OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

TSA

2006-06-14 05:17:01 am

Retired

No attempts yesterday or today. Too busy with work.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-14 11:37:05 am

2006-06-14 06:12:26 am

Zelda Scientist®

Did you know that you can climb that seam to the right that is by the Great Fairy Fountain and is directly adjacent to the climbable wall? cool stuff, very hard seam though.

nm I will post screens... DM (one w/ boulders) seam is easy with proper alignment.

Align the seam between your feet EXACTLY like this:

Then align your B button w/ the seam so when Z is held, it lines up perfectly like this:

Do that and you are almost assured to get up the seam quickly and easily.

Ok then, to get into the Fairy Fountain 100% of the time, do this:

Go Stand on top of this white mark:

... the edge (which you should easily be able to see...) is right to the left of it... dont walk past it and off the edge accidentally. Once you are standing on it then you are in the right position.

Now, align the B button so it is pocketed by the edges of the cliff like so:

Then backwalk off the edge and then jumpslash as soon as you have fallen far enough to where you don't pop back up onto the mountain. Make sure that during and after the jumpslash you are holding forwards on the joystick. If you jumpslash too soon, you will land on top of the ground again, so you can try over until you have waited long enough to jumpslash and still be falling. Then you will make it into the Fairy Fountain 100% of the time.

I've found a similar thing for the eyes in dodongo's cavern as well so that you can pull it off 85-100% of the time. If anyone wants I can put those up too. It is a different texture than in the vid I have up.
-----------------

MWL - Oh, that's easy. As soon as you start pushing the block... hold back on the joystick. Then as soon as the block stops moving (LITERALLY AS SOON AS IT STOPS... INSTANTLY) press forwards on the joystick. Link pops back and then pops forwards again and pushes a little sooner than he normally does. Saves a few frames when done perfectly.

Did you know that you can climb that seam to the right that is by the Great Fairy Fountain and is directly adjacent to the climbable wall? cool stuff, very hard seam though.

nm I will post screens... DM (one w/ boulders) seam is easy with proper alignment.

Align the seam between your feet EXACTLY like this:
[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Acryte/snap0025.jpg[/IMG]

Then align your B button w/ the seam so when Z is held, it lines up perfectly like this:
[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Acryte/snap0026.jpg[/IMG]

Do that and you are almost assured to get up the seam quickly and easily.

Ok then, to get into the Fairy Fountain 100% of the time, do this:

Go Stand on top of this white mark:
[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Acryte/snap0029.jpg[/IMG]

... the edge (which you should easily be able to see...) is right to the left of it... dont walk past it and off the edge accidentally. Once you are standing on it then you are in the right position.

Now, align the B button so it is pocketed by the edges of the cliff like so:
[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Acryte/snap0030.jpg[/IMG]

Then backwalk off the edge and then jumpslash as soon as you have fallen far enough to where you don't pop back up onto the mountain. Make sure that during and after the jumpslash you are holding forwards on the joystick. If you jumpslash too soon, you will land on top of the ground again, so you can try over until you have waited long enough to jumpslash and still be falling. Then you will make it into the Fairy Fountain 100% of the time.

I've found a similar thing for the eyes in dodongo's cavern as well so that you can pull it off 85-100% of the time. If anyone wants I can put those up too. It is a different texture than in the vid I have up.
-----------------

MWL - Oh, that's easy. As soon as you start pushing the block... hold back on the joystick. Then as soon as the block stops moving (LITERALLY AS SOON AS IT STOPS... INSTANTLY) press forwards on the joystick. Link pops back and then pops forwards again and pushes a little sooner than he normally does. Saves a few frames when done perfectly.

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-14 08:56:40 am

2006-06-14 06:41:10 am

Acryte, is this soft block-pushing? How is it executed?

Also, any more developments on that Shadow shortcut? I haven't been able to find a wall that I could slash completely through, even with the levitation cheat. Sad

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-14 11:09:21 am

2006-06-14 10:20:09 am

Zelda Scientist®

;p I said how in the above post. It's right at the end:

Quote:

MWL - Oh, that's easy. As soon as you start pushing the block... hold back on the joystick. Then as soon as the block stops moving (LITERALLY AS SOON AS IT STOPS... INSTANTLY) press forwards on the joystick. Link pops back and then pops forwards again and pushes a little sooner than he normally does. Saves a few frames when done perfectly.

Sorry, I generally try to just edit recent posts w/ new stuff instead of making new posts, so you may have missed that.

