Phantasy Star Online Episode 1 + 2

LeFrozer

Edit history:

LeFrozer: 2013-11-03 02:03:26 pm

LeFrozer: 2013-11-03 02:02:47 pm

LeFrozer: 2013-11-03 01:52:26 pm

LeFrozer: 2013-11-03 01:40:16 pm

2013-10-02 08:29:48 am

After several years of silence, I think it's about time to talk about a wonderful online game called Phantasy Star Online. Eventhough it's an "online" game for Gamecube/Xbox, it has an offline mode, which is speedrunnable.

This game has several categories:

Episode 1

any%: Beat the game on normal difficulty with a new character. Classes are split in this category (ex. any% Force, any% Hunter) since they're played completely different. No glitches allowed!
any% glitched: Beat the game on normal difficulty with a new character. (almost) everything is allowed!
All Missions: Do all Hunter's Guild missions and finish the game. No glitches allowed!
All difficulties:Beat the game on all difficulties!
100%: Beat the game and finish all missions on every difficulty!

Episode 2

any%: Beat the game on normal difficulty with a new character. Classes are NOT split in this category. No glitches allowed!
any% glitched: Beat the game on normal difficulty with a new character. (almost) everything is allowed!

[b]What's good to know (not finished yet):[/u]
- Timing starts by making a new character and ends after entering the portal (when the screen faded away). The IGT (In-Game Time) starts right, as you press create or recreate.
- the reason, why any% and glitched are split into seperate categories is because of the famous "weapon stacking" glitch. You can watch it here:

What we actually need:

-The world record timings for each category! PM me or post it with a VoD.

Thread title:

After several years of silence, I think it's about time to talk about a wonderful online game called Phantasy Star Online. Eventhough it's an "[i]online[/i]" game for Gamecube/Xbox, it has an offline mode, which is speedrunnable.

This game has several categories:

[hidden]

[b][color="blue"] Episode 1[/color][/b]

[b]any%:[/b] Beat the game on normal difficulty with a new character. Classes are split in this category (ex. any% Force, any% Hunter) since they're played completely different. No glitches allowed!
[b]any% glitched:[/b] Beat the game on normal difficulty with a new character. (almost) everything is allowed!
[b]All Missions:[/b] Do all Hunter's Guild missions and finish the game. No glitches allowed! 
[b]All difficulties:[/b]Beat the game on all difficulties!
[b]100%[/b]: Beat the game and finish all missions on every difficulty!

[b][color="red"] Episode 2[/color][/b]

[b]any%:[/b] Beat the game on normal difficulty with a new character. Classes are NOT split in this category. No glitches allowed!
[b]any% glitched:[/b] Beat the game on normal difficulty with a new character. (almost) everything is allowed!

[b]What's good to know (not finished yet):[/u]
- Timing starts by making a new character and ends after entering the portal (when the screen faded away). The IGT (In-Game Time) starts right, as you press create or recreate.
- the reason, why any% and glitched are split into seperate categories is because of the famous "weapon stacking" glitch. You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfxxfaxi--A

[b]What we actually need:[/b]

-The world record timings for each category! PM me or post it with a VoD.

[/hidden]

MAS8705

2013-10-02 09:41:05 am

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

Hello LeFrozer and Welcome to Speed Demos Archive! We hope you enjoy your stay. Smiley

You are correct about one thing: PSO is indeed "speedrunnable" since it has two runs on the site already: http://speeddemosarchive.com/PhantasyStarOnline.html

Granted though this is only for "Force" and "Hunter" while "Ranger" has not been done yet. Technically, race doesn't matter, but class does. You can take what you want from these runs to help you for planning for Episode 1, but for Episode 2, no one has done that one yet.

Other than that, if you have any questions or like to post your progress, go right ahead. Best of luck on your runs.

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2013-10-02 10:04:59 am

2013-10-02 10:04:09 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

EDIT: Never mind.

LeFrozer

2013-10-02 12:50:07 pm

Quote from MAS8705:

Hello LeFrozer and Welcome to Speed Demos Archive! We hope you enjoy your stay. Smiley

You are correct about one thing: PSO is indeed "speedrunnable" since it has two runs on the site already: http://speeddemosarchive.com/PhantasyStarOnline.html

Granted though this is only for "Force" and "Hunter" while "Ranger" has not been done yet. Technically, race doesn't matter, but class does. You can take what you want from these runs to help you for planning for Episode 1, but for Episode 2, no one has done that one yet.

