Pokemon Sapphire/ruby speed run

2008-06-16 10:34:59 pm

slice of pie

Im thinking of doing this...

any way i can record.
my gc disc thing wont work so i cant play on big screen
cant hook gbas to pc so thats not right either..

but yeah..since i have both i may try a 7-10 segment trial.

if sapphire:
strter will be treecko
if ruby:
starter will be mudkip

any speed tips given will help

Thread title:

petrie911

2008-06-16 11:01:46 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

speed tip number one is to use torchic over treecko. Fire/Fighting has huge type coverage and Blaziken has great stats and moves to back them up. Grass is a so-so attacking type, and Sceptile has almost no movepool for this kind of thing.

MarioMan2.0

2008-06-16 11:08:06 pm

Nom nom nom.

It worked for me in Red and Blue to just focus on character the entire game. Since there are a good portion of double battles throughout R/S, do you think focusing on only two characters that are opposite types might be beneficial to finishing the game as quickly as possible?

DoubleThink

2008-06-17 01:20:53 am

There's a word for that

There is a grand total of ONE forced double battle in the whole game, that being Liza and Tate, which the idea was I think to catch a Sharpedo to help with, as well as to be a Dive/Waterfall slave. And yeah, don't choose Treecko, the Dark/Water Carvanha family that Team Aqua uses are weak to Fighting anyway. That and Treecko/Grovyle can't even hurt anything not named Geodude until they learn Leaf Blade >_>

finalgamer23

2008-06-17 12:02:56 pm

slice of pie

I took the Torchic thing into affect..heres what i did and tried to get it done in a time limit of 12 minutes..

Level torchic up to Combusken
catch a lotad and get it to lombre
and have ralts.
get the first and second badge
i managed to do it in a time of 15 minutes top..so theres some improvemetns that can be made

finalgamer23

2008-06-17 04:13:07 pm

slice of pie

anyone care to help me on my speed run?

Current

Torchic-lvl 9
Petalburg woods
0:10

finalgamer23

2008-06-17 05:00:15 pm

slice of pie

also would it go agains SR rules to make all pokemon you encounter shiny??
this means torchic or mudkip would be shiny at start of game..

so is it ok??

also where could i get a gameboy player?

Greenalink

2008-06-17 05:21:48 pm

DS Dictator

There's hardly any difference with shiny monsters... might look good on the quality but in speedrunning there's no difference.
Look online for a GB player (Amazon, Ebay, Play.com).

finalgamer23

2008-06-17 05:43:38 pm

slice of pie

Quote from Greenalink:

There's hardly any difference with shiny monsters... might look good on the quality but in speedrunning there's no difference.
Look online for a GB player (Amazon, Ebay, Play.com).

id have to use AR..ive decided i may not use shinies for the run as it may mess up the game altogether.

So im planning this for now.
Start with torchic...
get to first gym...ehh..torchic is useless right then.
what other pokemon should i be using??
im not collectiong cut or flash..they are not needed really.

MTGjumper

2008-06-18 03:45:17 am

Wouldn't it make the run slower if all shinies were used, due to the two second shiny animation at the start of each battle?

Also, I wouldn't think using AR to make cosmetic changes to the game would be allowed. It would draw suspicions as to you using "no wild pokemon" cheats.

finalgamer23

2008-06-18 11:14:04 am

slice of pie

Quote from MTGjumper:

Wouldn't it make the run slower if all shinies were used, due to the two second shiny animation at the start of each battle?

Also, I wouldn't think using AR to make cosmetic changes to the game would be allowed. It would draw suspicions as to you using "no wild pokemon" cheats.

actually i cant use that on AR 5.9
Also i hunted and i dont believe that to be a real code..

I watched TAS video of pokemon sapphire on google.com
they beat the game in 1 hour and 35 minutes flat

-they manipulated luck
-aimed for fastest time
-used mach bike only
paralyzed machoke on purpose to use facade on all of elite four
-they beat the game with these stats
lvl 29 marshtomp
lvl 46 Machoke
forgot the other 2

I watched..i dont think i can beat it that fast but maybe 2 hours at the most is how fast you can beat it

finalgamer23

2008-06-18 01:26:43 pm

slice of pie

anyone care to help me at this point in my practice speed run..time sux harshly i know..

badges :3
pokedex:2

Current party:
lvl 32 Combusken
Double kick
Rock tomb
Rock smash
Ember

time...a shitty time.....1:49

TimeSpaceMage

2008-06-18 03:22:28 pm

A hat riding a mage?!

