Pokemon Ranger: Guardian Signs

marioman99

2011-01-18 06:00:44 pm

super mario is amazing

Have grown obsessed with this game, and am wondering: Would 100% be all 301 pokemon registered and all quests finished?

Thread title:

Nightmare

2011-01-19 10:14:13 am

I'd say the Pokedex, but you do need to do the quests to do that, so yes.

I'd also have a separate track for the Past too, though that'd have to be segmented.

-James

marioman99

2011-01-20 07:52:48 pm

super mario is amazing

Most of any run would be spent on Raikou/Entei/Suicune/Staraptor/Lati@s. The highlights would probably be saving Pokemon with certain field moves for a really long time until you needed them. and I don't think ANYONE should/would attempt this single segment. Maybe an any% or low%, but not a 100%, that would be like trying to speedrun New Super Mario Bros Wii 100% SS. Finally, probably the best strat for a segmented 100% would be maxing Latent Power and never recharging. That would be crazy Smiley

damon07

2015-01-16 07:45:57 pm

Planning on putting an any% route together for this game. However, unless some major skips are found, this is gonna be one long-ass run. Despite the fact that this game is 50% dialogue/cutscene, it should be fun. Doing a casual playthrough at the moment and already getting a bunch of ideas.

damon07

2015-01-18 04:40:53 am

Just finished a test run that clocked out at 8:20:14, or 8:24:07 depending on when time ends, which I haven't decided yet. Even longer than I expected it to be. That being said, I had no route planned out, only a vague idea of what to do at each part. I mainly did this to get familiar with the general route/length of the run, to get ideas for the actual route, and to have splits. All of the above were accomplished.

Damn, I'm tired now. There'd be better be some huge skips that are found soon. >_>

SirRouven

2015-01-18 06:20:48 am

I am kinda surprised to see that there are other people running Pokémon Ranger, too.

Which version of the game did you use for this run? I suppose you used the american version because 8 hours seems too long for japanese.
Just so you know, I did a lot of runs of the first ranger game and the game version makes a huge difference.
With the english version I saved like 10-15 minutes over the german version and with the japanese version I saved like 5-10 minutes over the english version.
In Ranger 3, this could result into an advantage of more than 30 minutes because that game has even more text.
Also, did you record this in any way? I would like to take a look at your run.
Maybe we can race this game in the future. I would be happy to do so.

I don´t know if you started routing this game, yet but I would offer to help with the route since I want to speedrun this game in the future.

Regarding timing:
I would suggest to start timing after you selected "New Game" on the title screen and to end timing after the sound of the last "Mission Completed" animation ended. Atleast that is how I do it for Ranger 1 and I think that this is a nice way to end the run.

I am kinda surprised to see that there are other people running Pokémon Ranger, too.

Which version of the game did you use for this run? I suppose you used the american version because 8 hours seems too long for japanese.
Just so you know, I did a lot of runs of the first ranger game and the game version makes a huge difference.
With the english version I saved like 10-15 minutes over the german version and with the japanese version I saved like 5-10 minutes over the english version.
In Ranger 3, this could result into an advantage of more than 30 minutes because that game has even more text.
Also, did you record this in any way? I would like to take a look at your run.
Maybe we can race this game in the future. I would be happy to do so.

I don´t know if you started routing this game, yet but I would offer to help with the route since I want to speedrun this game in the future.

Regarding timing:
I would suggest to start timing after you selected "New Game" on the title screen and to end timing after the sound of the last "Mission Completed" animation ended. Atleast that is how I do it for Ranger 1 and I think that this is a nice way to end the run.

damon07

Edit history:

damon07: 2015-01-18 12:19:52 pm

2015-01-18 11:53:52 am

Quote from SirRouven:

I am kinda surprised to see that there are other people running Pokémon Ranger, too.

Which version of the game did you use for this run? I suppose you used the american version because 8 hours seems too long for japanese.
Just so you know, I did a lot of runs of the first ranger game and the game version makes a huge difference.
With the english version I saved like 10-15 minutes over the german version and with the japanese version I saved like 5-10 minutes over the english version.
In Ranger 3, this could result into an advantage of more than 30 minutes because that game has even more text.
Also, did you record this in any way? I would like to take a look at your run.
Maybe we can race this game in the future. I would be happy to do so.

I don´t know if you started routing this game, yet but I would offer to help with the route since I want to speedrun this game in the future.

