Planning run for Landstalker (sega genesis)

2015-01-21 01:13:09 pm

Quote from Vayarda:

Hi ars4326,

I examined this possibility about the poison when I runned the game. The concern is not the number of Eke Eke, but the timer for poisoned condition. Indeed, after 5-10s~, the poison disappears. However, this strat is maybe possible in a TAS, because when you attack with Ryle, the poison timer stops until Ryle moves. If the same strat for the Gold Statue. If Ryle attacks+moves, the poison timer maybe doesn't move and you strat could be possible. But the timing is too short in a speedrun. Good luck for your TAS thumbsup

Ah, I see. So poison status has a time counter of around 300-600 frames? Hmm...Ryle/Nigel can hop, with an attack, about every 24 frames while on level ground, so frame-precise strikes might be able to pull something off.

It's intriguing! I've already managed to pull off a couple of things which I didn't think possible, going into this. I'd love to look into it more, down the road.

Appreciate the support!

Quote from RatFunk:

ah yea theres actually a lot wrong with the nico nico tas and so much improvable for it, manitouX of youtube(link above) has some hidden videos and i myself have soem unrealesed tas strats, i would like to know what you use to record the tas so i could do it right for statueless, and yea that poison wont last long enough and theres a closer spot to get poisoned anyway which still dont make it.

Absolutely agree. I didn't think the niconico TAS was very unoptimized until I started on a run, myself. Even on the 100% branch, I saved about 10 seconds while in the Swamp Shrine, alone.

I'm currently using BizHawk 1.7.1 to record the TAS (I LOVE the rewind feature on it!). Also, here's a link to the tasvideos thread which contains a couple of WIPs a friend of mine uploaded to YouTube for me (feel free to compare the strats you guys have, also):

http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=399346#399346

Man...I'd still love to experiment with that strat and see if it's possible to make it to the second set of trees in time. That would save a TON of time over the any%.

[quote="Vayarda"]Hi ars4326,

I examined this possibility about the poison when I runned the game. The concern is not the number of Eke Eke, but the timer for poisoned condition. Indeed, after 5-10s~, the poison disappears. However, this strat is maybe possible in a TAS, because when you attack with Ryle, the poison timer stops until Ryle moves. If the same strat for the Gold Statue. If Ryle attacks+moves, the poison timer maybe doesn't move and you strat could be possible. But the timing is too short in a speedrun. Good luck for your TAS :thumbsup:[/quote]
Ah, I see.  So poison status has a time counter of around 300-600 frames?   Hmm...Ryle/Nigel can hop, with an attack, about every 24 frames while on level ground, so frame-precise strikes might be able to pull something off.

It's intriguing!  I've already managed to pull off a couple of things which I didn't think possible, going into this.  I'd love to look into it more, down the road.

Appreciate the support!

[quote="RatFunk"]ah yea theres actually a lot wrong with the nico nico tas and so much improvable for it, manitouX of youtube(link above) has some hidden videos and i myself have soem unrealesed tas strats, i would like to know what you use to record the tas so i could do it right for statueless, and yea that poison wont last long enough and theres a closer spot to get poisoned anyway which still dont make it.[/quote]
Absolutely agree.  I didn't think the niconico TAS was very unoptimized until I started on a run, myself.  Even on the 100% branch, I saved about 10 seconds while in the Swamp Shrine, alone.

I'm currently using BizHawk 1.7.1 to record the TAS (I LOVE the rewind feature on it!).  Also, here's a link to the tasvideos thread which contains a couple of WIPs a friend of mine uploaded to YouTube for me (feel free to compare the strats you guys have, also):

http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=399346#399346

Man...I'd still love to experiment with that strat and see if it's possible to make it to the second set of trees in time.  That would save a TON of time over the any%.

RatFunk

Edit history:

RatFunk: 2015-01-22 04:27:08 pm

RatFunk: 2015-01-22 04:20:51 pm

2015-01-22 04:19:02 pm

well heres 2 that pertain to near the end for you , manitou discovered that dying by poison durign a cutscene gives control bakc to the player, its big use to some amusement is the cutscene with the duke and the princess near the end if u die from poison with it you can exit early and as a side effect have friday remain out until u die, theres also the rng ball gate skip avoiding use of yet another key in the large room with the ball toss lower section. as well as the newer skips found within the last years.and im glad you subscribe the the biggest benefit of 100% the lifestock. however as a note u can save a few frames by entering and exiting sections differently. say u start on a bottom side of a transition and would want to be on the top on the other side u can spend a few frames going slightly up to be on the top section fully next area, its something minor i do now and then and i think is hardly noticed. and as for the poison~golden statue theory i may have to test more on that interesting thought.and the icesword can sometimes score double hits with the whirlwind and then the sword sometimes if u can work that out it would decimate .oh and congrats on the fire boots one i save stated trying that but it always bounced wrong glad to see it can be done.

