Patching the game in the middle of a run?

Angelmark

Edit history:

Angelmark: 2009-07-12 03:44:16 am

2009-07-12 03:11:11 am

The Anomaly

I'm currently running Blood Omen 2 for pc. I started the run on v1.00 which is the default game version, but I found the later levels of the game to be almost unbearable to run due to constant game crashes. Patching the game to v1.02 would most likely fix these issues, but would I be allowed to do this when 1/3 of the run is already done? I've read the full patch notes and I can't see anything that would have any impact on the run other than save me a lot of restarts because of the game crashing.

I'll post them here for reference:

[quote]Version 1.01

* Various crash bugs (either lockups or crashes to desktop) have been fixed. Most notably crashes when loading a savegame, but also various ingame crashes.
* A new option has been added in the Setup to switch resolutions when playing movies. This should fix the problem where movies play extremely slow or choppy.
* Various minor graphical problems have been fixed.
* Refresh rate selection now works properly.
* Volume settings are now properly saved.
* Mouse controls have been tuned for better playability
* Movement actions (like Forward) can now be mapped onto mouse or gamepad buttons.
* Lookaround controls have been improved for keyboard, and can now also be used on gamepads.
* Various minor other fixes.

Version 1.02

* All fixes from 1.01 and improved stability.

Thread title:

I'm currently running Blood Omen 2 for pc. I started the run on v1.00 which is the default game version, but I found the later levels of the game to be almost unbearable to run due to constant game crashes. Patching the game to v1.02 would most likely fix these issues, but would I be allowed to do this when 1/3 of the run is already done? I've read the full patch notes and I can't see anything that would have any impact on the run other than save me a lot of restarts because of the game crashing.

I'll post them here for reference:

[quote]Version 1.01

* Various crash bugs (either lockups or crashes to desktop) have been fixed. Most notably crashes when loading a savegame, but also various ingame crashes.
    * A new option has been added in the Setup to switch resolutions when playing movies. This should fix the problem where movies play extremely slow or choppy.
    * Various minor graphical problems have been fixed.
    * Refresh rate selection now works properly.
    * Volume settings are now properly saved.
    * Mouse controls have been tuned for better playability
    * Movement actions (like Forward) can now be mapped onto mouse or gamepad buttons.
    * Lookaround controls have been improved for keyboard, and can now also be used on gamepads.
    * Various minor other fixes.

Version 1.02

* All fixes from 1.01 and improved stability.

ShadowWraith

2009-07-12 04:26:27 am

.

You'd need to restart the run.

Angelmark

2009-07-12 04:32:11 am

The Anomaly

Quote from ShadowWraith:

You'd need to restart the run.

You're absolutely sure about that?

Because if you aren't, then I'd rather wait for official confirmation...

ExplodingCabbage

2009-07-12 05:11:22 am

In general, SDA has a rule against changing version mid-run. However, it seems reasonable to allow runners to change version if it has no gameplay effects, and the admins might allow you to do so - although with Mike away and Enhasa being fairly inactive lately, it might be a few weeks before you get an official reply. If I were them, I'd be concerned about

Quote:

* Mouse controls have been tuned for better playability

I think you should post here exactly what that change means - a change in how the controls work is fairly significant.

Also, bear in mind that if an admin does let you do this, on the grounds that there is no effect on gameplay, and a verifier or viewer later discovers that there is an effect but it wasn't documented in the patch notes, then your run will be rejected and your efforts will go to waste.

Kabuto

2009-07-12 05:19:53 am

I've already asked that a while ago, the responses were (based on the question whether mixing multiple versions in a run is allowed):

Quote from nate:

don't think so (...) the main reason is that it makes it harder for others to beat your run (aka less likely they will do this kind of work).

Quote from mikwuyma:

That, and it also brings up possible consistency/continuity errors.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-07-12 05:37:10 am

Kabuto - as already noted, this case is different in that the patch (seemingly) has no gameplay effects, so those arguments don't apply. I don't think it's unreasonable for such cases to be treated differently.

gia

2009-07-12 11:55:44 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I dont see the problem if you are upgrading your version since that could happen in a normal playthrough, if you went back a version that would be a problem

Kibbo

Edit history:

Kibbo: 2009-07-12 01:08:00 pm

2009-07-12 12:44:21 pm

TIOLET!