I would've caught a Zigzagoon for Rock Smash and Surf, and maybe a Geodude for Strength if Combusken doesn't need it. (He probably does, though I'm used to Swampert runs). You can catch Wailmer for Dive/Waterfall, and make sure you get a flyer before Mt. Pyre so you can get to Slateport afterwards.

Verdanturf has X Special and Mauville has the others. Also get lots of repels if you haven't already.

Not really sure what the fastest route is from Meteor Falls to Mt. Chimney, but I'd go through the other side and down to Rustboro so you can get Strength in Rusturf Tunnel. There are fewer trainers to avoid, anyway.

finalgamer23

2008-06-18 04:06:53 pm

slice of pie

Quote from TimeSpaceMage:

I would've caught a Zigzagoon for Rock Smash and Surf, and maybe a Geodude for Strength if Combusken doesn't need it. (He probably does, though I'm used to Swampert runs). You can catch Wailmer for Dive/Waterfall, and make sure you get a flyer before Mt. Pyre so you can get to Slateport afterwards.

Verdanturf has X Special and Mauville has the others. Also get lots of repels if you haven't already.

Not really sure what the fastest route is from Meteor Falls to Mt. Chimney, but I'd go through the other side and down to Rustboro so you can get Strength in Rusturf Tunnel. There are fewer trainers to avoid, anyway.

Ive done most of that already and now have my 5th badge in the practice run..

current party
lvl 37 Blaziken
Double kick(always handy unless pokemon is ghost or psychic)
Rock tomb
rock smash
Blaze Kick

lvl 21 Trapinch
(going to level it up to 35 and teach it fly in this run)

lvl 21 Cacnea
(will be needed for its grass and dark attacks on gym 7)

getting ready to catch zigzagoon for surf..then going to switch to pelliper or tentacool

[quote="TimeSpaceMage"]
I would've caught a Zigzagoon for Rock Smash and Surf, and maybe a Geodude for Strength if Combusken doesn't need it. (He probably does, though I'm used to Swampert runs). You can catch Wailmer for Dive/Waterfall, and make sure you get a flyer before Mt. Pyre so you can get to Slateport afterwards.

Verdanturf has X Special and Mauville has the others. Also get lots of repels if you haven't already.

Not really sure what the fastest route is from Meteor Falls to Mt. Chimney, but I'd go through the other side and down to Rustboro so you can get Strength in Rusturf Tunnel. There are fewer trainers to avoid, anyway.
[/quote]

Ive done most of that already and now have my 5th badge in the practice run..

current party
lvl 37 Blaziken
Double kick(always handy unless pokemon is ghost or psychic)
Rock tomb
rock smash
Blaze Kick

lvl 21 Trapinch
(going to level it up to 35 and teach it fly in this run)

lvl 21 Cacnea
(will be needed for its grass and dark attacks on gym 7)

getting ready to catch zigzagoon for surf..then going to switch to pelliper or tentacool

PMIT

2008-06-18 05:04:53 pm

No, raising Trapinch to Vibrava (can that even learn Fly? I know Flygon can, but I don't know about that) for Fly and using an un-leveled Cacnea for a battling partner just won't work. Your best bet at this point is to hope for a Tropius to appear and teach it Fly while heading to Fortree. In fact, I don't think there's a need to enter the desert in the first place...

petrie911

2008-06-18 05:11:51 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

You don't need to level up any pokemon for HMs.

Zigzagoon can handle Cut, Surf, and Rock Smash.
Aron can do strength and Rock smash
Wingull can handle Fly.
Tentacool can do Dive and Waterfall.

All are very common and can be caught before you need their HM. Your fished up Sharpedoes (for Mossdeep) can take over surfing duty for Zigzagoon. And Kyogre can replace one of the Sharpedoes.

finalgamer23

2008-06-18 06:42:29 pm

slice of pie

my actual plan is really this...

Blaziken will cover rock smash for me
Vibrava will cover fly,strength
Cacnea is simply for gym 7
Zigzagoon will do surf
then when i get a sharpedo or wailmer im going to have them handle the water HM moves

so i have it mostly covered.
I just have to figure a quick fix for the steel pokemon in the elite four

petrie911

2008-06-18 08:44:00 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

But you waste valuable time and experience getting a Vibrava when you could just level up Blaziken.

