Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team

KingdomNerdia

Edit history:

KingdomNerdia: 2013-11-08 08:29:12 pm

2013-11-08 08:25:27 pm

OLV

Alright, so this was one of my favorite games during middle school. I've wrapped it multiple times, and recently decided that I was going to try to speedrun it. No one else has done this, so far as I can tell, and I'm not surprised why. There are no sequence breaks, that I know of, and the game itself is extremely RNG-reliant and can screw you six ways from Sunday if you're not careful. My current estimate for a full run is between 3-5 hours, dependent on RNG. My brother and I are doing this together, and have come up with some conventions and strats.

Current timing scheme:
The timing is straightforward, but annoying. The personality quiz at the beginning would have to be part of the timing for an SDA run, but is entirely RNG dependent (you can seriously waste ten minutes trying to get the right starter). You need to quiz and reset until you get the right starter. As such, this is fine for an SDA run, but it doesn't work very well for races. What my brother and I agreed to do is have a save state with starter already selected at the message "Go for it!" This is the last message of the personality quiz, before the game itself starts. That way, we can equalize the RNG at the beginning a bit before a race. So, for an SDA run, time starts when you hit "new game" and ends when you defeat Rayquaza. For racing, it starts at a Save State after the personality quiz, and ends after Rayquaza.

My strats so far:
Starters: Charmander, Partner Mudkip
Charmander gets Steel Claw, which rips through Rock type, as well as Ember, which kills the first several dungeons (which are mostly Grass, with some Steel). Mudkip learns Mud Slap and Water Gun, which work wonders against bosses, especially Groudon and Moltres.

Pokemon to get:
Currently, the plan is to pick up a Seel or a Snorunt in Frosty Forest or Mt. Freeze, for an Ice move. Thus equipped, hope for lucky RNG and an Ice Beam TM, and beat Rayquaza that way. I -may- also try and get a Geodude for Rock Throw, but I'm not totally sure on that yet.

Other possibilities:
Pikachu as starter/partner, for lightning against birds (Makes him super-effective against 3/7 bosses)
Skitty as starter, for the possibility of Ice Beam learning for Groudon and Rayquaza

I will be streaming some attempts at this, if anyone is interested. I am currently working on VBA, for practice purposes, but will switch over to my actual GBA if I ever attempt a run at a marathon or for SDA archives.

Thread title:

Alright, so this was one of my favorite games during middle school.  I've wrapped it multiple times, and recently decided that I was going to try to speedrun it.  No one else has done this, so far as I can tell, and I'm not surprised why.  There are no sequence breaks, that I know of, and the game itself is extremely RNG-reliant and can screw you six ways from Sunday if you're not careful.  My current estimate for a full run is between 3-5 hours, dependent on RNG.  My brother and I are doing this together, and have come up with some conventions and strats.

Current timing scheme:
The timing is straightforward, but annoying.  The personality quiz at the beginning would have to be part of the timing for an SDA run, but is entirely RNG dependent (you can seriously waste ten minutes trying to get the right starter).  You need to quiz and reset until you get the right starter.  As such, this is fine for an SDA run, but it doesn't work very well for races.  What my brother and I agreed to do is have a save state with starter already selected at the message "Go for it!"  This is the last message of the personality quiz, before the game itself starts.  That way, we can equalize the RNG at the beginning a bit before a race.  So, for an SDA run, time starts when you hit "new game" and ends when you defeat Rayquaza.  For racing, it starts at a Save State after the personality quiz, and ends after Rayquaza.

My strats so far:
Starters: Charmander, Partner Mudkip
Charmander gets Steel Claw, which rips through Rock type, as well as Ember, which kills the first several dungeons (which are mostly Grass, with some Steel).  Mudkip learns Mud Slap and Water Gun, which work wonders against bosses, especially Groudon and Moltres.

Pokemon to get:
Currently, the plan is to pick up a Seel or a Snorunt in Frosty Forest or Mt. Freeze, for an Ice move.  Thus equipped, hope for lucky RNG and an Ice Beam TM, and beat Rayquaza that way.  I -may- also try and get a Geodude for Rock Throw, but I'm not totally sure on that yet.

