lot sooner. 
[/quote]

It looks like fire punch is only useful in a single segment run.  On that note, the berries I suggested getting would be useful in a
SS run.  Also, you can catch a shroomish is petalburg woods and have it sweep all the trainers in Rustboro Gym.  Bullet seed is optional depending on how lucky you can get.  If you grab the meteorite after beating Archie/Maxie you can take it to Prof. Cozmo in 
Fallarbor town, where the move relearner is located, and he'll give you the return TM.  I can't think of anyplace it would be useful right now.

That's all I've got for today.  I'm still in petalburg gym manipulating rare candies.  I've gotten one from the first trainer and I'm on the second.  Afterwords, I can start to look for a faster strategy for the Norman fight.  This part alone will take days to pull off because
of the luck involved, unless someone knows how to beat Winona with a Level 32 Combusken.  I did some damage calculations and it would take five bulk-ups to guarantee a OHKO on all her pokemon, although you can Overheat Skarmory.  Swellow is a pain because of it's high speed, stabbed, super-effective aerial ace and tendency to spam Double-Team.  Feh.

DoubleThink

2009-02-05 03:54:30 am

There's a word for that

I beat Winona with A Lv32 Combusken in my first run >_> This is what I did:
Swellow Lv31 (1075 exp, 2 Speed EV)
Use Bulk Up, then X Speed, then Double Kick (2x)
Skarmory Lv32 (1152 exp, 2 Defense EV), Combusken to Lv33
Use Bulk Up, then Overheat
Pelipper Lv30 (1053 exp, 2 Defense EV)
Use Rock Tomb (2x)
Altaria Lv33 (1329 exp, 2 Spec Def EV), Combusken to Lv34
Use Rock Tomb (2x)

Overheat would probably be a better choice for Swellow, and I think even a half-power one could one-hit Skarmory, so you could potentially equip something more situationally useful than the White Herb (Sitrus Berry maybe?). HOWEVER, I think there is a better alternative. I discussed available/hidden Rare Candies from here a while back, and the time 'lost' from getting these is pretty minimal; heck, you'll probably gain a lot of it back just in the Winona fight alone. You don't HAVE to manipulate all of them Wink

As for a single-segment, it's probably a good idea to just evolve Torchic before the first gym, since it really needs Roxanne's exp, otherwise you'll be taking on Brawly's gym with a Torchic, which is even worse. Every trainer up to Rustboro + the ones out on Route 116 provide good exp/time value, except for the Hiker (too hard to kill with Torchic), and arguably the Bug Catcher with the 6 Lv3 Wurmples (not worth it?).

I beat Winona with A Lv32 Combusken in my first run >_> This is what I did:
Swellow Lv31 (1075 exp, 2 Speed EV)
Use Bulk Up, then X Speed, then Double Kick (2x)
Skarmory Lv32 (1152 exp, 2 Defense EV), Combusken to Lv33
Use Bulk Up, then Overheat
Pelipper Lv30 (1053 exp, 2 Defense EV)
Use Rock Tomb (2x)
Altaria Lv33 (1329 exp, 2 Spec Def EV), Combusken to Lv34
Use Rock Tomb (2x)

Overheat would probably be a better choice for Swellow, and I think even a half-power one could one-hit Skarmory, so you could potentially equip something more situationally useful than the White Herb (Sitrus Berry maybe?). HOWEVER, I think there is a better alternative. I discussed available/hidden Rare Candies from [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,8412.msg252087.html#msg252087]here[/url] a while back, and the time 'lost' from getting these is pretty minimal; heck, you'll probably gain a lot of it back just in the Winona fight alone. You don't HAVE to manipulate all of them ;)

As for a single-segment, it's probably a good idea to just evolve Torchic before the first gym, since it really needs Roxanne's exp, otherwise you'll be taking on Brawly's gym with a Torchic, which is even worse. Every trainer up to Rustboro + the ones out on Route 116 provide good exp/time value, except for the Hiker (too hard to kill with Torchic), and arguably the Bug Catcher with the 6 Lv3 Wurmples (not worth it?).

Ascetic Swordsman

Edit history:

Ascetic Swordsman: 2009-02-05 06:16:46 am

2009-02-05 06:03:52 am

I've got it figured out now. I don't need to manipulate rare candies after Rustboro. After getting the Devon Scope, keep going to Lilycove, then backtrack to Mt. Pyre, fight team aqua and teleport back to Fortree to fight Winona. Combusken is at Level 33 by that point, so we only need the rare candies in the desert, slateport and the one in south-west 120.

