Play it again, for the first time.

2006-01-01 09:31:12 pm

Sleeping Terror

Quote:

The left stick on the ps2 controller should be placed where the d-pad is. My thumb loathes it. :/

^ That.

And the hard-to-remember random polygonal naming scheme for the buttons. And the chopped-up D-pad. Also, I prefer the Cube's button sizes and clicky triggers - I love the feel of it.

I have no clue why the PS2 controller gets praised as much as it does. It's so uncomfortable and annoying.

CannibalK9

2006-01-01 09:58:18 pm

give me your eyes!!!

Isn't the stick being where the d-pad is a feature of the xbox controller. I can't remember but I'm sure I had massive trouble playing on the xbox because I was so used to the ps2.

I suppose it would be tricky for first time users, but really all controller layouts are difficult initially.

My ps2 pads (about 6 of them) have never had a single problem.
My first xbox controller was the size of my head so I got a smaller (still oversized one) and it broke within a few days.

[on topic] the game for me with my limited library would possibly be Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. I remember it being the coolest thing I had ever played for the first few hours, although that has long worn off it's still fun. Would be nice to be amazed at what is now completely normal.

Other one could be Ratchet and Clank (I know, I don't play many games) due to the sheer overwhelming franticness in a genre I thought I was overly familiar with.

Enhasa

2006-01-01 11:39:40 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I just assume whatever controller you're used to the most would be the one you prefer.

Strangeness, it's not like the letter button-naming convention makes any sense either. It just takes a while to get used to whichever controller scheme you're currently using. At least the PS2 and Xbox controllers have redundant name and color to button mappings (think SFC compared to SNES), although MS couldn't bother thinking up of letters for the "white" and "black" buttons.

I actually like the split up d-pad, but that's because I play a lot of RPGs and stuff with lots of menu manipulation. If I still played fighters or used it outside of menus, I would most definitely hate it though.

I agree that the d-pad and the analog should be switched, but at least the analog never gets in your thumb's way like it does on the Xbox. I also like the right hand layout of the GC the best (the big A button is like a home key, always letting you know where you are, and works well wrt Fitts' law).

The PS2 controller is, in my experience, the most durable, for what that's worth. It also seems like the right weight and also button feedback (I don't like my keyboard to be too clicky either), in between the others for both. These could just be that I'm more used to it by now.

I appreciate that Nintendo is trying to innovate and improve, and I think most people like the PS2's controller simply because it's similar to the SNES and people like familiarity. Personally though, the PS2 wins for me by default because the Xbox has those tiny, hard, convex buttons that give me calluses, and despite the little nibs, my thumb always keeps falling off the analog on the GC. The subjective factor is very large anyway, ergonomics be damned.

I just assume whatever controller you're used to the most would be the one you prefer.

Strangeness, it's not like the letter button-naming convention makes any sense either. It just takes a while to get used to whichever controller scheme you're currently using. At least the PS2 and Xbox controllers have redundant name and color to button mappings (think SFC compared to SNES), although MS couldn't bother thinking up of letters for the "white" and "black" buttons.

I actually like the split up d-pad, but that's because I play a lot of RPGs and stuff with lots of menu manipulation. If I still played fighters or used it outside of menus, I would most definitely hate it though.

I agree that the d-pad and the analog should be switched, but at least the analog never gets in your thumb's way like it does on the Xbox. I also like the right hand layout of the GC the best (the big A button is like a home key, always letting you know where you are, and works well wrt [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27_law]Fitts' law[/url]).

The PS2 controller is, in my experience, the most durable, for what that's worth. It also seems like the right weight and also button feedback (I don't like my keyboard to be too clicky either), in between the others for both. These could just be that I'm more used to it by now.

I appreciate that Nintendo is trying to innovate and improve, and I think most people like the PS2's controller simply because it's similar to the SNES and people like familiarity. Personally though, the PS2 wins for me by default because the Xbox has those tiny, hard, convex buttons that give me calluses, and despite the little nibs, my thumb always keeps falling off the analog on the GC. The subjective factor is very large anyway, ergonomics be damned.

HeroPenguin

2006-01-02 03:47:06 am

Rock on, Earthbound. Rock on.