Other possibilities:
Pikachu as starter/partner, for lightning against birds (Makes him super-effective against 3/7 bosses)
Skitty as starter, for the possibility of Ice Beam learning for Groudon and Rayquaza

I will be streaming some attempts at this, if anyone is interested.  I am currently working on VBA, for practice purposes, but will switch over to my actual GBA if I ever attempt a run at a marathon or for SDA archives.

Vulajin

Edit history:

Vulajin: 2013-11-09 08:05:40 pm

2013-11-09 08:05:04 pm

Actually Viskiv has done PMD Blue, and he has the best known time (as far as we're aware in the community) for that game: http://www.twitch.tv/viskiv/c/2727728

Sorry that I can't contribute in any other way, but possibly his run can offer some insights for you.

KingdomNerdia

2013-11-10 10:14:47 am

OLV

Thanks for that link. I'll check it out. I'm not entirely sure what the differences are between PMD Red and Blue -> I know there are some pokemon differences (what you can find), and I think the DS version has a slightly different interface. =/ I'm not sure it's the same for timing, I'd have to look into it.

ais523

2013-11-10 02:47:50 pm

I know that the major difference between PMD Time and Darkness is which items generate randomly (which makes a noticeable difference in boss fights). It's quite possible that PMD Red and Blue have a similar difference, although I don't know for sure.

KingdomNerdia

2013-11-11 02:10:55 pm

OLV

It's possible. The only difference Bulbapedia lists is which pokemon are version-exclusive (none of these make a difference for the run, however - neither set has pokemon which substantially make the either run harder or easier). However, it definitely seems to me that either Viskiv got rediculously good RNG on his run, or there are differences in drop rates, dungeon layout, or something. At any rate, there is no SDA run, so I can still submit one of those, and Viskiv's run is still helpful for me, since I learned a good bit from it.

A couple more things I noticed:
- You can skip the "Moving to dungeon across the map" animation by pressing A or B on the right frame. This saves a substantial amount of time through the run. I haven't figured out exactly which frame yet, and mashing A + B doesn't always work.
- Using only one character for your name and your partner's name saves almost a minute throughout the run.
- Switching dungeon speed to "Fast" is a must

I'm continuing to stream as I work on my first full run. Because my schedule is crazy, I'm working on it piece by piece - I'll stream a couple dungeons, then take a break, to continue later. I'm currently three hours in, with really shitty splits. But hey, it's a first run, and I'm getting better as I go through. =D

It's possible.  The only difference Bulbapedia lists is which pokemon are version-exclusive (none of these make a difference for the run, however - neither set has pokemon which substantially make the either run harder or easier).  However, it definitely seems to me that either Viskiv got rediculously good RNG on his run, or there are differences in drop rates, dungeon layout, or something.  At any rate, there is no SDA run, so I can still submit one of those, and Viskiv's run is still helpful for me, since I learned a good bit from it.

A couple more things I noticed:
 - You can skip the "Moving to dungeon across the map" animation by pressing A or B on the right frame.  This saves a substantial amount of time through the run.  I haven't figured out exactly which frame yet, and mashing A + B doesn't always work.
 - Using only one character for your name and your partner's name saves almost a minute throughout the run.
 - Switching dungeon speed to "Fast" is a must

I'm continuing to stream as I work on my first full run.  Because my schedule is crazy, I'm working on it piece by piece - I'll stream a couple dungeons, then take a break, to continue later.  I'm currently three hours in, with really shitty splits.  But hey, it's a first run, and I'm getting better as I go through.  =D

KingdomNerdia

2014-01-08 09:54:39 pm

OLV

So, I took a break from this for finals and attempts at a Mark of the Ninja 100% run. Those things (relatively) finished, I've returned to PMD: Red. I've learned some new strats, so I'll post them here...