I'm not planning a single-segment run, just throwing out ideas in case anyone else is, and I couldn't think of anything else to contribute.

As for my Ruby test run, I actually managed to manipulate some rare candies from the trainers there, and it only took a few hours. Of
course, now I realize I don't have to. It's slightly faster for the run this way, but it takes a lot of attempts to pull off. I've also made up
two new strategies that will definately work on Norman, so here we go.

Heal combusken before battle to full HP and give it the white herb. First turn, use X-Speed and have slaking use facade, you should barely survive, depending on your IV's. Then use X-Special while it loafs and finish it with Overheat. Vigoroth will need a Critical Hit from double kick to go down in one turn, and the second slaking also goes down easy with Overheat.

A modified version of my old strategy is to Bulk-up, bulk-up, super potion, bulk-up, bulk-up, X-Speed, sweep with double kick.

Finally, here's my incomple guide to every pokemon I fight and how much EXP and EV's they give.

Route 101

poochyena-15 exp, 1 attack ev

Route 103

mudkip-69 exp, 1 attack ev

Route 102

zigzagoon-63 exp, 1 speed ev
poochyena-58 exp, 1 attack ev
taillow-37 exp, 1 speed ev
zigzagoon-51 exp, 1 speed ev
zigzagoon-51 exp, 1 speed ev

Route 104

seedot-94 exp, 1 defence ev
taillow-100 exp, 1 speed ev
zigzagoon-90 exp, 1 speed ev
zigzagoon-90 exp, 1 speed ev
lotad-111 exp, 1 special defence ev
shroomish-97 exp, 1 hp ev

Petalburg woods

poochyena-105 exp, 1 attack ev
nincada-111 exp, 1 defence ev

Rustboro gym

-geodude-258 exp, 1 defence ev
-nosepass-346 exp, 1 defence ev

Rusturf tunnel

poochyena-129 exp, 1 attack ev

Dewford town

meditite-273 exp, 1 speed ev
machop-319 exp, 1 attack ev
makuhita-334 exp, 1 hp ev

Slateport city

carvanha-282 exp, 1 attack ev
zubat-162 exp, 1 speed ev
carvanha-264 exp, 1attack ev

Route 110

shroomish-250 exp, 1 hp ev
marshtomp-612 exp, 2 attack ev
numel-339 exp, 1 special attack ev

Mauville city

ralts-240 exp, 1 special attack
meditite-370 exp, 1 speed ev
voltorb-375 exp, 1 speed ev
voltorb-375 exp, 1 speed ev
voltorb-375 exp, 1 speed ev
magnemite-418 exp, 1 special attack
voltorb-441 exp, 1 speed ev
magneton-793 exp, 2 special attack

Route

wingull-246 exp, 1 speed ev
numel-339 exp, 1 special attack ev
roselia-585 exp, 1 special attack ev

Mt. Chimney

zubat-231exp, 1 speed ev
poochyena-235 exp, 1 attack ev
carvanha-377 exp, 1 attack ev
poochyena-235 exp, 1 attack ev
carvanha-377 exp, 1 attack ev
mightyena-658 exp, 2 attack ev
golbat-879 exp, 2 speed ev
sharpedo-937 exp, 2 attack ev

Lavaridge town

-slugma-433 exp, 1 special attack
-slugma-433 exp, 1 special attack
-torkoal-966 exp, 2 defence ev

Petalburg city

-delcatty-798 exp, 1 hp ev, 1 speed ev
-linoone-739 exp, 2 speed ev
-zangoose-954 exp, 2 attack ev
-slaking-1260 exp, 3 hp ev
-vigoroth-810 exp, 2 speed ev
-slaking-1395 exp, 3 hp ev

Weather Institute

-carvanha-528 exp, 1 attack ev
-poochyena-318 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-508 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-528 exp, 1 attack ev
-mightyena-768 exp, 2 attack ev

Route 119

-shroomish-403 exp, 1 hp ev
-marshtomp-936 exp, 2 attack ev
-numel-546 exp, 1 special attack ev

Fortree city

-doduo-617 exp, 1 attack ev
-swablu-475 exp, 1 special defence ev
-swellow-1075, 2 speed ev
-skarmory-1152, 2 defence ev
-pelipper-1053, 2 defence ev
-altaria-1329, 2 special defence ev

