paper mario 100%

2010-11-07 12:20:02 am

You would be suprised, there is only a small chance at me getting even one extra level in which case it will be BP most likely to aid in the final Bowser fight.

Raiker Z

2010-11-07 12:22:37 am

I will revise that, I almost forgot about the Tunnels, Could be a second Level too... stupid tons of bloopers all over the place...

guest

2010-11-07 02:30:32 pm

Raiker Z, please use the edit button when you wish to add more to a post, rather than just making another one...

Raiker Z

2010-11-11 10:02:49 pm

Ya, sorry it was a bit late and I was busy didn't even notice I posted instead of edited, can't fix that now.

Right now I'm about halfway through Flower Fields with a 3:31 time, not to bad but there are a few things I'd like to work on in FF, but thats for another time.

All my hate goes to Bow's Scare for these last parts of the game, in time of gameplay anything with 3 or 4 enemies that is REQUIRED is scare or waste time (Technically scare is faster then killing anything, including the Buzzaps). It's way faster, then taking 2-3 turns per mole fight.

Yes I have found an alternate solution (if you want star points) Mega Quake + Mega Rush + Ultra Kooper = 1 hit kill for everything. On the downside you waste like 7-9 FP PER FIGHT. If you fight the 4 moles first, Kill one in the first turn, the other 3 can put a 10 hp mario to 1 hp, then Quake/Shell the other 3 (Shell on first turn saves time, but not FP) Repeat for the 2 moles and 3 moles, and then the fight with the solo mole its just a jump and shell away (Probably just a jump). This method takes about 1-2 minutes longer, so I'm ignoring it for now, but the payoff is probably a level, they each give 6 or 7 star points each.

As for the Super Block with 5 stupid Crazee Dayzee's guarding it, Yes it is possible to dodge all 5, No I do not plan to, there is a MUCH EASIER WAY, it does kill some time, but to be honest, I can't dodge all 5 at full speed, I have to do alot of backsteps, stops, and looping. To get by easier just dodge the first one (Both times) run away (really easy to do, I've gotten 100% on these guys before, but not commonly) and then 2 spins later your past them. You go invulnerable to dodge the majority of them. Sometimes its possible on the first guy ( like 1 2 3 2 1, = 5 of them, first second third per side) if he's as far in as he can go. I don't think this is making much sense, so all I'll say is if you care about how I get past these 5 guys, go to FF jump over one Dayzee and run from the next one. You'll probably figure it out on your own, wasn't a hard trick.

Last is me saying I'll probably not have an update for awhile, the past few days I've been busy, and now I've fallen behind in homework and other things I should do, so I wont really have time to work on this untill end of next week or so I think. Till then Gl to the other guy(s?) working on this.

Ya, sorry it was a bit late and I was busy didn't  even notice I posted instead of edited, can't fix that now.

Right now I'm about halfway through Flower Fields with a 3:31 time, not to bad but there are a few things I'd like to work on in FF, but thats for another time.

All my hate goes to Bow's Scare for these last parts of the game, in time of gameplay anything with 3 or 4 enemies that is REQUIRED is scare or waste time (Technically scare is faster then killing anything, including the Buzzaps). It's way faster, then taking 2-3 turns per mole fight.

Yes I have found an alternate solution (if you want star points) Mega Quake + Mega Rush + Ultra Kooper = 1 hit kill for everything. On the downside you waste like 7-9 FP PER FIGHT. If you fight the 4 moles first, Kill one in the first turn, the other 3 can put a 10 hp mario to 1 hp, then Quake/Shell the other 3 (Shell on first turn saves time, but not FP) Repeat for the 2 moles and 3 moles, and then the fight with the solo mole its just a jump and shell away (Probably just a jump). This method takes about 1-2 minutes longer, so I'm ignoring it for now, but the payoff is probably a level, they each give 6 or 7 star points each.

As for the Super Block with 5 stupid Crazee Dayzee's guarding it, Yes it is possible to dodge all 5, No I do not plan to, there is a MUCH EASIER WAY, it does kill some time, but to be honest, I can't dodge all 5 at full speed, I have to do alot of backsteps, stops, and looping. To get by easier just dodge the first one (Both times) run away (really easy to do, I've gotten 100% on these guys before, but not commonly) and then 2 spins later your past them. You go invulnerable to dodge the majority of them. Sometimes its possible on the first guy ( like 1 2 3 2 1, = 5 of them, first second third per side) if he's as far in as he can go. I don't think this is making much sense, so all I'll say is if you care about how I get past these 5 guys, go to FF jump over one Dayzee and run from the next one. You'll probably figure it out on your own, wasn't a hard trick.

Last is me saying I'll probably not have an update for awhile, the past few days I've been busy, and now I've fallen behind in homework and other things I should do, so I wont really have time to work on this untill end of next week or so I think. Till then Gl to the other guy(s?) working on this.

Raiker Z

2010-11-16 11:31:50 am

So, finally caught up with real life *though not without people trying to mess me up* but in my down time I've been thinking.