Other than that, if you have any questions or like to post your progress, go right ahead. Best of luck on your runs.

Thank you! What a warm welcome I'm already recieving!

I've watched some of those segments and I've noticed the following:

Hunters are pretty straight forward. Just use a HUcast and go though the game. Simple as it gets.

However, Forces have trouble at surviving Dark Falz, since he hoes exactly 130 damage with his Divine/Heaven's Punishment (the laser he shoots to the top). To achieve that, you need the following items for sure:

- any 4 slot frame (frame,giga frame, soul frame)
- 4 Digger/HP

This would be enough, if you plan to hit level 16, before going to Dark Falz. (You would have 132 HP with this setup). However, it would be faster, if you get 2 HP materials and fight Falz at level 15. This would be very unsafe for a single segment run.

I guess, a Ranger run would be a the longest of them since their damage output is quite low and they are also dependant on HP units. I would recommend going for a RAcast (highest ATP and HP of all rangers) or a RAcaseal (higher ATA and almost 2x DFP than their male counterpart). Both of those classes need at least a two slot armor and at least 2 Digger/HPs at level 15 (If you get two HP materials, you only need 1 Digger/HP). Since no one has done it (or at least I haven't heard of) I guess I'm going to try it a bit and getting some results for it.

As for Episode 2, I guess the core problem will be the final area and the final boss, which is much harder than episode one, I guess grinding will be mandatory for sure. But I'll find it out sooner or later.

[quote="MAS8705"]Hello LeFrozer and Welcome to Speed Demos Archive!  We hope you enjoy your stay. :)

You are correct about one thing: PSO is indeed "speedrunnable" since it has two runs on the site already: http://speeddemosarchive.com/PhantasyStarOnline.html

Granted though this is only for "Force" and "Hunter" while "Ranger" has not been done yet.  Technically, race doesn't matter, but class does.  You can take what you want from these runs to help you for planning for Episode 1, but for Episode 2, no one has done that one yet.

Other than that, if you have any questions or like to post your progress, go right ahead.  Best of luck on your runs.[/quote]

Thank you! What a warm welcome I'm already recieving!

I've watched some of those segments and I've noticed the following:

Hunters are pretty straight forward. Just use a HUcast and go though the game. Simple as it gets.

However, Forces have trouble at surviving Dark Falz, since he hoes exactly 130 damage with his Divine/Heaven's Punishment (the laser he shoots to the top). To achieve that, you need the following items for sure:

- any 4 slot frame (frame,giga frame, soul frame)
- 4 Digger/HP

This would be enough, if you plan to hit level 16, before going to Dark Falz. (You would have 132 HP with this setup). However, it would be faster, if you get 2 HP materials and fight Falz at level 15. This would be very unsafe for a single segment run.

I guess, a Ranger run would be a the longest of them since their damage output is quite low and they are also dependant on HP units. I would recommend going for a RAcast (highest ATP and HP of all rangers) or a RAcaseal (higher ATA and almost 2x DFP than their male counterpart). Both of those classes need at least a two slot armor and at least 2 Digger/HPs at level 15 (If you get two HP materials, you only need 1 Digger/HP). Since no one has done it (or at least I haven't heard of) I guess I'm going to try it a bit and getting some results for it.

As for Episode 2, I guess the core problem will be the final area and the final boss, which is much harder than episode one, I guess grinding will be mandatory for sure. But I'll find it out sooner or later.

AdamAK

2013-10-03 08:29:30 am

Totally rad

It's possible to clear Episode 2 with a new character, without grinding. It's also absurdly hard, because of Gal Da Val and Seabed (and in particular Olga Flow) one shotting you all the time.

I'd love to do a single segment any% run (without weapon stacking), but the high degree of randomness involved in getting optimal area patterns makes it nasty to run.

Question: Are PSO and PSO+ to be regarded as entirely separate games? For 100% runs, I would say so, but for any% without weapon stacking, both are equivalent, right?

LeFrozer

2013-10-03 10:24:39 am

Well there is literally no difference for the normal and the Plus version. Since the only difference is basically some new offline quests and East / West tower for Episode 2. Also Challenge Mode on Ep.2 will be available. I guess in speedrun aspects, there ism't a difference.except for different load times (?).

@EP.2: Is there any recorded run of it?

LeFrozer

Edit history:

LeFrozer: 2013-10-08 09:54:23 am

LeFrozer: 2013-10-08 09:54:22 am

2013-10-08 09:53:05 am

Well, I've been searching for Ep.2 runs. Sadly, I couldn't find any completed run, just attempts. I also couldn't try it by on GC by myself (except on PSO BB, but it felt totally different). I guess it's way harder than the counterpart.. But I guess, a HUcast or RAcast would be the best choice.