My GC's analog has gotten looser over time, but it's still MUCH tighter than my friend's PS2 analogs EVER were. and I play a wide range of games on that, including the crazy "MAKE THE ANALOG GO HERE NOW!" gameplay of Smash, Tony Hawk, and Soul Calibur, among others. My analogs have been thoroughly abused over time, and only one has actually started getting tweaky (it drifts slightly to the right), and this was after several years of arduous play. As for the triggers, I prefer the resistance and the clicking, as others have mentioned, and the PS2's "pressure sensitive" buttons I have neither felt any real difference from nor actually seen them put to any practical use. I like the GC's button layout, though I will grant that the Z trigger can be overly finnicky and small. Good thing it is almost never mapped to an important function, huh?

For what it's worth, once the Revolution gets here, I fully expect to look back and wonder aloud "What the **** did we ever see in those things?" Nintendo has a habit of doing things like that... Not many games are played with the D-Pad anymore after the N64 pushed the analog stick so much, after all.

Mario 64 is still for the win, though. Unless Mario 128 or whatever they wind up calling it blows it out of the water, I doubt there will ever be a game that will impress me so much as that one did. Now that I've said that, please, Nintendo, PROVE ME WRONG! I would have a fangasm right on the spot.

My GC's analog has gotten looser over time, but it's still MUCH tighter than my friend's PS2 analogs EVER were.  and I play a wide range of games on that, including the crazy "MAKE THE ANALOG GO HERE NOW!" gameplay of Smash, Tony Hawk, and Soul Calibur, among others.  My analogs have been thoroughly abused over time, and only one has actually started getting tweaky (it drifts slightly to the right), and this was after several years of arduous play.  As for the triggers, I prefer the resistance and the clicking, as others have mentioned, and the PS2's "pressure sensitive" buttons I have neither felt any real difference from nor actually seen them put to any practical use.  I like the GC's button layout, though I will grant that the Z trigger can be overly finnicky and small.  Good thing it is almost never mapped to an important function, huh?

For what it's worth, once the Revolution gets here, I fully expect to look back and wonder aloud "What the **** did we ever see in those things?"  Nintendo has a habit of doing things like that...  Not many games are played with the D-Pad anymore after the N64 pushed the analog stick so much, after all.

Mario 64 is still for the win, though.  Unless Mario 128 or whatever they wind up calling it blows it out of the water, I doubt there will ever be a game that will impress me so much as that one did.  Now that I've said that, please, Nintendo, PROVE ME WRONG!  I would have a fangasm right on the spot.

Kibbo

2006-01-02 10:09:55 am

TIOLET!

Maybe it was just a one time thing, but the controller I got bundled with my GCN seemed to be of lower quality than my seperately bought controllers. The buttons got loose and non-responsive after just a few weeks.

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2006-01-02 11:14:06 am

2006-01-02 11:13:53 am

sda loyalist

*checks topic*

I dunno... Mario 64 just never appealed to me that way. I find it hard to be immersed in gameplay when everything is put together in such a cutesy and twee way. While indeed the physics of the game were very open-ended and free, the stop-start nature of the gameplay hurts it in my opinion.
And as for Spyro being 'platformer lite'... Smiley

I really don't agree, I've spent many hours collecting every gem on Spyro 1 & 2, getting to know the levels, trying to do supercharge tricks, etc. These levels made me actually want to explore them! Though Spyro's voice sucks. But then again, so does Mario's.
Also, Spyro has a much better soundtrack. Smiley

[hr]Er, crap, back on topic.
I'd like to forget everything about MDK actually, so that I could relive the weirdness of the surroundings and burst out laughing at the enemy animations again. A severely underrated game in my opinion, and surprisingly difficult.

Polsy

2006-01-02 02:04:11 pm

Quote:

well i think anyone who played any zelda game, would love to go back to when they first played it. Links awakening was a special one for me and ofcourse so was OoT.

Golden sun 1 and 2. I know not the best rpg's in the world and a few people dont like them, but when i first played them a few years ago i was mesmorized. i didn't want it to finish..... and it didn't, and they STILL havn't released a sequal! (DAM YOU CAMELOT!! WHAT COULD BE MORE IMPORTANT???)

i wanna go and play chrono trigger, besause thats something i missed out on and ive heard so much about it.

