OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-06-07 09:18:19 pm

2006-06-07 09:17:07 pm

He's back!

I watched the run again and realised a few things

1. Yes after you exited the tunnel with the sword you did backflip and backwalked straight, but you should have sword spined and its possiblle to get four bushes at once instead of wasting time individually slashing each bush

2. Hit the deku baba on the right first with a horizontal sword spin and again with the second one and while the second one is withing the process of dieing you can collect the stick from the first one you killed. You could be even more advanced by sword spinng inbetween them but the postioning has to be perfect.

3. You entered the tree cutscene at the wrong point, the nearest point to activating the sequence and highest percentage area for being lined up correctly is the left edge. You lost roughly 0.5secs

And to answer an earlier comment no I'm not directly comparing you to the current TAS you have to learn at all levels to tone criticisim for all sorts of runs, even with the poor mythodical methods as we all know (wink wink). It still got 2:04.

Thats my cents 8)

I watched the run again and realised a few things

1. Yes after you exited the tunnel with the sword you did backflip and backwalked straight, but you should have sword spined and its possiblle to get four bushes at once instead of wasting time individually slashing each bush

2. Hit the deku baba on the right first with a horizontal sword spin and again with the second one and while the second one is withing the process of dieing you can collect the stick from the first one you killed. You could be even more advanced by sword spinng inbetween them but the postioning has to be perfect.

3. You entered the tree cutscene at the wrong point, the nearest point to activating the sequence and highest percentage area for being lined up correctly is the left edge. You lost roughly 0.5secs

And to answer an earlier comment no I'm not directly comparing you to the current TAS you have to learn at all levels to tone criticisim for all sorts of runs, even with the poor mythodical methods as we all know (wink wink). It still got 2:04.

Thats my cents  8)

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-08 10:32:37 am

2006-06-08 08:29:00 am

Zelda Scientist®

TSA - I have both vineskip and no vine skip uploaded. The difference between the two times by the time I land on the ground to prepare for the door message skip is a difference of 5 seconds. Now, neither are even near being perfect but they are both pretty decent. There is no way that over an amount of time that small, you can make an accumulation of 5 seconds worth of mistakes unnoticeably in the non vine skip one and then make the other one perfectly or something, so skipping the vine message is undoubtably the faster method. If anything, I think that the rolling in the one that uses the skip was way worse and more time is potentially saveable over the other method.

23 seconds to get to that door part

18 seconds to get to that door part

AKA

2006-06-08 11:57:25 am

He's back!

That test wasn't conclusive as the methods were nowhere near what they optinally could of been. Without the vine skip its much easier to sidestep imeadiatley afterwards. This doesn't take into accoint the extra time that might be needed to pull off the vine text skip using the chest.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-08 01:55:44 pm

2006-06-08 12:23:14 pm

Zelda Scientist®

not 5 seconds. At worst 1.5 extra. Plus, the chest starts yyou out higher on the vinewall so you gain a little time back. I got it, AKA... make one where you can get to the door faster (w/out skip) than the one that is up w/ skip (as unoptimal as it is), or that beats the otehr one by 3.5 seconds. Then I will go and do the other and we can battle until the answers become clear. To be fair, we can have 2 segments. The second one can be started when exiting from the deku scrub room. Then we can add up our 2 totals.

Otherwise, please instruct me on a better method than a roll
pivoted to a backwalk, then climbing up, then rolling. I can't see where you can attempt to squeeze out that many seconds. Lets see, you can roll closer to the edge (realistically it wont save any substancial margins of time). And you could just backrun instead of pivoting probably. Besides that, any other changes made to it can be made to the other in the same fashion. The only part that was left out was the getting on the chest part because I assumed that it wouldn't take 5 seconds to get on the vinewall... so i didn't waste the time uploading the clips, though I did make the clips and can upload them as well if you would like.

K, I am uploading both segment 2s. In fact. the segment for the vineskip is 1 second slower, however... that jump off the chest was poor. I belive that it could actually be slightly faster to go off the chest just because of the vertical gain you get over climbing up the wall slowly.

K, W/ Skip part 2:

W/out Skip part 2:

Both methods will require climbing sideways when up top past the skulltula. The one w/out skip might take 1 less I am not sure. As a note, side ones take less time than vertical ones.