EDIT: I'm allowed to double post, right?

TrUShade

2013-10-08 10:52:12 am

The TrUest of Shades

Well the only different between normal and plus would be in a run I do myself which is All the Quests. as Plus has additional quests, but besides that nothing is really different.

And for Ep.2 runs you could search up on Withhelde's twitch page as she has a few runs done but only one completed on Ep. 2. And she runs with a HUcast but have seen her run with RAcast as well.

Manocheese

2013-10-08 09:20:36 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

IIRC, the item glitches in the first post are fixed in Plus.

AdamAK

2013-10-09 06:19:10 am

Totally rad

TrUShade, since you do ALl Missions runs, would you happen to know if it's (on average) faster to do missions first and then clear the area normally, or the other way around? I'm fairly certain it's faster to clear Forest first and then start doing the missions at lvl 4 or so, for instance, as the bosses just give such a big experience boost and don't take long to kill. The only exception I can think of is De Rol Le, and perhaps the bosses when on Ultimate.

TrUShade

2013-10-10 02:29:26 am

The TrUest of Shades

Quote from AdamAK:

TrUShade, since you do ALl Missions runs, would you happen to know if it's (on average) faster to do missions first and then clear the area normally, or the other way around? I'm fairly certain it's faster to clear Forest first and then start doing the missions at lvl 4 or so, for instance, as the bosses just give such a big experience boost and don't take long to kill. The only exception I can think of is De Rol Le, and perhaps the bosses when on Ultimate.

Well for the forest, most of the missions you get sent on you are with an ally so I mean you could run through the forest first and then do quests (something i haven't tested yet) but it seems no matter what, the caves is the longest part of the run. For some reason it is just slow.

But for the run i did, i basically did all the quests and then ran through the level. It was the first thing that came to mind when doing basic routing.

saintmillion

Edit history:

saintmillion: 2013-10-16 08:37:29 pm

saintmillion: 2013-10-16 08:34:42 pm

saintmillion: 2013-10-16 08:33:15 pm

saintmillion: 2013-10-16 08:31:56 pm

saintmillion: 2013-10-16 08:30:31 pm

saintmillion: 2013-10-16 08:30:17 pm

saintmillion: 2013-10-16 08:29:34 pm

2013-10-16 08:28:08 pm

station

I was literally just desperately searching for a way to do a single segment run of this game, the best game, and found a 2008 video on youtube about how to weapon stack. Then I searched here and there's a Shaeden video that does it with better menu macro. sick BCWarrior

I'm running this now and am optimizing the intro a little bit. I'm not interested in non-glitched run just yet, will have to find time for it. Here's my setup for the run right now after a couple days of testing:

RAcast
Drop everything, pick up mag and monomates after weapon stacking.
Go to options and change the cursor position settings to "don't save" or whatever it's called
Meseta dupe to 70k+ with setup/inputs from this video: great menu navigation, mine was longer and more complicated
Buy Rifle and equip
Stack Saber +2s until 20+ sabers are equipped. Re-equip Rifle if it was unequipped.
Save at least 2 inventory slots for healing items collected along the way.

Rifle is the best weapon for this run for two reason: massive range that covers the majority of any room in the game, as well as great accuracy. Backed up the rifle with the Saber +2's for damage (which have more ATP), and the rifle is a beast.

Feed your mag your spare monomates/sols/dimates/trimates throughout the run to have at least one photon blast to evade something later on, perhaps? I've been trying 1200-1500 atp in the weapon stack and it holds up pretty well. It seems the only other thing needed to run this game efficiently is knowing the patterns of the random maps you get in the run. This website should help anyone running through the normal game: http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewtopsection&section=Maps&secver=1

I haven't gotten to ruins yet so I'm still testing this build out. Also I'm tired and have edited this terribly written post about 8 times now but I'll be back with more info!

I was literally just desperately searching for a way to do a single segment run of this game, the best game, and found a 2008 video on youtube about how to weapon stack. Then I searched here and there's a Shaeden video that does it with better menu macro. sick BCWarrior

I'm running this now and am optimizing the intro a little bit. I'm not interested in non-glitched run just yet, will have to find time for it. Here's my setup for the run right now after a couple days of testing:

RAcast
Drop everything, pick up mag and monomates after weapon stacking.
Go to options and change the cursor position settings to "don't save" or whatever it's called
Meseta dupe to 70k+ with setup/inputs from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfxxfaxi--A great menu navigation, mine was longer and more complicated
Buy Rifle and equip
Stack Saber +2s until 20+ sabers are equipped. Re-equip Rifle if it was unequipped.
Save at least 2 inventory slots for healing items collected along the way.