I see no problem in applying different patches left and right as long as they're official patches. And as long as they don't break/modify save files, I guess.

Edit: The funny thing with this is that unless the runner explains he/she did this it will go unnoticed in most cases.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-07-12 01:16:14 pm

Kibbo - personally, I do have a problem with it for anything except IL runs. And on a note that actually matters, Mike has said that using different versions isn't even allowed with IL runs (which I think is retarded - does that mean if someone wants to use a different version they have to run every level again? - but so be it). See the Kane's Wrath thread:

Quote from mikwuyma:

I am not going to allow different versions for the same run

Kibbo

2009-07-12 01:27:14 pm

TIOLET!

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Mike has said that using different versions isn't even allowed with IL runs

This is about as useless as banning weapon changing scripts, because as I mentioned before, it's ridiculously easy to make it literally invisible to any verifier in many cases.

CMiller

2009-07-13 03:42:52 am

Quote from Kibbo:

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Mike has said that using different versions isn't even allowed with IL runs

This is about as useless as banning weapon changing scripts, because as I mentioned before, it's ridiculously easy to make it literally invisible to any verifier in many cases.

If the version change has no effects, then it wouldn't matter would it? If it does have an effect, that effect will be noticeable. Not sure what the problem is. If someone does a run of Sonic 2 using the original version, I'll see that the signpost in Casino night zone is placed slightly below ground level, whereas a run using newer versions it will be correctly placed. I don't see how a verifier won't notice a version change that has beneficial effects.

Kibbo

2009-07-13 05:59:07 am

TIOLET!

Quote:

If the version change has no effects, then it wouldn't matter would it?

Another reason it's a very useless rule.

Quote:

If it does have an effect, that effect will be noticeable.

No, definitely no. If it's something that affect controls or things like that there is no way you will ever be able to spot it. The only way you will be able to say with certainty that there has been a version change is if it changes things in the maps, models or similar things that actually gets 'caught on camera' when doing a run. How do you spot 'better NPC AI', for example, when they still do the exact same actions as before but with a smaller chance of being retarded?

Angelmark

2009-07-22 08:46:47 am

The Anomaly

Okay, I've spent some time playing the patched game, and the mouse control thing is actually huge. Instead having to slowly turn around you can make a complete reverse with the mouse.

Looks like I'll have to restart the run after all. It's all good though, with the crash bugs fixed, I'll have it done in no time.

your_name_here

2009-07-22 09:26:17 am

What if you were doing the steam version of a valve game? These patch themselves automatically. If an update was released while you were doing the run, would you be forced to restart?

ExplodingCabbage

2009-07-22 09:46:22 am

Yes, you would. I think you can just keep Steam in offline mode when playing the game you're running and you'll be fine, though.

Lag.Com

2009-07-22 09:46:42 am

sda loyalist

You can also tell Steam not to automatically patch individual games.

Inexistence

2009-07-22 11:40:15 am

Yes, Inexistence is a word.

Also, I believe DemonStrate is still working on his Portal speedrun, and Portal was updated a while ago. He now has a non-steam version of Portal that is pre-update, so he can continue the run.

ninetigerr

Edit history:

ninetigerr: 2009-07-25 01:26:41 am

2009-07-25 01:19:08 am

The way I see it, a new version => a different game. So, we shouldn't make runs which cross over versions. Of course, most patches are totally minimal/impossible to spot just by looking at gameplay footage.

However, most PC games show the version number at the title screen. Potentially, we could require showing the title screen for every segment? (Ugh, but then short videos with tons of segments [like Portal or Diablo] would be impossible to watch)

Mystery

2009-07-25 03:01:42 am

I think you're overly negative. New patch != new game. That's just unfair.
Instead, I would agree with the previous posts in the thread. New patch may or may not break an ongoing run.