I have to agree with all of that (well, except the Yoshi stuff I cut out), since it persuaded me to finish off Golden Sun 2 (though it's more like they left an opening for a sequel than there has to be one).

LA was my first Zelda, first RPG, N64 was my first full-size console, so that, OoT (and MM) were pretty special. As for CT, and the Mana games, yeah, the speedruns make me wish I had the consoles and games to play myself.

[quote]well i think anyone who played any zelda game, would love to go back to when they first played it. Links awakening was a special one for me and ofcourse so was OoT.

Golden sun 1 and 2. I know not the best rpg's in the world and a few people dont like them, but when i first played them a few years ago i was mesmorized. i didn't want it to finish..... and it didn't, and they STILL havn't released a sequal! (DAM YOU CAMELOT!! WHAT COULD BE MORE IMPORTANT???)

i wanna go and play chrono trigger, besause thats something i missed out on and ive heard so much about it.[/quote]

I have to agree with all of that (well, except the Yoshi stuff I cut out), since it persuaded me to finish off Golden Sun 2 (though it's more like they left an opening for a sequel than there [u]has[/u] to be one).

LA was my first Zelda, first RPG, N64 was my first full-size console, so that, OoT (and MM) were pretty special. As for CT, and the Mana games, yeah, the speedruns make me wish I had the consoles and games to play myself.

ape snake

2006-01-02 05:44:15 pm

MGS3
Because I saw a part of the run(the first) and it spoiled half of the fun.

acxy500

2006-01-02 11:38:13 pm

Halo!

Nothing is better, nothing ever will be

InsaneB4st4rd

2006-01-02 11:45:21 pm

Still alive...

OoT for sure. I loved (and still love it) this game. Would be great to play it again for the first time.

and Final Fantasy 7. Man this game was so great.

tenfoLd

2006-01-03 01:14:04 am

FFX-not really because I overly enjoyed it but just because I restarted my file and now I can't even bear to start it again because of the incredibly annoying long cutscenes Roll Eyes

I want to play it cause it gets pretty fun after you beat it, but the unskippable cutscenes make me wanna barf

ReverendTed

2006-01-03 01:26:00 am

As suggested earlier, it'd be a puzzle game or something extremely story-driven that I think would give the most benefit from being able to "forget".

I'd have to go with Grim Fandango or Shadow of the Colossus. Though Sam and Max does come to mind.

Now that I think about it, it'd be pretty neat to forget everything I knew about GTA III and experience the freedom again.
There's a thought - which one would be more impressive if you'd never seen any of the series before: GTA III or San Andreas? Would San Andreas just be overwhelming as a first experience?

The more I think about this topic, the more that comes to mind. I remember being very impressed with the Stalingrad level of Call of Duty the first time I saw it. Incredibly cinematic.

7 0 x 7

2006-01-03 05:50:36 am

ouch!

mario64

HeroPenguin

2006-01-03 06:27:05 pm

Rock on, Earthbound. Rock on.

Quote:

*checks topic*

Well, I like physics and freedom more than most other functions of games. The more options there are for doing any particular thing, the happier I am. One reason why I prefer platformers to most other genres. Spyro may well not be what I see it as, but I don't have a large experience with the games. I played and saw played the first game in the series, and wasn't really impressed with the options available.

Besides, cutesy and tweet is awesome, and I hardly see how you can put down Mario 64 for being so and then upholding Spyro in the same breath. That just seems hypocritical.

Patricio

2006-01-03 08:16:34 pm

MarioKart64.com biotch!

My GC's analog has gotten looser over time, but it's still MUCH tighter than my friend's PS2 analogs EVER were. and I play a wide range of games on that, including the crazy "MAKE THE ANALOG GO HERE NOW!" gameplay of Smash, Tony Hawk, and Soul Calibur, among others.

The only good system for the tony hawk games is playstation. Why would you ever use the joystick in a tony hawk game?

7 0 x 7

2006-01-03 08:23:44 pm

ouch!

Quote:

^ That.

And the hard-to-remember random polygonal naming scheme for the buttons. And the chopped-up D-pad. Also, I prefer the Cube's button sizes and clicky triggers - I love the feel of it.