Does anyone else (because I do) think that I should skip Quizmo untill I plan to do all quizzes, or get a few along the way when he appears? Each has its benefits and disadvantages. Skipping Quizmo until the end means that I will be able to navigate his questions easier (Theres a pattern), but may cost me a minute or two overall. Getting him in the middle of the run may be a little faster (Cut off a segment or two) but would throw off both how fast I can do the quizzes (Because I'd have to check) and also it would be harder for me to remember how many I had (Which means I could be off on my segment plans, which could lead to very annoying consequences, the worst being restart the whole run). I'm thinking about NOT getting him along the way since in my test run I've seen him 3 times (And only done 2 because of how inconvenient the 3rd was) and I think AT BEST I can luck manipulate him around 10 times the entire run before I do his personal segments. Skipping it could be a downfall of my run (Considering im 90% sure it is wasting time) but the speed of the run itself may not change (Considering it still takes time to do his stuff, and seeing him randomly would mean I'd do it slower). Considering those insights, what do all of you think? You may think of something I forgot which would push me into one or the other.

Also hoping to get through another segment today, annoying scare to do (Who's idea was it to give yet ANOTHER 4 enemy fight, as if the moles weren't bad enough...) I almost did this segment in one take (as in while planning it, which would've been amazing considering generally my speed SUCKS while planning) but then on the way back to saving, i fell into thorns -.- (which cost me enough time to say no go) I'll probably finish this, but the next segment after this is the spike battle, where I have 10 HP I believe, so... ya 3 blocks (1 through close call) and maybe one miss throw, I also will probably have to think of a way around Huff N' Puff since I doubt I'll level (Maybe go back and get a repel gel? hmmm Idea's Idea's)

Oh well, qwerty, how is your planning going?

So, finally caught up with real life *though not without people trying to mess me up* but in my down time I've been thinking.

Does anyone else (because I do) think that I should skip Quizmo untill I plan to do all quizzes, or get a few along the way when he appears? Each has its benefits and disadvantages. Skipping Quizmo until the end means that I will be able to navigate his questions easier (Theres a pattern), but may cost me a minute or two overall. Getting him in the middle of the run may be a little faster (Cut off a segment or two) but would throw off both how fast I can do the quizzes (Because I'd have to check) and also it would be harder for me to remember how many I had (Which means I could be off on my segment plans, which could lead to very annoying consequences, the worst being restart the whole run). I'm thinking about NOT getting him along the way since in my test run I've seen him 3 times (And only done 2 because of how inconvenient the 3rd was) and I think AT BEST I can luck manipulate him around 10 times the entire run before I do his personal segments. Skipping it could be a downfall of my run (Considering im 90% sure it is wasting time) but the speed of the run itself may not change (Considering it still takes time to do his stuff, and seeing him randomly would mean I'd do it slower). Considering those insights, what do all of you think? You may think of something I forgot which would push me into one or the other.

Also hoping to get through another segment today, annoying scare to do (Who's idea was it to give yet ANOTHER 4 enemy fight, as if the moles weren't bad enough...) I almost did this segment in one take (as in while planning it, which would've been amazing considering generally my speed SUCKS while planning) but then on the way back to saving, i fell into thorns -.- (which cost me enough time to say no go) I'll probably finish this, but the next segment after this is the spike battle, where I have 10 HP I believe, so... ya 3 blocks (1 through close call) and maybe one miss throw, I also will probably have to think of a way around Huff N' Puff since I doubt I'll level (Maybe go back and get a repel gel? hmmm Idea's Idea's)

Oh well, qwerty, how is your planning going?

FionordeQuester

2010-11-16 12:12:27 pm

I think, if you think getting Quizmo shards along the way is faster, you should do it, even if it's harder. If you have to say in your notes that you had to skip him several times just because it's a little bit easier to do so, that's not going to look good to the verifiers considering that this is a segmented run.

NoiseCrash

2010-11-16 12:31:37 pm

@_@

You should certainly get Quizmo along the way if he's conveniently along your path. Not doing so means one more appearance you have to use time manipulating later, there's literally no reason to skip him. Also why would you have to check the answer while playing? He asks all the questions in order. Memorize the next answer or two beforehand. A minute or two of needless time-wasting is a big deal, especially since it's segmented.

Also if you're having trouble with Spook now, wait till you get to the White Clubbas in Crystal Palace.

If you want to not waste time on Huff N. Puff, you could always just manipulate two Close Call misses...

Raiker Z

2010-11-16 12:51:16 pm

To be honest on Huff N. Puff I'm more worried about running out of FP, which would be easy enough to fix (Stinky Herbs are all over the place here) Luck Manipulating 2 misses would be faster then using a repel gel, What about goombario's charge though? maybe I could cut it down to one miss that way... That will come in time I guess.

Why tell me that? Cry

I don't wanna know that it'll only get worse! lol Sigh, I guess after those parts I'll be much happier at these parts when I do them again.