Rifle is the best weapon for this run for two reason: massive range that covers the majority of any room in the game, as well as great accuracy. Backed up the rifle with the Saber +2's for damage (which have more ATP), and the rifle is a beast.

Feed your mag your spare monomates/sols/dimates/trimates throughout the run to have at least one photon blast to evade something later on, perhaps? I've been trying 1200-1500 atp in the weapon stack and it holds up pretty well. It seems the only other thing needed to run this game efficiently is knowing the patterns of the random maps you get in the run. This website should help anyone running through the normal game: http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewtopsection&section=Maps&secver=1

I haven't gotten to ruins yet so I'm still testing this build out. Also I'm tired and have edited this terribly written post about 8 times now but I'll be back with more info!

TrUShade

2013-10-17 10:38:48 am

The TrUest of Shades

Quote from AdamAK:

TrUShade, since you do ALl Missions runs, would you happen to know if it's (on average) faster to do missions first and then clear the area normally, or the other way around? I'm fairly certain it's faster to clear Forest first and then start doing the missions at lvl 4 or so, for instance, as the bosses just give such a big experience boost and don't take long to kill. The only exception I can think of is De Rol Le, and perhaps the bosses when on Ultimate.

Also now Adam, I have tested both ways for the forest. And I have got them down to around an 1hour for both ways, but killing the dragon after the quests is still slightly faster. I still have to test some of the stuff.

AdamAK

2013-10-18 07:43:45 am

Totally rad

I messed around with it a bit yesterday, and I have the impression that doing Forest missions at a slightly higher level doesn't speed things up much. The slowness of the missions gives extra time to raise a MAG, which makes later combat trivial, even if the Exp isn't that great. On the other hand, doing Forest first lets you manipulate the pattern until you get the optimal one (which can be completed in <13 min easily). Still not 100% decided on what to do, but I think missions first is actually better.

saintmillion

Edit history:

saintmillion: 2013-10-18 10:44:00 am

saintmillion: 2013-10-18 10:42:50 am

saintmillion: 2013-10-18 10:41:24 am

2013-10-18 10:39:54 am

station

Update on doing glitched any% (no missions):

I finished a speedy casual test run and downed falz/exited Epilogue teleporter at 1:23 IGT. Had a few deaths and took my time with figuring out which random map the game had generated for me. Here are some thoughts:

- No need to take any armor/frame/barriers. For the most part you can avoid being hit by anything through the run. Nothing one-shotted me the entire time (two shotted at Ruins).
- Take a Shot (green shotgun weapon) in the ruins the moment it drops. Alternate between Rifle and Shot from room to room. One Heavy Shot attack will clear most rooms. If not, doing 1 Heavy and then 1 light will do the job.
- Start with about 1400-1550 ATP when finishing weapon stacking. Doing about 240+ damager per Light attack will ensure one-shotting all smaller/medium enemies until ruins, shaving many seconds off of a run as opposed to shooting twice per enemy.
- Mag leveling is pointless as far as I can tell, will look into this again later
- Dark Falz is a very fast fight (<30 seconds). Phase 2 Falz doesn't live long enough to do Heaven's Punisher AOE.
- Still need to memorize and develop mental strats for recognizing the random maps. I feel using map pictures as reference is an unfair outside advantage. It's basically tool assisted. I plan on creating a list of "if room x is this, then go to y" for each area and make sure it applies to each map variation. But yeah, the goal here is to never use a map reference in a RTA.

Gonna do more runs this weekend. Can't stream but i'm keeping notes. There should also be definitive categories for this game, what with talking about any%, 100%, glitchless, all missions. What would 100% be exactly?