I have no clue why the PS2 controller gets praised as much as it does. It's so uncomfortable and annoying.

i like psx controller. pc controllers are the same layout almost exact to the psx. I is simetrical. For me its comfortable. It might be because girls have smaller hands. But It is a great design!

As for xbox i hate how they have a white and black button off center instead of l2 and r2. it makes it so anoying when its important. you can't use abxy while hitting the white and black buttons .... laaaammeeee....

game cube controller i haven't really used much but i have no complaints...

Enhasa

2006-01-04 04:37:39 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

My GC's analog has gotten looser over time, but it's still MUCH tighter than my friend's PS2 analogs EVER were. and I play a wide range of games on that, including the crazy "MAKE THE ANALOG GO HERE NOW!" gameplay of Smash, Tony Hawk, and Soul Calibur, among others.

I bet you could objectively be proven wrong on this if you're implying average GC and average PS2. Also, for some reason nobody knows this, but you can pull out on your PS2 analog stick to make them tighter. And I have to say, I can think of no game ever which puts a beating on your analogs than Katamari Damacy. Just think about it. I was actually wanting a GC level of looseness for that.

Quote:

PS2's "pressure sensitive" buttons I have neither felt any real difference from nor actually seen them put to any practical use.

Maybe you haven't seen any practical use, but there's a widely known game out there called Madden that you may have heard of, and it matters a lot every single time you throw the ball. To varying degrees, all 3 controllers have pressure sensitive buttons, and many games now have some sort of pressure sensitive features, but this one is blatant.

Quote:

I like the GC's button layout, though I will grant that the Z trigger can be overly finnicky and small. Good thing it is almost never mapped to an important function, huh?

Nintendo actually originally wanted not to include that button at all, but added it at the last minute due to 3rd party developer pressure. So it ought not to be used much.

Quote:

For what it's worth, once the Revolution gets here, I fully expect to look back and wonder aloud "What the **** did we ever see in those things?" Nintendo has a habit of doing things like that... Not many games are played with the D-Pad anymore after the N64 pushed the analog stick so much, after all.

I'll let you speculate on the first part since it's not out yet and I have no evidence to the contrary, but that last sentence is just plain ignorance.

Quote:

Mario 64 is still for the win, though. Unless Mario 128 or whatever they wind up calling it blows it out of the water, I doubt there will ever be a game that will impress me so much as that one did. Now that I've said that, please, Nintendo, PROVE ME WRONG! I would have a fangasm right on the spot.

Unless "Mario 128" is in 4D, I doubt this is possible.

Quote:

FFX-not really because I overly enjoyed it but just because I restarted my file and now I can't even bear to start it again because of the incredibly annoying long cutscenes Roll Eyes

I want to play it cause it gets pretty fun after you beat it, but the unskippable cutscenes make me wanna barf

I've always wondered, why do people force themselves to play games they can't stand playing? If FF10 "gets pretty fun after you beat it," is that a good thing? That's like the speakers that get the most applause being the ones who talk too long and everyone is just glad that they're finally done.

Quote:

Golden sun 1 and 2. I know not the best rpg's in the world and a few people dont like them, but when i first played them a few years ago i was mesmorized. i didn't want it to finish..... and it didn't, and they STILL havn't released a sequal! (DAM YOU CAMELOT!! WHAT COULD BE MORE IMPORTANT???)

Don't put yourself down on Golden Sun like that. They have to be easily the best original RPGs on the GBA. Don't hold your breath for Golden Sun 3 though. IIRC, people seem pretty sure that it's never going to happen.

[quote]My GC's analog has gotten looser over time, but it's still MUCH tighter than my friend's PS2 analogs EVER were.  and I play a wide range of games on that, including the crazy "MAKE THE ANALOG GO HERE NOW!" gameplay of Smash, Tony Hawk, and Soul Calibur, among others.[/quote]
I bet you could objectively be proven wrong on this if you're implying average GC and average PS2. Also, for some reason nobody knows this, but you can pull out on your PS2 analog stick to make them tighter. And I have to say, I can think of no game ever which puts a beating on your analogs than Katamari Damacy. Just think about it. I was actually wanting a GC level of looseness for that.