As for the Quizmo parts memorizing them may be possible, but you have to remember, even on luck manipulation there are such huge gaps between when you can see him I'd probably make a mistake, and thats a stupid way to reset on a segment in my opinion. And I'm not 100% sure if it will even waste time, it may very well be faster to just do them all at the same time, because either way I'll end up going out of my way for most of them, so for all I know getting them during the segments will use the same amount of time as getting them while getting the rest. The only thing I know for sure is that there would be more segments, getting them during other segments just increaces the time of those. I don't know if the increase would be the same as the length of the segment or not though.

The one thing I know for sure is my "Plan A" (from several pages back) would be FASTER then any other method, "Plan B" is either the same as randomly getting it, or a little slower I cant be sure. Although im 90% sure the first wont be possible, I really hope it is.

I think I'm gonna go look for a new controller too, I'm not sure if mine is going to survive the constant tugging on it, and even if it does, having a backup or two on hand will only make me feel better.

To be honest on Huff N. Puff I'm more worried about running out of FP, which would be easy enough to fix (Stinky Herbs are all over the place here) Luck Manipulating 2 misses would be faster then using a repel gel, What about goombario's charge though? maybe I could cut it down to one miss that way... That will come in time I guess.

Why tell me that? :'( I don't wanna know that it'll only get worse! lol Sigh, I guess after those parts I'll be much happier at these parts when I do them again.

As for the Quizmo parts memorizing them may be possible, but you have to remember, even on luck manipulation there are such huge gaps between when you can see him I'd probably make a mistake, and thats a stupid way to reset on a segment in my opinion. And I'm not 100% sure if it will even waste time, it may very well be faster to just do them all at the same time, because either way I'll end up going out of my way for most of them, so for all I know getting them during the segments will use the same amount of time as getting them while getting the rest. The only thing I know for sure is that there would be more segments, getting them during other segments just increaces the time of those. I don't know if the increase would be the same as the length of the segment or not though.

The one thing I know for sure is my "Plan A" (from several pages back) would be FASTER then any other method, "Plan B" is either the same as randomly getting it, or a little slower I cant be sure. Although im 90% sure the first wont be possible, I really hope it is.

I think I'm gonna go look for a new controller too, I'm not sure if mine is going to survive the constant tugging on it, and even if it does, having a backup or two on hand will only make me feel better.

Sillygramcracker

Edit history:

Sillygramcracker: 2010-11-16 06:56:37 pm

Sillygramcracker: 2010-11-16 06:49:17 pm

2010-11-16 06:45:30 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

@Raiker Z: Are you really concerned about dying against "Spike" with only 10 HP? Surely you could simply power bounce your way through all the bosses at this point in the game: "Spike" can go down in about 3 power bounces plus a couple of attacks by your partner, given that your default jump attack is 5 (if it's only 4, then 3 power bounces and Goombario's charge+multibonk should do the trick). If you normally have Money Money (7 BP) equipped (which you really should, as we've already established), it only takes a second to take it off and replace it with a Power Plus (6 BP) and Power Rush (1 BP) (or, if you're really that worried about dying, Defend Plus and Last Stand or both Damage Dodges and Last Stand; if you're more concerned about defense I recommend the latter, but you should really have at least one damage dodge on anyway, unless you're trying to manipulate attacks to get danger or peril status). If in doubt, I would recommend testing to see if the rather small time it takes to make this adjustment, in addition to the time it takes to re-equip Money Money after the battle, is less than or greater than the time saved by switching badges just for the battle. In a worst case scenario, just get a life shroom, and equip both power pluses with power bounce so that you can finish the fight in three turns, even if you take more than 10 damage. Of course, in considering all this I haven't taken abusing Close Call into account, so maybe you could put that on with one or both power pluses and power bounce, and manipulate the luck so that the lakitu misses you once, hits you for five damage once, and hits you for four damage (which can be done by guarding without defend plus or damage dodge on), so that you can abuse peril status to do MASSIVE DAMAGE to finish him. Once again, if you're interested in trying out more than one of these strategies, I suggest timing your attempts to do each to see which is faster or the fastest.

EDIT: Crap I just remembered that you have been manipulating the jump attack and hammer attack games for coins rather than using Money Money. If you can still manage to temporarily replace at least six or seven BP worth of badges to try out any of my suggestions, please consider it.

Anyway, regarding Chuck Quizmo, I would say you should perhaps consider manipulating his tendency to appear in Koopa Village when going through the first half of the letter-trading sequence, which entails at least two visits there anyway (you have to deliver two letters to Koover, the koopa standing in front of the toad house).

One more thing: I was going to suggest an alternative to using Spook if it's so difficult, but then I remembered that while it's easier to do, it's not nearly as fast or as efficient. The second-fastest way to beat each set of clubbas (that I can think of) is to use either multibounce/mega quake + power bomb, which while guaranteeing one turn kills for all enemies, would still cost at least 3 times as much FP as, and less trivially, would probably also be at least three times slower than using Spook on each set of enemies.