Update on doing glitched any% (no missions):

I finished a speedy casual test run and downed falz/exited Epilogue teleporter at 1:23 IGT. Had a few deaths and took my time with figuring out which random map the game had generated for me. Here are some thoughts:

- No need to take any armor/frame/barriers. For the most part you can avoid being hit by anything through the run. Nothing one-shotted me the entire time (two shotted at Ruins).
- Take a Shot (green shotgun weapon) in the ruins the moment it drops. Alternate between Rifle and Shot from room to room. One Heavy Shot attack will clear most rooms. If not, doing 1 Heavy and then 1 light will do the job.
- Start with about 1400-1550 ATP when finishing weapon stacking. Doing about 240+ damager per Light attack will ensure one-shotting all smaller/medium enemies until ruins, shaving many seconds off of a run as opposed to shooting twice per enemy.
- Mag leveling is pointless as far as I can tell, will look into this again later
- Dark Falz is a very fast fight (<30 seconds). Phase 2 Falz doesn't live long enough to do Heaven's Punisher AOE.
- Still need to memorize and develop mental strats for recognizing the random maps. I feel using map pictures as reference is an unfair outside advantage. It's basically tool assisted. I plan on creating a list of "if room x is this, then go to y" for each area and make sure it applies to each map variation. But yeah, the goal here is to never use a map reference in a RTA.

Gonna do more runs this weekend. Can't stream but i'm keeping notes. There should also be definitive categories for this game, what with talking about any%, 100%, glitchless, all missions. What would 100% be exactly?

LeFrozer

2013-10-18 12:44:55 pm

100% would be all missions on each difficulty and beating the game on each diffculty.

I would also seperate every class in any% glitchless, since they play differenly and SDA already has seperated those runs. However, a glitched run should not be class-specific.

saintmillion

Edit history:

saintmillion: 2013-10-19 03:05:16 am

saintmillion: 2013-10-19 03:04:17 am

saintmillion: 2013-10-19 03:02:59 am

saintmillion: 2013-10-19 03:02:30 am

saintmillion: 2013-10-19 03:01:23 am

2013-10-19 02:59:54 am

station

100% sounds like a long run Shocked

Did more testing and finished another glitched any% run tonight. finished at 1:06 IGT

- Again, RAcast
- I was wrong on being Greenill, I think I originally picked Green section ID due to rifle/handgun drops? However this is completely irrelevant due to the fact that upgrading from Rifle to Sniper is a negligible boost to damage (maybe a boost of 15 damage while already doing 220 per light hit). The best section ID is actually Viridia due to having the highest possible Shotgun drop rate in the ruins at an average 1% per enemy (double most other section IDs), see: http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=452
- a quick RAcast Viridia name is simply "2"
- Nothing can one shot me, that I know of
- Healing items hard to come by for some reason, especially in ruins. but shouldn't be needed if played smart enough.
- Nothing one shots me
- Lining up rows of enemys to shoot through saves time, but only if lining them up/adjusting your firing position is convenient. Going out of your way to line up a row of enemies will take longer than killing one-by-one
- You can shoot De Rol Le's mask off during his swim next to the raft
- Current dragon strat: Shoot dragon to make him fall, when he gets up he will be in phase 2. Use the time that he is down to go to the left of the dragon to the end of the room. If you can manage to land a heavy hit after his Phase 2 roar, he will go down in one hit (assuming you started with about 1500 atp in weapon stacking) and the Pioneer 2 teleporter will be near you (still testing exact position to warp out right after the death cutscene)

Not much else to write down, everything else is pretty simple. Still trying to get an s-video cable so I can get my setup operational and start recording.

100% sounds like a long run :o

Did more testing and finished another glitched any% run tonight. finished at 1:06 IGT

- Again, RAcast
- I was wrong on being Greenill, I think I originally picked Green section ID due to rifle/handgun drops? However this is completely irrelevant due to the fact that upgrading from Rifle to Sniper is a negligible boost to damage (maybe a boost of 15 damage while already doing 220 per light hit). The best section ID is actually Viridia due to having the highest possible Shotgun drop rate in the ruins at an average 1% per enemy (double most other section IDs), see: http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=452
- a quick RAcast Viridia name is simply "2"
- Nothing can one shot me, that I know of
- Healing items hard to come by for some reason, especially in ruins. but shouldn't be needed if played smart enough.
- Nothing one shots me
- Lining up rows of enemys to shoot through saves time, but only if lining them up/adjusting your firing position is convenient. Going out of your way to line up a row of enemies will take longer than killing one-by-one
- You can shoot De Rol Le's mask off during his swim next to the raft
- Current dragon strat: Shoot dragon to make him fall, when he gets up he will be in phase 2. Use the time that he is down to go to the left of the dragon to the end of the room. If you can manage to land a heavy hit after his Phase 2 roar, he will go down in one hit (assuming you started with about 1500 atp in weapon stacking) and the Pioneer 2 teleporter will be near you (still testing exact position to warp out right after the death cutscene)

