Ori and the Blind Forest

2015-03-27 11:32:00 am

Quote from plague006:

Quote from Wnbeser:

Okay so i got now first time after 10 minutes of trying so being at the top part of the lava stream is very relevant for success.

Edit: Also did another Horu left 25 run and got 14:58 time which means that i have 1/3 consistency !
Edit 2 Now gotten R3 Skip 4 times total !

If you remember: at what point did you release the bash button, and were you holding a direction while bashing or did you release (like speed-gliding)

I did this once by releasing direction completely after bash aka speed gliding. And did this with various early bash timings including instant release of bash with no aiming time.

Ikewolf

2015-03-27 02:36:25 pm

Just chocked away a WR run on literaly the last freakin rock. BibleThump

Wnbeser

2015-03-27 03:10:05 pm

Quote from Ikewolf:

Just chocked away a WR run on literaly the last freakin rock. BibleThump

Actually you can use charge flame to destroy that wall so you don't have to damage yourself with stomp into spikes.

Onin

2015-03-27 03:11:57 pm

Now he tells us. D:

r0ck

2015-03-27 03:26:41 pm

Being the random casual player who saves the world of speedruning, my life is complete now. Kappa

Wnbeser

2015-03-27 03:31:16 pm

Quote from r0ck:

Being the random casual player who saves the world of speedruning, my life is complete now. Kappa

Ye i didn't actually find this out it was this guy Kappa//

Vulajin

2015-03-27 03:33:20 pm

And today was the day we determined that we are all stupid as hell.

Evooki

2015-03-27 03:34:51 pm

GG everyone lets go home.

Ikewolf

2015-03-27 03:40:44 pm

http://www.twitch.tv/ikewolf/c/6413720 one more of those things

humantree

2015-03-27 05:00:23 pm

First up, apologies for the quality here, I wasn't streaming at the time and had to rely on the Xbox One's built in recording/uploading.

Someone mentioned earlier that if you stomp on your way back down through Sorrow's Pass, after getting the Sunstone, that you can get through wooden beams before they've loaded. Today I managed to pass through multiple things including wooden beams, fire, and a whole section of the ground and spikes. Not sure how reproducable this is, but it sure looked cool.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=ccdbee9ae0eedce4%21273

Evooki

2015-03-27 05:56:37 pm

Quote from humantree:

First up, apologies for the quality here, I wasn't streaming at the time and had to rely on the Xbox One's built in recording/uploading.

Someone mentioned earlier that if you stomp on your way back down through Sorrow's Pass, after getting the Sunstone, that you can get through wooden beams before they've loaded. Today I managed to pass through multiple things including wooden beams, fire, and a whole section of the ground and spikes. Not sure how reproducable this is, but it sure looked cool.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=ccdbee9ae0eedce4%21273

Yeah I said that and did exactly that too once before but I have no idea what triggers it.

Joka

2015-03-27 06:25:02 pm

Personal text

Finally weekend! Finally maybe some time to work on Ori \ Smiley

/

AdamPrimer

Edit history:

AdamPrimer: 2015-03-28 03:43:55 am

AdamPrimer: 2015-03-27 10:09:44 pm

AdamPrimer: 2015-03-27 07:54:47 pm

2015-03-27 06:48:25 pm

So my pulse theory crashed and burned, so here are a bunch more musings starting from scratch trying to look for and understand this trick.

Theorem 1: Ori is not immune during Bash at all.

Reasoning:
- If you are made immune to protect you from your projectile, how can you die
to the lava on the first frame of Bash?
- If you are not immune on the first frame to protect you from the projectile,
why would the developers make you immune to lava on subsequent frames?
- We know the middle of lava has no hitbox. You are in the lava for two frames,
if these occur entirely inside the lava, you'd be fine without being immune.
- There is nothing to suggest Bashing through lava was ever intended, or that
Ori handles this specially in any-way, Ori is still there just obscured by
lava.

Consequence:
- Either Ori is made immune only to projectiles, or the projectile is flagged
as "non-damaging" for a period of time once reflected.

Theorem 2: The physics/collisions run at a framerate slower than video
framerate, presumably 30FPS.

Reasoning:
- It would explain how you can fail on the second hitbox even though everything
looks perfect.
- Having physics/collisions running at a fixed framerate is not uncommon in
games due to video frame rate flucctuations. Especially at low framerates.
- You are in the lava for two frames before appearing still colliding with the
lava for one more frame. If collision is detected on this frame you die, if
it is not checked you live.
- Since we can clearly see Ori intersecting lava and not dying, and based on
Theorem 1 we presume she is not immune, the collision must never be checked
on that frame at all.

Consequence:
- There will always be an element of luck to this trick, or all lava skips.
Limiting the best we can do to 50% of the time assuming collisions are
checked at 30FPS.

Theorem 3: Ori does not teleport to the location of the projectile, instead,
she teleports towards the projectile at a fixed distance.