Also, I made a slight error when I pointed those Pokemon out. Obviously the Sharpedoes can handle all of your waterfall and dive needs, so Tentacool is wholly unnecessary. Zigzagoon can still be cut from the team when Kyogre rolls around, though.

finalgamer23

2008-06-18 09:47:24 pm

slice of pie

Quote from petrie911:

But you waste valuable time and experience getting a Vibrava when you could just level up Blaziken.

Also, I made a slight error when I pointed those Pokemon out. Obviously the Sharpedoes can handle all of your waterfall and dive needs, so Tentacool is wholly unnecessary. Zigzagoon can still be cut from the team when Kyogre rolls around, though.

Why would i use a silly kyorge?
i could simply knock it out for easy exp for everyone.
for the elite four it should be simple...

Blaziken:first and second elite four members
Cacturne:third elite four member
vibrava and sharpedo will take on drako with ground,ice,and dragon attacks
then for wallace:
Blaziken will handle-Aggron,skarmory, and possibly the pesky metagross
Cacturne can handle-Armaldo,lileeps evolved form,possibly aggron
Flygon will get-Aggron,and steves other pokemon

I have the elites covered..i just need to obtain a damn super rod for sharpedo or possibly wailord the tank...

MTGjumper

2008-06-19 02:01:59 am

Kyogre is almost mandatory for a run like this to work. If you are planning on doing a speed-run, levelling up abunch of pokemon for a team wastes far too much time; Kyogre and Blaziken as a team can sweep the E4 by themselves.

LordLocke

2008-06-19 06:09:48 am

Yes, it's a ninja riding an invisible jet

You don't need Team Diversity- you need a Pokemon capable of pretty much kicking the head in of everything that you come across. A Pokemon with good attack stats, some decent movepool diversity, and enough speed to go first for at least a majority of the game's encounters.

Generally, this means a starter, since most Pokemon you find early in the game lack in (at least) one of those areas and Pokemon you find too much later means wasting time leveling them to where the starter would be (not worth it in most instances, although I've seen TAS runs using Pokemon found a little before/after the first gym) Many starters do too (Trecko-line, for example, has great stats but an awful movepool) so it's a matter of figuring out which one is the most well-rounded. R/S did that for you though, by creating a Fire/Fighting, which combined as STAB has very few Pokemon it can't hurt (Most notable being Gyarados, which is why it keeps getting mentioned by name)

Raising a full team of Pokemon in speedrun conditions is folly. Assuming you wind up splitting your XP almost evenly and don't stumble on any stopping points BEFORE the Elite 4 (I don't see you getting past Norman's superbuff Slackings with attempts at raising a balanced team without a level-up segment, but for the sake of arguement), you'll likely be walking into the E4 with level 35-ish Pokemon at best- a good 20 levels below theirs. Even if you're using SE moves, everything will still be a 2-4 hit KO, and you'll be a 1-2 hitter without setup (IE, wasting more time) Whereas a single Pokemon might be in their late 50s or better and can probably 1-2 hit KO a lot of stuff, and switch Kyogre in for what they can't.

Torchic/Blaziken's the best starter because of it's learned move list (Sceptile has all of one useful attack and a whole lotta junk. Swampert's ends on some high notes like Earthquake but has issues with accuracy and power for most of it's life) and it's type coverage. Bar none, the hardest gym before the E4 is Norman's, especially at low levels, so having a part-fighting type is a huge leg-up.

The only other Pokemon Ru/Sa gives early enough with the stats and moves to consider using in place of a starter is Ralts who gets huge Special Attack, similar speed to Blaziken and Psychic at the low, low level of 26, on top of other handy moves like Calm Mind and Teleport (for speed run purposes)... but suffers with bad primary type coverage (Darks completely walls psychic, Steels and other psychics resist, and all will be found on gym leader/E4 teams) and the only move that'll be found during the course of a Speed Run playthrough that adds anything meaningful is Shockwave, a meager 60-power Electric attack. There's a TAS out there that used Machop/Machoke for the duration of the run after Gym #2, but it relies on typical TAS tricks like Crit hitting and Quick Claw boosts every turn (Allowing Machoke to remain paralyzed for the duration of the run to abuse Guts) which is about as feasable in a standard run as... well, trying to run a balanced team.

You don't need Team Diversity- you need a Pokemon capable of pretty much kicking the head in of everything that you come across.  A Pokemon with good attack stats, some decent movepool diversity, and enough speed to go first for at least a majority of the game's encounters.