@Raiker Z: Are you really concerned about dying against "Spike" with only 10 HP? Surely you could simply power bounce your way through all the bosses at this point in the game: "Spike" can go down in about 3 power bounces plus a couple of attacks by your partner, given that your default jump attack is 5 (if it's only 4, then 3 power bounces and Goombario's charge+multibonk should do the trick). If you normally have Money Money  (7 BP) equipped (which you really should, as we've already established), it only takes a second to take it off and replace it with a Power Plus (6 BP) and Power Rush (1 BP) (or, if you're really that worried about dying, Defend Plus and Last Stand or both Damage Dodges and Last Stand; if you're more concerned about defense I recommend the latter, but you should really have at least one damage dodge on anyway, unless you're trying to manipulate attacks to get danger or peril status). If in doubt, I would recommend testing to see if the rather small time it takes to make this adjustment, in addition to the time it takes to re-equip Money Money after the battle, is less than or greater than the time saved by switching badges just for the battle. In a worst case scenario, just get a life shroom, and equip both power pluses with power bounce so that you can finish the fight in three turns, even if you take more than 10 damage. Of course, in considering all this I haven't taken abusing Close Call into account, so maybe you could put that on with one or both power pluses and power bounce, and manipulate the luck so that the lakitu misses you once, hits you for five damage once, and hits you for four damage (which can be done by guarding without defend plus or damage dodge on), so that you can abuse peril status to do MASSIVE DAMAGE to finish him. Once again, if you're interested in trying out more than one of these strategies, I suggest timing your attempts to do each to see which is faster or the fastest.

EDIT: Crap I just remembered that you have been manipulating the jump attack and hammer attack games for coins rather than using Money Money. If you can still manage to temporarily replace at least six or seven BP worth of badges to try out any of my suggestions, please consider it.

Anyway, regarding Chuck Quizmo, I would say you should perhaps consider manipulating his tendency to appear in Koopa Village when going through the first half of the letter-trading sequence, which entails at least two visits there anyway (you have to deliver two letters to Koover, the koopa standing in front of the toad house).

One more thing: I was going to suggest an alternative to using Spook if it's so difficult, but then I remembered that while it's easier to do, it's not nearly as fast or as efficient. The second-fastest way to beat each set of clubbas (that I can think of) is to use either multibounce/mega quake + power bomb, which while guaranteeing one turn kills for all enemies, would still cost at least 3 times as much FP as, and less trivially, would probably also be at least three times slower than using Spook on each set of enemies.

ComboKing

2010-11-16 07:09:14 pm

Kind of obvious but make sure your segments aren't too long or this run will take you forever. You have the 100% definition ready right?

Raiker Z

2010-11-16 09:23:37 pm

silly Sillygramcracker, not I'm not worried about dying on spike, as much as I'm worried about him missing me (Although I'll probably die to him a few times if I need him to miss me once) Spike? is not that bad, only his hp is annoying, and not very at that, but using goombario is an interesting idea...

Money money is useless at the cost of 7 bp, huge waste to use it, and since I dodge most enemies wouldn't come in handy very well. Also I only want to go up the stairs once (for both the letter and getting her badges) so making a trip there for one badge seems like a waste, if I was going to use it, Flower Finder would be the better badge (Since replenishing Fp is what really concerns me)

I really wish I could time it to see if there even is a difference... I think the most you can luck manipulate him is about 20 or so, and only 10 or so are efficient enough (Actually along the path you take)

One really efficient alternate (That I'd suggest for a SS) is Mega Quake + Power Rush and Fully Upgraded Kooper, I think thats about 10 damage to all on the floor per turn, at about 5-6 FP per turn but the issue with that is the whole 10 Hp part if they have more, your dead. Fire shell may do more, but I'm fairly certain it costs more Fp. In Flower Fields FP isn't a huge issue though, there are TONS of stinky herbs, they recover 5 Fp, but if you get one per pass per area, you can refill a huge amount of FP, without going to a toad house.

Combo, the longest segement will probably be the first one (~10 min) and thats about 90% cutscene, while some feel like there are alot in them, most of it is trivial (as in, if a segment is longer then 10 min, it will be errands, which are basically no risk and difficult to mess up)

The definition is: All badges and All super blocks. All badges for this game requires all star pieces. Recipe's and Optional Bosses are NOT required. I feel that this definition isn't right for a 100% but I am also sure that noone will get on if they do those, recipe's are to big of a time sink, or I'd incorporate them into this run, just so I feel like I did 100%. I can see why it's not considered necessary though, recipe's provide NO extra gameplay then the 100% that has been defined, and are just a waste of an hour or more. Remember all star pieces require (insert cuss word here) Koopa Koot, and you need to cook for him both with, and without the cookbook. So any gameplay that recipe's provide, can be seen there, just muliply it by 40 or so.

silly Sillygramcracker, not I'm not worried about dying on spike, as much as I'm worried about him missing me (Although I'll probably die to him a few times if I need him to miss me once) Spike? is not that bad, only his hp is annoying, and not very at that, but using goombario is an interesting idea...