Reasoning:
- This is based on observation of Ikewolf's successes. Due to his luck with the
ball quite far back, you can see illumination (presumably Ori) to the left of
the projectile's location, suggesting Ori has teleported between the lava and
the projectile rather than exactly to the projectile's location.
- This wouldn't be a factor in L4, suggesting why L4 is so much more consistent
at this point in time.

Consequence:
- This suggests that Ori's position relative to the projectile may in-fact
matter. Being behind the projectile substantially will teleport you onto the
projectile (ideal if the projectile is very close to the lava), while being
above/below and in front of the projectile will teleport you in front of the
projectile (ideal if the projectile is quite far from the lava).

Theorem 4: a) A successful bash requires Ori to be manipulated to teleport very
close but not touching the lava, b) followed by two frames inside the lava
avoiding both hitboxes, c) followed by exiting in one frame where collisions
are not checked.

Reasoning:
- a) Is justified by Theorem 1 to justify not being able to touch the lava,
Theorem 3 to suggest manipulation outside of projectile location.
- b) Ori's Bash speed is non-uniform, going very fast and then slowing down.
This speed is necessary to get from outside the lava, past the first hitbox
in a single frame so there is no chance for the collision detection to occur.
Observations suggest this is possible. May make the trick "easier" if Ori is
in the standing animation as it is narrower. Not clear how Ori's hitbox
changes based on animation.
- c) Is justified based on Theorem 2, it seems you can die on frame 3 while you
still intersect the lava but only sometimes. Given we can rule out things
like projectile positioning at this point, it would suggest that the only
remaining answer is one based on an element of randomness.

I am not 100% confident all of the following are true. I am confident in Theorem 1,
Theorem 2 is mostly a "hack" to explain some edge case observations, Theorem 3
is based on observation that is extremely unclear due to all the particle effects,
Theorem 4 is mostly dependent on Theorem 1, Theorem 2 is a hack to make it work
(though something else might help explain that data instead) and Theorem 3 may h
elp manipulate it, but isn't a dependency.

So my pulse theory crashed and burned, so here are a bunch more musings starting from scratch trying to look for and understand this trick.

Theorem 1:  Ori is not immune during Bash at all.

Reasoning: 
- If you are made immune to protect you from your projectile, how can you die
  to the lava on the first frame of Bash?
- If you are not immune on the first frame to protect you from the projectile,
  why would the developers make you immune to lava on subsequent frames?
- We know the middle of lava has no hitbox. You are in the lava for two frames,
  if these occur entirely inside the lava, you'd be fine without being immune.
- There is nothing to suggest Bashing through lava was ever intended, or that
  Ori handles this specially in any-way, Ori is still there just obscured by
  lava.

Consequence:
- Either Ori is made immune only to projectiles, or the projectile is flagged
  as "non-damaging" for a period of time once reflected.

Theorem 2: The physics/collisions run at a framerate slower than video
framerate, presumably 30FPS.

Reasoning:
- It would explain how you can fail on the second hitbox even though everything
  looks perfect. 
- Having physics/collisions running at a fixed framerate is not uncommon in
  games due to video frame rate flucctuations. Especially at low framerates.
- You are in the lava for two frames before appearing still colliding with the
  lava for one more frame. If collision is detected on this frame you die, if
  it is not checked you live. 
- Since we can clearly see Ori intersecting lava and not dying, and based on
  Theorem 1 we presume she is not immune, the collision must never be checked
  on that frame at all.

Consequence:
- There will always be an element of luck to this trick, or all lava skips.
  Limiting the best we can do to 50% of the time assuming collisions are
  checked at 30FPS.

Theorem 3: Ori does not teleport to the location of the projectile, instead,
she teleports towards the projectile at a fixed distance.

Reasoning:
- This is based on observation of Ikewolf's successes. Due to his luck with the
  ball quite far back, you can see illumination (presumably Ori) to the left of
  the projectile's location, suggesting Ori has teleported between the lava and
  the projectile rather than exactly to the projectile's location.
- This wouldn't be a factor in L4, suggesting why L4 is so much more consistent
  at this point in time.

Consequence:
- This suggests that Ori's position relative to the projectile may in-fact
  matter. Being behind the projectile substantially will teleport you onto the
  projectile (ideal if the projectile is very close to the lava), while being
  above/below and in front of the projectile will teleport you in front of the
  projectile (ideal if the projectile is quite far from the lava).

Theorem 4: a) A successful bash requires Ori to be manipulated to teleport very
close but not touching the lava, b) followed by two frames inside the lava
avoiding both hitboxes, c) followed by exiting in one frame where collisions
are not checked.

Reasoning:
- a) Is justified by Theorem 1 to justify not being able to touch the lava,
  Theorem 3 to suggest manipulation outside of projectile location.
- b) Ori's Bash speed is non-uniform, going very fast and then slowing down.
  This speed is necessary to get from outside the lava, past the first hitbox
  in a single frame so there is no chance for the collision detection to occur.
  Observations suggest this is possible. May make the trick "easier" if Ori is
  in the standing animation as it is narrower. Not clear how Ori's hitbox
  changes based on animation.
- c) Is justified based on Theorem 2, it seems you can die on frame 3 while you
  still intersect the lava but only sometimes. Given we can rule out things
  like projectile positioning at this point, it would suggest that the only
  remaining answer is one based on an element of randomness.

