Pokemon Leaf Green/Fire Red Discussion topic

2008-05-19 07:41:53 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

Yes. Yes I can. Grin

Because you can go into a one floor mart and buy repels faster than going up 3 floors to buy stones.

We should test this though, but it makes sense to me, lol.

UltimateDarius

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2008-05-19 08:16:13 pm

2008-05-19 07:55:45 pm

Back in the game!

Money issue: Amulet Coin Smiley

EDIT: There's a leaf stone available en route in the safari zone. That cuts one of them out, if you'd rather.

On Celdon Dept. Store: We have to shop there, period, in order to achieve the best results for the E4R2 battle, I think. If we can X-item thru it the first time, our Rare Candies will be more useful for the 2nd time through.

In progress as we speak: I'm searching for a Lucky Egg Chansey in the safari zone. If we can obtain this item, we'll have a boosted experience Blastoise for over half of the run. I don't know right now whether or not this will actually be useful, but I will release the results when the effing Chanseys finally cooperate with me.

DoubleThink

2008-05-19 08:20:28 pm

There's a word for that

Hmm... Magikarp does take quite a lot of exp to get to Lv20 and there mightn't be enough to give him in the Fighting Dojo (unless you've tested this, in which case I eat my words).
Also would it be worth it to catch some of those early ones at higher levels and evolve them on the spot? Never mind battling, just use a Rare Candy on them, your starter will be getting extra exp anyway and should manage without it (hopefully...). The Catch formula isn't affected by level (aside from making enemies harder to weaken) so it shouldn't be any more difficult.

UltimateDarius

2008-05-19 08:23:40 pm

Back in the game!

Quote:

Hmm... Magikarp does take quite a lot of exp to get to Lv20 and there mightn't be enough to give him in the Fighting Dojo (unless you've tested this, in which case I eat my words).
Also would it be worth it to catch some of those early ones at higher levels and evolve them on the spot? Never mind battling, just use a Rare Candy on them, your starter will be getting extra exp anyway and should manage without it (hopefully...). The Catch formula isn't affected by level (aside from making enemies harder to weaken) so it shouldn't be any more difficult.

The plan was to buy Magikarp, then drop him off at daycare until right before the Giovanni fight. Then exp share him at the dojo.

I think the candies are needed for the E4R2 battle...haven't fully tested it for sure yet, but I'll let you all know.

whistle

2008-05-19 10:34:59 pm

I love SDA!

Quote:

BUT, you have a good idea for the Island part! It would be faster to just go with Bill because you wouldn't have to fly back to Cinnabar Island after the Elite 4. So yah, you could catch Pokemon that are easier to snag while you go search for Lostelle.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that doing the islands before the E4 is faster because you're already on Cinnabar, so you don't have to do any extra flying. But I'm 99% sure that after you beat the E4 and you have 60, Oak comes out and upgrades your Dex but you still have to fly to Vermillion to get on the boat. So you'd have to fly to Vermillion either way.

It's kind of just moving the island quest around - maybe skipping it first would be quicker because there's no transportation to and from Cinnabar and the Bill dialogue might get cut (I don't know for sure because I just always did the quest). I guess you guys are better at figuring out time-saving routes than I am Smiley

Phở

Edit history:

Phở: 2008-05-19 11:35:21 pm

2008-05-19 11:27:40 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

I still don't see why you need to drop off Magikarp or trade Spearow. Tongue

Oh yah, and it's faster to bike to the port than going back to Cinnabar.
When you fly back to Cinnabar, Bill decides to walk around you real slow like, then after he leaves the center, you go after him.

UltimateDarius

2008-05-20 12:52:30 pm

Back in the game!

Quote:

I still don't see why you need to drop off Magikarp or trade Spearow. Tongue

Oh yah, and it's faster to bike to the port than going back to Cinnabar.
When you fly back to Cinnabar, Bill decides to walk around you real slow like, then after he leaves the center, you go after him.

Test it then, I guess. I'm not budging until I see substantial evidence that proves otherwise. While I could be wrong, I was right about Zapdos =P

Phở

2008-05-20 07:51:27 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

Quote:

I still don't see why you need to drop off Magikarp or trade Spearow. Tongue

Oh yah, and it's faster to bike to the port than going back to Cinnabar.
When you fly back to Cinnabar, Bill decides to walk around you real slow like, then after he leaves the center, you go after him.