Money money is useless at the cost of 7 bp, huge waste to use it, and since I dodge most enemies wouldn't come in handy very well. Also I only want to go up the stairs once (for both the letter and getting her badges) so making a trip there for one badge seems like a waste, if I was going to use it, Flower Finder would be the better badge (Since replenishing Fp is what really concerns me)

I really wish I could time it to see if there even is a difference... I think the most you can luck manipulate him is about 20 or so, and only 10 or so are efficient enough (Actually along the path you take)

One really efficient alternate (That I'd suggest for a SS) is Mega Quake + Power Rush and Fully Upgraded Kooper, I think thats about 10 damage to all on the floor per turn, at about 5-6 FP per turn but the issue with that is the whole 10 Hp part if they have more, your dead. Fire shell may do more, but I'm fairly certain it costs more Fp. In Flower Fields FP isn't a huge issue though, there are TONS of stinky herbs, they recover 5 Fp, but if you get one per pass per area, you can refill a huge amount of FP, without going to a toad house.

Combo, the longest segement will probably be the first one (~10 min) and thats about 90% cutscene, while some feel like there are alot in them, most of it is trivial (as in, if a segment is longer then 10 min, it will be errands, which are basically no risk and difficult to mess up)

The definition is: All badges and All super blocks. All badges for this game requires all star pieces. Recipe's and Optional Bosses are NOT required. I feel that this definition isn't right for a 100% but I am also sure that noone will get on if they do those, recipe's are to big of a time sink, or I'd incorporate them into this run, just so I feel like I did 100%. I can see why it's not considered necessary though, recipe's provide NO extra gameplay then the 100% that has been defined, and are just a waste of an hour or more. Remember all star pieces require (insert cuss word here) Koopa Koot, and you need to cook for him both with, and without the cookbook. So any gameplay that recipe's provide, can be seen there, just muliply it by 40 or so.

mocliamtoh

2010-11-16 11:27:41 pm

My name is unpronounceable

The recipes are a huge time waster. This video is the best example i can think of that shows how much time they take.

I'd like to help you with your route, but I haven't played the game in years, and years, so I can't be of much help in that regard. However, I do want to let you know I'm looking forward to the end product, whenever it may come about.

FionordeQuester

2010-11-16 11:51:18 pm

Hmm, so Raiker, since recipes won't be included, could you one day make a route that assumes you were including them in your run?

Raiker Z

2010-11-17 08:25:34 am

I could... but I probably wont, someone else could if they ever change the definition (or I will because then mine would be taken off) but I'll warn now, you NEED to plot your item consumsion/sales. You have 30 spaces in the stores check + 10 for your inventory, and 50 recipe's total. A lot of the recipes call for cake mix too, which unless you plan to scare all of the shy guys, you'll need to be level 15 or so to just bump them to death. You need to make sure to cook anything you can (probably including one mistake) that requires 1 item before you get the book, and to hold onto items that Koopa Koot wants untill you do his segments. Honestly I'd love to see a run with recipe's but farming all the ingrediants would push it up to 7 hours+ probably, even with optimal planning. And as this nice video shows us, it takes 30 minutes in just "Tra-la-la-la-la"ing after you farm the ingrediants. (Though I doubt this was one take, or every recipe, 50 recipe's and about 40 of them require 2 ingrediants = 80 items = 2 required takes + 1 more for the single ingrediants/leftovers)

By the way, who watched the recipe portion of the video? I was watching the speedrun/mario 64 portion and laughing at the commentary.

I could... but I probably wont, someone else could if they ever change the definition (or I will because then mine would be taken off) but I'll warn now, you NEED to plot your item consumsion/sales. You have 30 spaces in the stores check + 10 for your inventory, and 50 recipe's total. A lot of the recipes call for cake mix too, which unless you plan to scare all of the shy guys, you'll need to be level 15 or so to just bump them to death. You need to make sure to cook anything you can (probably including one mistake) that requires 1 item before you get the book, and to hold onto items that Koopa Koot wants untill you do his segments. Honestly I'd love to see a run with recipe's but farming all the ingrediants would push it up to 7 hours+ probably, even with optimal planning. And as this nice video shows us, it takes 30 minutes in just "Tra-la-la-la-la"ing  after you farm the ingrediants. (Though I doubt this was one take, or every recipe, 50 recipe's and about 40 of them require 2 ingrediants = 80 items = 2 required takes + 1 more for the single ingrediants/leftovers)

By the way, who watched the recipe portion of the video? I was watching the speedrun/mario 64 portion and laughing at the commentary.

Raiker Z

Edit history:

Raiker Z: 2010-11-17 09:47:02 pm

2010-11-17 08:55:46 pm

So rather then doing homework (like I should've) I decided to press forward a little with the run. I've gotten 3 segments (both planned and tested) out of the way, and I'm now at Huff N' Puff.

I have two options for beating him, I'm leaning for the second way (which is easier and probably faster)

Option 1: Get S. Jump Charge, equip it, and use one turn charging Mario and Goombario, manipulate a close call miss, and then Power Bounce/Multibonk Huff N' Puff on the Second turn. This way requires one less turn then the second way, but requires me doing 9 power bounces (Which I suck at) with Mario, and 5 Multibonks with Goombario (not to bad/semi annoying). I do not know if the extra bounces negate the saved time from the turn that I dont have to do or not.

