Pokemon Sapphire

2007-07-08 07:36:14 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

In light of the fact that there is currently no speed run for pokemon sapphire, I'd like to try one. I've researched the problem areas and here's what I got.

Blaziken
Blaze Kick
Brick Break
Earthquake
Fire Blast

Kyogre
Surf
Ice Beam
Thunder
Hydro Pump

The Elite Four should be no problem. Kyogre's Ice Beam will KO all of Drake's pokemon in one hit at 4X effectiveness, and blaziken can really take care of the rest.

I'm probably going to end up getting the super rod and catching a water pokemon for tate and lisa. I really see no way in beating her with just blaziken. Their levitate ability doesn't allow earthquake to conquer, and blaziken is weak to psychic in the first place. Maybe if this was diamond and pearl, I could switcheroo an iron ball to one of them and kill one with earthquake, then slowly kill the other, but no. I'm thinking of getting a sharpedo, since he's also dark, making their psychic attacks useless against him. I could also get Pelipper, however, and maybe eliminate having to get the super rod in the first place. I'm not sure if you can catch Pelippers at a high enough level, though.

Anyways, if you guys have any advice for me, that'd be great. Thanks!

Thread title:

In light of the fact that there is currently no speed run for pokemon sapphire, I'd like to try one.  I've researched the problem areas and here's what I got.

[u]Blaziken[/u]
Blaze Kick
Brick Break
Earthquake
Fire Blast

[u]Kyogre[/u]
Surf
Ice Beam
Thunder
Hydro Pump

The Elite Four should be no problem.  Kyogre's Ice Beam will KO all of Drake's pokemon in one hit at 4X effectiveness, and blaziken can really take care of the rest.

I'm probably going to end up getting the super rod and catching a water pokemon for tate and lisa.  I really see no way in beating her with just blaziken.  Their levitate ability doesn't allow earthquake to conquer, and blaziken is weak to psychic in the first place.  Maybe if this was diamond and pearl, I could switcheroo an iron ball to one of them and kill one with earthquake, then slowly kill the other, but no.  I'm thinking of getting a sharpedo, since he's also dark, making their psychic attacks useless against him.  I could also get Pelipper, however, and maybe eliminate having to get the super rod in the first place.  I'm not sure if you can catch Pelippers at a high enough level, though.

Anyways, if you guys have any advice for me, that'd be great.  Thanks!

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2007-07-08 08:04:30 am

2007-07-08 07:58:39 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Get a gameboy player if you don't already have one. That is absolutely essential.

You may want to Super Rod up some Sharpedo for Tate/Liza. Dual surfs and Psychic immune FTW.

Also, practice avoiding unnecessary trainer battles, and don't forget the Mach Bike.

Lastly, you may want to consider Overheat over Fire Blast or Blaze Kick. Overheat is for those things that just need to die (Steven's pokemon, for example), and has better accuracy. Also, Sky Uppercut should be in there instead of brick break. The lowered accuracy won't matter in seg'd, but the extra power and PP will.

jasonsw88

2007-07-08 09:38:18 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yes, I do have a gameboy player, which is one of the reasons why I want to try this out. The only thing I'm missing is the gamecube device that lets you record your games (without using a tape). If you guys have any info on what that is, how to get it, or how to use it that'd be awesome.

Here's the bike problem. Yes, the mach bike is made for speed and will get me places faster than the acro bike. But, I think that the mach bike is too fast for a speed demo. Unless I save every 30 seconds while I'm traveling places, I can't prevent making a few mistakes on the mach bike, because it's so fast. Saving more often means more time, so I'll probably end up with the same traveling time no matter which bike I use. Plus, you have to consider trying to weave inbetween the trainers and everything, which in certain areas is almost impossible with the mach bike. I could use the acro bike just for the hard areas, but then you'd have to factor in the time it takes to switch bikes. I think that I will just use the acro bike through the whole game, except when I need the mach bike to travel up mud.

