Painkiller & BooH

Artas1984

2010-12-20 05:22:25 pm

Quote from Ewil:

I don't think it's a good game to speedrun. Killing lots of enemies in order to proceed further tend to be boring after a while.

This is the most ridiculous answer i have ever heard..
Painkiller, perhaps only second to Quake, is unlike any FPS game in this universe, that was meant for speedrunning in the first place! The developers were Quakeworld national champions or runners-up and exactly new what it takes to make a competitive game. Painkiller has all those end-level statistics just like Quake does and it is a fast paced game!
Killing monsters as fast and most skilled as you can is the very essence and explanation of why Painkiller is perfect for speedruns, and on top of that it has lots and lots of shortcuts!

Your argument is so weak.. I think that simply people do not have the motivation to speedrun, because speedrunning Painkiller is hard, and most of people who try to do that, find out that they sux at it, especially after watching vids from us.

So there you have it.

[quote="Ewil"]I don't think it's a good game to speedrun. Killing lots of enemies in order to proceed further tend to be boring after a while.[/quote]

This is the most ridiculous answer i have ever heard.. 
Painkiller, perhaps only second to Quake, is unlike any FPS game in this universe, that was meant for speedrunning in the first place! The developers were Quakeworld national champions or runners-up and exactly new what it takes to make a competitive game. Painkiller has all those end-level statistics just like Quake does and it is a fast paced game!
Killing monsters [b][i]as fast and most skilled as you can[/i][/b] is the very essence and explanation of why Painkiller is perfect for speedruns, and on top of that it has lots and lots of shortcuts!

Your argument is so weak.. I [b][i]think[/i][/b] that simply people do not have the motivation to speedrun, because speedrunning Painkiller is hard, and most of people who try to do that, find out that they sux at it, especially after watching vids from [b][i]us[/i][/b].

So there you have it.

Ewil

Edit history:

Ewil: 2010-12-20 11:28:14 pm

2010-12-20 11:27:55 pm

Sure, so you're basically saying that a game, where you go from one room to another, which opens after you usually kill a certain number of enemies is the best for speedrunning ? Please... Speedrunning should be about reaching the exit as fast as possible, not showing off your FPS skills and knowledge of spawn locations.

From what I've seen Painkiller does not have lots of shortcuts. There are some, but you can't really compare the numbers with Quake/Half-Life or some other games.

My argument is not weak, I was talking from years of experience of speedrunning Serious Sam, which is almost the same concept as Painkiller.

TheVoid

2010-12-21 01:37:14 am

Might as well post it in here. Back then I was a little busy with City on Water on Nightmare and got a 3:08, it wasn't a too good run so I never bothered to upload it but now I did. You can find it here.

KlVis

2010-12-21 06:07:19 am

Le Prince Noir

Quote from Ewil:

My argument is not weak, I was talking from years of experience of speedrunning Serious Sam, which is almost the same concept as Painkiller.

I have to disagree here for both games actually.
Serious Sam 1 speedrunning is a collection of sequence breaking tricks using rocket jumps and cannon jumps. The trigger system doesn't even force you to kill that much ennemies to go through. About Serious Sam 2 my experience is quite limited (pretty much only know your Coast 2 Cost run by heart) but I may see your point there.
Painkiller has the issue of ennemy counts to trigger events and invisible walls to restrain the player but still is allowing some nice shortcuts. You'll find that most PK speedruns are a combination of very fine trickjumps allowed by the engine physics and optimized battles at a fast pace.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-12-21 06:22:37 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-12-21 06:22:26 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-12-21 06:19:34 am

2010-12-21 06:14:18 am

I agree that Painkiller speedruns are interesting and I always eagerly watch anything new you guys upload. I'm also automatically suspicious of any argument based on what speedrunning 'should be about'; plenty of very different games have interesting and entertaining speedruns and I think it's generally a bad idea to just write games off as not interesting to run. At the very least I think statements like that one, Ewil, should be labelled as personal opinion; different people have different tastes and there's nothing wrong with that.