Generally, this means a starter, since most Pokemon you find early in the game lack in (at least) one of those areas and Pokemon you find too much later means wasting time leveling them to where the starter would be (not worth it in most instances, although I've seen TAS runs using Pokemon found a little before/after the first gym)  Many starters do too (Trecko-line, for example, has great stats but an awful movepool) so it's a matter of figuring out which one is the most well-rounded.  R/S did that for you though, by creating a Fire/Fighting, which combined as STAB has very few Pokemon it can't hurt (Most notable being Gyarados, which is why it keeps getting mentioned by name)

Raising a full team of Pokemon in speedrun conditions is folly.  Assuming you wind up splitting your XP almost evenly and don't stumble on any stopping points BEFORE the Elite 4  (I don't see you getting past Norman's superbuff Slackings with attempts at raising a balanced team without a level-up segment, but for the sake of arguement), you'll likely be walking into the E4 with level 35-ish Pokemon at best- a good 20 levels below theirs.  Even if you're using SE moves, everything will still be a 2-4 hit KO, and you'll be a 1-2 hitter without setup (IE, wasting more time)   Whereas a single Pokemon might be in their late 50s or better and can probably 1-2 hit KO a lot of stuff, and switch Kyogre in for what they can't.

Torchic/Blaziken's the best starter because of it's learned move list (Sceptile has all of one useful attack and a whole lotta junk.  Swampert's ends on some high notes like Earthquake but has issues with accuracy and power for most of it's life) and it's type coverage.  Bar none, the hardest gym before the E4 is Norman's, especially at low levels, so having a part-fighting type is a huge leg-up.

The only other Pokemon Ru/Sa gives early enough with the stats and moves to consider using in place of a starter is Ralts who gets huge Special Attack, similar speed to Blaziken and Psychic at the low, low level of 26, on top of other handy moves like Calm Mind and Teleport (for speed run purposes)... but suffers with bad primary type coverage (Darks completely walls psychic, Steels and other psychics resist, and all will be found on gym leader/E4 teams) and the only move that'll be found during the course of a Speed Run playthrough that adds anything meaningful is Shockwave, a meager 60-power Electric attack.  There's a TAS out there that used Machop/Machoke for the duration of the run after Gym #2, but it relies on typical TAS tricks like Crit hitting and Quick Claw boosts every turn (Allowing Machoke to remain paralyzed for the duration of the run to abuse Guts) which is about as feasable in a standard run as... well, trying to run a balanced team.

finalgamer23

2008-06-19 10:40:43 am

slice of pie

yeah..but heres what i did for quite a bit of my speed run...
i purposely fought some fights before gym 1 so i could get the double kick attack..

I pretty much used Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken solo for the first 5 gyms
the only thing to waste my time is i had to keep running back and forth to get the right level.

that didnt become an issue for gym 5..I only had to use double kick on every pokemon
that gave torchic quite a advantage

now that i hae trapinch/vibrava..my flying and ground type moves are covered.
Now i just need a water pokemon or 2 to handle all the water HM moves and i should finish strong quickly..

its a practice run though so keep it in mind.
Im also going to buy a gameboy player maybe next week..

LordLocke

2008-06-19 02:16:57 pm

Yes, it's a ninja riding an invisible jet

Why do you need ground moves?

Rock-types die to fighting attacks. Blaziken gets Double-Kick at level 16 when it evolves to it's second stage, you can buy Brick Break from the department store, and if you want to try for some AI hax, Brawly gives you the Focus Punch TM.

Few electric types have resistance to any of your attack types, and the most common one with any resistance issues (Magnemite/Magneton) happens to be weak to BOTH of your primary types. You have Steel Types beyond covered, so they're not even worth considering.

Poison-types resist Fighting but take normal damage from Fire. The only poison type that's a concern is Tentacool/Tentacruel, and they have awful defense. Strength on Blaziken will probably take care of it, or if you prefer no HMs on a main battler, it gets Slash. (Return might be an option- I don't know how far off the beaten path TM 27 is, but I think it's a rather short detour)

Flying's even more redundant since two of the types it DOES cover (Grass and Bug) are ALREADY handled by Fire. The only new type coverage it'd give is Fighting- none of which are all that dangerous to Blaziken to begin with.

