OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

2006-08-14 02:48:15 pm

torch slug since 2006

Thanks for the tip... But it worked before on VLC media player... Or can i download the H.264 codec to.. say... Windows media player?

TheFrigz

2006-08-14 03:11:04 pm

INSERT TEXT HERE

Personally, I prefer watching them emulated, because the file size is incredibly small, especially when compared to those big .avi's.

DJS

2006-08-14 03:28:58 pm

torch slug since 2006

OK.. but i fixed the problem.. I just downloaded the H.264 codec.. done!

SeraphicRadiance

2006-08-14 10:09:57 pm

Hmm, about those .m64 or whatever files simply "telling link how to move" in the emu, how does it account for random enemy and item placement? there has to be more to it than that.

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-08-14 10:24:49 pm

2006-08-14 10:23:47 pm

He's back!

Quote:

Hmm, about those .m64 or whatever files simply "telling link how to move" in the emu, how does it account for random enemy and item placement? there has to be more to it than that.

You should read the FAQ at Bisqwit's. A game is simply a calculator, a computer is a calculator,so when the power or the reset button is hit, it'll go back to the exact same point EVERY TIME. Calculators are always predicatable and will always pruduce the same results no matter what, thats assuming it starts from the exact same place every time which is what a game does. That was just a an overview. The problem is that many randomizations are done on a frame by frame basis and so will give the impression of being completely random, which is something that could never relistically be manipulated on a console.

Wheels

2006-08-15 12:04:50 am

I'm the keeper of Time.

Quote:

You should read the FAQ at Bisqwit's. A game is simply a calculator, a computer is a calculator,so when the power or the reset button is hit, it'll go back to the exact same point EVERY TIME. Calculators are always predicatable and will always pruduce the same results no matter what, thats assuming it starts from the exact same place every time which is what a game does. That was just a an overview. The problem is that many randomizations are done on a frame by frame basis and so will give the impression of being completely random, which is something that could never relistically be manipulated on a console.

That was pretty well said.

VorpalEdge

2006-08-15 02:24:50 am

welcome to the machine

AKA speaks truth.

KD

Edit history:

KD: 2006-08-15 06:09:06 am

2006-08-15 06:05:32 am

Jealousy™

Randomization needs a seed.

When you tell the computer you need a random number, it usually performs a complex mathematical function on say.. the current number of milliseconds the world has existed.

When everything is exactly the same as the last time (if it uses time, you could just put the time in the m64 file, but I don't think it does. Aka says frame numbers?), then so are the seeds, and so will the random numbers.

AKA indeed speaks truth.

UchihaSasuke

2006-08-15 07:13:03 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

what about stuff like track generators in a racing game? could a random track be reproduced exactly if someone recorded the input performed from boot-up to playing the track and then laoded the savestate up to the same point?

L4yer

2006-08-15 11:43:33 am

Quote:

what about stuff like track generators in a racing game? could a random track be reproduced exactly if someone recorded the input performed from boot-up to playing the track and then laoded the savestate up to the same point?

Everything random is based off frame number when the game is started up.

Kazooie

Edit history:

Kazooie: 2006-08-15 07:59:56 pm

2006-08-15 07:59:36 pm

Zelda Rulez!

I have maked few videos but youtube is down now Cry

I doesn't have much time in few weeks because I have driving school after my normal school. I have only 1 1/2 hours after my driving school Cry

so I don't have much time to play oot or practice my run :-/

Mickey_Mage

2006-08-15 09:17:10 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

I hope TSA posts those redos of those 2 segments soon, see how he did.

VorpalEdge

Edit history:

VorpalEdge: 2006-08-16 03:53:30 am

2006-08-16 03:50:22 am

welcome to the machine

In some games I know of, the seed was the time when you pressed Start on the title screen. (Golden Sun: TLA)

In others, the seed was predictable in the beginning because it used a standard starting number. But then every time you did something that required the rng, the rng called up a new number. And the state of the rng was persistent throughout the entire game. This is how the two US fire emblem gba games work, I believe.

Either way, it's based on input from the player, whenever or whatever it happens to be.

So yeah, pressing the same buttons on the same frames generates the same result.

FYI, there is no "true" random number generator in computing that doesn't involve measuring something in nature. The closest thing is pseudo-random generators (like the Mersenne Twister) when given seeds as obscure as the current system time in milliseconds.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2006-08-16 09:59:35 am

2006-08-16 09:59:24 am

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For more on that topic, read the Secret of Mana topic over at Bisqwit's. Fabian did a good job of recovering how the RNG works there, and the subsequent posts show how it is used in the game. The concepts will be similar in other games.