Test it then, I guess. I'm not budging until I see substantial evidence that proves otherwise. While I could be wrong, I was right about Zapdos =P

I'll give you props for that. XD

Unfortunately, I don't have time to test it. So, I guess we just gotta agree to disagree.

Phở

Edit history:

Phở: 2008-05-26 07:49:22 pm

2008-05-24 01:36:49 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

Sorry for the double post, but I updated my version of the list! I magically have free time this weekend and started playing through the game. The major difference between this list and my first is that we now want to catch pokemon in terms of how often a pokemon shows up and what the encounter rate in an area is. When doing this run, I think it's best to just to walk and catch pokemon you may happen to find, as to going hunting for a pokemon in a certain area. I was doing -a run based on Darius' list, and this kind of came to me, so once again, props to Darius and his ideas. Still, I don't see why we need to drop off Magikarp. XD

Also, Fractal Fusion mentioned that the encounter rate depends on the number of steps in Fire Red, and areas like Mt. Moon and Surfing areas will take forever without repels.

Anyways, here's version 2 of my list:
Catching Order - List updated 5/25 6:45pm PST
version 2 differences
-Acts more as a walkthrough so that you don't have to spend time hunting for pokemon. This way, you would just catch a pokemon that happen to pop up while you're speed running.
-Is now both Fire Red/Leaf Green friendly

-Pallete Town-
1. Squirtle

-Route 1-
2. Pidgey
3. Ratata

-Viridian Forest-
4. Weedle
5. Caterpie

-Route 3-
6. Spearow
7. Mankey
8. Nidoran F/M
9. Buy Magikarp for $500

-Mt. Moon-
-repel-

-Route 4-
10. Sandshrew/Ekans
11. Wartortle (should be evolved by now)

-Route 24/25-
don't bother going in the grass

-Route 6-
12. Meowth
13. Bellsprout/Oddish

Virmillion City
14. Farfetch'd
15. Drowzee

-Route 9-
16. Voltorb

-Rock Tunnel-
17. Machop

-Route 7/8-
don't bother looking

Celadon City
18. Eevee

-Pokemon Tower-
19. Ghastly
then repel
20. Blastoise (from Wartortle)

-Silph Co.-
21. Lapras

-Cycling Road-
22. Snorlax
23. Doduo

-Safari Zone-
24. Paras
25. Rhyhorn
26. Exeggcute
27. Nidorina
28. Nidorino

-Route 21-
29. Tentacool
then repel

-Cinnabar Mansion-
30. Growlithe/Vulpix
31. Koffing
32. Grimer
33. Muk/Weezing
34. Raticate

Cinnabar Lab
35. Omanyte

-Island 3 Berry Forest-
36. Hypno
37. Weepinbel/Gloom
38. Pidgeotto
39. Venonat
40. Venomoth

Viridian City
41. Metapod
42. Butterfree
43. Kakuna
44. Beedril
Evolve these guys though battle

Almost victory road
45. Slowpoke/Psyduck
46. Fearow

Victory Road
47. Machoke, Golbat or Marowak
48. Geodude
49. Zubat
50. Onix

-Indigo Plateau-
-Evolve pokemon with stones-
51. Victreebel/Vileplume
52. Exeggutor
53. Nidoking
54. Ninetails/Arcanine
55. Jolt/Flar/Vaporeon
56. Nidoqueen

-Evolve with rare candies-
57. Pidgeot
58. Golbat
59. Graveler

-Evolve during e4R1-
60. Parasect

::NOTES::
-You don't have to follow this list order by order. If you run into a rare pokemon not on the list or earlier in the game than listed, be my guest and try to catch it.

- Tested: It's faster just evolving pokemon through stones.
------------
Reply if you have any comments or suggestions. Smiley

Sorry for the double post, but I updated my version of the list! I magically have free time this weekend and started playing through the game. The major difference between this list and my first is that we now want to catch pokemon in terms of how often a pokemon shows up and what the encounter rate in an area is. When doing this run, I think it's best to just to walk and catch pokemon you may happen to find, as to going hunting for a pokemon in a certain area. I was doing -a run based on Darius' list, and this kind of came to me, so once again, props to Darius and his ideas. Still, I don't see why we need to drop off Magikarp. XD

Also, Fractal Fusion mentioned that the encounter rate depends on the number of steps in Fire Red, and areas like Mt. Moon and Surfing areas will take forever without repels.