Regarding timing:
I would suggest to start timing after you selected "New Game" on the title screen and to end timing after the sound of the last "Mission Completed" animation ended. Atleast that is how I do it for Ranger 1 and I think that this is a nice way to end the run.

Thanks for the repsonse! Always really enjoyed the Ranger games, and I just found my copy of this game the other day and thought why not? Unfortunately, I don't have a Japanese DS or copy of the game. I'm sure it would save loads of time due to you just sitting through dialogue for a huge portion of this run. Also, no way of recording my (3)DS at the moment (I know, I'm a total scrub). Still, racing this game sometime would be fun if that's cool with you.

Once I fully route the game, or if I need help routing a specific part, any of your feedback would be great! Thanks!

Regarding timing, I wasn't sure if I should stop time when you summon Ho-Oh at the end of the game (the last thing you actually do before the game is completed) or at the final Mission Clear animation. The only reason for this is, like I said, once you summon Ho-Oh the game is basically completed, but you have to wait through another 4 minutes of dialogue before the Mission Clear animation actually happens. Whatever seems best, I suppose.

Looking forward to possible future collaboration!

[quote="SirRouven"]I am kinda surprised to see that there are other people running Pokémon Ranger, too.

Which version of the game did you use for this run? I suppose you used the american version because 8 hours seems too long for japanese.
Just so you know, I did a lot of runs of the first ranger game and the game version makes a huge difference.
With the english version I saved like 10-15 minutes over the german version and with the japanese version I saved like 5-10 minutes over the english version.
In Ranger 3, this could result into an advantage of more than 30 minutes because that game has even more text.
Also, did you record this in any way? I would like to take a look at your run.
Maybe we can race this game in the future. I would be happy to do so.

I don´t know if you started routing this game, yet but I would offer to help with the route since I want to speedrun this game in the future.

Regarding timing:
I would suggest to start timing after you selected "New Game" on the title screen and to end timing after the sound of the last "Mission Completed" animation ended. Atleast that is how I do it for Ranger 1 and I think that this is a nice way to end the run.[/quote]

Thanks for the repsonse! Always really enjoyed the Ranger games, and I just found my copy of this game the other day and thought why not? Unfortunately, I don't have a Japanese DS or copy of the game. I'm sure it would save loads of time due to you just sitting through dialogue for a huge portion of this run. Also, no way of recording my (3)DS at the moment (I know, I'm a total scrub). Still, racing this game sometime would be fun if that's cool with you.

Once I fully route the game, or if I need help routing a specific part, any of your feedback would be great! Thanks!

Regarding timing, I wasn't sure if I should stop time when you summon Ho-Oh at the end of the game (the last thing you actually do before the game is completed) or at the final Mission Clear animation. The only reason for this is, like I said, once you summon Ho-Oh the game is basically completed, but you have to wait through another 4 minutes of dialogue before the Mission Clear animation actually happens. Whatever seems best, I suppose.

Looking forward to possible future collaboration!

SirRouven

2015-01-18 12:49:22 pm

You don´t need a japanese DS to play the japanese version. All Pokémon Ranger games are not region locked and can be played on all DS and 3DS consoles.
But yeah, you still would have to get the japanese version.

Anyways, routing this game shouldn´t be too hard since the game is pretty straight forward. You might be able to catch some pokémons in earlier missions to make later missions faster but basically you just would have to memorize the game and where to get which pokémon.
Something we definetly should take a look at is the customisation of the Capture Styler and its level ups throughout the game.
The only upgrades we probably will need in the run are the power and length upgrades.

Of course we don´t have to handle timing in this game like in other ranger games and ending after summoning Ho-Oh sounds kinda nice to keep the time shorter but it feels somehow unfinished to me if I would stop the timer prior to the mission complete animation.
I don´t know what you think about this but I don´t mind 4 more minutes after completing a 6-8 hours run.

You don´t need a japanese DS to play the japanese version. All Pokémon Ranger games are not region locked and can be played on all DS and 3DS consoles.
But yeah, you still would have to get the japanese version.

Anyways, routing this game shouldn´t be too hard since the game is pretty straight forward. You might be able to catch some pokémons in earlier missions to make later missions faster but basically you just would have to memorize the game and where to get which pokémon.
Something we definetly should take a look at is the customisation of the Capture Styler and its level ups throughout the game.
The only upgrades we probably will need in the run are the power and length upgrades.