Also, some games use the user input as a source of entropy for random numbers, RPGs for instance. Others might even call the internal clock of the console, as we know the PS2 has an internal clock that runs even if switched off.

alexpenev

Edit history:

alexpenev: 2006-08-16 04:49:03 pm

2006-08-16 04:47:10 pm

Kazooie or anyone who can answer:
can the Gerudo-Cucco jump be done with a Deku Stick? (no bomb, no bombchu, no sword).
I can do the "big jump" occasionally, but my timing must be really bad... I've missed it about 20 times. Maybe you can do it on your first try and tell me if it's possible? Smiley

KD

Edit history:

KD: 2006-08-16 07:27:04 pm

2006-08-16 06:56:17 pm

Jealousy™

I will try it right away, answer in a moment, but also I wish to inform you that timing isn't the sole issue.

If you get a perfect jump at a perfect angle it's much easier to get on even if you don't time it perfectly (just a full jump isn't enough).

[Edit]

10 broken deku sticks, 5 angry cuckos, and 40-some attempts later I can say that this is indeed possible. On a side note, I'm curious, how would one go about not having a sword as child link?

AKA

2006-08-16 08:37:17 pm

He's back!

I did a ruppee run for fun on emu Today and I got 2:04 which is actually slower than the TAS, but slow side hopping and some slightly dodgy movements cost me time, but this is what I would theoretically do if I was taking blind risks. I think the side hopping cost anywhere between 2-3 seconds overall. Based on that I think 1:59 is possible and 1:55 if you can get uber lucky with the ruppee drops in the bushes.

Mickey_Mage

2006-08-16 11:56:51 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

That was really good. It's hard already we know to do it as fast as the TAS, so really great job. You did things that the TAS didnt even do which sped some parts up slightly.

TSA

2006-08-17 04:39:28 am

Retired

I'm busy with Camp Hyrule right now...I haven't even compressed the Segment 4 redo...sorry, this weekend I'll upload it, and Segment 6 redo.

hiddenGamer

2006-08-17 05:40:52 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

I remade my video titled "Shadow Early - New Way". It's now better quality and I also included me walking the seam instead of just getting onto the seam.

except you should of done it in the daytime but good job anyways

Fail Boat

Edit history:

Fail Boat: 2006-08-17 06:40:37 am

2006-08-17 05:47:35 am

forum lurker

Quote:

except you should of done it in the daytime but good job anyways

Wow...

Does it really matter?

You can see what's happening perfectly.

What you said is as stupid as saying "you should have made it 1 second longer but good job anyways".

DK64_MASTER

2006-08-17 07:15:15 am

I'm back after 2 weeks of vacation. England was fun, Paris was better! :).

So there hasn't been much news except for GBs run, a giant bittorrent flamewar, a new way of doing shadow early (nice vids FK), TSA getting his segments done (will download and watch them later), and some more testing with BA+Ganon Early.

Did I miss anything? Is there anything that needs to be tried out?

Kazooie

Edit history:

Kazooie: 2006-08-17 09:24:04 am

2006-08-17 09:23:42 am

Zelda Rulez!

Quote:

I'm back after 2 weeks of vacation. England was fun, Paris was better! :).

So there hasn't been much news except for GBs run, a giant bittorrent flamewar, a new way of doing shadow early (nice vids FK), TSA getting his segments done (will download and watch them later), and some more testing with BA+Ganon Early.

Did I miss anything? Is there anything that needs to be tried out?

No those are all I think Wink

AKA - very good rupee run 8)

Can somebody please tell me how you guys are gonna do that hover glitch to ganon's castle with light arrow on B? You don't have hammer or sword so how you think gonna do that?

Fail Boat

2006-08-17 10:57:34 am

forum lurker

I've been trying to beat Fire Temple (except the boss) as a child all day. The farthest I can get is into the room where you push the block on to the lava jet, then I die because the timer is up. Is there a way to get the timer to not go away or something similar?

If anyone is wondering how to get into the Fire Temple as a child, I made a video of it earlier.

Kazooie

Edit history:

Kazooie: 2006-08-17 11:09:59 am

2006-08-17 11:08:38 am

Zelda Rulez!

Quote:

I've been trying to beat Fire Temple (except the boss) as a child all day. The farthest I can get is into the room where you push the block on to the lava jet, then I die because the timer is up. Is there a way to get the timer to not go away or something similar?

If anyone is wondering how to get into the Fire Temple as a child, I made a video of it earlier.

In my run I need about 7 hearts to get that room done
In my run I'll collect 8 heart contairnes and with those you can beat fire temple easily

Fluffy - I have entered fire temple as a child in same way than you fluffy and it's easiest way too Wink

Fire temple is easy to beat all way to the boss but there you need good hover glitch skill with bombs and bomchus
I have beated fire temple all way to the boss 8)