I have thought about the possibility of using Overheat. The problem is that overheat has only 20 more power, and yet lowers special attack so low after one use it's almost worthless. If I attach a charcoal to blaziken, that brings his fireblast to an already-overpowering fire attack that's sure to kill almost any pokemon, especially one's weak to fire, and especially if he's low on HP. If blaziken is low on hp, fire blast will do 120 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 405 damage on a regularly-effected pokemon (charcoal, blaze ability, same type attack as pokemon). Even on steven's metagross, even if blaziken wasn't low on hp, that'd do 120 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 2 = 540 damage.
As far as blaze kick goes, my hands are kinda tied. I can't teach him flamethrower because it costs 4000 coins at the casino, which would take forever to get. I could use a heart scale to teach him fire punch, but that attack has 10 less damage even though it has 5 more PP. Plus, blaze kick has a high critical hit ratio, which could really be helpful in segmented games. I think blaze kick and fire blast are the best bet.

I would REALLY love to have sky uppercut over brick break, but I really don't have any choice in the matter. Blaziken doesn't learn sky uppercut until level 59, and I'm positive I won't be anywhere near that level even AFTER I beat the elite four. Now, it is true that combusken learns sky uppercut at level 50, but that would mean I'd have to go 14 extra levels without evolving, making it even harder to get through the last gym trainers. Plus, I'd have to miss out on learning blaze kick until after I evolve combusken at level 50. I'm not even sure I'll make it to level 50 without leveling up before the elite four. I don't think its worth thinking about getting sky uppercut, it only has 10 more power anyways.

Yes, I do have a gameboy player, which is one of the reasons why I want to try this out.  The only thing I'm missing is the gamecube device that lets you record your games (without using a tape).  If you guys have any info on what that is, how to get it, or how to use it that'd be awesome.

Here's the bike problem.  Yes, the mach bike is made for speed and will get me places faster than the acro bike.  But, I think that the mach bike is too fast for a speed demo.  Unless I save every 30 seconds while I'm traveling places, I can't prevent making a few mistakes on the mach bike, because it's so fast.  Saving more often means more time, so I'll probably end up with the same traveling time no matter which bike I use.  Plus, you have to consider trying to weave inbetween the trainers and everything, which in certain areas is almost impossible with the mach bike.  I could use the acro bike just for the hard areas, but then you'd have to factor in the time it takes to switch bikes.  I think that I will just use the acro bike through the whole game, except when I need the mach bike to travel up mud.

I have thought about the possibility of using Overheat.  The problem is that overheat has only 20 more power, and yet lowers special attack so low after one use it's almost worthless.  If I attach a charcoal to blaziken, that brings his fireblast to an already-overpowering fire attack that's sure to kill almost any pokemon, especially one's weak to fire, and especially if he's low on HP.  If blaziken is low on hp, fire blast will do 120 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 405 damage on a regularly-effected pokemon (charcoal, blaze ability, same type attack as pokemon).  Even on steven's metagross, even if blaziken wasn't low on hp, that'd do 120 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 2 = 540 damage.
As far as blaze kick goes, my hands are kinda tied.  I can't teach him flamethrower because it costs 4000 coins at the casino, which would take forever to get.  I could use a heart scale to teach him fire punch, but that attack has 10 less damage even though it has 5 more PP.  Plus, blaze kick has a high critical hit ratio, which could really be helpful in segmented games.  I think blaze kick and fire blast are the best bet.

I would REALLY love to have sky uppercut over brick break, but I really don't have any choice in the matter.  Blaziken doesn't learn sky uppercut until level 59, and I'm positive I won't be anywhere near that level even AFTER I beat the elite four.  Now, it is true that combusken learns sky uppercut at level 50, but that would mean I'd have to go 14 extra levels without evolving, making it even harder to get through the last gym trainers.  Plus, I'd have to miss out on learning blaze kick until after I evolve combusken at level 50.  I'm not even sure I'll make it to level 50 without leveling up before the elite four.  I don't think its worth thinking about getting sky uppercut, it only has 10 more power anyways.

jasonsw88

2007-07-08 09:43:07 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'm sorry, I just realized I had those calculations wrong. The first should be 120 x 2.5 = 300, the second should be 120 x 3 = 360. Even so, the power of fire blast would outdo even explosion, so I don't need overheat.