Mt. Pyre

-zubat-346 exp, 1 speed ev
-zubat-346 exp, 1 speed ev
-zubat-346 exp, 1 speed ev
-poochyena-364 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-583 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-583 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-583 exp, 1 attack ev

Aqua hideout

-carvanha-603 exp, 1 attack ev
-mightyena-877 exp, 2 attack ev
-sharpedo- 1200 exp, 2 attack ev

Mossdeep city

-xatu-1355 exp, 1 special attack and 1 speed ev
-lunatone-1350 exp, 2 special attack
-solrock-1350 exp, 2 attack ev

Seafloor cavern

-sharpedo-1425 exp, 2 attack ev
-mightyena-1042 exp, 2 attack ev
-mightyena-1124 exp, 2 attack ev
-crobat-1792 exp, 2 attack ev
-sharpedo-1612 exp, 2 attack ev

Sootopolis city

-luvdisc-942 exp, 1 speed ev
-whiscash-1422 exp, 2 hp ev
-sealeo-1097 exp, 2 hp ev
-seaking-1530 exp, 2 attack ev
-milotic-1962 exp, 2 special defence ev

Victory road

-roselia-1433 exp, 2 special attack ev
-altaria-1772 exp, 2 special defence ev
-delcatty-1271 exp, 1 hp and 1 speed ev
-roselia-1433 exp, 2 special attack ev
-magneton-1414 exp, 2 special attack ev
-gardevoir-2005 exp, 3 special attack ev

edit: I forgot about the rare candy in mt. pyre, it's an easy one so the desert rare candy should be skipped.

I've got it figured out now.  I don't need to manipulate rare candies after Rustboro.  After getting the Devon Scope, keep going to Lilycove, then backtrack to Mt. Pyre, fight team aqua and teleport back to Fortree to fight Winona.  Combusken is at Level 33 by that point, so we only need the rare candies in the desert, slateport and the one in south-west 120.

I'm not planning a single-segment run, just throwing out ideas in case anyone else is, and I couldn't think of anything else to contribute.

As for my Ruby test run, I actually managed to manipulate some rare candies from the trainers there, and it only took a few hours.  Of
course, now I realize I don't have to. It's slightly faster for the run this way, but it takes a lot of attempts to pull off.  I've also made up 
two new strategies that will definately work on Norman, so here we go.

Heal combusken before battle to full HP and give it the white herb.  First turn, use X-Speed and have slaking use facade, you should barely survive, depending on your IV's.  Then use X-Special while it loafs and finish it with Overheat.  Vigoroth will need a Critical Hit from double kick to go down in one turn, and the second slaking also goes down easy with Overheat.

A modified version of my old strategy is to Bulk-up, bulk-up, super potion, bulk-up, bulk-up, X-Speed, sweep with double kick.

Finally, here's my incomple guide to every pokemon I fight and how much EXP and EV's they give. [spoiler]Route 101

poochyena-15 exp, 1 attack ev

Route 103

mudkip-69 exp, 1 attack ev

Route 102

zigzagoon-63 exp, 1 speed ev
poochyena-58 exp, 1 attack ev
taillow-37 exp, 1 speed ev
zigzagoon-51 exp, 1 speed ev
zigzagoon-51 exp, 1 speed ev

Route 104

seedot-94 exp, 1 defence ev
taillow-100 exp, 1 speed ev
zigzagoon-90 exp, 1 speed ev
zigzagoon-90 exp, 1 speed ev
lotad-111 exp, 1 special defence ev
shroomish-97 exp, 1 hp ev

Petalburg woods

poochyena-105 exp, 1 attack ev
nincada-111 exp, 1 defence ev

Rustboro gym

-geodude-258 exp, 1 defence ev
-nosepass-346 exp, 1 defence ev

Rusturf tunnel

poochyena-129 exp, 1 attack ev

Dewford town

meditite-273 exp, 1 speed ev
machop-319 exp, 1 attack ev
makuhita-334 exp, 1 hp ev

Slateport city

carvanha-282 exp, 1 attack ev
zubat-162 exp, 1 speed ev
carvanha-264 exp, 1attack ev

Route 110

shroomish-250 exp, 1 hp ev
marshtomp-612 exp, 2 attack ev
numel-339 exp, 1 special attack ev