Option 2: Get S. Jump Charge, equip it. Use it two turns in a row. The first turn either swap to Bow or do nothing. Manipulate a close call miss. Then use Bow to hide mario from Huff N' Puff's second attack and then do 7 power bounces to beat him in one attacking turn. This way requires half the bounces then the first option, so this is the one I'm leaning towards.

Anyone think option 1 is faster, and if it is do you think its faster enough to matter? or do you think it may be only a second or two? Honestly I think the second way is faster, but maybe one of you has timed the differences in turns/power bounces.

EDIT: Option 2 revised. Use Bow's Hide first turn, then on third turn use Fan Smack, it does 10 damage, and cuts off two power bounces (down to 5) Which makes things a ton easier (as in first try when I finally realized "Hey I can probably manipulate a miss on the second turn and use Bow on the third, duh!") This definitly makes it shorter, thats 9 less power bounces for one turn (Where my partner's choice is pre determined, so I don't even go to her either :P)

So rather then doing homework (like I should've) I decided to press forward a little with the run. I've gotten 3 segments (both planned and tested) out of the way, and I'm now at Huff N' Puff.

I have two options for beating him, I'm leaning for the second way (which is easier and probably faster)

Option 1: Get S. Jump Charge, equip it, and use one turn charging Mario and Goombario, manipulate a close call miss, and then Power Bounce/Multibonk Huff N' Puff on the Second turn. This way requires one less turn then the second way, but requires me doing 9 power bounces (Which I suck at) with Mario, and 5 Multibonks with Goombario (not to bad/semi annoying). I do not know if the extra bounces negate the saved time from the turn that I dont have to do or not.

Option 2: Get S. Jump Charge, equip it. Use it two turns in a row. The first turn either swap to Bow or do nothing. Manipulate a close call miss. Then use Bow to hide mario from Huff N' Puff's second attack and then do 7 power bounces to beat him in one attacking turn. This way requires half the bounces then the first option, so this is the one I'm leaning towards.

Anyone think option 1 is faster, and if it is do you think its faster enough to matter? or do you think it may be only a second or two? Honestly I think the second way is faster, but maybe one of you has timed the differences in turns/power bounces.

EDIT: Option 2 revised. Use Bow's Hide first turn, then on third turn use Fan Smack, it does 10 damage, and cuts off two power bounces (down to 5) Which makes things a ton easier (as in first try when I finally realized "Hey I can probably manipulate a miss on the second turn and use Bow on the third, duh!") This definitly makes it shorter, thats 9 less power bounces for one turn (Where my partner's choice is pre determined, so I don't even go to her either :P)

qwerty1605

Edit history:

qwerty1605: 2010-11-18 03:58:35 pm

2010-11-18 03:57:48 pm

Option two definitely. When I battled Huff N' Puff during my 5 hp run I had him do his body slam on the first turn (blocked) as I charged Fan smack with bow then I charged and used outta' sight then I power Bounced.
It is pretty close to yours but the problem is getting at 5 hp which is probably slower.
Of he could bady slam you twice and you have no need for a partner if you are at 10HP but still slower and less luck manipulation.

EDIT: what is your spike strat. Raiker

Sillygramcracker

2010-11-18 04:02:48 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

I have a tip for you, Raiker Z: please don't let this speed run get in the way of your homework. Real life always has the highest priority, and speed running is a recreational activity. We can wait for you to pick up where you left off as soon as you can spare the time.

Raiker Z

2010-11-18 05:28:19 pm

My Strategy for Spike? is basically run into thorns (on purpose) to get to 9 HP, then have him hit me twice to get to one hp, then manipulate a miss. I charge with goombario 3 times to get him up to 8 damage (so he does 16) then mario does 12 for two turns, and 6 for the other two turns. It comes out to 52 damage Smiley

I'm not sure if its faster or slower then the any%, but because of extra fights I level earlier then he does.

Don't worry, I've already caught up on it, the only class that I can say I'm behind in I have a 97% in at the moment, and I'm not to worried about this chapter, I know to be responsible and all that, thanks though Smiley

I've worked out my plans for the money making segments, Rather then making sure 100% of the time I get over 500 coins in gambling (because now I get to do this fun... fun... stuff) I need to make sure that I have 460+ each time I go shopping. This is A LOT easier and probably just as fast. The segments need to be done in 5 segments (Because he sells 16 badges total, and I buy Speedy Spin after chapter 1) so 5 segments * 3 badges per segment means that I only suffer through 5, doing 500+ each means nothing since you need to be 2 screens away to reset stock (guess how far away the Jump Attack game is?)

Downside of this way is just that its 1 segment more then planned, but I'd have to go 2 screens away regardless for the shop restock. And its alot easier to not sweat getting a 100 coin win when you only need 50, rather then insisting on 500 coing wins Smiley

Using this method its roughly 1-2 minutes per segment (I'm allowing for 1 or 2 losses in pre run planning, so 2 minutes seems common) and I've gotten 12 badges from the shop (4 segment plans) So I'm actually way ahead of schedule. The 6th gambling segment that I'll need to do is going to suck though (need the coins for Rip Cheato after all...) because there is no denying how many I'll need for him.