[quote]PS2's "pressure sensitive" buttons I have neither felt any real difference from nor actually seen them put to any practical use.[/quote]
Maybe [i]you[/i] haven't seen any practical use, but there's a widely known game out there called Madden that you may have heard of, and it matters a lot every single time you throw the ball. To varying degrees, all 3 controllers have pressure sensitive buttons, and many games now have some sort of pressure sensitive features, but this one is blatant.

[quote]I like the GC's button layout, though I will grant that the Z trigger can be overly finnicky and small.  Good thing it is almost never mapped to an important function, huh?[/quote]
Nintendo actually originally wanted not to include that button at all, but added it at the last minute due to 3rd party developer pressure. So it ought not to be used much.

[quote]For what it's worth, once the Revolution gets here, I fully expect to look back and wonder aloud "What the **** did we ever see in those things?"  Nintendo has a habit of doing things like that...  Not many games are played with the D-Pad anymore after the N64 pushed the analog stick so much, after all.[/quote]
I'll let you speculate on the first part since it's not out yet and I have no evidence to the contrary, but that last sentence is just plain ignorance.

[quote]Mario 64 is still for the win, though.  Unless Mario 128 or whatever they wind up calling it blows it out of the water, I doubt there will ever be a game that will impress me so much as that one did.  Now that I've said that, please, Nintendo, PROVE ME WRONG!  I would have a fangasm right on the spot.[/quote]
Unless "Mario 128" is in 4D, I doubt this is possible.

[quote]FFX-not really because I overly enjoyed it but just because I restarted my file and now I can't even bear to start it again because of the incredibly annoying long cutscenes  ::) I want to play it cause it gets pretty fun after you beat it, but the unskippable cutscenes make me wanna barf[/quote]
I've always wondered, why do people force themselves to play games they can't stand playing? If FF10 "gets pretty fun after you beat it," is that a good thing? That's like the speakers that get the most applause being the ones who talk too long and everyone is just glad that they're finally done.

[quote]Golden sun 1 and 2. I know not the best rpg's in the world and a few people dont like them, but when i first played them a few years ago i was mesmorized. i didn't want it to finish..... and it didn't, and they STILL havn't released a sequal! (DAM YOU CAMELOT!! WHAT COULD BE MORE IMPORTANT???)[/quote]
Don't put yourself down on Golden Sun like that. They have to be easily the best original RPGs on the GBA. Don't hold your breath for Golden Sun 3 though. IIRC, people seem pretty sure that it's never going to happen.

HeroPenguin

Edit history:

HeroPenguin: 2006-01-04 05:45:36 am

2006-01-04 05:42:16 am

Rock on, Earthbound. Rock on.

Quote:

The only good system for the tony hawk games is playstation. Why would you ever use the joystick in a tony hawk game?

Because I own a GC and I wanted Tony Hawk and the GC's D-pad isn't very good. It's pretty simple, really, and beleive it or not, it worked to my satisfaction.

Now, for Enhasa's post.

I never said average in the post you quoted, but it does happen to be my experience. I've yet to handle a PS2 controller with tighter joysticks than my GC's sticks. I thank you for that PS2 analog trick, I'll have to try it next time I use them, it may help my opinion of them. Can they be returned to their previous tightness later on, or does pulling them out tighten them permanently?

Regarding Katamari Damacy, the only aspect of it I can really think of that puts the same kind of beating on the sticks as I was referring to would be the charge and roll, which as far as I played with it, didn't seem terribly vital. Then again, I didn't put that much time into the game, not owning it myself, so I could be wrong.

I have never once played a Madden game, nor have any interest in it. I didn't have the slightest idea that it used pressure controls, but good on it for doing so. Maybe I just don't play the right types of games for the pressure sensitive-capitalising games, but I haven't seen or heard or experienced any games, aside from Madden, apparently, that make extensive and effective use of that element of the controls.

Perhaps I did misphrase my comment on the D-pad's use. I should have said "a majority of games produced in the present generation do not make extensive use of the D-pad as the primary control option for the player interface." Is that better? The fact remains that the analog stick is the element of choice for a great many games today, and that was popularized in the console market largely in part of the N64's integration of it. I will not claim that the N64 was the original source of the analog stick, but it was only after the N64 released that the original dual stick controllers came out for the PSX and became popular for console use. I'm pretty sure that's not quite so ignorant of a position.