Mauville city

ralts-240 exp, 1 special attack
meditite-370 exp, 1 speed ev
voltorb-375 exp, 1 speed ev
voltorb-375 exp, 1 speed ev
voltorb-375 exp, 1 speed ev
magnemite-418 exp, 1 special attack
voltorb-441 exp, 1 speed ev
magneton-793 exp, 2 special attack

Route

wingull-246 exp, 1 speed ev
numel-339 exp, 1 special attack ev
roselia-585 exp, 1 special attack ev

Mt. Chimney

zubat-231exp,  1 speed ev
poochyena-235 exp, 1 attack ev
carvanha-377 exp, 1 attack ev
poochyena-235 exp, 1 attack ev
carvanha-377 exp, 1 attack ev
mightyena-658 exp, 2 attack ev
golbat-879 exp, 2 speed ev
sharpedo-937 exp, 2 attack ev

Lavaridge town

-slugma-433 exp, 1 special attack
-slugma-433 exp, 1 special attack
-torkoal-966 exp, 2 defence ev

Petalburg city

-delcatty-798 exp, 1 hp ev, 1 speed ev
-linoone-739 exp, 2 speed ev
-zangoose-954 exp, 2 attack ev
-slaking-1260 exp, 3 hp ev
-vigoroth-810 exp, 2 speed ev
-slaking-1395 exp, 3 hp ev

Weather Institute

-carvanha-528 exp, 1 attack ev
-poochyena-318 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-508 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-528 exp, 1 attack ev
-mightyena-768 exp, 2 attack ev

Route 119

-shroomish-403 exp, 1 hp ev
-marshtomp-936 exp, 2 attack ev
-numel-546 exp, 1 special attack ev
 
	Fortree city

-doduo-617 exp, 1 attack ev
-swablu-475 exp, 1 special defence ev
-swellow-1075, 2 speed ev
-skarmory-1152, 2 defence ev
-pelipper-1053, 2 defence ev
-altaria-1329, 2 special defence ev

Mt. Pyre

-zubat-346 exp, 1 speed ev
-zubat-346 exp, 1 speed ev 
-zubat-346 exp, 1 speed ev
-poochyena-364 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-583 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-583 exp, 1 attack ev
-carvanha-583 exp, 1 attack ev

Aqua hideout

-carvanha-603 exp, 1 attack ev
-mightyena-877 exp, 2 attack ev
-sharpedo-	1200 exp, 2 attack ev

Mossdeep city

-xatu-1355 exp, 1 special attack and 1 speed ev
-lunatone-1350 exp, 2 special attack
-solrock-1350 exp, 2 attack ev

Seafloor cavern

-sharpedo-1425 exp, 2 attack ev
-mightyena-1042 exp, 2 attack ev	
-mightyena-1124 exp, 2 attack ev
-crobat-1792 exp, 2 attack ev
-sharpedo-1612 exp, 2 attack ev

Sootopolis city

-luvdisc-942 exp, 1 speed ev
-whiscash-1422 exp, 2 hp ev
-sealeo-1097 exp, 2 hp ev
-seaking-1530 exp, 2 attack ev
-milotic-1962 exp, 2 special defence ev

Victory road

-roselia-1433 exp, 2 special attack ev
-altaria-1772 exp, 2 special defence ev
-delcatty-1271 exp, 1 hp and 1 speed ev
-roselia-1433 exp, 2 special attack ev
-magneton-1414 exp, 2 special attack ev
-gardevoir-2005 exp, 3 special attack ev
[/spoiler]

edit: I forgot about the rare candy in mt. pyre, it's an easy one so the desert rare candy should be skipped.

UltimateDarius

2009-02-05 07:27:16 am

Back in the game!

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

edit: I've got 10 super potions now and one I got with pick-up, so I probably don't need so many. Since we can take advantage of Blaze healing isn't as important. Also, the odds of getting a super potion from pick-up is 30%, revive, full heal, rare candy, nugget, full restore and an ultra ball is 10%. I also think my earlier RNG comment might cause a bit of controversy.

Yeah. I think that any potions you need should probably be obtained by pickup, since you don't need very many anyway. And the overall odds are 10% chance of obtaining any item, 30% of the time, that 10% yields a super potion and 10% of the time that original 10% chance yields one of those higher end items, which gives us our 3% and 1% overall odds. And the date rape thing is funny. I think more women should be drugged more often.