But, uh, Artas, there are more graceful ways to respond to someone expressing an opinion than to tell them it's ridiculous and that the real root of the issue is that other people aren't as good as you. Also, plenty of games have end-of-level stats, including times, and it really isn't an indicator at all of whether the game is good for speedrunning or not.

TheVoid: Looked like a decent run to my eyes, though I don't doubt that you or one of the others will tighten it up enough to make it look rubbish.

I agree that Painkiller speedruns are interesting and I always eagerly watch anything new you guys upload. I'm also automatically suspicious of any argument based on what speedrunning 'should be about'; plenty of very different games have interesting and entertaining speedruns and I think it's generally a bad idea to just write games off as not interesting to run. At the very least I think statements like that one, Ewil, should be labelled as personal opinion; different people have different tastes and there's nothing wrong with that.

But, uh, Artas, there are more graceful ways to respond to someone expressing an opinion than to tell them it's ridiculous and that the real root of the issue is that other people aren't as good as you. Also, plenty of games have end-of-level stats, including times, and it really isn't an indicator at all of whether the game is good for speedrunning or not.

TheVoid: Looked like a decent run to my eyes, though I don't doubt that you or one of the others will tighten it up enough to make it look rubbish.

Ewil

2010-12-21 08:51:10 am

Let me just clarify my statement a bit. I was answering AdHoc's question why there is no full speedrun yet (yeah it doesn't look like it, but why would I say all of a sudden the game is not good for speedrunning if it would be totally out of topic ? That doesn't really make sense) Also, Killing lots of enemies in order to proceed further tend to be boring after a while. was meant during speedrunning, not watching Smiley

Again, answering the question.

KlVis: Yeah, SS1 is not that much about triggers, but SS2 is all about them. I never said Painkiller runs are boring to watch, only to make. Or maybe it's just my opinion as I used to love to speedrun SS2, so as TheVoid, but we both eventually gave up improving it, because the game became boring due to it's dull concept.

Artas1984

Edit history:

Artas1984: 2010-12-21 11:04:07 pm

2010-12-21 11:03:26 pm

Well we all agree on the fact, that watching Painkiller speedruns is a lot more entertaining than most games, but doing them tends to be boring.

Painkiller, BTW, has quite a lot shortcuts, although certainly shortcuts are not it's main drive:

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/shortcuts/

As it was said here that "combination of very fine trickjumps allowed by the physics engine and optimized battles at a fast pace" make Painkiller that good

And Half-Life speedrun for me would be just too boring to watch in comparison with Painkiller or Serious Sam, just because it has got a slow pace, no matter how many shortcuts there might be.

Artas1984

Edit history:

Artas1984: 2010-12-21 11:18:09 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-21 11:18:00 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-21 11:17:51 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-21 11:17:31 pm

2010-12-21 11:10:03 pm

Quote from TheVoid:

Might as well post it in here. Back then I was a little busy with City on Water on Nightmare and got a 3:08, it wasn't a too good run so I never bothered to upload it but now I did. You can find it here.

Excellent. But where is your own channel?

ExplodingCabbage: wait just a second, you are the same guy from AVP2 servers?

TheVoid

2010-12-22 12:14:45 am

Quote from Artas1984:

Excellent. But where is your own channel?

That is from my channel, I'm going by the name Phanterramaglia on YouTube Wink

ExplodingCabbage

2010-12-22 06:54:39 am

Quote from Artas1984:

And Half-Life speedrun for me would be just too boring to watch in comparison with Painkiller or Serious Sam, just because it has got a slow pace, no matter how many shortcuts there might be.

Um, have you seen the Half Life speedrun? I may have massive disagreements with the scripting Spider-Waffle used but certainly I think it's a tad absurd to call it slow-paced.

Quote from Artas1984:

ExplodingCabbage: wait just a second, you are the same guy from AVP2 servers?

Assuming AVP2 = Alien Versus Predator 2, nope, I've never played it. Is there someone else called ExplodingCabbage?