Actually I haven't been at shadow for like 2 days, IDK. I gave up till I think of something that I can try out. I mean, I already tried doing a jumpslash and having a bomb blow into me (which still may work IDK, maaybe I wasn't doing it good enough), doing hover groundjump jumpslashes, using Ocarina w/ the above stuff, hyper boosts, levitation, and numerous ideas to try and trick the lower room from loading properly. Negative 100%. I'll probably return to it in like... a few days to a week. Right now I'm just all over the place trying out little things here and there you know? My advise... utilize (or try to utilize) any unique objects you are given. OoT is thoroughly punishable in that regard, time and time again. You have that hookshot box (though I can't seem to use it to get behind the wall), the wooden thing over on the wall (which is too far away to be of use, and you can't even stand on top of), the silver rupees (maybe there is some glitch you can do w/ them... though I'm skeptical since you can't even Ztarget them, nor can you do anything but touch them... though getting all of them does activate a cutscene... remember you have that at your disposal, maybe if you could glitch it so you can be far away and grab the last one and fall down the hole while the cutscene goes to see if it loads down below properly), there is the corner w/ the door (which is seemingly vulnerable...), a chest in the other room (This is something worth investigating), no acute angles (though there are corners that you can try to hyper boost in), and that giant twirling razor statue (VERY UNIQUE, PRIME CANDIDATE for finding anomalous behavior and tricks...). So far I find nothing special about the rotating statue... though it's blades can hit you and supply a large range of movement that makes the damage acessible from almost anywhere in the room... and there are all the pices of wood on the floor (though I am doubtful that anything would amount from them...). Then there is down below... you have a block but it is slightly below that offset area and there is a grabbable wire mesh on the side, thoug it is theoretically ungrabbable), you have yet another set of corners, 1 seam where the iron bars thing comes together w/ the ground which when walked next to makes link twitch (so it's not a perfect connection between the two) and then you have those bars... which I have tried making acute angles w/ like th egerudo fence but with no positive results. We also have that mask thing on the wall that says crap and can be Z targetted. we have noblocks (except one we can't push and doesn't have an offset.... and is below us), no armos, no corners we can backflip into like in lake hylia (i already tested them all), no ladders, no graspable ledges besides the one at the top of the wire mesh both below and above (though the 1 above has you face the wrong direction anyways and is thusly out of the question...), no enemies to utilize, nothing that has been known to let us pass through walls. Nor is there anything of that nature in the previous room so that we could get into that area w/out textures and hope it is like the lost woods where it won't load down below...
That's my present synopsis of the area.

I also went to ZC and went down the list off all the tricks there and looked to see if any of them were relevant (which pretty much none of them were lol). So, we need to find something new in order to progress w/ the trick. Technically, is this void in zelda considered outside the bounds of the level? Because the bounds are probably the point in which it respawns you... technically, though this is something you want to know because it greatly limits the possibilities of what you are trying to do. This means there is alot less stuff you are going to be testing (like everything except for the loading area glitch testing). So, before you waste you life away trying to get through a wall, we should probably get a proper ruling as to the bounds of the game and the legitness of said trick even before it is found (if it is found at all).

;p I said how in the above post. It's right at the end:
[quote]MWL - Oh, that's easy. As soon as you start pushing the block... hold back on the joystick. Then as soon as the block stops moving (LITERALLY AS SOON AS IT STOPS... INSTANTLY) press forwards on the joystick. Link pops back and then pops forwards again and pushes a little sooner than he normally does. Saves a few frames when done perfectly.[/quote]
Sorry, I generally try to just edit recent posts w/ new stuff instead of making new posts, so you may have missed that.