DTaeKim

Edit history:

DTaeKim: 2007-07-08 09:20:27 pm

2007-07-08 09:19:23 pm

The problem with the Acro Bike is that running is almost as fast as the bike itself. The Mach Bike must be used, and if you can't use it well enough, you're going to have to practice.

Someone had posted a time at the Elite Four of 2:27. My personal best was 2:38 with Blaziken/Kyogre.

Next, Blaziken will not be used after catching Kyogre, period. My Blaziken ended with Double Kick/Bulk Up/Overheat/Rock Tomb.

Kyogre should have Calm Mind over Hydro Pump. I have no idea why you want to keep Hydro Pump.

jasonsw88

2007-07-09 02:31:13 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I guess I will have to use the mach bike. I thought that the acro bike was needed a lot more than the mach bike for its special moves, but I guess it should work out.

I had Kyogre with hydro pump because I didn't think it would need another attack considering I was just going to use him for Wallace and Drake. If I use kyogre for the rest of the game and MOST of the elite four, I will need calm mind for sure. Thanks a lot for the tips!

DTaeKim

2007-07-09 03:26:21 am

You never need the Acro Bike's unique moves, which is why the Mach Bike is the better choice without a question.

Most of the Elite Four? Kyogre is the Pokemon to use for Wallace and the Elite Four, Steven included. The moveset you should use is Surf/Calm Mind/Thunder/Ice Beam and carry an Elixir with you. You also want to make sure Kyogre doesn't have a speed-reducing nature.

jasonsw88

2007-07-09 05:59:29 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

What items do you suggest I attach to kyogre/blaziken?

FractalFusion

2007-07-09 09:44:46 am

This topic might help:

http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=consoles_newer;action=display;num=1142262409

Avoid the random-looking trainers. Sometimes, if you run, you can draw the attention of trainers and then walk by them.

About held items, I can't think of anything other than Quick Claw. If there is a better item, let me know. Maybe berries if you really need it.

jasonsw88

2007-07-09 10:37:49 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yeah, I was practicing that today. There's a random looking trainer on the very first route, and I was practicing getting by him as soon as possible.

There are definitely better items, but its useless thinking about them because you can only get them from the battle tower. But, the scope lens or brightpowder would be awesome items to attach. I personally was talking about items like the leppa berry, which would save me time by automatically restoring PP to moves like double kick and surf, and would also allow me to not have to find more ethers/elixers. Or, attaching a charcoal to blaziken or a nevermeltice to kyogre. Quick Claw would definitely be nice, though. Any suggestions?

DTaeKim

2007-07-10 05:08:23 am

I don't remember using one, though I probably should have done so with Blaziken.

I attached a Mystic Water to Kyogre though. I don't know if it made a difference or not.

jasonsw88

2007-07-11 01:19:31 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yeah, I'll probably end up attaching quite a few lum berries to blaziken throughout the game. That will probably save me a bit of time in the long run.

petrie911

2007-07-11 03:25:28 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Mystic Water gives +10% damage to all water moves, BTW. It probably won't be useful unless you find that you just need a little more power to KO. Quick Claw is a little more manipulate-able, and Leppa and Lum always come in handy.

And there's something to be said for packing your party with Zigzagoons. Rare candy pickups can be great, and there's a few other helpful items in there (full heal, full restore, PP Up, etc). Unfortunately, you've only got a 1% chance of getting that rare candy after a battle (10% for pickup, 10% for rare candy).

yoshmaster5

2007-07-11 04:53:36 am

Also tenkiforecast

I think the only possible issue with Lum berries is amount you get in the game... other than that, the idea looks good so far.