well heres 2 that pertain to near the end for you , manitou discovered that dying by poison durign a cutscene gives control bakc to the player, its big use to some amusement is the cutscene with the duke and the princess near the end if u die from poison with it you can exit early and as a side effect have friday remain out until u die, theres also the rng ball gate skip avoiding use of yet another key in the large room with the ball toss lower section. as well as the newer skips found within the last years.and im glad you subscribe the the biggest benefit of 100% the lifestock. however as a note u can save a few frames by entering and exiting sections differently. say u start on a bottom side of a transition and would want to be on the top on the other side u can spend a few frames going slightly up to be on the top section fully next area, its something minor i do now and then and i think is hardly noticed. and as for the poison~golden statue theory i may have to test more on that interesting thought.and the icesword can sometimes score double hits with the whirlwind and then the sword sometimes if u can work that out it would decimate  .oh and congrats on the fire boots one i save stated trying that but it always bounced wrong glad to see it can be done.

ars4326

2015-01-22 06:34:25 pm

Nice details, RatFunk! The whole dying by poison during a cutscene trick has a lot of potential for entertainment, lol (having Friday remaining out would be worth it, alone).

Which dungeon is the rng ball gate skip located in? Being able to save another key for somewhere would be great, later on in the game. I think I've also been doing the frame transition savings trick by positioning Nigel to a certain position, at the tops of staircases, so he'll be at a closer position on the next floor.

I was stoked on discovering that you can enter the Mountain Dungeon early! Those Axe Magic trees, deceptively, have an object height of 4 (iron gates have 3, Nigel has 2, Slimes/bushes have 1, etc.). I figured with enough fancy manipulation, I could lure the town guard over and throw the dog on his head, creating the height of 3 that I needed to breach the trees and make my way into the dungeon.

RatFunk

2015-01-22 08:08:19 pm

yea it also works on screen transitions (which u dont seem to be using) and yea i have know about the 4 height u cna stand on one of them near mirs tower :p , as far as ball skip goes its the final dungeon. like i said i tried it in real time to no successes before.

Taloof

2015-01-26 09:09:17 am

I use the transition into rooms myself. There are many places where it is vital for my setup as it just works out better when I enter from that position.

1) Swampshrine - The room with the 4 green mushrooms that spawn a switch in the middle of the room. If I transit to the next room on the right side I can jump over the 2 balllines, grab the box, jump up the stairs and throw it onto the northern button without getting hit. (If I enter the room on the left transitionpart I get hit and almost always lose time.)
2) Tower of Mir (?) - I had a perfect Mir fight this weekend. (need to look for the part in my VOD) I entered Mir's room on the leftern part of the transition and I mash jump attack while pressing forward through his text. I hit him 2 times while he was backing up and then he levitated to my right, which I kinda predicted and could lock him in position with a couple of slashes. Fight was over. If that would have been a run and no casual playthrough that fight could have saved me at least 20-30 seconds.
3) Not really a transition thing but when you fight Miro the 2nd time in the final dungeon I tend to get less hit by him when I jump down the ledge more to the left.

I use the transition into rooms myself. There are many places where it is vital for my setup as it just works out better when I enter from that position.

1) Swampshrine - The room with the 4 green mushrooms that spawn a switch in the middle of the room. If I transit to the next room on the right side I can jump over the 2 balllines, grab the box, jump up the stairs and throw it onto the northern button without getting hit. (If I enter the room on the left transitionpart I get hit and almost always lose time.)
2) Tower of Mir (?) - I had a perfect Mir fight this weekend. (need to look for the part in my VOD) I entered Mir's room on the leftern part of the transition and I mash jump attack while pressing forward through his text. I hit him 2 times while he was backing up and then he levitated to my right, which I kinda predicted and could lock him in position with a couple of slashes. Fight was over. If that would have been a run and no casual playthrough that fight could have saved me at least 20-30 seconds.
3) Not really a transition thing but when you fight Miro the 2nd time in the final dungeon I tend to get less hit by him when I jump down the ledge more to the left.

RatFunk

2015-09-16 06:14:45 pm

Since its been a while lets sum up the recent events of the game. 1. the 100% tas finished 2. the invisible pots were found to no use. and 3. runs have died down. most have taken to the new Eng category which skips less dungeons and has the ability for the viewer to follow along. no one cares about any% for a good reason 10% to strong. low% seems to be caught up on a efficient way to get zack. and for those who don't know, the game is very trick heavy lots of execution and manipulation, a fun run just based on all the silly things you do and can do with the knowledge, even more so in the statueless catagory. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXO-P88MwHMwIxVE47zxq3g/videos -manitou x and a good grouping of skips and fun.