Anyways, here's version 2 of my list:
[u]Catching Order - List updated 5/25 6:45pm PST[/u]
[b]version 2 differences[/b]
-Acts more as a walkthrough so that you don't have to spend time hunting for pokemon. This way, you would just catch a pokemon that happen to pop up while you're speed running.
-Is now both Fire Red/Leaf Green friendly

[b]-Pallete Town-[/b]
1. Squirtle

[b]-Route 1-[/b]
2. Pidgey
3. Ratata

[b]-Viridian Forest-[/b]
4. Weedle
5. Caterpie

[b]-Route 3-[/b]
6. Spearow
7. Mankey
8. Nidoran F/M
9. Buy Magikarp for $500

[b]-Mt. Moon-[/b]
-repel-

[b]-Route 4-[/b]
10. Sandshrew/Ekans
11. Wartortle (should be evolved by now)

[b]-Route 24/25-[/b]
don't bother going in the grass

[b]-Route 6-[/b]
12. Meowth
13. Bellsprout/Oddish

[b]Virmillion City[/b]
14. Farfetch'd
15. Drowzee

[b]-Route 9-[/b] 
16. Voltorb

[b]-Rock Tunnel-[/b]
17. Machop

[b]-Route 7/8-[/b]
don't bother looking

[b]Celadon City[/b]
18. Eevee

[b]-Pokemon Tower-[/b]
19. Ghastly
[i]then repel[/i]
20. Blastoise (from Wartortle)

[b]-Silph Co.-[/b]
21. Lapras

[b]-Cycling Road-[/b]
22. Snorlax
23. Doduo

[b]-Safari Zone-[/b]
24. Paras
25. Rhyhorn
26. Exeggcute
27. Nidorina
28. Nidorino

[b]-Route 21-[/b]
29. Tentacool
[i]then repel[/i]

[b]-Cinnabar Mansion-[/b]
30. Growlithe/Vulpix
31. Koffing
32. Grimer
33. Muk/Weezing
34. Raticate

[b]Cinnabar Lab[/b]
35. Omanyte

[b]-Island 3 Berry Forest-[/b]
36. Hypno
37. Weepinbel/Gloom
38. Pidgeotto
39. Venonat
40. Venomoth

[b]Viridian City[/b]
41. Metapod
42. Butterfree
43. Kakuna
44. Beedril
[i]Evolve these guys though battle[/i]

[b]Almost victory road[/b]
45. Slowpoke/Psyduck
46. Fearow

[b]Victory Road[/b]
47. Machoke, Golbat or Marowak
48. Geodude
49. Zubat
50. Onix

[b] -Indigo Plateau-[/b]
-Evolve pokemon with stones-
51. Victreebel/Vileplume
52. Exeggutor
53. Nidoking
54. Ninetails/Arcanine
55. Jolt/Flar/Vaporeon
56. Nidoqueen

-Evolve with rare candies-
57. Pidgeot
58. Golbat
59. Graveler

-Evolve during e4R1-
60. Parasect

::NOTES::
-You don't have to follow this list order by order. If you run into a rare pokemon not on the list or earlier in the game than listed, be my guest and try to catch it.

- Tested: It's faster just evolving pokemon through stones.
------------
Reply if you have any comments or suggestions. :)

UltimateDarius

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2008-05-24 07:09:07 pm

2008-05-24 06:42:37 pm

Back in the game!

Tangela has a retarded catch rate

Tentacruel is pretty rare in comparison to all the Tentacool you'll encounter first. Again, if this is segmented, it's not such a big deal.

EDIT: Post 133 in this topic is my SS list for this E4R2 run. In the original list, I avoid the safari zone entirely. Just a little food for thought...I don't know if it'll help our modified segmented list or not.