I am not 100% confident all of the following are true. I am confident in Theorem 1, 
Theorem 2 is mostly a "hack" to explain some edge case observations, Theorem 3 
is based on observation that is extremely unclear due to all the particle effects, 
Theorem 4 is mostly dependent on Theorem 1, Theorem 2 is a hack to make it work 
(though something else might help explain that data instead) and Theorem 3 may h
elp manipulate it, but isn't a dependency.

VincentX9

2015-03-27 11:59:07 pm

So we talked about this a little when cel was having all those sick runs last night. I really think its interesting that to my knowledge every lava skip is successful when you start your bash with forward momentum. I've never been able to drop on a bash and lava skip, even on L4, but that could just be me.

On a sidenote, I'm doing my first streamed run so wish me luck Cheesy

twitch.tv/vincentx9

Fragmaster01

2015-03-28 12:04:54 am

Wiggle wiggle

Quote from AdamPrimer:

So my pulse theory crashed and burned...

Ahem. NEEEEERRRRRRDDDDSSS.

Sorry, I had to. I am greatly amused by the sheer amount of theorycrafting though. Keep it up, and go fast. Go so fast.

Swale

2015-03-28 07:18:08 am

Hello everyone,
I'm not a great speed runner but I managed to find a consistent way to time my level up and skip the right corruption room in Gimso Tree.
I'll try to explain my route so you guys can use it and beat this game even harder Wink

Hope it'll help.
I'm not doing Iceless, so maybe it'll change for Iceless user Sad

http://imgur.com/pezFlW8&fkwu62k&QPj2knG&YpN6TfB&sAC8PDe&6minwiM&yOFdK63&XkddlDd&Jf2n39o&jQsvnwk&NWHD2sZ&tiAANt1&C2Ws1LZ&0qTdlF8&NGxhAma&Z91f4Fb&BIn9gHj&AUNKe0P&qdhf15i#18
Okay I'm not familiar with Imgur so I hope you can see all the Slides.
If not, i'll try to make an album but apparently right now I can't.

I can't make a video / stream. Ori is killing my computer's Ram ^^.

I hope it is helpfull !!!

Theodrassil

2015-03-28 08:05:22 am

Made an album of some of my R3 Skip successes incase it helps anyone with getting more consistent at it
http://imgur.com/a/QHayj

WheretIB

2015-03-28 08:13:37 am

I would suggest using 'dotPeek' or some other de-compiler on the 'Ori\ori_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp.dll' containing the game logic code.

SeinBashAttack.cs contains the logic for the Bash ability, from what I can tell:
- When you bash, MovePlayerToTargetAndCreateEffect() teleports you to the selected enemy/projectile if you're not on the ground
- If you have the 'Bash through enemies' ability, you get 0.5s invincibility from enemy/projectile damage (BeginBashThroughEnemies), otherwise you get only 0.2s (UpdateBashingState)

SeinDamageReciever.cs contains the logic of taking damage (OnRecieveDamage):
- There is separate invincibility for 'enemies/projectiles' and for 'everything except drowning'
- If the damage amount is large, the invincibility is ignored

DamageDealer.cs is a collision/trigger component that deals damage to player from Physics engine updates.

It's still hard to tell in what frames the different events are processed.

Wnbeser

2015-03-28 10:09:59 am

Ginso tree miniboss #2 fast

Ikewolf

2015-03-28 12:08:47 pm

welp just got a 48:27, will upload one youtube asap

plague006

2015-03-28 12:21:38 pm

Quote from Ikewolf:

welp just got a 48:27, will upload one youtube asap

So much better than winning a race. Cheesy

Heroman

2015-03-28 02:07:58 pm

Quote from Ikewolf:

welp just got a 48:27, will upload one youtube asap

Grats dude! Sub 50!! I'm still improving my 1:15... got 1:05 but won't bother uploading it. Looking forward to watching your run Smiley

Ikewolf

Edit history:

Ikewolf: 2015-03-28 04:05:43 pm

Ikewolf: 2015-03-28 04:05:33 pm

2015-03-28 04:04:43 pm

Fast run :

Wnbeser

Edit history:

Wnbeser: 2015-03-29 05:47:32 am

Wnbeser: 2015-03-28 05:50:19 pm

Wnbeser: 2015-03-28 05:38:32 pm

Wnbeser: 2015-03-28 05:35:56 pm

Wnbeser: 2015-03-28 05:20:29 pm

2015-03-28 05:19:13 pm

I found out OOB From Horu R1 to R3 end .
This is a alternative for the insanely hard R3 skip.
This saves around 2:18 compared to doing this normal way.

EDIT: This is only 50 seconds slower than first try R3 skip

Celestics

2015-03-28 05:28:46 pm

Gotta go forward!

Follow-up to Wnbeser's find, with a strat.
http://www.twitch.tv/celestics/c/6422364