Back to the pickup thing, have you considered using/picking up PP ups in place of using ether/elixer/leppa berries, since not only is your max PP raised, but also your current goes up by the same percentage. It could prove useful, especially if there are places where you're forced into a full heal/restoration and/or it's really convenient (purification square in LG/FR comes to mind)

[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
edit: I've got 10 super potions now and one I got with pick-up, so I probably don't need so many.  Since we can take advantage of Blaze healing isn't as important.  Also, the odds of getting a super potion from pick-up is 30%, revive, full heal, rare candy, nugget, full restore and an ultra ball is 10%. I also think my earlier RNG comment might cause a bit of controversy.
[/quote]

Yeah.  I think that any potions you need should probably be obtained by pickup, since you don't need very many anyway.  And the overall odds are 10% chance of obtaining any item, 30% of the time, that 10% yields a super potion and 10% of the time that original 10% chance yields one of those higher end items, which gives us our 3% and 1% overall odds.  And the date rape thing is funny.  I think more women should be drugged more often.

Back to the pickup thing, have you considered using/picking up PP ups in place of using ether/elixer/leppa berries, since not only is your max PP raised, but also your current goes up by the same percentage.  It could prove useful, especially if there are places where you're forced into a full heal/restoration and/or it's really convenient (purification square in LG/FR comes to mind)

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-02-05 05:02:48 pm

Quote from UltimateDarius:

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

edit: I've got 10 super potions now and one I got with pick-up, so I probably don't need so many. Since we can take advantage of Blaze healing isn't as important. Also, the odds of getting a super potion from pick-up is 30%, revive, full heal, rare candy, nugget, full restore and an ultra ball is 10%. I also think my earlier RNG comment might cause a bit of controversy.

Yeah. I think that any potions you need should probably be obtained by pickup, since you don't need very many anyway. And the overall odds are 10% chance of obtaining any item, 30% of the time, that 10% yields a super potion and 10% of the time that original 10% chance yields one of those higher end items, which gives us our 3% and 1% overall odds. And the date rape thing is funny. I think more women should be drugged more often.

Back to the pickup thing, have you considered using/picking up PP ups in place of using ether/elixer/leppa berries, since not only is your max PP raised, but also your current goes up by the same percentage. It could prove useful, especially if there are places where you're forced into a full heal/restoration and/or it's really convenient (purification square in LG/FR comes to mind)

I think I'll manipulate some super potions against calvin and the battle girls in the gyms. I definately need at least two for the May V2
and Norman fight so combusken can survive a hit. Pick-up has a 5% chance of obtaining a PP UP, so that's probably out, and I don't think there are any that can be easily obtained until later in the game. I can however get an ether after James in Petalburg Woods, two
leppa berries outside Rustboro, and a max ether in Rusturf tunnel very easily. I only need the leppa berries, but an elixer might come in handy for combusken.

The only healing point other than the player's home in the game is a bed in the weather institute, and by that point combusken almost out of power points, so it's a good place to heal up. The only reason to go home would be to get the amulet coin from the player's mother after beating Norman. Rematches with the trainer's eye are unlocked after that, so I could fight winston over and over for money, but it's not very efficient. This game needs the VS Seeker badly.

[quote="UltimateDarius"]
[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
edit: I've got 10 super potions now and one I got with pick-up, so I probably don't need so many.  Since we can take advantage of Blaze healing isn't as important.  Also, the odds of getting a super potion from pick-up is 30%, revive, full heal, rare candy, nugget, full restore and an ultra ball is 10%. I also think my earlier RNG comment might cause a bit of controversy.
[/quote]

Yeah.  I think that any potions you need should probably be obtained by pickup, since you don't need very many anyway.  And the overall odds are 10% chance of obtaining any item, 30% of the time, that 10% yields a super potion and 10% of the time that original 10% chance yields one of those higher end items, which gives us our 3% and 1% overall odds.  And the date rape thing is funny.  I think more women should be drugged more often.

Back to the pickup thing, have you considered using/picking up PP ups in place of using ether/elixer/leppa berries, since not only is your max PP raised, but also your current goes up by the same percentage.  It could prove useful, especially if there are places where you're forced into a full heal/restoration and/or it's really convenient (purification square in LG/FR comes to mind)
[/quote]

I think I'll manipulate some super potions against calvin and the battle girls in the gyms.  I definately need at least two for the May V2
and Norman fight so combusken can survive a hit.  Pick-up has a 5% chance of obtaining a PP UP, so that's probably out, and I don't think there are any that can be easily obtained until later in the game.  I can however get an ether after James in Petalburg Woods, two
leppa berries outside Rustboro, and a max ether in Rusturf tunnel very easily.  I only need the leppa berries, but an elixer might come in handy for combusken.