My Strategy for Spike? is basically run into thorns (on purpose) to get to 9 HP, then have him hit me twice to get to one hp, then manipulate a miss. I charge with goombario 3 times to get him up to 8 damage (so he does 16) then mario does 12 for two turns, and 6 for the other two turns. It comes out to 52 damage :) I'm not sure if its faster or slower then the any%, but because of extra fights I level earlier then he does.

Don't worry, I've already caught up on it, the only class that I can say I'm behind in I have a 97% in at the moment, and I'm not to worried about this chapter, I know to be responsible and all that, thanks though :)

I've worked out my plans for the money making segments, Rather then making sure 100% of the time I get over 500 coins in gambling (because now I get to do this fun... fun... stuff) I need to make sure that I have 460+ each time I go shopping. This is A LOT easier and probably just as fast. The segments need to be done in 5 segments (Because he sells 16 badges total, and I buy Speedy Spin after chapter 1) so 5 segments * 3 badges per segment means that I only suffer through 5, doing 500+ each means nothing since you need to be 2 screens away to reset stock (guess how far away the Jump Attack game is?)

Downside of this way is just that its 1 segment more then planned, but I'd have to go 2 screens away regardless for the shop restock. And its alot easier to not sweat getting a 100 coin win when you only need 50, rather then insisting on 500 coing wins :)

Using this method its roughly 1-2 minutes per segment (I'm allowing for 1 or 2 losses in pre run planning, so 2 minutes seems common) and I've gotten 12 badges from the shop (4 segment plans) So I'm actually way ahead of schedule. The 6th gambling segment that I'll need to do is going to suck though (need the coins for Rip Cheato after all...) because there is no denying how many I'll need for him.

Raiker Z

2010-11-19 01:02:32 pm

Tell me what you think, I just got a new toy yesterday so I've been testing it out ^.^

FionordeQuester

2010-11-19 05:07:25 pm

What's so special about it? Are you showing off a new trick?

Raiker Z

2010-11-19 06:21:52 pm

Sorta showing off the speed of the money, this was a bad win, but it still takes a little under a minute to get 270 coins. Also I just got my capture device so I put a few videos up to check the quality. Felt like sharing it ^.^

As of this video I have 50 badges, and only need 2 more from the badge shop before I work on the sewers and start on chapter 7. The video I put up actually didnt get into my speed test, I need 310+ coins, 270 was to low. Also I need 640+ coins after I clean out the badge shop, for Rip Cheato, so if I don't post in awhile, my luck went to hell.

13013

(user is banned)

2010-11-19 07:00:45 pm

Yes Mario Riding A Pole

Quote from Raiker Z:

Sorta showing off the speed of the money, this was a bad win, but it still takes a little under a minute to get 270 coins. Also I just got my capture device so I put a few videos up to check the quality. Felt like sharing it ^.^

As of this video I have 50 badges, and only need 2 more from the badge shop before I work on the sewers and start on chapter 7. The video I put up actually didnt get into my speed test, I need 310+ coins, 270 was to low. Also I need 640+ coins after I clean out the badge shop, for Rip Cheato, so if I don't post in awhile, my luck went to hell.

this post is full of win.

I CANT WAIT Raiker Z UNTIL ITS UP TO WATCH

Raiker Z

2010-11-19 08:14:23 pm

Well, its going to be coming, still need to finish up chapter 7 and Bowsers castle, then I'll have a Time To Beat up and officially start working on it! Love this recorder.

Just as a note, luck is sorta with me, I need 100 coins to have enough for Rip Cheato and then I'm off to everything again, and with the holidays coming up, my free time is only going to go up. Hope to get started on recording the actual run by January/Feb.

After checking that video with... everything. This is waaaaaaay faster then any other method, even selling off Whacka's Bumps would take longer in the store then one of these segments, so... ya sorry everyone else who is doing a run, but you basically have to gamble ^.^

Just a side note, if you saw the rumor that you can get 2 Whacka's Bumps per trip to Whacka by using Bombette, that one is false, I don't have video proof (Like chapter 1 repel gel, or 2 turn Goomba King) but sadly it is a lie. Shame people like to post things like that, but it was worth a test, because then you could essentially get all of the bumps without going to far out of your way. Gambling is essentially faster, but using something stable like the Whacka's bumps wouldn't hurt I guess, especially when your only a few coins off.

The lowest you can get from this method is 38 coins (which I've gotten) so that normally would get a reset, but the most you can get is 950 coins Smiley

I need just under half that, generally Smiley

Its about 1 min 45 seconds to get to the game, win the game, get the badges, and save. Take that Desert!

Well, its going to be coming, still need to finish up chapter 7 and Bowsers castle, then I'll have a Time To Beat up and officially start working on it! Love this recorder.

Just as a note, luck is sorta with me, I need 100 coins to have enough for Rip Cheato and then I'm off to everything again, and with the holidays coming up, my free time is only going to go up. Hope to get started on recording the actual run by January/Feb.