Actually I haven't been at shadow for like 2 days, IDK. I gave up till I think of something that I can try out. I mean, I already tried doing a jumpslash and having a bomb blow into me (which still may work IDK, maaybe I wasn't doing it good enough), doing hover groundjump jumpslashes, using Ocarina w/ the above stuff, hyper boosts, levitation, and numerous ideas to try and trick the lower room from loading properly. Negative 100%. I'll probably return to it in like... a few days to a week. Right now I'm just all over the place trying out little things here and there you know? My advise... utilize (or try to utilize) any unique objects you are given. OoT is thoroughly punishable in that regard, time and time again. You have that hookshot box (though I can't seem to use it to get behind the wall), the wooden thing over on the wall (which is too far away to be of use, and you can't even stand on top of), the silver rupees (maybe there is some glitch you can do w/ them... though I'm skeptical since you can't even Ztarget them, nor can you do anything but touch them... though getting all of them does activate a cutscene... remember you have that at your disposal, maybe if you could glitch it so you can be far away and grab the last one and fall down the hole while the cutscene goes to see if it loads down below properly), there is the corner w/ the door (which is seemingly vulnerable...), a chest in the other room (This is something worth investigating), no acute angles (though there are corners that you can try to hyper boost in), and that giant twirling razor statue (VERY UNIQUE, PRIME CANDIDATE for finding anomalous behavior and tricks...). So far I find nothing special about the rotating statue... though it's blades can hit you and supply a large range  of movement that makes the damage acessible from almost anywhere in the room... and there are all the pices of wood on the floor (though I am doubtful that anything would amount from them...). Then there is down below... you have a block but it is slightly below that offset area and there is a grabbable wire mesh on the side, thoug it is theoretically ungrabbable), you have yet another set of corners, 1 seam where the iron bars thing comes together w/ the ground which when walked next to makes link twitch (so it's not a perfect connection between the two) and then you have those bars... which I have tried making acute angles w/ like th egerudo fence but with no positive results. We also have that mask thing on the wall that says crap and can be Z targetted. we have noblocks (except one we can't push and doesn't have an offset.... and is below us), no armos, no corners we can backflip into like in lake hylia (i already tested them all), no ladders, no graspable ledges besides the one at the top of the wire mesh both below and above (though the 1 above has you face the wrong direction anyways and is thusly out of the question...), no enemies to utilize, nothing that has been known to let us pass through walls. Nor is there anything of that nature in the previous room so that we could get into that area w/out textures and hope it is like the lost woods where it won't load down below...
That's my present synopsis of the area.

I also went to ZC and went down the list off all the tricks there and looked to see if any of them were relevant (which pretty much none of them were lol). So, we need to find something new in order to progress w/ the trick. Technically, is this void in zelda considered outside the bounds of the level? Because the bounds are probably the point in which it respawns you... technically, though this is something you want to know because it greatly limits the possibilities of what you are trying to do. This means there is alot less stuff you are going to be testing (like everything except for the loading area glitch testing). So, before you waste you life away trying to get through a wall, we should probably get a proper ruling as to the bounds of the game and the legitness of said trick even before it is found (if it is found at all).

Manocheese

2006-06-15 12:01:50 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Wait, that seam on Death Mountain is new? Where is the one we were using before?

Fail Boat

Edit history:

Fail Boat: 2006-06-15 02:22:07 am

2006-06-15 02:21:38 am

forum lurker

The one above is at the top of death mountain. Which is where the owl, entrance to Great Fairy Fountain, and the Biggoron are. If I read correctly.

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-15 02:38:00 am

2006-06-15 02:36:42 am

That was a well-written post on glitch-hunting. You're the expert, and I'm no comparison when it comes to that.

Is there a known method of glitching through the gate to Death Mountain Trail without talking to the guard?

FIERCELINKMASTER

2006-06-15 02:47:00 am

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

That was a well-written post on glitch-hunting. You're the expert, and I'm no comparison when it comes to that.

Is there a known method of glitching through the gate to Death Mountain Trail without talking to the guard?

None that were successful.

TSA

2006-06-17 05:14:21 am

Retired

Still no segment. I'm not going to be doing the water skip, either. It's too difficult to pull off consitantly, and sometimes it is not even faster depending on where the platform is.

I keep messing up on the deku stick jump to the torch with the jumpslash. I keep hitting too low on first attempts. Pissing me off because I was hitting them consitently earlier.

Giving up for the day, my thumbs hurt. But I am getting better at the segment. Perhaps I'll get it done this weekend, don't know.

Acryte

2006-06-17 06:26:16 am

Zelda Scientist®

Ok TSA, no prob. I realized that that once I got there (and was still satisfied) I also missed it a couple times, but then I found out how to get it to work better. You want to have enough horizontal movement as you can. horizontal is more important than vertical movement. Just rolljump and then wait till you get dang close and then do the jumpslash (and it is easier to have your sword out before the jump... I usually draw it when he is about to grab the block as he jumps up). Hope that helps. If you aren't getting it, wait till you get closer. It's easy to practice though because you can climb up and try it over and over again.

Manocheese

2006-06-17 06:56:12 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I actually find it easier to jumpslash just before the peak of my jump.