You're probably right about Mario 128. It doesn't change the fact that if they DO manage to improve on Mario 64 without any major shortcomings that damaged Mario Sunshine, for example (off the top of my head, lack of freedom in progression, abridged move list, lackluster voices and cutscenes), I will be a very very happy gamer.

[quote]The only good system for the tony hawk games is playstation. Why would you ever use the joystick in a tony hawk game?[/quote]

Because I own a GC and I wanted Tony Hawk and the GC's D-pad isn't very good.  It's pretty simple, really, and beleive it or not, it worked to my satisfaction.

Now, for Enhasa's post.

I never said average in the post you quoted, but it does happen to be my experience.  I've yet to handle a PS2 controller with tighter joysticks than my GC's sticks.  I thank you for that PS2 analog trick, I'll have to try it next time I use them, it may help my opinion of them.  Can they be returned to their previous tightness later on, or does pulling them out tighten them permanently?

Regarding Katamari Damacy, the only aspect of it I can really think of that puts the same kind of beating on the sticks as I was referring to would be the charge and roll, which as far as I played with it, didn't seem terribly vital.  Then again, I didn't put that much time into the game, not owning it myself, so I could be wrong.

I have never once played a Madden game, nor have any interest in it.  I didn't have the slightest idea that it used pressure controls, but good on it for doing so.  Maybe I just don't play the right types of games for the pressure sensitive-capitalising games, but I haven't seen or heard or experienced any games, aside from Madden, apparently, that make extensive and effective use of that element of the controls.
 
Perhaps I did misphrase my comment on the D-pad's use.  I should have said "a majority of games produced in the present generation do not make extensive use of the D-pad as the primary control option for the player interface."  Is that better?  The fact remains that the analog stick is the element of choice for a great many games today, and that was popularized in the console market largely in part of the N64's integration of it.  I will not claim that the N64 was the original source of the analog stick, but it was only after the N64 released that the original dual stick controllers came out for the PSX and became popular for console use.  I'm pretty sure that's not quite so ignorant of a position.

You're probably right about Mario 128.  It doesn't change the fact that if they DO manage to improve on Mario 64 without any major shortcomings that damaged Mario Sunshine, for example (off the top of my head, lack of freedom in progression, abridged move list, lackluster voices and cutscenes), I will be a very very happy gamer.

Lag.Com

2006-01-04 10:36:36 am

sda loyalist

Quote:

hypocritical.

You're telling me Spyro is cutesy? That's not right... think of the difference between Mario and Sonic. Mario (not literally the character, but the game world) is cute, Sonic is 'attitude'; a common ploy to get young males to play the game. This is also what they did with Spyro.
The second game is slightly more childish than the first, thanks to the mightily annoying voices, and some of the quests. However, it does not come anywhere near the "Oh dear! Whatever shall we do?" feeling of Mario. Smiley

HeroPenguin

2006-01-05 12:00:27 am

Rock on, Earthbound. Rock on.

You play as a midget purple dragon with a dragonfly guide/guardian/pet/master of disguise. The ogres, or whatever they are that you go up against aren't particularly threatening in any way, and mostly look goofy. A friend of mine played Spyro almost for the express reason that it was "So cute!" I'm not saying that Mario isn't cutesy, but Spyro is "guilty" of it as well. I don't care if he was a dragon with attitude, he was cute.

Enhasa

2006-01-05 07:36:58 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

I thank you for that PS2 analog trick, I'll have to try it next time I use them, it may help my opinion of them. Can they be returned to their previous tightness later on, or does pulling them out tighten them permanently?

It's just temporary. In fact, it's close to useless in a game where you have to use the L3/R3 button (not all that many... L3 is clicking with the analog), because you'd have to keep on pulling it out after you hit L3. I've never actually had the need for it though, mind you, so I'm not entirely sure if perhaps the pulling itself might get loose after awhile. Wink

Not if you kept it like that and don't need L3 though I bet.

Quote:

I have never once played a Madden game, nor have any interest in it. I didn't have the slightest idea that it used pressure controls, but good on it for doing so.

Well, I'm not saying you ought to have any interest, but since it's one of the highest selling games of all time, it's a high profile example. Oh, and about KD, you're right -- I was thinking about the charge move.