As for actual progress...
GOOD GOD GET A SHARPEDO FOR TATE/LIZA.
*tried going through with Blaziken to get a good Kyogre for D/P* ... holy god, that was a PAIN. X_x; I didn't get the sharpedo... I had to rely on bulk up and hope that tate/liza didn't gang up on Blaziken. took a VERY long time.

jasonsw88

2007-07-11 07:39:39 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I know how the pickup ability works in diamond and pearl, and if it works the same in sapphire as D/P, its useless to try to make use of it. I'd have to have at least a level 31 linoone for there to be a 0.5% chance of me getting a rare candy, and at least a level 41 linoone for there to be a 1% chance. Now, I can get Full Restores with at least a level 21 linoone, but the chances are so slim there's no point. For it to be worthwhile, I'd need a level 41 linoone, and by the time I run into one of those, I'll be almost done with the game. That's a really good idea, but it doesn't work in speed runs. I'll just get all the rare candies and ethers/elixers I can find in the game without it being too out of the way. Same thing with the lum/leppa berries. I'll only get the ones that are sitting "right there", I won't do any planting and harvesting. I like the idea of the quick claw, I'll research how effective surf is against the elite four and the victory road trainers.

petrie911

2007-07-11 09:00:49 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

RS doesn't work like DP. In RS, Pickup is independent of level. You have 30% super potion, 10% each of rare candy, nugget, full heal, full restore, and revive, 5% protein, 4% PP Up, and 1% King's Rock. Overall 10% chance of pickup activating after a battle.

jasonsw88

2007-07-11 09:54:52 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Wow, really? Dang, looks like it might be plausible after all... Zigzagoon can learn Cut, Surf, and Rock Smash so I would probably have to catch one anyways. Now the only question is how many should I catch? Does anybody know if there's any HMs that I don't actually need? I know I don't need flash, but do I need every other one?

petrie911

2007-07-11 07:51:05 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I don't think you need Cut, oddly enough. Fly is not necessary, either, but it is recommended.

jasonsw88

2007-07-11 08:06:56 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yeah, I definitely still will get fly, because there's no beating how fast it gets you places. Are you sure you don't need cut? Aren't there any gym leaders that you need cut in order to get to?

yoshmaster5

2007-07-11 08:43:52 pm

Also tenkiforecast

I'm almost positive you need cut... I'd have to run through again to be sure. :ph43r:

ForteGS

2007-07-11 08:55:06 pm

Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!

As far as I can remember,
Cut's only use is for some items in the world and for the Trick House.

jasonsw88

2007-07-12 02:00:50 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well, I hope its not needed, but I don't think it matters all that much, because I'll be catching a zigzagoon anyways...

FractalFusion

2007-07-12 02:03:29 am

You don't need Cut.

What ForteGS said is basically it for Cut.

DTaeKim

2007-07-12 05:27:31 am

Cut is definitely unneeded. Skipping Fly is stupid because you get it automatically after defeating the rival after the weather institute.

Second, I suggest being careful with your choice of Pokemon. Zizagoon is given because of Surf. You probably want a Wingull for Fly, and you're going to need a Sharpedo or Tentacool for Dive and Waterfall. You get Castform automatically, and Kyogre fills the last slot. If you decide to catch another Zizagoon, this means that you will need to spend a few seconds withdrawing Kyogre from the PC and dropping that Zizagoon in the PC.

As for Tate & Liza, I've managed to pull it off without catching Sharpedo. It is a pain in the ass, granted. Basically, Blaziken needs to be able to 2HKO Lunatone and have the partner Pokemon take all of the attacks.

Left Ventricle

2007-07-12 08:46:30 am

Right aorta

Quote:

As for Tate & Liza, I've managed to pull it off without catching Sharpedo. It is a pain in the ass, granted. Basically, Blaziken needs to be able to 2HKO Lunatone and have the partner Pokemon take all of the attacks.

Mightyena can potentially solo them. I essentially cheated my ass off and spammed X items (special specifically) while the rest of my team took it like champs. Six X Specials + Bite = 2HKO on both of them at LV 29, assuming they don't Calm Mind too much.