After checking that video with... everything. This is waaaaaaay faster then any other method, even selling off Whacka's Bumps would take longer in the store then one of these segments, so... ya sorry everyone else who is doing a run, but you basically have to gamble ^.^

Just a side note, if you saw the rumor that you can get 2 Whacka's Bumps per trip to Whacka by using Bombette, that one is false, I don't have video proof (Like chapter 1 repel gel, or 2 turn Goomba King) but sadly it is a lie. Shame people like to post things like that, but it was worth a test, because then you could essentially get all of the bumps without going to far out of your way. Gambling is essentially faster, but using something stable like the Whacka's bumps wouldn't hurt I guess, especially when your only a few coins off.

The lowest you can get from this method is 38 coins (which I've gotten) so that normally would get a reset, but the most you can get is 950 coins :) I need just under half that, generally :) Its about 1 min 45 seconds to get to the game, win the game, get the badges, and save. Take that Desert!

Sillygramcracker

Edit history:

Sillygramcracker: 2010-11-20 03:12:12 pm

2010-11-20 03:04:03 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

Clearly I have much to learn. Today I finished speeding through the game casually and got a final time of around 12 or 13 hours, using money money and selling off maple ultras, sweet shrooms, and the like. While my gameplay definitely wasn't optimal (I did a ton of battles that I could've skipped), I doubt I could ever get that many coins so fast using any other method than the casino (and I really suck at both games). Do you suppose the coin-gathering methods that are slower substitutes for jump attack would only be feasible for any masochists interested in doing a 100% single segment? Also, nice going getting a sweet new recorder. You're on your way Raiker!

EDIT: I just remembered that cyghfer's approximately 3-hour single segment is about as heavily luck-based as a segmented run, so if that serves as precedent for speedrunning Mario RPGs in general, then clearly an ideal 100% single-segmented run of Paper Mario would be as reliant on jump attack as the SMRPG SS is on power jumping enough to get the super suit (insert Samuel L. Jackson joke here).

Clearly I have much to learn. Today I finished speeding through the game casually and got a final time of around 12 or 13 hours, using money money and selling off maple ultras, sweet shrooms, and the like. While my gameplay definitely wasn't optimal (I did a ton of battles that I could've skipped), I doubt I could ever get that many coins so fast using any other method than the casino (and I really suck at both games). Do you suppose the coin-gathering methods that are slower substitutes for jump attack would only be feasible for any masochists interested in doing a 100% single segment? Also, nice going getting a sweet new recorder. You're on your way Raiker!

EDIT: I just remembered that cyghfer's approximately 3-hour single segment is about as heavily luck-based as a segmented run, so if that serves as precedent for speedrunning Mario RPGs in general, then clearly an ideal 100% single-segmented run of Paper Mario would be as reliant on jump attack as the SMRPG SS is on power jumping enough to get the super suit (insert Samuel L. Jackson joke here).

Raiker Z

2010-11-20 04:53:15 pm

For the 100% ss idea, the best ways for money (that doesn't require you being the luckiest sob ever born) would probably be: A)Get really good at the hammer game (Which requires less luck then Jump Attack) or B) get the money for Rip Cheato, equip bump attack and money money, and go to the "Bandit Oasis" (Location with the bunch of bandits) repeatedly for cash. Using the cooking methods more then is required for the run would take to long to be beneficial, but I could be wrong.

As for the luck based parts of a Paper Mario ss I'd say: Speedy Spin in one trip (4 badges can spawn after chapter 1), Forever forest without getting in a fight or getting lost (isn't as hard as it sounds), and the last "luck" part you should work on (this is especially true of a 100% one) would be memorize what isn't random, like the stone configuration in Dry Dry Ruins, the color boxes in the Toy Box, Quizmo Questions (100% part), and Peach's Quiz Questions (though the first choice for all of them works too). Just remember in a Paper Mario ss random battles aren't bad things, you need the extra levels (especially for bump attack, fighting for coins is to big a waste of time). I guess use refund as much as you can too, you get that early.

For the 100% ss idea, the best ways for money (that doesn't require you being the luckiest sob ever born) would probably be: A)Get really good at the hammer game (Which requires less luck then Jump Attack) or B) get the money for Rip Cheato, equip bump attack and money money, and go to the "Bandit Oasis" (Location with the bunch of bandits) repeatedly for cash. Using the cooking methods more then is required for the run would take to long to be beneficial, but I could be wrong.

As for the luck based parts of a Paper Mario ss I'd say: Speedy Spin in one trip (4 badges can spawn after chapter 1), Forever forest without getting in a fight or getting lost (isn't as hard as it sounds), and the last "luck" part you should work on (this is especially true of a 100% one) would be memorize what isn't random, like the stone configuration in Dry Dry Ruins, the color boxes in the Toy Box, Quizmo Questions (100% part), and Peach's Quiz Questions (though the first choice for all of them works too). Just remember in a Paper Mario ss random battles aren't bad things, you need the extra levels (especially for bump attack, fighting for coins is to big a waste of time). I guess use refund as much as you can too, you get that early.