Now, if you can shave 4 to 5 seconds off the 1st part that cannot be done on the other (or was done in the other but not in that one) then you have to say that reading the message is faster. However, you are talking about shaving off 5 seconds from a 23 second clip... 5 seconds of which you are stuck reading. So, more like shaving 5 seconds from an 18 second clip (there are only 18 seconds in there that you can actually do things in). AND 6 seconds is spent climbing and honestly, and after 11 seconds into it, anything you do the other can do to... so we have... 11-6=5. Now, you are trying to cut 4 to 5 seconds out of 5 seconds of improvable time. Forgive me if I am incorrect but I would say that these results are rather conclusive.

not 5 seconds. At worst 1.5 extra. Plus, the chest starts yyou out higher on the vinewall so you gain a little time back. I got it, AKA... make one where you can get to the door faster (w/out skip) than the one that is up w/ skip (as unoptimal as it is), or that beats the otehr one by 3.5 seconds. Then I will go and do the other and we can battle until the answers become clear. To be fair, we can have 2 segments. The second one can be started when exiting from the deku scrub room. Then we can add up our 2 totals.

Otherwise, please instruct me on a better method than a roll 
pivoted to a backwalk, then climbing up, then rolling. I can't see where you can attempt to squeeze out that many seconds. Lets see, you can roll closer to the edge (realistically it wont save any substancial margins of time). And you could just backrun instead of pivoting probably. Besides that, [b]any other changes made to it can be made to the other in the same fashion.[/b] The only part that was left out was the getting on the chest part because I assumed that it wouldn't take 5 seconds to get on the vinewall... so i didn't waste the time uploading the clips, though I did make the clips and can upload them as well if you would like.

K, I am uploading both segment 2s. In fact. the segment for the vineskip is 1 second slower, however... that jump off the chest was poor. I belive that it could actually be slightly faster to go off the chest just because of the vertical gain you get over climbing up the wall slowly.

K, W/ Skip part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2bWEyQlNxs

W/out Skip part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjdriBvLxfg

Both methods will require climbing sideways when up top past the skulltula. The one w/out skip might take 1 less I am not sure. As a note, side ones take less time than vertical ones.

Now, if you can shave 4 to 5 seconds off the 1st part that cannot be done on the other (or was done in the other but not in that one) then you have to say that reading the message is faster. However, you are talking about shaving off 5 seconds from a 23 second clip... 5 seconds of which you are stuck reading. So, more like shaving 5 seconds from an 18 second clip (there are only 18 seconds in there that you can actually do things in). AND 6 seconds is spent climbing and honestly, and after 11 seconds into it, anything you do the other can do to... so we have... 11-6=5. Now, you are trying to cut 4 to 5 seconds out of 5 seconds of improvable time. Forgive me if I am incorrect but I would say that these results are rather conclusive.

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-06-08 03:18:57 pm

2006-06-08 03:17:15 pm

He's back!

Ok here's some videos of attempted bottle and scale skips. All of them in my opinion are impossible to do so I'm giving up on this one. In my opinion it would take something pretty weird to pass King Zora.

Ok Acryte its conclusive, that vine skip is faster, but I won't do it in my run because its easy to make a mistake using the vine skip and hard to do the chest jump bit properly, while vice versa for no vine skip.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-08 03:23:57 pm

2006-06-08 03:22:27 pm

Zelda Scientist®

sounds good aka. I understand fully.

Wow at #1 man, too bad.

KD

Edit history:

KD: 2006-06-08 03:30:53 pm

2006-06-08 03:24:09 pm

Jealousy™

Poe boost!

AKA, could you please start recording all the time and try 100 times exactly like you did before until you do it? Optionally edit out a few failed attempts.

Or at least give a very detailed description >.<

I'd love to see it done.

I'm sure as hell going to leave recording on whenever I'm testing something hard to replicate from now on.

Nice try BTW. I have a feeling that within the next two years bottle will be skipped. Alas, perhaps not now.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-06-08 03:30:01 pm

2006-06-08 03:29:36 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

Wow at #1 man, too bad.

The only way this could happen is if you were to find another acute angle that works as a kid in that same room. :-/

YautjaElder

2006-06-08 03:43:26 pm

Speed is the key.

There are three acute angels in that room IIRC... it's odd that none of them work, though...

Acryte

2006-06-08 03:46:08 pm

Zelda Scientist®

Yeah, try going up top and sidehopping into a jumpslash from above, maybe that wil have an effect if you can squeeze in from near the top... idk

YautjaElder

2006-06-08 03:47:30 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

Yeah, try going up top and sidehopping into a jumpslash from above, maybe that wil have an effect if you can squeeze in from near the top... idk

I tried with levitation, even if you jumpslash while you're squeezed into the corner, you'll ricochet of the wall...

