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Miles: 2010-04-13 11:32:58 pm
Playlist (1 segment completed so far)

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...Okay, I was going to wait until I finished writing a route before making a topic (I've got a plan for everything, I just need to put it all together); however, I've been procrastinating a lot on doing so, so I'm going ahead and posting this. >_>  Maybe it'll get me to hurry up on it.

Anyway, I replayed this back in October, then watched the current run and noticed a bunch of spots that could be improved, so I decided to try it. I also needed a nice, long segmented run to work on now that Pikmin 2 is finished. Tongue

So any interest in seeing this? Or better yet, any ideas on how to improve the current run? Hopefully I won't be completely alone on this like I was for Pikmin 2.
Thread title:  
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
What spots? Remember it was played on PAL-50, so if the improvements involve better enemy avoidance routes, they might only be valid on NTSC and PAL-60.
Here's a quick list of things I made in about 5 minutes:

- It's generally faster to fail Action Commands in battle (e.x. the second bounce on a Jump).
- Get extra money solely through badges.
- Use new tricks (like jumping straight down to pipes in the Great Tree, or Spring Jumping staight up to the left side in Poshley Sanctum).
- Use Gale Force for some battles.
- Get Mega Rush before Chapter 3, as it costs time to go out of your way to get it before 2 (plus you need to get money to afford it somehow, plus the time spent getting in Peril negates any gains from it in battles anyway).
- Constantly jump when in the background.
- Waste turns by swapping partners.
- Don't fight any unnecessary battles.
- Faster battle strats in general
- Better optimization
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
The one thing the runner didn't do in the current run, was constantly jump throughout the background parts.  probably lost a good five minutes that way alone.
"Lost 5 minutes"? You spend less than 5 minutes in every background section combined. >_> Moving slightly faster through them isn't going to save that much time.

And I wouldn't say it's the "one" thing the current run doesn't do...
Fire Emblem?
I personally would be quite interested in seeing it. I'm not much of a speedrunner, so I doubt I can help much in planning, but if I can think of anything then I'll let you know. I don't think I watched most of the current run. It seemed quite slow to me and I got bored, but the bits I saw gave me the feeling it could be improved.
Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!
*see topic title*

HELLYEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

^ That is my immediate response to the idea of anything involving Thousand-Year Door. Still my favorite from the Paper Mario series (sorry, Super Paper Mario fans), and any speedrun love is fully supported by me. I had a blast watching the current speedrun with the realization of the Peril Mario strategy, but to see it done even better would blow me away! Smiley

Keep us informed! Cheesy
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from t r i - h e x:
*see topic title*

HELLYEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

^ That is my immediate response to the idea of anything involving Thousand-Year Door. Still my favorite from the Paper Mario series (sorry, Super Paper Mario fans), and any speedrun love is fully supported by me. I had a blast watching the current speedrun with the realization of the Peril Mario strategy, but to see it done even better would blow me away! Smiley

Keep us informed! Cheesy


Sorry if people don't agree with me here, but I found Super Paper Mario to be a major disappointment.  The first two are far superior.

Anyway.  I would love to see a improved run for this game.  It definately deserves one.  I wouldn't doubt you can take the time down below seven hours.
from red to blue
Wasn't the PAL-50 when converted sub 7:xx?

Either way, I'll be glad to see a run of this, IIRC, the spell/curse is in this game, giving +1/2 attack power, against bosses, would a +x+2 power bounce be needed? Or would it be faster and less annoying to just bounce more?
Oh, hey Miles.  I followed your Pikmin 2 speedrun on youtube, and it was excellent.  Didn't realize you posted here, as well.  If you apply the same attention to excellence to Paper Mario as you did to your Pikmin run, I'm sure this will be a fantastic run to watch. 

Kind or surprised that Pikmin 2 run isn't up on SDA actually... it's like a 4 hour improvement.
Fire Emblem?
It's because nobody verified it. There were a bunch of verifiers who came forward, and only one actually vetted the whole run (that would be me...). So it's been in the queue for months.
Finally, the route's done. It's a bit [overly?] complex, but hopefully someone other than me can understand it, and maybe suggest improvements. <_<
Attachment:
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from Kryal:
Wasn't the PAL-50 when converted sub 7:xx?


The game timer is 6:38 at the last load screen, and there's about 17.5 minutes of gameplay between that and the last attack on the Shadow Queen. So yes, it's about 6:53 if we factor in the lower speed, unless that's not how it's done.

I didn't spot any significant errors with the route.
Hey, look, I actually started! <_<

The segment had several noticeable mistakes, but while they look pretty bad, they didn't really cost much time (about 2 seconds combined). Compared to the entire segment length (16:48), it's barely anything. And I'm really sick of how much text this segment has. :\

The next few segments are less than half the length of this one, so progress should pick up from here. I hope...
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Seems okay. You seem to refer to this in terms of improving on the current run. Unless you're using 50hz mode, they'd be considered separate categories due to the differences between 50hz and 60hz.
Pretty sure they're not, because the PAL version is capable of running at 60Hz and was only done at 50 due to recording issues.