Of course we don´t have to handle timing in this game like in other ranger games and ending after summoning Ho-Oh sounds kinda nice to keep the time shorter but it feels somehow unfinished to me if I would stop the timer prior to the mission complete animation.
I don´t know what you think about this but I don´t mind 4 more minutes after completing a 6-8 hours run.

damon07

2015-01-18 01:03:45 pm

Oh cool, I'll look into getting a Japanese cart.

My general plan for catching Pokemon, besides the ones required to get past obstacles, is to catch certain Pokemon with really helpful assists, and try to keep them for as long as possible or until you don't need them anymore. For example, Tyrogue, Kingler, Ariados, and Bibarel are really useful in the early game in general, while Rampardos, Umbreon, and Weavile wreck the mid-late game. I also catch others that are used specifically for bosses or other tough fights. As far as styler customization, my plan was to level up length 3 times and dump the rest into power. That makes your styler line long enough for pretty much every fight in the game. And stopping time at the final mission clear is cool with me, just wanted another opinion.

SirRouven

2015-01-18 02:03:12 pm

Getting certain pokémon throughout the game could really be a good idea.
For example, I caught a hariyama in the last dungeon because it blocked a button and later it was very useful for all boss fights. Unfortunately I lost it in mewtwo´s first phase.

damon07

2015-01-18 05:12:07 pm

Typing out route on a google doc here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MPN9vG_RLl3olAEZPtL2uctYkat_HMCYNUhsxl3OPMw/edit?usp=sharing

so you can keep track of when I update the route and such, and so you can suggest anything to improve it

damon07

2015-01-21 03:56:23 pm

Have the first 5 missions routed, continuing routing now.

Do you think we should put any RP into power charge speed or latency? Mainly concerned about power charge though.

SirRouven

2015-01-22 07:29:02 am

Upgrading the charge speed once could be helpful.
I remember that I used charging very often for later bosses and pokémon which start the fight in rage mode.
It definetly would help for pokémons which don´t move very much like regigigas.
It depends on how much ranger points we get overall and how much the other upgrades will cost.
I think it was something like 650 for all missions and some extra points for S ranks.
Let´s just assume we get 700.
Upgrading power costs 30, I believe and length costs 100 (200?).
Looking at how much points we have, I would say that upgrading charge speed once is a good idea.

But we probably should also take a look at how much one upgrade will make the charge speed faster.

Also, I didn´t read through the route carefully, yet (like I said, I don´t have the time at the moment since I am routing ranger 1 - 100%) but keep in mind that sometimes it could be faster to not ride a pokémon to get somewhere.
Sometimes the distance between point A and B isn´t worth the time required to summon a pokémon.

Upgrading the charge speed once could be helpful.
I remember that I used charging very often for later bosses and pokémon which start the fight in rage mode.
It definetly would help for pokémons which don´t move very much like regigigas.
It depends on how much ranger points we get overall and how much the other upgrades will cost.
I think it was something like 650 for all missions and some extra points for S ranks.
Let´s just assume we get 700.
Upgrading power costs 30, I believe and length costs 100 (200?).
Looking at how much points we have, I would say that upgrading charge speed once is a good idea.

But we probably should also take a look at how much one upgrade will make the charge speed faster.

Also, I didn´t read through the route carefully, yet (like I said, I don´t have the time at the moment since I am routing ranger 1 - 100%) but keep in mind that sometimes it could be faster to not ride a pokémon to get somewhere.
Sometimes the distance between point A and B isn´t worth the time required to summon a pokémon.

damon07

2015-01-22 04:37:58 pm

There are only really a few places in the run where you walk instead of riding on a beast, most of the distances that you travel on foot are long enough that they're worth summoning for.

You acquire a total of 660 RP from the 13 missions and the one mandatory quest, however another question is if we should try to rely on RP from S rank captures. The only reason I say this is because every time you get an S rank on a certain pokemon for the first time you get an additional text box which wastes about a second. So that's around 30 seconds lost for one additional upgrade. Worth it? Not totally sure. But if you do just happen to get enough S ranks to be able to get another upgrade, then go for it. We're no doubt going to get some S rank captures, but I wasn't really sure while routing if we should intentionally go for them.