TSA

2006-06-17 08:20:16 am

Retired

Yeah, it's about doing it between right before the peak and at the peak. After the peak, it doesn't work.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-17 11:04:13 am

2006-06-17 08:54:23 am

Zelda Scientist®

interesting, I do it on the way down. Either way I guess, as long as you find it consistent. Grin

at what point do you stop the timer? at the killing blow? If that is the case, Cygnus got 5:14 from the start of control, to the killing blow (just so you know what the last segment's time was).

Wow, going back, I'm pretty decent at the water platform skip. Probably 50-75%

TSA

2006-06-17 10:44:39 am

Retired

Just a note, I was finishing in the 5:20-5:30 range on the timer, but I don't remember when the clock started when I gained control, probably 5-10 seconds in. I'm not sure what time I should be getting on this segment for gaining control of Link till final blow of Gohma. I heard the TAS was getting 4:45? Ugh, losing bye over 30 seconds to it -_-. Then again, I haven't completed an attempt without a major mistake. So I think I can get it to 5:15-5:20 for sure.

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-17 11:10:40 pm

2006-06-17 11:10:27 pm

Are we talking about the Deku Tree time?

If you begin the timer when Link gains control and stop when he deals the final blow to Gohma, the TAS time was about 16,150 frames, or 4'29" with at least four possible improvements:

* Getting rid of the subscreen delay
* Backwalking straight instead of diagonally
* Using Acryte's tip for the Deku Scrub's room
* Jumpslashing through the web and landing on the switch
* Performing a possible Skullwalltula boost from 1F->2F

So about 4'20" is optimal for a TAS given the current route.

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2006-06-18 12:38:43 am

2006-06-18 12:29:51 am

Retired

Alright, then I don't come close.

No water skip. None of the stuff you mentioned in your post (Acryte's Deku Scrub room strategy didn't always work on my run, so I just did normal way...you don't lost but maybe .5 seconds).

Also, I got fed up with the Jump Slash Torch. So I pushed the block twice. I lose 2 seconds, yeah. But this run is never going to get done if I have to keep retrying at this damn part.

EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT, I get there, and I do the SAME THING everytime, and it never works on first try. I'll get it on 2nd - 5th tries. It's not worth it in my eyes. It's pure luck. If somebody can do it ten times in a row, without spending more than 3 seconds aligning on the block each attempt, I'll redo the segment.

Anyway, segment 3 done. Compressing, then I'll upload.

I also have a funny bug I found that's useless, but funny.

5:10 is the time I get in the Deku Tree. I can see with the Water Skip, if I got the optimal position (platform coming at me), the Torch Slash, landing on the switch and the Deku Scrub Room...I can see getting below 5 mins. But good luck spending a year on just this segment Wink

Alright, then I don't come close.

No water skip.  None of the stuff you mentioned in your post (Acryte's Deku Scrub room strategy didn't always work on my run, so I just did normal way...you don't lost but maybe .5 seconds).

Also, I got fed up with the Jump Slash Torch.  So I pushed the block twice.  I lose 2 seconds, yeah.  But this run is never going to get done if I have to keep retrying at this damn part.

EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT, I get there, and I do the SAME THING everytime, and it never works on first try.  I'll get it on 2nd - 5th tries.  It's not worth it in my eyes.  It's pure luck.  If somebody can do it ten times in a row, without spending more than 3 seconds aligning on the block each attempt, I'll redo the segment.

Anyway, segment 3 done.  Compressing, then I'll upload.

I also have a funny bug I found that's useless, but funny.

5:10 is the time I get in the Deku Tree.  I can see with the Water Skip, if I got the optimal position (platform coming at me), the Torch Slash, landing on the switch and the Deku Scrub Room...I can see getting below 5 mins.  But good luck spending a year on just this segment ;)

whacko_jacko

2006-06-18 03:37:15 am

That was very entertaining!

Good job and keep it up Grin

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-06-18 04:09:18 am

2006-06-18 04:08:34 am

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Well I see there's room for improvement here and there.

Overall it was pretty good. Smiley

TSA

2006-06-18 10:02:30 am

Retired

Still over a minute faster than my 4:57 time. Shows how much time you can really pick up when you can segment these things. I probably would beat my 4:57 time by 20 or more mins if I kept to the same route and segmented.

AKA

2006-06-18 11:45:59 am

He's back!

OK I watched the run and I have to say that it isn't a worthy segment.

1: Good movement to the ladder.