Not much else to write down, everything else is pretty simple. Still trying to get an s-video cable so I can get my setup operational and start recording.

saintmillion

Edit history:

saintmillion: 2013-10-19 05:31:11 pm

2013-10-19 05:29:21 pm

station

Hot tip from LeFrozer: you can actually use mechguns with the weapon stack by unequipping a saber then re-equipping. Not only does mechgun work but now all gun models appear on my character when they didn't before Cheesy

More notes on glitched any% are needed now! (sorry I know I'm kinda flooding the thread)

- Now that we know we can use mechguns, it's time to look at section ID's again: are there any section IDs that have a good shotgun AND machine gun drop rate?
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=452

After some more research, I see that Mechguns start appearing in the shops at Level 11 (either post-caves or post-mines) and should be checked up on once a boss is defeated. Of course though, it's RNG that it appears in the shop, just like drop RNG. (note that runs usually end at lvl 17-18)
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=929

So based on those facts, Viridia is still probably the best choice, shop for mechgun once, hope for drops. However, Redria is also viable due to having a near equal drop rate for shots and mechs at 0.5% - 0.6% per enemy. I think from now on I will try Redria and see how my drops look.

Hot tip from LeFrozer: you can actually use mechguns with the weapon stack by unequipping a saber then re-equipping. Not only does mechgun work but now all gun models appear on my character when they didn't before :D

More notes on glitched any% are needed now! (sorry I know I'm kinda flooding the thread)

- Now that we know we can use mechguns, it's time to look at section ID's again: are there any section IDs that have a good shotgun AND machine gun drop rate?
            http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=452

After some more research, I see that Mechguns start appearing in the shops at Level 11 (either post-caves or post-mines) and should be checked up on once a boss is defeated. Of course though, it's RNG that it appears in the shop, just like drop RNG. (note that runs usually end at lvl 17-18)
           http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=929

So based on those facts, Viridia is still probably the best choice, shop for mechgun once, hope for drops. However, Redria is also viable due to having a near equal drop rate for shots and mechs at 0.5% - 0.6% per enemy. I think from now on I will try Redria and see how my drops look.

LeFrozer

2013-10-21 03:34:04 am

To add more about the weapon stacking: As saint already mentioned, the issue with mechguns and shots has to do with equipping a ranged weapon. Ex.: You stack 20+ sabers by using this glitch. If you enter the map, you will see one saber with a huge light effect. If you try to equip a ranged weapon, it fails to load the weapon (and bullets, since it's a part of the weapon model) itself, but the attack animation is working as intended. Also, you do the damage to them. However mechs and shots are those weapons, which it multiple times / has multiple bullets and somehow, it fails to even shoot bullets (mechs does have the issue, shots sometimes work. By unequipping a saber, the game thinks you don't wear any weapon, which can be confirmed by using the quick-tab (you won't see any sabers on this menu. If you equip a ranged weapon, it does load the weapon texture and everything should be fine!

For those going to ultimate: RAmarls are probably the best choice, since they have accsess to Shifta/Deband/Jellen/Zalure, which will be mandatory for soloing ult on a low level.

To add more about the weapon stacking: As saint already mentioned, the issue with mechguns and shots has to do with equipping a ranged weapon. Ex.: You stack 20+ sabers by using this glitch. If you enter the map, you will see one saber with a huge light effect. If you try to equip a ranged weapon, it fails to load the weapon (and bullets, since it's a part of the weapon model) itself, but the attack animation is working as intended. Also, you do the damage to them. However mechs and shots are those weapons, which it multiple times / has multiple bullets and somehow, it fails to even shoot bullets (mechs does have the issue, shots sometimes work. By unequipping a saber, the game thinks you don't wear any weapon, which can be confirmed by using the quick-tab (you won't see any sabers on this menu. If you equip a ranged weapon, it does load the weapon texture and everything should be fine!

For those going to ultimate: RAmarls are probably the best choice, since they have accsess to Shifta/Deband/Jellen/Zalure, which will be mandatory for soloing ult on a low level.

AdamAK

2013-10-21 04:04:12 am

Totally rad

Shift and Deband can be accessed by raising a mag with Mylla & Youlla, so I don't think those spells are particularly important (especially since they don't do much at lower levels). Jellen and Zalure is also accessible by a HUmar. RAmarl's hp pool is rather dreadful, as is their ATP, so unless you do weapon stacking, I'm not sure how good of a class it would be.