Also, something that I'm STILL trying to test: concept of the lucky egg. SS, no way in hell it's EVER happening. Segmented...MAYBE. There is a 1% chance that you'll encounter Chansey in the safari zone. Of those, 5% of them will be holding the Lucky Egg hold item, which, for those of you unfamiliar with it, boosts the holders experience points by 1.5. In other words, for about two thirds of the run, Blastoise will be gaining experience at the rate of a traded pokemon. Obviously, we all know that Chansey's catch rate is insanely retarded, so this segment would likely have to be redone a LOT of times in order to get the egg, and to get it within a reasonable amount of time. If we were able to clear our party out in the center earlier in the run somehow, then we could do our stone evolutions early, but the real purpose is to catch a Venonat and put it at the head of our party. Venonat's Compound Eyes ability doubles the odds of encountering a wild pokemon with a hold item. I'm not sure if this is feasable or not, but I'm putting the information out there. When I do get my egg, I'll do some testing with it. Perhaps we can Rare Candy level up 11 wild pokemon if we gain enough experience in this manner. Or perhaps it would be wiser to save most of them to speed up the 2nd run thru the E4. We'll see.

Tangela has a retarded catch rate

Tentacruel is pretty rare in comparison to all the Tentacool you'll encounter first.  Again, if this is segmented, it's not such a big deal.

EDIT:  Post 133 in this topic is my SS list for this E4R2 run.  In the original list, I avoid the safari zone entirely.  Just a little food for thought...I don't know if it'll help our modified segmented list or not.

Also, something that I'm STILL trying to test:  concept of the lucky egg.  SS, no way in hell it's EVER happening.  Segmented...MAYBE.  There is a 1% chance that you'll encounter Chansey in the safari zone.  Of those, 5% of them will be holding the Lucky Egg hold item, which, for those of you unfamiliar with it, boosts the holders experience points by 1.5.  In other words, for about two thirds of the run, Blastoise will be gaining experience at the rate of a traded pokemon.  Obviously, we all know that Chansey's catch rate is insanely retarded, so this segment would likely have to be redone a LOT of times in order to get the egg, and to get it within a reasonable amount of time.  If we were able to clear our party out in the center earlier in the run somehow, then we could do our stone evolutions early, but the real purpose is to catch a Venonat and put it at the head of our party.  Venonat's Compound Eyes ability doubles the odds of encountering a wild pokemon with a hold item.  I'm not sure if this is feasable or not, but I'm putting the information out there.  When I do get my egg, I'll do some testing with it.  Perhaps we can Rare Candy level up 11 wild pokemon if we gain enough experience in this manner.  Or perhaps it would be wiser to save most of them to speed up the 2nd run thru the E4.  We'll see.

Phở

2008-05-24 07:34:49 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

I'm kinda confused on how SS works with pokemon here.

Cos I remember reading one topic about a SS blue version run, but it was uploaded in segments. What's the rule?

UltimateDarius

2008-05-26 01:13:44 pm

Back in the game!

I don't know anything about a segmented SS. That just sounds silly. A SS is playing the game from start to finish in one sitting. For something like this, where there is a mandatory return to the menu and then continuing, mikuyama said that you literally have to record yourself playing the game with a camcorder or whatever, probably from the final battle with Gary until Oak approaches you after you continue the game.

Phở

Edit history:

Phở: 2008-05-26 05:01:16 pm

2008-05-26 04:59:32 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

Oh I see. Anyways, updated the list. I was playing around on the emulator and found something neat. I was able to manipulate the catch rate by waiting a few seconds before throwing a pokeball. If you do this for everyone you catch it would take forever.

If we were to do a single segment of this, it's faster just to evolve pokemon with stones and candies.

As for catching rare pokemon, you would save and reset a bunch of times so you would run into them first and save more time. When doing a single segment, I think we would just catch more pokemon in the safari zone.

We need the candies to level up Blastoise for the E4R2, mostly because of your Rival. Rival starts out with Heracross, so I doubt there's gonna be time to X-item Blastoise, and it'd be nice if it lived through at least one attack. :P.
It's probably smarter to get hit with a Megahorn, and then use Counter.

UltimateDarius

2008-05-26 05:57:39 pm

Back in the game!

Quote:

Oh I see. Anyways, updated the list. I was playing around on the emulator and found something neat. I was able to manipulate the catch rate by waiting a few seconds before throwing a pokeball. If you do this for everyone you catch it would take forever.

If we were to do a single segment of this, it's faster just to evolve pokemon with stones and candies.