Quote:

I will not claim that the N64 was the original source of the analog stick, but it was only after the N64 released that the original dual stick controllers came out for the PSX and became popular for console use. I'm pretty sure that's not quite so ignorant of a position.

Sorry, I was probably too harsh on you the first time. I don't criticize wording or details or any of that, but I got the vibe that you were saying that without Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft would not have analogs on their controllers. Analog controls have of course been around forever. I think you can agree, Nintendo didn't do anything revolutionary including them on the N64 that would merit "What the hell did we ever see in those things?" Although perhaps that's not what you were implying, that's what I meant.

Oh, I won't be getting into you and Lag.Com's little discussion, but I will say that I remember Spyro was considered very cutesy at the time and "all the girls love Spyro" etc. How this affects Mario 64 and hypocrisy, I'll leave up to someone else.

[quote]I thank you for that PS2 analog trick, I'll have to try it next time I use them, it may help my opinion of them.  Can they be returned to their previous tightness later on, or does pulling them out tighten them permanently?[/quote]
It's just temporary. In fact, it's close to useless in a game where you have to use the L3/R3 button (not all that many... L3 is clicking with the analog), because you'd have to keep on pulling it out after you hit L3. I've never actually had the need for it though, mind you, so I'm not entirely sure if perhaps the pulling itself might get loose after awhile. ;) Not if you kept it like that and don't need L3 though I bet.

[quote]I have never once played a Madden game, nor have any interest in it.  I didn't have the slightest idea that it used pressure controls, but good on it for doing so.[/quote]
Well, I'm not saying you ought to have any interest, but since it's one of the highest selling games of all time, it's a high profile example. Oh, and about KD, you're right -- I was thinking about the charge move.

[quote]I will not claim that the N64 was the original source of the analog stick, but it was only after the N64 released that the original dual stick controllers came out for the PSX and became popular for console use.  I'm pretty sure that's not quite so ignorant of a position.[/quote]
Sorry, I was probably too harsh on you the first time. I don't criticize wording or details or any of that, but I got the vibe that you were saying that without Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft would not have analogs on their controllers. Analog controls have of course been around forever. I think you can agree, Nintendo didn't do anything revolutionary including them on the N64 that would merit "What the hell did we ever see in those things?" Although perhaps that's not what you were implying, that's what I meant.

Oh, I won't be getting into you and Lag.Com's little discussion, but I will say that I remember Spyro was considered very cutesy at the time and "all the girls love Spyro" etc. How this affects Mario 64 and hypocrisy, I'll leave up to someone else.

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2006-01-05 08:19:52 am

2006-01-05 08:16:36 am

Sleeping Terror

Nintendo didn't invent analog sticks, but they did implement them at the precise moment when they were needed. This was the same point in time when companies like Sony were trying to make 3D games work with a rehashed SNES controller. If not for Nintendo, eventually someone else would have stumbled upon the usefulness of an analog stick in 3D games... but they were the ones to actually do it.

Don't downplay Nintendo's influence. They come up with a lot of radical ideas, and an amazingly large percentage of those ideas stick.

As for Spyro... brightly colored? Large head? Tiny wings? Yep, he's cutesy.

I hear the Xbox360 does not have pressure sensitive buttons, aside from the triggers. The Xbox did. So, after trying them out, Microsoft doesn't think they're important. And Microsoft is the king of adding extra features to whatever they can get ahold of, usefulness be dammed.

Pweisger

2006-01-06 06:53:26 am

PwNzRd!

Nintendo has revolutionized gaming. Were it not for the Game Boy or Nes/Snes, we wouldn't be for shit where we are with games nowadays.

Zanthra

2006-01-07 01:12:14 am

Heh, there is no question about it in my mind, my favorite game of all time has absolutely no replay value. Myst IV was am amazing story, and links a lot of the myst games together, with wonderful puzzles and just plain gorgeous graphics, if I had to chose a game to forget about entirely and replay it would be that one.

StrangenessDSS

2006-01-07 02:04:07 am

Sleeping Terror

How is the difficulty on Myst IV? 'Cause I loved the first two, but then I beat the third in one sitting and kinda lost interest in the series...