I'm thinking about doing a few runs through the Forest on Ultimate when doing 100% runs, since it provide a much needed experience boost. As far as I can tell, characters should be around level 65 when reaching Ultimate. With a MAG whose stats are focused around DEX, Partisans would be the preferred weapon in a lot of areas, since you can combo groups of enemies without getting hit, as long as your own attacks land. As such, Bluefull may be a good option, since that ID is almost guaranteed to drop a Vjaya or a Gae Bolg when you need one.

I favour ATA over ATP, as ATP is useless when constantly missing (and constantly getting hit). I'm thinking it might be a good idea to raise two mags (if possible), one based on DEX and one more on ATP, so that one can go through the easier difficulties quickly, but still be able to handle Ultimate.

Shift and Deband can be accessed by raising a mag with Mylla & Youlla, so I don't think those spells are particularly important (especially since they don't do much at lower levels). Jellen and Zalure is also accessible by a HUmar. RAmarl's hp pool is rather dreadful, as is their ATP, so unless you do weapon stacking, I'm not sure how good of a class it would be.

I'm thinking about doing a few runs through the Forest on Ultimate when doing 100% runs, since it provide a much needed experience boost. As far as I can tell, characters should be around level 65 when reaching Ultimate. With a MAG whose stats are focused around DEX, Partisans would be the preferred weapon in a lot of areas, since you can combo groups of enemies without getting hit, as long as your own attacks land. As such, Bluefull may be a good option, since that ID is almost guaranteed to drop a Vjaya or a Gae Bolg when you need one.

I favour ATA over ATP, as ATP is useless when constantly missing (and constantly getting hit). I'm thinking it might be a good idea to raise two mags (if possible), one based on DEX and one more on ATP, so that one can go through the easier difficulties quickly, but still be able to handle Ultimate.

LeFrozer

2013-10-21 06:43:50 am

You're right, RAmarls have HP issues, like any female character. And I've completely forgot about HUmar and their accsess to Jellen/Zalure.

However, the HP Stat will always be an issue (less in 100%, more in all difficulties). The maximum HP you need for Dark Falz is 697. According to PSO world, his highest damage attack does exactly 696 Damage and is not affected by buffs/debuffs.

Let's say, you will be around 75-ish when you could fight Falz. With HUmars base stats, it would be around 520ish HP. To get those 170+ you would need:

- 4 Dragon/HP = 160 through units
- and plenty of HP mats

Getting those things are pretty hard so a run would be very RNG dependant (kinda like Force any%).

The easiest (and only?) solution will be grinding/farming, which takes a long time of a run.
Or just go for a HUcast. However, you would trade survivability for a bit more damage (on Ult) and accuracy, also, you would only need those HP Units.

saintmillion

Edit history:

saintmillion: 2013-10-21 09:39:16 am

saintmillion: 2013-10-21 09:37:47 am

2013-10-21 09:35:55 am

station

Quote from LeFrozer:

You're right, RAmarls have HP issues, like any female character. And I've completely forgot about HUmar and their accsess to Jellen/Zalure.

However, the HP Stat will always be an issue (less in 100%, more in all difficulties). The maximum HP you need for Dark Falz is 697. According to PSO world, his highest damage attack does exactly 696 Damage and is not affected by buffs/debuffs.

Let's say, you will be around 75-ish when you could fight Falz. With HUmars base stats, it would be around 520ish HP. To get those 170+ you would need:

- 4 Dragon/HP = 160 through units
- and plenty of HP mats

Getting those things are pretty hard so a run would be very RNG dependant (kinda like Force any%).

The easiest (and only?) solution will be grinding/farming, which takes a long time of a run.
Or just go for a HUcast. However, you would trade survivability for a bit more damage (on Ult) and accuracy, also, you would only need those HP Units.

The whole issue with HP just reminded me of a "trick" I've heard of/attempted to try a long time ago in Blue Burst: Resta Dodging. Anyone been successful or tried this strat? Basically you time a resta to the point where the same moment you gain health is the same moment you get hit, and you are not hit. I also read somewhere that if you time a resta perfectly when De Rol Le aims a laser beam, it doesn't target you and shoots off randomly.

However, I've also read Resta Dodging is a bit of a myth and just negates damage taken from a hit and restores it instantly. I could swear though that I had used this against final form Falz's Grants a number of times back when I played Blue Burst actively. A perfectly timed Resta when Grants hit would not knock me down or do damage. Needs testing, I will see if I can check it out.