If AVP means something else, you'll have to clarify,

Artas1984

Edit history:

Artas1984: 2010-12-26 10:14:35 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-26 10:14:02 pm

2010-12-26 10:11:23 pm

Something new - cyody (one of the true great single player masters, vetaran of DC forum) recently showed a video of Military Base speedrun:

http://centralgame.treditor.hu/sys/cyody/mb_tr410.wmv

Take a notice at the new shortcut, you have never seen before - a shortcut of climbing on top of the satellite ball!! Cyody found this shortcut quite some time ago, but now finally did a video with it.
I have tried this shortcut, but never succeeded.

You guys might want to try this new out and tell me how hard it is; for i know it is hard.

Of topic: ExplodingCabbage - there was a full clan "Exploding", nomater - AVP 2 officially is dead now. The servers are not maintained by Sierra anymore, only a community mod exists.

KlVis

2010-12-28 04:11:44 am

Le Prince Noir

The new tricks are indeed amazing and they're totally breaking the level!

Many may have missed it but I have a video of a C2L5 Town speedrun made by him coming from your site artas with an awesome route running on the rooftops and going OoB. I let you post the link if you want.

Artas1984

Edit history:

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:11:17 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:10:19 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:09:28 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:08:48 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:08:18 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:07:10 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:06:27 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:06:16 pm

Artas1984: 2010-12-28 07:05:46 pm

2010-12-28 07:04:55 pm

Quote from KlVis:

The new tricks are indeed amazing and they're totally breaking the level!

Many may have missed it but I have a video of a C2L5 Town speedrun made by him coming from your site artas with an awesome route running on the rooftops and going OoB. I let you post the link if you want.

Of course! I know that Town speedrun of his, only that the original link is dead in this site http://personal.inet.fi/cool/allaboutpainkiller/speedruns.html - so if you have a working one, post it here! And, btw, i do not own a site, i have my own FTP Painkiller server and am a mod of dreamcatcher forum and past supreme mod of now dead painkiller.gameamp forum, but i do not own fan sites. You must have meant AAPK - Risto's site.

KlVis

2010-12-29 09:29:43 am

Le Prince Noir

I meant FTP. I usually don't link files directly when it looks like they're just stored.
Now that you asked I decided to host it here. Links being dead on Risto's site, it's good that there are still a couple of mirrors.

Undead_Warrior

2011-01-02 07:50:30 am

I did a speedrun of Prison for 1:09
Here is a screenshot and I will upload the video later today

Undead_Warrior

2011-01-02 10:54:48 am

Here is the video:

KlVis

2011-01-02 02:42:30 pm

Le Prince Noir

I was surprised that despite of running out of the level Artas still had a couple of triggers to activate before finishing the run. Thought he would be stuck outside and that he only found one point to get back in. Pretty cool to see that this is not the case Smiley

Is there some sort of rules as to what you can bounce on when going out of bounds? Seems like you do it only on the top of the walls (even when not rendered at the end).

Artas1984

Edit history:

Artas1984: 2011-01-22 08:01:20 am

Artas1984: 2011-01-22 07:59:27 am

Artas1984: 2011-01-22 04:32:14 am

2011-01-17 05:58:11 am

Cyody is lazy to register here, so i will just post his other speedruns.

Forest 0:52:

http://centralgame.treditor.hu/sys/cyody/f52.wmv

Old Monastery 0:42:

http://centralgame.treditor.hu/sys/cyody/om42.wmv

Palace 4:08:

http://centralgame.treditor.hu/sys/cyody/p408.wmv

Castle 1:18:

http://centralgame.treditor.hu/sys/cyody/c118.wmv

Artas1984

Edit history:

Artas1984: 2011-02-07 05:58:14 pm

2011-01-21 01:22:16 am

New speedruns from me

Castle 1:25

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/castle.avi

Simply improved the old 1.31 time.

Enclave 1:09

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/enclave.avi

Made a 1:00 run in 2005, but could never beat that time again.

Swamp 0:59

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/swamp.avi

Made a 0:39 run in 2005, but could never beat that time again.

Ruins 0:54

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/ruins.avi

My best time so far. Last time it was 0:55 in 2005.

Tower 2:36

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/tower.avi

My best time so far. Last time it was 3:23 in 2005.

Cemetery 2:03

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/cemetery.avi

Simply remade Cemetery, but this time as a single segment

Babel 4:49

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/babel.avi

Simply remade Babel, but this time as a single segment.