As for catching rare pokemon, you would save and reset a bunch of times so you would run into them first and save more time. When doing a single segment, I think we would just catch more pokemon in the safari zone.

We need the candies to level up Blastoise for the E4R2, mostly because of your Rival. Rival starts out with Heracross, so I doubt there's gonna be time to X-item Blastoise, and it'd be nice if it lived through at least one attack. :P.
It's probably smarter to get hit with a Megahorn, and then use Counter.

You contradicted yourself just now. How can we save candies for Blastoise in a SS run if we're using them for evolution?

[quote]Oh I see. Anyways, updated the list. I was playing around on the emulator and found something neat. I was able to manipulate the catch rate by waiting a few seconds before throwing a pokeball. If you do this for everyone you catch it would take forever.

If we were to do a single segment of this, it's faster just to evolve pokemon with stones and candies.

As for catching rare pokemon, you would save and reset a bunch of times so you would run into them first and save more time. When doing a single segment, I think we would just catch more pokemon in the safari zone.

We need the candies to level up Blastoise for the E4R2, mostly because of your Rival. Rival starts out with Heracross, so I doubt there's gonna be time to X-item Blastoise, and it'd be nice if it lived through at least one attack. :P. 
It's probably smarter to get  hit with a Megahorn, and then use Counter.[/quote]

You contradicted yourself just now.  How can we save candies for Blastoise in a SS run if we're using them for evolution?

Phở

Edit history:

Phở: 2008-05-26 07:07:34 pm

2008-05-26 07:05:39 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

cos you said "Perhaps we can Rare Candy level up 11 wild pokemon."

we should save most of the candies for Blastoise.

for a SS run, I need to modify the list so we can run into pokemon that show up most of the time and are easy to catch, while saving most of our rare candies.

gia

Edit history:

gia: 2008-05-26 07:49:46 pm

2008-05-26 07:47:57 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

after catching so many you sure would have an ok flyer right? worst case start with x defense or growl/intimidate, you can still rare candy for evolution

Phở

Edit history:

Phở: 2008-05-26 08:00:29 pm

2008-05-26 07:56:53 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

omg... Intimidate would be perfect for round 2 of the elite 4. We can half Tyranitar's attack with Ekans and Arcanine. Thanks, gia!

List updated. Pokemon are listed in a manner as to how often they show up, how easy they are to catch, and that you don't have to reset so many times, making it more SS friendly (I hope). Onix and Fearow were moved to the end cos you'll have ultra balls and they will be easier to catch.

FractalFusion

Edit history:

FractalFusion: 2008-05-27 11:07:40 am

2008-05-27 10:55:09 am

Quote:

Cos I remember reading one topic about a SS blue version run, but it was uploaded in segments. What's the rule?

It may be Youtube's fault. It won't allow videos over 10 minutes.
Or it could just be convenience on the uploader's part.

Uploading in segments and segmenting a run are two very different things. Don't get them confused.

Quote:

Also, Fractal Fusion mentioned that the encounter rate depends on the number of steps in Fire Red

That is only relevant in tool-assistance (and it's not encounter rate, but encounter event). When starting from a saved game (in a segmented run), it doesn't apply.

Phở

2008-05-27 01:00:03 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

would it mater if it's segmented/single-segment or TAS'ed? You still wouldn't control when any pokemon pops up. That's why we should repel in areas when you run into pokemon like every 2 seconds. Tongue

UltimateDarius

2008-05-27 07:13:42 pm

Back in the game!

Quote:

omg... Intimidate would be perfect for round 2 of the elite 4. We can half Tyranitar's attack with Ekans and Arcanine. Thanks, gia!

List updated. Pokemon are listed in a manner as to how often they show up, how easy they are to catch, and that you don't have to reset so many times, making it more SS friendly (I hope). Onix and Fearow were moved to the end cos you'll have ultra balls and they will be easier to catch.

Why is our level 70 something Blastoise afraid of a level 75 Tyranitar exactly? I suspect we're going to OHKO it with Surf or hydro pump at this point in the run.

Phở

2008-05-27 08:05:51 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

Blastoise would be level 70 by then? I didn't think it would be level 70 by then. Then we don't need intimidate. whoops.

Still... that heracross.

Hey, Darius, does that list look good to you?