- Linking moves is absolutely broken, and is a must to beat the game at the low levels that speedrunning requires. You can link up to four moves, all of which can be damaging, and thus attack four times in a turn.
- You could call this run "RNG - the game." Seriously. You rely on good item rng in the early dungeons in order to get enough items, you rely on rng to get good rewards for the required missions, you require rng for wild pokemon behavior, you rely on rng for dungeon layout, you rely on rng for character selection, and more besides... Yeah. Enough rng for any number of games.
- You tend to get slightly better rewards from mailbox missions than billboard missions, which can help you get enough Megalixers and Reviver Seeds for the railroad-plot-cruise from Lapis Cave through Freeze Mountain.

At any rate, no one has found any beneficial glitches, and there is no way that I am aware of to manipulate the RNG. As it is, if you get unlucky, you can get stuck without any way to complete the run if you get screwed over on your railroad-plot-cruise. Here's hoping it gets easier...

So, I took a break from this for finals and attempts at a Mark of the Ninja 100% run.  Those things (relatively) finished, I've returned to PMD: Red.  I've learned some new strats, so I'll post them here...

- Linking moves is absolutely broken, and is a must to beat the game at the low levels that speedrunning requires.  You can link up to four moves, all of which can be damaging, and thus attack four times in a turn.
- You could call this run "RNG - the game."  Seriously.  You rely on good item rng in the early dungeons in order to get enough items, you rely on rng to get good rewards for the required missions, you require rng for wild pokemon behavior, you rely on rng for dungeon layout, you rely on rng for character selection, and more besides...  Yeah.  Enough rng for any number of games.
- You tend to get slightly better rewards from mailbox missions than billboard missions, which can help you get enough Megalixers and Reviver Seeds for the railroad-plot-cruise from Lapis Cave through Freeze Mountain.

At any rate, no one has found any beneficial glitches, and there is no way that I am aware of to manipulate the RNG.  As it is, if you get unlucky, you can get stuck without any way to complete the run if you get screwed over on your railroad-plot-cruise.  Here's hoping it gets easier...

damon07

2014-01-12 08:19:59 am

I am totally down to do this with you, TC. The only problem is it's probably gonna be a little difficult for me as I haven't completed the game before. However, I'm willing to learn and study up with you to do this thing! I'll try to catch your streams when I can, so we can chat there.

Anywho, I'll get started on it right now. (:

KingdomNerdia

2014-01-12 08:00:58 pm

OLV

Who's TC, or did you post this the wrong thread?

damon07

2014-01-13 05:08:02 am

Right thread, I meant you lol. Im so used to posting on gamefaqs that I accidentally used that term. It means topic/thread creator.

KingdomNerdia

Edit history:

KingdomNerdia: 2014-01-13 06:26:03 am

2014-01-13 06:25:42 am

OLV

Oh, ok. I've never been on that forum, so I guess that explains why I didn't understand what TC meant. XD

Well, I do hate to say that I'm pretty darn close to giving this game up for now. The run is just too RNG dependent to do consistent RTA runs of the whole thing. There are a couple things we can do with it, though. A race through Zapdos would be just about an hour, and ends before the RNG monster hits. If I were to try and make a run for SDA, it would have to be segmented.

However, I definitely suggest playing the game, even if it's just casually once. The game has beautiful art, awesome music, and a storyline that made me cry I played first at age 13.

damon07

2014-01-13 12:56:51 pm

What exactly happens after Zapdos that includes more RNG than the game already has?

KingdomNerdia

2014-01-13 05:50:15 pm

OLV

It's not that there's more RNG, it's that the RNG present from the game starts having more effect.

The game has a railroad plot. At the beginning, you have a couple easy dungeons, and two easy bosses (Skarmory and Team Meanies). During this time, you have around 10 trips through dungeons with random layouts to get the random items that you need in order to survive the later dungeons. After you fight Team Meanies, you immediately go to Silent Chasm to find, and then Mt. Thunder to fight Zapdos. After Zapdos you go back to town, but after one dungeon, you get chased out of town and can't shop to buy items again until after you beat Moltres at Mt. Blaze (where a single Fury Attack from a Fearow can kill you, allow you to revive, and then kill you again), Articuno at Frosty Forest, and then beat Mt. Freeze to prove your innocence. Unless you get super lucky with items in town or item drops in dungeons before that, and given the game's extremely steep death penalty (losing 50% of items and all money, and having to restart the dungeon), it's almost impossible to get through that three-dungeon section. Thus, while most of my runs get to Zapdos regardless of good or bad RNG, I need fantastic RNG to get past the next three dungeons. In fact, I've only had a handful of runs make it past that part.

