Planning the next Awesome Games Done Quick

Sir VG

2011-06-18 02:59:35 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from dballin:

VG was the race king last year and if i'm not mistaken he won all of them too. i dont wanna race anymore Sad

I only won 2/3. Satoryu beat me on the RoB/DXC race by a minute or so.

Quote from Flip:

VG will practice and be prepared for a race of Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing if he thinks somebody at AGDQ will want to race it Wink

Nah. Unless we want a troll game. However, I will have a rematch with Satoryu on DXC. Because it is needed. And I demand it.

Pootrain

Edit history:

Pootrain: 2011-06-18 05:24:58 pm

2011-06-18 05:24:38 pm

train kept rollin

Since this hasnt been brought up yet, I remember someone saying that we might have been able to get someone like Subway to sponser(?) the marathon last year so we could get free food as long as they get a mention or something. The amount we used that place it would come in handy.

mikwuyma

2011-06-18 05:44:36 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

pootrain, the next focus is going to be going over which games we'll do for the next AGDQ, and working out a couple of logistics (like would people prefer a clock or a room with windows, or one room with windows and one windowless), but we'll definitely be trying to get some sponsorship once the marathon draws closer.

neskamikaze

2011-06-18 11:14:25 pm

Quote from Flip:

IIRC I was the undisputed king of Mario Party (although I never played against nes, and from what I heard I should consider myself lucky).

Anyway, you all can compete for 2nd best Tongue

Flip we are going to have to fix this next time. I only got to play one game of Mario Party last time, this will need to be corrected.

And also I like the idea of having a lot of racing. This will help the fact it will be nearly impossible to have games for everyone if there are more than one persons playing at once.

Raen

2011-06-18 11:33:53 pm

On the lots of racing comment, from the perspective of someone likely NOT going to be at AGDQ 2, races are super fun to watch.

Just sayin' Cheesy

Sir VG

2011-06-18 11:42:11 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Having been at AGDQ1, several of the races that I watched (especially the SOTN and OOT races) were indeed exciting to watch. While it would have been fun to have had games just to myself (because I'm a selfish bastard and all, if you couldn't guess from my desire to claim all records for myself. Tongue

), the races I participated in were fun. Plus maybe in the end it did take a bit of pressure off since the focus wasn't solely on me.

My thoughts and experiences. Yours may vary.

PJ

2011-06-19 12:23:14 am

Is PJ

I had trouble focusing on races. I personally don't like watching or participating in them, but it's pretty obvious I'm in the minority. If there was an entire marathon devoted to races, I would have an extremely difficult time watching for more than 20 minutes.

Just my $0.02.

Sir VG

2011-06-19 12:25:11 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from PJ:

I had trouble focusing on races. I personally don't like watching or participating in them, but it's pretty obvious I'm in the minority. If there was an entire marathon devoted to races, I would have an extremely difficult time watching for more than 20 minutes.

Just my $0.02.

You're just mad you lost to the POWER OF SLOWGA. Tongue

PJ

2011-06-19 12:29:31 am

Is PJ

No, I didn't like races even before the marathon. I won the Battletoads race, but that didn't make me like them any more. Tongue

puwexil

Edit history:

puwexil: 2011-06-19 12:50:31 am

2011-06-19 12:42:42 am

Professional Second Banana

Personally, I think that shorter games (30-45 minutes or less) make for the most entertaining races, since they're more likely to be closer. If 1 player pulls far ahead, I usually stop watching the 2nd player and just watch the winning one.

Sir VG

2011-06-19 12:48:37 am

Fucking Weeaboo

True, though the OOT race at about 75 minutes was close pretty much the whole way and was quite exciting.

The other advantage I see with doing more races is that since it appears we'll have more people, is that it'll allow more participation.
Of course the disadvantage is the split screen issues I remember some viewers had last year.

A double edged sword, indeed.

ShadowWraith

Edit history:

ShadowWraith: 2011-06-19 01:25:39 am

2011-06-19 01:22:25 am

.

Races are interesting but when half of the marathon is going to be races, they lose their charm. I find it much more entertaining to watch solo runs because I don't have to focus on two different screens at half size each. It's just like watching the same run twice with mistakes in different spots. :\

There's also the aspect that a lot of the commentary is wasted in races. Compare the OoT race to something like Flicky doing Bayonetta or Castle Crashers or whatever. The OoT commentary was just.. people responding to what happened on the screen, which is something the viewers can do themselves. There's no banter or shovel antics or ranting or "GODDAMNIT VENONAT CAN LEARN TELEPORT" etc.

Sir VG

2011-06-19 02:10:24 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Well, it depends on the game, of course. And I thought OOT was actually the most interesting race, with Glitchtoads a close second.