And even if they were separate, I'd still be trying to improve on it...
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
It can, yes, but playing on 50hz significantly changes the game. As Mark put it, 'The main difference between playing in 50 Hz and 60 Hz is that Mario, Peach and Bowser walk slightly slower in 50 Hz than in 60 Hz ... enemies seems to be unaffected between the two frame rates, meaning that an enemy which Mario can easily outrun in 60 Hz will easily catch up to him in 50 Hz.'

That's why you couldn't directly compare them: an 'improvement' might simply be something achievable in 60hz which isn't at 50hz. While for most games on the console where the PAL and NTSC versions are practically identical on 60hz, a better 60hz run would obsolete a 50hz run, the fact that the difference in frame rates affects something other than the universal speed complicates matters. It would be a shame to write off a run because one which was faster but can't be compared to it was done. I think we'd need one of SDA's chiefs to choose whether or not a 60hz run would obsolete a 50hz run.
The thing is, Miles is going to beat this run by such a large margin according to his plan, that even if the 50 Hz run could -walk through all enemies-, it still wouldn't beat the new run. In general, seperating PAL and NTSC is a good idea when they can't be easily compared. But in this case, when a run is obsoleted by a much, much better one, it makes little sense to leave the old version.
ow
Quote from t r i - h e x:
(sorry, Super Paper Mario fans)


I've never met anyone who has ever considered SPM a worthy game in comparison to the first two. It was definitely original and creative, but it was just not nearly as good.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from RingRush:
The thing is, Miles is going to beat this run by such a large margin according to his plan, that even if the 50 Hz run could -walk through all enemies-, it still wouldn't beat the new run.


If he does. If it's an hour shorter or uses tricks which can be replicated on 50hz, there's an argument for it. If it's only a minor improvement once the calculations have been done or the tricks aren't usable on both, there's no point declaring the 50hz run obsolete.
Quote from HalfMillennium:
If he does. If it's an hour shorter


It will be.

Quote from HalfMillennium:
or uses tricks which can be replicated on 50hz, there's an argument for it. If it's only a minor improvement once the calculations have been done or the tricks aren't usable on both, there's no point declaring the 50hz run obsolete.


From what I've seen, the only difference is that enemies comparatively move faster, which (1.) doesn't matter for a lot of enemies, and (2.) involves a relatively minor amount of the run.

Also, I've asked mikwuyma, and he said that they won't be considered separate categories.
I thoroughly enjoyed Mark Wong's run of it, and I have attempted to speedrun Paper Mario 2 myself, so I would love to see an optimized run of this game, seeing as how it's one of my personal favorites.

However, let's just hope that your DVD Recorder provides similar quality to the last run, eh?
Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!
OOHHH MY GAAWWWDD!

Dude, your Segment 1 is so sick! Your battles are awesome! Perfect reflects every time? Check! Stylish everything you can? Check! Beautiful menu-microing when equiping the upgraded hammer? Check!

It's all soooo good! The small things I noticed are what really blew me away! I didn't even know you could stylish hammer attacks, and non-charge hammer attacks are the type of out-of-the-box methods that just turn my expectations of how good this run will really be out of the water. (Sorry, if I'm pulling a slowpoke by being so impressed, I didn't checkout your route plan you uploaded. I'm gonna get around to that promptly)

Excellent work! I'm very eager to see more progress! Smiley

Quote from edman3d:
Quote from t r i - h e x:
(sorry, Super Paper Mario fans)


I've never met anyone who has ever considered SPM a worthy game in comparison to the first two. It was definitely original and creative, but it was just not nearly as good.


I was keeping my opinion soft in case I accidentally started a fanboy war and derailed Miles' thread, but honestly, I didn't care for SPM at all. It's not in the same stratosphere as Paper Mario 1 and Thousand-Year Door. I bought SPM blindly just based on how much I enjoyed TTYD and was so disappointed that everything that made TTYD excellent had vanished in place of last-minute tacked-on mechanics and a battle system swap that just made me scratch my head ...
Fire Emblem?
So has there been any progress on segment 2? I'm looking forward to this run, even if it's probably going to take a year or so to perfect.
Very interested in this. I wanted to run this as soon as i originally saw James' run, then wanted to single segment it, and now the newer one wants me to run it even more. Looking forward to watching your run, and hopefully getting around to my own someday. I'm either going to wait for you to finish and try to be the first to jump on improving yours, or just casually run it. Either way, yours is already looking fantastic with the 1st segment.