Zapdos is about an hour in, and you can typically beat him even with bad RNG. Moreover, the stuff leading up to him is pretty fun, and you can experiment with different starters and stuff. It makes for a good race. But going past Zapdos would make the RNG a much bigger factor, and having one or both racers lose their runs to RNG isn't fun to do or watch.

It's not that there's more RNG, it's that the RNG present from the game starts having more effect.

The game has a railroad plot.  At the beginning, you have a couple easy dungeons, and two easy bosses (Skarmory and Team Meanies).  During this time, you have around 10 trips through dungeons with random layouts to get the random items that you need in order to survive the later dungeons.  After you fight Team Meanies, you immediately go to Silent Chasm to find, and then Mt. Thunder to fight Zapdos.  After Zapdos you go back to town, but after one dungeon, you get chased out of town and can't shop to buy items again until after you beat Moltres at Mt. Blaze (where a single Fury Attack from a Fearow can kill you, allow you to revive, and then kill you again), Articuno at Frosty Forest, and then beat Mt. Freeze to prove your innocence.  Unless you get super lucky with items in town or item drops in dungeons before that, and given the game's extremely steep death penalty (losing 50% of items and all money, and having to restart the dungeon), it's almost impossible to get through that three-dungeon section.  Thus, while most of my runs get to Zapdos regardless of good or bad RNG, I need fantastic RNG to get past the next three dungeons.  In fact, I've only had a handful of runs make it past that part.

Zapdos is about an hour in, and you can typically beat him even with bad RNG.  Moreover, the stuff leading up to him is pretty fun, and you can experiment with different starters and stuff.  It makes for a good race.  But going past Zapdos would make the RNG a much bigger factor, and having one or both racers lose their runs to RNG isn't fun to do or watch.

damon07

2014-01-13 07:30:53 pm

Bummer. I hadn't gotten any runs up to Zapdos anyway. Oh well. Sad

By the way, I had gotten up to the Mankey section of the story in my casual playthrough years ago, so I knew most of the storyline anyway. Tongue

KingdomNerdia

Edit history:

KingdomNerdia: 2014-01-15 10:50:05 am

2014-01-15 09:44:55 am

OLV

Quote:

I hadn't gotten any runs up to Zapdos anyway.

You've been trying, though? How far have you gotten? Maybe I can help if you've gotten stuck. =D

Also, if you want an example of RNG after Zapdos, here's what Venemoth can do in the last dungeon.

blackbox64

2014-03-31 04:46:27 pm

I go fast I guess

Hey, I want to pitch in an Idea.

Using the combination of any pokemon + Cyndaquil is a good way to go. Cyndaquil learns smokescreen, and It is one of the most broken moves in the game. It basically stops the attacker from being able to hit you. I usually use Skitty as my main. Linking up all attacking moves with Doubleslap at the end causes for some BIG damage.

bsilio

2015-04-20 05:36:41 pm

Hey i just watched a video on Youtube of Werster playing and made me want to run this game. I have played alot of mystery dungeons and want to know if you have found anything else out that i can use.

MyInfiniteLight

2015-07-08 02:28:18 am

For who originally posted this, I have the PMD-Red Strategy guide. and there is a list to guarantee what ever starter you want. that way no reset is needed to get him, thus reducing time. If you want the list let me know and Ill be more than happy to help out!
Unfortunately, I have looked around but I cant find anything (glitch wise) to jump any bit of the game, granted I have not looked to hard, and frankly, Im not super good at finding things like that. But I do wish you luck. Again pm me if you need that list.