You're right in that it can, but it just depends on how it's done. Same thing with the split screen issue. Maybe we can see about a new idea for next year? We've got plenty of time.

Lag.Com

2011-06-19 03:21:20 am

sda loyalist

I don't like races; there's too much to watch, the stream quality takes a nosedive, most of the time only one person is worth watching, etc.

LLCoolDave

2011-06-19 04:30:14 am

I agree that races should be something special and not the norm. They are very hard to commentate on because the two players are doing different things, they are hard to follow in detail so anybody who doesn't know the games inside out misses a lot of the interesting parts by trying to watch both. It doesn't help that even with xsplit they weren't all that watchable, although it was still an immense step up from the first marathon.

There should be races for games that are suited for it in a sense. The OoT race made sense because we had 4 people around that were all very close in skill level on a very broken game. There was tension but also some time to explain the gist of the run because of the cutscenes. Super Meat Boy would make sense for a race because there really isn't much interesting to say about the game during a run. We need to have a twenty man race on You have to burn the rope just because it is a terrible idea. But beyond that I would pay close attention to which games we are going to have races for. If there's any need for explanatory commentary we should avoid races.

I agree that races should be something special and not the norm. They are very hard to commentate on because the two players are doing different things, they are hard to follow in detail so anybody who doesn't know the games inside out misses a lot of the interesting parts by trying to watch both. It doesn't help that even with xsplit they weren't all that watchable, although it was still an immense step up from the first marathon.

There should be races for games that are suited for it in a sense. The OoT race made sense because we had 4 people around that were all very close in skill level on a very broken game. There was tension but also some time to explain the gist of the run because of the cutscenes. Super Meat Boy would make sense for a race because there really isn't much interesting to say about the game during a run. We need to have a twenty man race on You have to burn the rope just because it is a terrible idea. But beyond that I would pay close attention to which games we are going to have races for. If there's any need for explanatory commentary we should avoid races.

romscout

2011-06-19 09:53:15 am

that Metroidvania guy

The reason OoT worked well was because we had an additional commentator explaining everything, not the runners who were staying focused on the run. I think with the great increase in runners streaming stuff, whether they are races or not, the likelihood of someone being able to step in and provide some commentary on what's happening will be a lot better than last AGDQ. In a worst case scenario, we can have some kind of cheat sheet for someone else who has played the game and maybe watched some streams except actually use it this time (unlike CGDQ).

As for the stream quality taking a dive during AGDQ races, it's pretty obvious that's the fault of webcammax being a crappy program. In the case of JRDQ, it was because everything was remote and ustream apparently chokes easily (or people's internet chokes easily when having to dl additional streams, whatev). Any issues that we've had in the last 2 marathons with races can be pretty much forgotten for AGDQ because we'll be using superior software and having all the video sources coming from the same room. Of course, there are still considerations to be made (max number of racers, how to set them up for best viewing, etc), but I'm pretty confident that we'll face a lot less technical issues simply with having an enjoyable viewing setup for races than before.

That all being said, I agree that we should be careful of making half the schedule races (if for nothing else, how much time would be spent setting up as opposed to playing games), but I don't think we necessarily need to have a hard limit on the number of races we'll have and cut games based on that alone. Hundreds of people have gone to watch SM64 raced in the same way daily for a long time and don't tire of it, and I have always had more viewers when I'm racing SotN than when I'm not, so it's not like your normal viewers (especially those who only see these SDA charity streams and don't watch regular speed running streams) are going to be bored with having a lot of races.

The reason OoT worked well was because we had an additional commentator explaining everything, not the runners who were staying focused on the run. I think with the great increase in runners streaming stuff, whether they are races or not, the likelihood of someone being able to step in and provide some commentary on what's happening will be a lot better than last AGDQ. In a worst case scenario, we can have some kind of cheat sheet for someone else who has played the game and maybe watched some streams except actually use it this time (unlike CGDQ).

As for the stream quality taking a dive during AGDQ races, it's pretty obvious that's the fault of webcammax being a crappy program. In the case of JRDQ, it was because everything was remote and ustream apparently chokes easily (or people's internet chokes easily when having to dl additional streams, whatev). Any issues that we've had in the last 2 marathons with races can be pretty much forgotten for AGDQ because we'll be using superior software and having all the video sources coming from the same room. Of course, there are still considerations to be made (max number of racers, how to set them up for best viewing, etc), but I'm pretty confident that we'll face a lot less technical issues simply with having an enjoyable viewing setup for races than before.