Power upgrades are 30 each, length upgrades increase each time you level it up (50, 100, 150, etc.), and charge speed is 80 for the first upgrade and 150 for the second. Each upgrade reduces charge speed by a third of a second and it starts at 1.66 seconds so I think it's worth it to upgrade it once, not totally sure about twice.

So not including S Ranks we have:
660 - 300 (3 length upgrades) = 360
360 - 80 (charge speed upgrade) = 280

So that leaves us with 8 to 10 power upgrades. I say 8 to 10 because I know the cost increases to 40 at some point but I'm not sure which level, as well as the varying amount of S ranks we happen to get throughout the run. Of course all of this is subject to change until we find what's best.

One last thing I want to note is something that I've found that may open up opportunities for glitches, although I haven't found any glitches with it yet. Basically what this is is pausing and moving at the same time. When you begin moving, your health bar and the icons for the sign-drawing screen and pause menu begin to move off the screen. However, if you input movement, either on the control pad (stick) or by touching the screen, and on the next frame (or before the icons start moving, I think it's the next frame) hit R to bring up the pause menu, you will move 1 pixel in the inputted direction and pause at the same time. I tried using this to hit the first pixel of different loading zones and cutscene triggers and pausing while entering them, but the state of being in a loading zone/cutscene seems to override being in the pause menu and the game just carries on like normal. I also know that I hit R on the right frame because the sound effect for opening the pause menu plays but the menu itself doesn't actually open. Not sure if this will be useful at all, but just something interesting to note and to keep in the back of our minds.

There are only really a few places in the run where you walk instead of riding on a beast, most of the distances that you travel on foot are long enough that they're worth summoning for.

You acquire a total of 660 RP from the 13 missions and the one mandatory quest, however another question is if we should try to rely on RP from S rank captures. The only reason I say this is because every time you get an S rank on a certain pokemon for the first time you get an additional text box which wastes about a second. So that's around 30 seconds lost for one additional upgrade. Worth it? Not totally sure. But if you do just happen to get enough S ranks to be able to get another upgrade, then go for it. We're no doubt going to get some S rank captures, but I wasn't really sure while routing if we should intentionally go for them.

Power upgrades are 30 each, length upgrades increase each time you level it up (50, 100, 150, etc.), and charge speed is 80 for the first upgrade and 150 for the second. Each upgrade reduces charge speed by a third of a second and it starts at 1.66 seconds so I think it's worth it to upgrade it once, not totally sure about twice.

So not including S Ranks we have:
660 - 300 (3 length upgrades) = 360
360 - 80 (charge speed upgrade) = 280

So that leaves us with 8 to 10 power upgrades. I say 8 to 10 because I know the cost increases to 40 at some point but I'm not sure which level, as well as the varying amount of S ranks we happen to get throughout the run. Of course all of this is subject to change until we find what's best.

One last thing I want to note is something that I've found that [i]may[/i] open up opportunities for glitches, although I haven't found any glitches with it yet. Basically what this is is pausing and moving at the same time. When you begin moving, your health bar and the icons for the sign-drawing screen and pause menu begin to move off the screen. However, if you input movement, either on the control pad (stick) or by touching the screen, and on the next frame (or before the icons start moving, I think it's the next frame) hit R to bring up the pause menu, you will move 1 pixel in the inputted direction and pause at the same time. I tried using this to hit the first pixel of different loading zones and cutscene triggers and pausing while entering them, but the state of being in a loading zone/cutscene seems to override being in the pause menu and the game just carries on like normal. I also know that I hit R on the right frame because the sound effect for opening the pause menu plays but the menu itself doesn't actually open. Not sure if this will be useful at all, but just something interesting to note and to keep in the back of our minds.

damon07

Edit history:

damon07: 2015-03-02 09:10:47 am

2015-03-02 09:08:28 am

After taking a month-long hiatus from this game, I have finished routing it. Probably not optimal and there are most likely a lot of kinks to be worked out, but it's done. Next I hope to find time for my next run, and the first one with the completed route. Goal time for now would be sub 8, but I think it's pretty much guaranteed unless something goes really wrong. Also hoping to get my hands on a jap copy at some point still.

damon07

2015-03-07 04:53:00 am

Completed my first run with the full route. Clocked out at 7:44:43. I was aiming for sub 8, so I was very happy with the sub 7:45. That being said, there were probably 15+ minutes lost to mistakes and RNG, so I think sub 7:30 is definitely possible. Combined with the Japanese version, a really good run could even turn out to be sub 7, which is really exciting to even think about.