UltimateDarius

2008-05-29 05:07:32 pm

Back in the game!

My suggestions:

Let's make route 3 a segment, trying to catch Jigglypuff right off the bat, since stones are faster. End this segment in one of the tunnels of Mt. Moon and make the beginning of the next segment Clefairy catch.

Eliminate your "almost victory road" segment. We want the itemfinder, so we can get the PP max on Island 1 (keeps us from pokecentering/ethering/elixering as much). I don't know that we want Hydro Cannon necessarily (unless perhaps heracross?), but you encounter a Fearow constantly in that grass, and golduck frequent both the grass and water here. Gloom/Weepingbell also are pretty common here.

I caught 3 Chansey in my testing...but no lucky eggs. When I get it, I will let everyone know the results...honestly, I hope it is not worth the trouble...but if it is, then it will be awesome to see it utilized (needless to say, safari zone will be the beginning of it's own segment. Also, if it is worth it, we're moving the stone evolution part of the strategy to fuschia city so we can claim our lucky egg (and so we don't do the entire safari zone part only to find that the chansey we caught wasn't so lucky after all.)

Also testing in progress: rain dance vs. buying X-items.

My suggestions:

Let's make route 3 a segment, trying to catch Jigglypuff right off the bat, since stones are faster.  End this segment in one of the tunnels of Mt. Moon and make the beginning of the next segment Clefairy catch.

Eliminate your "almost victory road" segment.  We want the itemfinder, so we can get the PP max on Island 1 (keeps us from pokecentering/ethering/elixering as much).  I don't know that we want Hydro Cannon necessarily (unless perhaps heracross?), but you encounter a Fearow constantly in that grass, and golduck frequent both the grass and water here.  Gloom/Weepingbell also are pretty common here.

I caught 3 Chansey in my testing...but no lucky eggs.  When I get it, I will let everyone know the results...honestly, I hope it is not worth the trouble...but if it is, then it will be awesome to see it utilized (needless to say, safari zone will be the beginning of it's own segment.  Also, if it is worth it, we're moving the stone evolution part of the strategy to fuschia city so we can claim our lucky egg (and so we don't do the entire safari zone part only to find that the chansey we caught wasn't so lucky after all.)

Also testing in progress:  rain dance vs. buying X-items.

UltimateDarius

2008-07-16 06:55:57 am

Back in the game!

I need someone with action replay and whom has familiarity with the nature of this run to test for me, I don't have the time to lucky egg test anymore. Either that, or a list of trainers and exp earned, and a chart of level ups for Blastoise based upon experience, and I can do the math. I do (finally) have a new recorder, and I plan to get the SS to SDA soon. That's all for now though. Hopefully this topic won't end up in the dark again Sad

gia

2008-07-16 08:51:04 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Exp req for next level for blastoise (first two levels might be wrong)
1
8
48
39
39
44
57
78
105
141
182
231
288
351
423
500
585
678
777
885
998
1119
1248
1383
1527
1676
1833
1998
2169
2349
2534
2727
2928
3135
3351
3572
3801
4038
4281
4533
4790
5055
5328
5607
5895
6188
6489
6798
7113
7437
7766
8103
8448
8799
9159
9524
9897
10278
10665
11061
11462
11871
12288
12711
13143
13580
14025
14478
14937
15405
15878
16359
16848
17343
17847
18356
18873
19398
19929
20469
21014
21567
22128
22695
23271
23852
24441
25038
25641
26253
26870
27495
28128
28767
29415
30068
30729
31398
32073
32757
0

Get an emu and play for the trainer list

UltimateDarius

2008-07-30 05:46:57 pm

Back in the game!

Need an opinon folks. It seems as though I need 50 exp to make the difference between an extra level up before fighting brock. This spans out to be any two battles between a level 3 and a level 4 pokemon either between pallet and viridian or in the forest. Each of these battles takes about 3 turns to finish, for a total of 6. The result? If done before fighting the bug catcher, it brings the bug catcher battle down to a 3HKO with torrented bubble, from 6HKOed tackle, sandshrew down from 3 to 2HKO, and brock's onix down to a OHKO. Then, after onix, water gun is learned, and the next trainer is down from 2HKO to OHKO on all 3 of his pokes. Are the 2 extra battles worth it? Timewise, I mean?