That all being said, I agree that we should be careful of making half the schedule races (if for nothing else, how much time would be spent setting up as opposed to playing games), but I don't think we necessarily need to have a hard limit on the number of races we'll have and cut games based on that alone. Hundreds of people have gone to watch SM64 raced in the same way daily for a long time and don't tire of it, and I have always had more viewers when I'm racing SotN than when I'm not, so it's not like your normal viewers (especially those who only see these SDA charity streams and don't watch regular speed running streams) are going to be bored with having a lot of races.

CrypticJacknife

2011-06-19 10:05:54 am

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

Yeah, half of the schedule as races could be pushing it a little far. But there isn't a doubt they are great events. More-so then it being a game with a lot of glitches to explain, the games that are seriously competitive should be lined up (SM64/OoT/SoTN needless to say come to mind). Hell these days even Pokemon Red/Blue is becoming arm's reach short of competitive at SRL. With JTV becoming stronger and many of the speed runners becoming a lot more in-tune with the works of streaming good quality co-hosts it seems likely that there won't be too many framerate or overall quality issues through another marathon.

But of course, let's not forget that some games aren't raced competitively but are still amazing to watch being done (SMG, MGS 1/2, Any type of Metroid game). Last thing that anyone wants to happen is these games get left in the dust of racing. What we need to work out is what balance would be a nice one, and how many people ready to race are there. Also yeah, OoT is great for the racing due to maximum cutscene time (lol even with so many cutscene skips too) for any explanations that anyone in the "crowd" may need. Things like SM64 and OoT, pretty much you just gotta play it by ear when it comes to working out what they are doing, lord knows it isn't 10% as confusing as some OoT glitching is.

Need I also point out how hawt'n'sweaty I'd get if SA2B was at this marathon? Wink

Yeah, half of the schedule as races could be pushing it a little far. But there isn't a doubt they are great events. More-so then it being a game with a lot of glitches to explain, the games that are seriously competitive should be lined up (SM64/OoT/SoTN needless to say come to mind). Hell these days even Pokemon Red/Blue is becoming arm's reach short of competitive at SRL. With JTV becoming stronger and many of the speed runners becoming a lot more in-tune with the works of streaming good quality co-hosts it seems likely that there won't be too many framerate or overall quality issues through another marathon.

But of course, let's not forget that some games aren't raced competitively but are still amazing to watch being done (SMG, MGS 1/2, Any type of Metroid game). Last thing that anyone wants to happen is these games get left in the dust of racing. What we need to work out is what balance would be a nice one, and how many people ready to race are there. Also yeah, OoT is great for the racing due to maximum cutscene time (lol even with so many cutscene skips too) for any explanations that anyone in the "crowd" may need. Things like SM64 and OoT, pretty much you just gotta play it by ear when it comes to working out what they are doing, lord knows it isn't 10% as confusing as some OoT glitching is.

Need I also point out how hawt'n'sweaty I'd get if SA2B was at this marathon? ;)

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2011-06-19 10:12:43 am

2011-06-19 10:11:11 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Lots of good points on races, though I think the "raced quick" comment wasn't really something to be taken too seriously, but since people are responding, I guess I will too.

I think races are good, but only if they're close, and there aren't too many of them. We don't want the entire marathon to be races, because like LL and Shadowwraith said, the commentary is mostly eaten up by commentating on the race. They also don't really get any more donations than a game normally does.

On the other hand, the stream chat loves watching races, and if it's a close, exciting race, then it can make an entertaining run even more entertaining.

tl;dr: Races are good, but only if the players are evenly matched and there aren't too many of them.

Looks like I need to make the games topic soon.

Tigger77

2011-06-19 11:57:02 am

I survived MIKE-Fest 1

I like races

sinister1

2011-06-19 12:06:57 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from mikwuyma:

Lots of good points on races, though I think the "raced quick" comment wasn't really something to be taken too seriously, but since people are responding, I guess I will too.

I think races are good, but only if they're close, and there aren't too many of them. We don't want the entire marathon to be races, because like LL and Shadowwraith said, the commentary is mostly eaten up by commentating on the race. They also don't really get any more donations than a game normally does.

On the other hand, the stream chat loves watching races, and if it's a close, exciting race, then it can make an entertaining run even more entertaining.

tl;dr: Races are good, but only if the players are evenly matched and there aren't too many of them.

Looks like I need to make the games topic soon.

Yeah, I was half kidding about AG Raced Quick, but really just making a comment on how many people were interested in racing games this year compared to past marathons. I am just as guilty of this racing saturation as I am planning on racing 2 games Tongue

That being said, I agree with Mike and a few others. Players need to be evenly matched or the game has to be short enough to compensate, no one likes a blowout. We have had some awesome races in past marathons and we do not want to miss out/over do it.