The only healing point other than the player's home in the game is a bed in the weather institute, and by that point combusken almost out of power points, so it's a good place to heal up.  The only reason to go home would be to get the amulet coin from the player's mother after beating Norman.  Rematches with the trainer's eye are unlocked after that, so I could fight winston over and over for money, but it's not very efficient.  This game needs the VS Seeker badly.

DoubleThink

2009-02-05 08:06:58 pm

There's a word for that

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

After getting the Devon Scope, keep going to Lilycove, then backtrack to Mt. Pyre, fight team aqua and teleport back to Fortree to fight Winona.

Probably just a figure of speech, but you know you'll have Fly by then right?

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

edit: I forgot about the rare candy in mt. pyre, it's an easy one so the desert rare candy should be skipped.

Actually, the desert one is actually pretty quick to get, at least in a segmented where you can do it 'safely'. Or why not get both? Then you'll have up to 2 spare for Kyogre or Blaziken.

'nother note: Flash is also very fast to get in this game, and for a SS I'd definitely recommend it.

Ascetic Swordsman

2009-02-05 09:19:32 pm

Quote from DoubleThink:

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

After getting the Devon Scope, keep going to Lilycove, then backtrack to Mt. Pyre, fight team aqua and teleport back to Fortree to fight Winona.

Probably just a figure of speech, but you know you'll have Fly by then right?

Quote from Ascetic_Swordsman:

edit: I forgot about the rare candy in mt. pyre, it's an easy one so the desert rare candy should be skipped.

Actually, the desert one is actually pretty quick to get, at least in a segmented where you can do it 'safely'. Or why not get both? Then you'll have up to 2 spare for Kyogre or Blaziken.

'nother note: Flash is also very fast to get in this game, and for a SS I'd definitely recommend it.

I do have fly by then, but I can't use it until I defeat Winona. As for the desert rare candy, is it faster to get it from Lavaridge or Mauville?

Now for news from the ruby test run. I'm outside the magma hideout with a time of 1:28. The real run in sapphire should be a few minutes faster because of some of the new tactics. The Winona fight wasn't very hard, it just takes a little luck. Skarmory can be melted into an ashtray even with the SA drop, which is convienent since swellow was just turned into a pile of ash by Overheat.
Pelipper survives a rock tomb after one bulk-up, but with little health left. A few more levels and it could be beaten. Otherwise we still need two bulk-ups for a guaranteed KO on Pelipper and Altaria, which we already knew. In that case, it's better to teach combusken
strength over rock tomb because of the higher accuracy, which was also already pointed out. Sigh. The best time to set up
is up for debate. Swellow uses DT, Skarmory sand attacks, and pelipper uses super sonic.

[quote="DoubleThink"]
[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
After getting the Devon Scope, keep going to Lilycove, then backtrack to Mt. Pyre, fight team aqua and teleport back to Fortree to fight Winona.[/quote]Probably just a figure of speech, but you know you'll have Fly by then right?

[quote="Ascetic_Swordsman"]
edit: I forgot about the rare candy in mt. pyre, it's an easy one so the desert rare candy should be skipped.
[/quote]
Actually, the desert one is actually pretty quick to get, at least in a segmented where you can do it 'safely'. Or why not get both? Then you'll have up to 2 spare for Kyogre or Blaziken.

'nother note: Flash is also very fast to get in this game, and for a SS I'd definitely recommend it.
[/quote]

I do have fly by then, but I can't use it until I defeat Winona.  As for the desert rare candy, is it faster to get it from Lavaridge or Mauville?

Now for news from the ruby test run.  I'm outside the magma hideout with a time of 1:28.  The real run in sapphire should be a few minutes faster because of some of the new tactics.  The Winona fight wasn't very hard, it just takes a little luck.  Skarmory can be melted into an ashtray even with the SA drop, which is convienent since swellow was just turned into a pile of ash by Overheat.
Pelipper survives a rock tomb after one bulk-up, but with little health left.  A few more levels and it could be beaten.  Otherwise we still need two bulk-ups for a guaranteed KO on Pelipper and Altaria, which we already knew.  In that case, it's better to teach combusken
strength over rock tomb because of the higher accuracy, which was also already pointed out.  Sigh.  The best time to set up
is up for debate.  Swellow uses DT, Skarmory sand attacks, and pelipper uses super sonic.