This trick, among other little exploits (such as shooting enemies from door frames before their AI pathing can sense you) can possibly go into the category of glitches/exploits. If these do become utilized in some way, or more tricks of the like are discovered, perhaps there should be another sub-category of "Any% No Menu Glitch" or "All Difficulties NMG". Just like OoT has "No WW". Then there could be simply "Glitchless" where none of these tricks would be applied.

Just a thought. Will try to test the Resta Dodge out sometime this week. Would solve the HP issue potentially.
Also, once I get my capture working and get a solid any% run (glitched), I'm definitely going to look into an All difficulties run and try to contribute more

[quote="LeFrozer"]You're right, RAmarls have HP issues, like any female character. And I've completely forgot about HUmar and their accsess to Jellen/Zalure.

However, the HP Stat will always be an issue (less in 100%, more in all difficulties). The maximum HP you need for Dark Falz is 697. According to PSO world, his highest damage attack does exactly 696 Damage and is not affected by buffs/debuffs.

Let's say, you will be around 75-ish when you could fight Falz. With HUmars base stats, it would be around 520ish HP. To get those 170+ you would need:

- 4 Dragon/HP = 160 through units
- and plenty of HP mats

Getting those things are pretty hard so a run would be very RNG dependant (kinda like Force any%).

The easiest (and only?) solution will be grinding/farming, which takes a long time of a run.
Or just go for a HUcast. However, you would trade survivability for a bit more damage (on Ult) and accuracy, also, you would only need those HP Units.

[/quote]
The whole issue with HP just reminded me of a "trick" I've heard of/attempted to try a long time ago in Blue Burst: Resta Dodging. Anyone been successful or tried this strat? Basically you time a resta to the point where the same moment you gain health is the same moment you get hit, and you are not hit. I also read somewhere that if you time a resta perfectly when De Rol Le aims a laser beam, it doesn't target you and shoots off randomly.

However, I've also read Resta Dodging is a bit of a myth and just negates damage taken from a hit and restores it instantly. I could swear though that I had used this against final form Falz's Grants a number of times back when I played Blue Burst actively. A perfectly timed Resta when Grants hit would not knock me down or do damage. Needs testing, I will see if I can check it out.

This trick, among other little exploits (such as shooting enemies from door frames before their AI pathing can sense you) can possibly go into the category of glitches/exploits. If these do become utilized in some way, or more tricks of the like are discovered, perhaps there should be another sub-category of "Any% No Menu Glitch" or "All Difficulties NMG". Just like OoT has "No WW". Then there could be simply "Glitchless" where none of these tricks would be applied.

Just a thought. Will try to test the Resta Dodge out sometime this week. Would solve the HP issue potentially.
Also, once I get my capture working and get a solid any% run (glitched), I'm definitely going to look into an All difficulties run and try to contribute more

saintmillion

2013-10-21 05:05:14 pm

station

so I did some testing on resta dodging. made a ramarl far enough to learn resta and tested on boomas. The resta dodge DOES work, but only if your HP is less than 100% full. Possible to use for final Falz or any other one shots that may otherwise be unavoidable. Perhaps purposely taking some sort of poison from an enemy in some area and then entering falz would work out?

It's a short time frame to do a Resta on and time it with an enemy's hit, but it's pretty easy after a few tries. I'm 90% it works against Phase 3 Falz's Grants.

AdamAK

2013-10-22 06:36:05 am

Totally rad

As far as I know, Resta dodging is very strongly dependent on the Resta level, the weapon you have equipped and the character class. As such, you'd have to master it either on every level of Resta, or keep Resta at a low level and just work with that.

I've done Resta dodging on Falz's Grants before, so that works just fine. His Phase 3 slash could be tricky, since it happens extremely quickly.

LeFrozer

2013-10-22 01:57:43 pm

I guess the fastet spell speed with resta is without weapon for sure. Also, there is a speed cap, bit I'm not sure at what level it caps without a weapon (probably 11+ or 15+?c needs further testing). If you want to equip a weapon, a mechgun has also a fast casting time.

I can confirm that you can resta dodge a slash , but as AdamAK already said, it's really hard to actually dodge it. Out of 20+ tries, I just did it twice (and I guess it was lucky, just because I've never used resta dodge before).

The first slash is actually the thing, that matters the most, if Falz doesn't slash more than twice, then the timing would be different...

Just another quesion for those with more experience in resta dodge: Can you actually "dodge" an attack, if it kills you?

P.S. I never expected this reaction o_O. I thought, there would be 5 responses at maximum.