[quote="mikwuyma"]Lots of good points on races, though I think the "raced quick" comment wasn't really something to be taken too seriously, but since people are responding, I guess I will too.

I think races are good, but only if they're close, and there aren't too many of them. We don't want the entire marathon to be races, because like LL and Shadowwraith said, the commentary is mostly eaten up by commentating on the race. They also don't really get any more donations than a game normally does.

On the other hand, the stream chat loves watching races, and if it's a close, exciting race, then it can make an entertaining run even more entertaining.

tl;dr: Races are good, but only if the players are evenly matched and there aren't too many of them.

Looks like I need to make the games topic soon.[/quote]
Yeah, I was half kidding about AG Raced Quick, but really just making a comment on how many people were interested in racing games this year compared to past marathons. I am just as guilty of this racing saturation as I am planning on racing 2 games :P

That being said, I agree with Mike and a few others.  Players need to be evenly matched or the game has to be short enough to compensate, no one likes a blowout. We have had some awesome races in past marathons and we do not want to miss out/over do it.

Sonikkustar

2011-06-21 12:17:06 am

The Great Farming Empire

Quote from mikwuyma:

I will go over games later, but I will say one thing: unlike last year, I can't give everyone a game.

I just read over this part. I'll try to track down copies of the games I'll do. Its a good thing I read over this part. >_>

ZenicReverie

2011-06-21 12:58:04 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from Sonikkustar:

Quote from mikwuyma:

I will go over games later, but I will say one thing: unlike last year, I can't give everyone a game.

I just read over this part. I'll try to track down copies of the games I'll do. Its a good thing I read over this part. >_>

I think he meant that not everyone that comes will be able to run a game live for the marathon since so many more people are coming.

pevergreen

2011-06-21 02:26:45 am

Viewers perspective on commentary from AGDQ. I'm working my way through, and even this early I've noticed that there should be more of a structured organisation of who can talk during the run. Aware this has been mentioned before.

Couple times the runner has attempted to say something but has been cut off by a couch person, a background person or the laptop user.

Then sometimes runner will be explaining something, laptop user will cut them off to respond to something unimportant in chat.

imo: Runner has the highest priority, they should be to say if they need the room quiet-ish for most of the mod. After that comes the person announcing donations and comments, followed by the couch commentators. People in the background are obviously at the end of the food chain.

It doesn't look good when the runner asks for serious time and the person on the laptop is responding to chat so loudly no one could hear him asking for serious time.

Then when someone is trying to announce donations and people in the background talking about nothing related make it impossible to hear them.

Just view so far of this years.

Viewers perspective on commentary from AGDQ. I'm working my way through, and even this early I've noticed that there should be more of a structured organisation of who can talk during the run. Aware this has been mentioned before.

Couple times the runner has attempted to say something but has been cut off by a couch person, a background person or the laptop user.

Then sometimes runner will be explaining something, laptop user will cut them off to respond to something unimportant in chat.

imo: Runner has the highest priority, they should be to say if they need the room quiet-ish for most of the mod. After that comes the person announcing donations and comments, followed by the couch commentators. People in the background are obviously at the end of the food chain.

It doesn't look good when the runner asks for serious time and the person on the laptop is responding to chat so loudly no one could hear him asking for serious time.

Then when someone is trying to announce donations and people in the background talking about nothing related make it impossible to hear them.

Just view so far of this years.

ShadowWraith

Edit history:

ShadowWraith: 2011-06-21 03:12:34 am

2011-06-21 03:10:34 am

.

Thank you for reiterating something that was stated repeatedly in two different threads before this one. Something so painfully obvious to anyone with more observation capability than a roasted walnut that it should not have been mentioned in the first place, let alone in three different threads. Something that has already been addressed by people who should not have had to address it in the first place because it should not have been brought up in the first place because stating the obvious is stupid.

Kiyura

2011-06-21 08:14:20 am

Wiiaboo

Quote from ShadowWraith:

Thank you for reiterating something that was stated repeatedly in two different threads before this one. Something so painfully obvious to anyone with more observation capability than a roasted walnut that it should not have been mentioned in the first place, let alone in three different threads. Something that has already been addressed by people who should not have had to address it in the first place because it should not have been brought up in the first place because stating the obvious is stupid.

Whoa dude, simmer down there...

I actually agree with pevergreen on this count, and I think there should be a much clearer organization and enforcement. Also, this is not obvious to everyone, and the way that I've heard things going we will simply be going with the exact same system in this next marathon, which I find a little worrying. I know that not everyone will agree with me here, but I think at best we would have pre-designated commentators.