If you MUST raise a second Pokemon, it needs to be one who can cover types you're going to have problems with. Basically, type combos that resist both Fire and Fighting (The only ones that show up with any consistency are Water/Poison Tentacruel, Water/Flying Gyarados, and Flying/Dragon Altaria and a single Salamance) Tentacruel dies to a strong normal attack, even without STAB, coming off of Blaziken's 120 base attack. Altaria, similarly, won't be able to survive a normal-typed beating although it might take two rounds. Salamance doesn't roll around until the E4, at which point you have Kyogre and Ice Beam. That just leaves Gyarados, who sturdy enough to survive a couple non-STAB'd beatings, has enough offensive power to be a concern, and doesn't have a lot of weaknesses- just Rock (which it covers as a Water-type offensively making counter-typing it a bad choice,) and Electric (quad-weak)

So if for some reason you were actually going to raise a second pokemon for actual battle (Say, Gym 7, which is the only required double-battle in the game I know of) an Electric type would give you the only real additional coverage you could ask for. And none of the Electric types you'll stumble across in a normal playthrough are worth really considering for use- Manectric only gets Spark and has defense issues, Magneton, Electrode, and Chinchou are too far off the beaten path and comes too late into the run to consider using (and the first two have learned move issues as well) and Plusle or Minun... no. Just no.

Besides, while it's not the perfect solution, Blaziken can learn Rock Tomb, which you get right from Roxanne's gym. Which isn't great (and once/if Blaziken gets Return, completely pointless since even with type advantage Return'd out-damage it on anything that didn't resist Normal) but it can suffice.

Why do you need ground moves?

Rock-types die to fighting attacks.  Blaziken gets Double-Kick at level 16 when it evolves to it's second stage, you can buy Brick Break from the department store, and if you want to try for some AI hax, Brawly gives you the Focus Punch TM.

Few electric types have resistance to any of your attack types, and the most common one with any resistance issues (Magnemite/Magneton) happens to be weak to BOTH of your primary types.  You have Steel Types beyond covered, so they're not even worth considering.

Poison-types resist Fighting but take normal damage from Fire.  The only poison type that's a concern is Tentacool/Tentacruel, and they have awful defense.  Strength on Blaziken will probably take care of it, or if you prefer no HMs on a main battler, it gets Slash.  (Return might be an option- I don't know how far off the beaten path TM 27 is, but I think it's a rather short detour)

Flying's even more redundant since two of the types it DOES cover (Grass and Bug) are ALREADY handled by Fire.  The only new type coverage it'd give is Fighting- none of which are all that dangerous to Blaziken to begin with.

If you MUST raise a second Pokemon, it needs to be one who can cover types you're going to have problems with.  Basically, type combos that resist both Fire and Fighting  (The only ones that show up with any consistency are Water/Poison Tentacruel, Water/Flying Gyarados, and Flying/Dragon Altaria and a single Salamance)  Tentacruel dies to a strong normal attack, even without STAB, coming off of Blaziken's 120 base attack.  Altaria, similarly, won't be able to survive a normal-typed beating although it might take two rounds.  Salamance doesn't roll around until the E4, at which point you have Kyogre and Ice Beam.  That just leaves Gyarados, who sturdy enough to survive a couple non-STAB'd beatings, has enough offensive power to be a concern, and doesn't have a lot of weaknesses- just Rock (which it covers as a Water-type offensively making counter-typing it a bad choice,) and Electric (quad-weak)

So if for some reason you were actually going to raise a second pokemon for actual battle (Say, Gym 7, which is the only required double-battle in the game I know of) an Electric type would give you the only real additional coverage you could ask for.  And none of the Electric types you'll stumble across in a normal playthrough are worth really considering for use- Manectric only gets Spark and has defense issues, Magneton, Electrode, and Chinchou are too far off the beaten path and comes too late into the run to consider using (and the first two have learned move issues as well) and Plusle or Minun... no.  Just no.

Besides, while it's not the perfect solution, Blaziken can learn Rock Tomb, which you get right from Roxanne's gym.  Which isn't great (and once/if Blaziken gets Return, completely pointless since even with type advantage Return'd out-damage it on anything that didn't resist Normal) but it can suffice.

Greenalink

2008-06-19 02:27:54 pm

DS Dictator

You can't buy Brick Break in Ruby/Sapphire. You can only buy Brick Break in Firered/LeafGreen Celadon's Department store.

LordLocke

2008-06-19 02:51:36 pm

Yes, it's a ninja riding an invisible jet

I just checked- you're right. Bummer. Having to wait until Sootopolis or level 59 for an upgrade to Double Kick (Unless you're going for Save Hax with Focus Punch) is a bit of of a downer. Still, 30x2 Fighting can still hurt with STAB and 120 base attack.