City On Water 3:01

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/city_on_water.avi

Did you really think that i would allow anybody to beat me in this level where i originally found the secret tower shortcut that opens the door at the very end? He he, no way!

New speedruns from me

Castle 1:25

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/castle.avi

Simply improved the old 1.31 time.

Enclave 1:09

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/enclave.avi

Made a 1:00 run in 2005, but could never beat that time again.

Swamp 0:59

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/swamp.avi

Made a 0:39 run in 2005, but could never beat that time again.

Ruins 0:54

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/ruins.avi

My best time so far. Last time it was 0:55 in 2005.

Tower 2:36

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/tower.avi

My best time so far. Last time it was 3:23 in 2005.

Cemetery 2:03

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/cemetery.avi

Simply remade Cemetery, but this time as a single segment

Babel 4:49

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/babel.avi

Simply remade Babel, but this time as a single segment.

City On Water 3:01

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/city_on_water.avi

Did you really think that i would allow anybody to beat me in this level where i originally found the secret tower shortcut that opens the door at the very end? He he, no way!

KlVis

2011-01-21 01:09:13 pm

Le Prince Noir

Quote from Artas1984:

City On Water 3:01

http://artas1984.b4net.lt/games/painkiller/videos/artas1984/speedrun/city_on_water.avi

Did you really think that i would allow anybody to beat me in this level where i originally found the secret tower shortcut that opens the door at the very end? He he, no way!

You don't break the 3:00 mark despite bringing a new shortcut: this run will fall Smiley

You are running this level in original nightmare mode right? I was surprised to see souls at the end.

I have to confess that I stopped practicing for it and lost muscle memory for the bridge shortcut. I can't fraps it with high details so I am waiting for a "new system" to start playing it again. I would be sick to get a nice run with low quality video.

Artas1984

Edit history:

Artas1984: 2011-01-21 05:39:02 pm

Artas1984: 2011-01-21 05:35:37 pm

Artas1984: 2011-01-21 05:34:03 pm

2011-01-21 05:33:46 pm

New system will not help. I have Q6600 and GTX280 and PK still lags on fraps while recording on high settings. You need different software than fraps.

City On Water: of course i am running this on nightmare, as trauma is officially unavailable in chapter 5. Any chapter 5 run on trauma would not be SDA approved anyway.
I suggest you edit your words about "this run will fall" - that sounds immature to me.

KlVis

2011-01-21 06:15:14 pm

Le Prince Noir

Didn't mean to sound rude, just that I believed from the beginning 3:00 was possible without even going to the roof.
The last battle is the hardest part actually, I have never got any close to RJ's time on it. Even you are 7 seconds behind.

I thought I had seen a post from you saying that PK was supposed to be ran with kalme's mod for trauma or something. Too lazy to check back.

Your run and TheVoid's didn't look anything like mine in terms of graphics, I just hope to find a way to record it without 5fps slowdowns with the shotgun and random input lag.

Ewil

2011-01-22 04:14:55 am

I might be wrong, but I do vaguely remember fps issues with ragdoll physics, which PK use. You might want to turn that off if it's even possible.

Artas1984

Edit history:

Artas1984: 2011-01-22 07:49:50 am

Artas1984: 2011-01-22 04:33:47 am

Artas1984: 2011-01-22 04:29:16 am

Artas1984: 2011-01-22 04:26:47 am

2011-01-22 04:25:19 am

Quote from KlVis:

Didn't mean to sound rude, just that I believed from the beginning 3:00 was possible without even going to the roof.
The last battle is the hardest part actually, I have never got any close to RJ's time on it. Even you are 7 seconds behind.

I see you did not get the whole speedrun point. Going to the roof is the special shortcut that will allow you later to go directly into the final battle. That was my discovery. The other shortcut over the river bridge was found long ago by RJ19. Without going over the roof, the doors in the end will be locked. And again... What are you talking about 7 seconds me being behind? RJ19 has 3:23.

TheVoid

2011-01-22 04:41:05 am

Very nice stuff.

I also had a 0:54 for Ruins a while ago by the way.

Please run all levels so that it can be submitted to SDA Smiley