2: Urgh this is annoying, running all the way up to the door looked bad, my advice would be to alternate between sidesteps and rolls.

3: Far too cautious when doing the navi skip at the door, I can walk up to it and nail it about 85% of the time.

4: Try getting closer to the shrub when you deflect the nut, it would save a good second or so.

5: This is confusing why did you lock onto the ladder, its much quicker to manually hit it and run to it during the cutscene, plus the bash looked bad.

6: That is nothing like the line for landing on the switch or the platform.

7: I discovered a small trick recently that saves a few fractions of a second and that rolling past the bad and getting hit in order to get a speed boost.

8: The lining up was too cautious for the block skip plus its not even necesscary to line up again after you've landed on the block.

9: I think its better to light the torch on the right first instead of doing it last.

10: Funny that I've can never seem to pull of the trick on the block first time, which is why I'll push it three times.

11: Not very good deku room to say the least

12: I fairy certain that Gohma could be done quicker than that as you pause at certain bits for no reason

---------

Overall this isn't great and definitley needs to be re-done. I thnk my beta run was faster than that, although you or someone else can verify for me. My vid shows a perfect demonstration of how to do the last deku room.

Time was generally lost at

1: walkway upto first door
2: web trick
3: Last deku room

OK I watched the run and I have to say that it isn't a worthy segment.

1: Good movement to the ladder.

2: Urgh this is annoying, running all the way up to the door looked bad, my advice would be to alternate between sidesteps and rolls.

3: Far too cautious when doing the navi skip at the door, I can walk up to it and nail it about 85% of the time.

4: Try getting closer to the shrub when you deflect the nut, it would save a good second or so.

5: This is confusing why did you lock onto the ladder, its much quicker to manually hit it and run to it during the cutscene, plus the bash looked bad.

6: That is nothing like the line for landing on the switch or the platform.

7: I discovered a small trick recently that saves a few fractions of a second and that rolling past the bad and getting hit in order to get a speed boost.

8: The lining up was too cautious for the block skip plus its not even necesscary to line up again after you've landed on the block.

9: I think its better to light the torch on the right first instead of doing it last.

10: Funny that I've can never seem to pull of the trick on the block first time, which is why I'll push it three times.

11: Not very good deku room to say the least

12: I fairy certain that Gohma could be done quicker than that as you pause at certain bits for no reason

---------

Overall this isn't great and definitley needs to be re-done. I thnk my beta run was faster than that, although you or someone else can verify for me. My vid shows a perfect demonstration of how to do the last deku room.

Time was generally lost at

1: walkway upto first door
2: web trick
3: Last deku room

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-18 12:44:35 pm

2006-06-18 12:43:44 pm

Speed is the key.

Segment 3.

It's not at all bad, but it's not really great, either. It's fine if you decide to stick with it, but if I were you, I would try to improve it. Wink

AKA and others have already pointed out the biggest time-losses, so I wont give any detailed comments.

Kazooie

2006-06-18 04:59:35 pm

Zelda Rulez!

Great segment TSA Wink

I like watch it but there is some little mistakes Roll Eyes

I think you can do that block message skip faster and that last deku room too.

I think Deku Tree is one of hardest child dungeons to get almost perfect run Roll Eyes

ProtoMonkey

2006-06-18 06:17:02 pm

I've seen 3 or 4 Deku Tree runs now. This is by far the fastest and most polished. It's perfectly good for a segmented run if you ask me.

I think the only reason to have another shot, would be because the route after this section is still under debate.

Very well played TSA!

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2006-06-18 07:19:31 pm

2006-06-18 06:42:21 pm

Quote:

I've seen 3 or 4 Deku Tree runs now. This is by far the fastest and most polished. It's perfectly good for a segmented run if you ask me.

I think the only reason to have another shot, would be because the route after this section is still under debate.

Very well played TSA!

The run is very good in my opinion, but it seems quite identical to Cygnus's (what in the world happened to him and Sam Sim?) beta run... It may be slightly faster (by 10 or so seconds), but it was a beta run. I have the run on the HD, but I can't seem to find the topic where he posted the run... I'll upload it eventually.

I'm content with the segment, but I can see why some other's aren't.

Here is Cygnus's abandoned run: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=26SHDA72

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-18 07:44:54 pm

2006-06-18 07:44:44 pm

Speed is the key.

It's fine if you keep this segment TSA, but I just remembered you saying that you would like to make a run that'll be very hard to beat... This segment is quite beatable.

You do what you want, but that's my opinion. Smiley