Also, there were a couple of mistakes in the route, but I'll fix them later. The only thing to do after completing a run of this game is to sleep.

Diamond

Edit history:

Diamond: 2015-08-14 08:45:47 am

2015-08-14 08:02:28 am

I have been routing this game myself, because I had no idea that someone had done this before, and after reading through your route, I have one major point to bring up: What about Secret Sign Pokemon?
I'm mainly thinking about Feraligatr here: its assist is really good and it can be resummoned at any time outside. I even managed to sub 40 on Typhlosion using its assist (Or 50; don't remember, I would have to look on my VODs)
There might be a reason for not using it that is related to target clears, but I am not seeing it.
I don't know about Meganium, Typhlosion, Garchomp and Metagross, but I'm sure that Feraligatr is really good, and is a good safe option as well in case you lose it.
One more thing: Why not Shelgon? Its assist is also pretty powerful, and has *3 tackle.
There are probably other things I could look through and try to find improvements, but those are a few things that really stuck out for me.
EDIT: Thought about another reroute on the first visit to the Canal Ruins. Instead of getting Grotle, on the way to the wall you could power charge Raikou's sign and get one of the Forretresses that fall down. Because of the charged sign, these Pokemon will not be enraged, they will be scared. I am not sure which Pokemon is a quicker capture, but this saves two screen transitions. Charging the sign uses 1.6 seconds, but it also saves 1-2 seconds because Grotle's target clear takes longer than Forretress'. This is a recurring point: some Pokemon have longer target clear animations. Probably the worst example of this is when Mankey is used in the temple before Entei. Mankey has a really long animation for this, but these animation lengths vary among Pokemon. Using other Pokemon in these situations could save a few seconds here and there.

damon07

2015-08-21 10:11:50 pm

Haven't played this game in forever, but those are some interesting points you bring up. How much time does it take to get Feraligatr? It seems pretty out of the way.

Diamond

2015-08-27 07:54:52 am

I'm not exactly sure, but all you need is register his ranger sign and then draw it to summon him like Raikou.
You get the ability to register him either after you defeat blue eyes in the submarine or you complete the same mission, not sure. If you draw it perfect first try it shouldn't take too long. If you register his sign while on a trip to the menu to upgrade your styler it should use less time.
At the least it's a very good safety strat if you lose the normal assist Pokemon you have.

damon07

2015-08-28 01:42:01 am

Ah I wasn't aware of that. Sounds consistent which is always good, I'll take a look into it!

Diamond

2015-08-31 12:42:31 pm

For some reason I have convinced myself to do routing for an All Rangerdex category in this game (100% is dumb so I'm not doing it).
I'm starting with immediate postgame, and trying to order the quests in such a way so that I don't have to deal with the 4 big Pokemon fetch quests at the same time, as well as completing quests in an optimal order (such as completing all of the quests that deal with the Old Mansion and getting Blissey all at the same time.
There are still a lot of questions about when exactly to do some of these quests, and especially when to get some of these Pokemon, but for now I'm doing all of the important postgame routing.

damon07

Edit history:

damon07: 2015-09-01 06:02:49 pm

2015-09-01 06:02:20 pm

Good luck! I don't know much about the game other than getting through the main story, so I won't be of much help there unfortunately.

Diamond

Edit history:

Diamond: 2015-09-07 07:38:01 am

Diamond: 2015-09-03 09:59:34 am

2015-09-02 10:00:05 pm

Thanks. I think I've managed to complete almost all of the Postgame routing, and I wrote up most of it in a google doc. (What I wrote basically goes up to starting the second to last quest in the game, the Quest where you have to gather all of the Pichu from around the region)
I'll post it soon, maybe you could at least give it a look, see if I could cut out some backtracks.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hCqAjd0ohDoA4HsoHA4qDS40_J9Pjrjn3fI-VgRzz0E/edit?usp=sharing
This is the whole postgame route that I made.
It took a lot of thought and effort to complete it, especially the later parts.
Important edit:
Garchomp, as a sign Pokemon, is really really good.
It DESTROYS bosses. At 260~ power, I took down Lugia in only two assists. In under 30 seconds.
That's a bit overleveled in comparison to Single Segment, but the point still remains that it is ridiculously overpowered.