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-06-08 03:59:07 pm

2006-06-08 03:54:10 pm

He's back!

Quote:

Poe boost!

AKA, could you please start recording all the time and try 100 times exactly like you did before until you do it? Optionally edit out a few failed attempts.

Or at least give a very detailed description >.<

I'd love to see it done.

I'm sure as hell going to leave recording on whenever I'm testing something hard to replicate from now on.

Nice try BTW. I have a feeling that within the next two years bottle will be skipped. Alas, perhaps not now.

No I'm not making a video demonstrating the poe boost because its too hard. It requires several elements to be perfect and the important powerful upwards boost from the poe, which is as about as random as manipulating his postion in the graveyard.

I've already described it anyway, its somewhere within this topic.

Quote:

Yeah, try going up top and sidehopping into a jumpslash from above, maybe that wil have an effect if you can squeeze in from near the top... idk

I highly doubt that an acute angle exists as child Link anyway. Radix would probally ban it anyway.

[quote]Poe boost!

AKA, could you please start recording all the time and try 100 times exactly like you did before until you do it? Optionally edit out a few failed attempts.

Or at least give a very detailed description >.<

I'd love to see it done.

I'm sure as hell going to leave recording on whenever I'm testing something hard to replicate from now on.

Nice try BTW. I have a feeling that within the next two years bottle will be skipped. Alas, perhaps not now.[/quote]

[b]No[/b] I'm not making a video demonstrating the poe boost because its too hard. It requires several elements to be perfect and the important powerful upwards boost from the poe, which is as about as random as manipulating his postion in the graveyard.

I've already described it anyway, its somewhere within this topic.

[quote]Yeah, try going up top and sidehopping into a jumpslash from above, maybe that wil have an effect if you can squeeze in from near the top... idk[/quote]

I highly doubt that an acute angle exists as child Link anyway. Radix would probally ban it anyway.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-08 04:07:43 pm

2006-06-08 04:00:58 pm

Zelda Scientist®

acute angle is what you use in ganon's castle. But you do go in the void.... anyways, tried to charge a swordspin and wedge myself into the corner far enough to where I might fall off and grab the edge between the wall and the ledge so i could drop down inside the wall. Didnt work. Cry

well 8am in the morning... i gotta go to bed later. will test more tomorrow i think. Or today i mean... whatever.

TSA

2006-06-08 07:26:33 pm

Retired

Thanks for the videos Acryte. I'll be attempting Segment 3 now.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-08 07:37:08 pm

2006-06-08 07:36:31 pm

Speed is the key.

I'm right there now (Deku Tree) practicing for a 100%. I'm actaully doing one room (that I know) faster than the TAS. The room before the slingshot room. You can actually roll past the Deku Shrub a little, then L target him. You don't even have to stand next to him to make him respond. I'm closer to the door and thus faster... I'm not sure if this is what Acryte meant, but you should be able to do it.

AKA

2006-06-08 08:11:11 pm

He's back!

Could this be of any use

Kazooie

2006-06-08 09:59:31 pm

Zelda Rulez!

Quote:

Could this be of any use

I don't think so Smiley

In king zora room there is 3 acute angles and those only works as adult, don't know why :-/
I have tested some king zora skip stuff but without luck and I'll test more stuff later. Anyway how much time we can save if we skip bottle?

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-08 10:46:46 pm

2006-06-08 10:44:19 pm

Time saved:

+ Trip to Lake Hylia
+ Time taken to get Golden Scale
+ Time taken to get Bottle
+ Time taken for King Zora to move his ass
- Trip up Zora's River
- Time needed to execute King Zora skip
- Time saved in Dodongo's Cavern using bottle glitch
- Time needed for savewarp on trip back from Jabu-Jabu
- Time needed for any complications in timing to Hyrule Castle

I don't know...

SeraphicRadiance

2006-06-08 10:48:13 pm

Question: if we skip the gold scale, how will we get to zora's domain? Wouldn't the route have to change?

mwl

2006-06-08 11:25:11 pm

Zora's River.

SeraphicRadiance

2006-06-08 11:29:57 pm

Oh dang, the route changed yet again :-/

mwl

2006-06-08 11:32:57 pm

Of course. I don't see what's so surprising.

If you skip a key item of course you'll have to end up going a different route to compensate for the lack of it.

The King Zora skip has not yet been discovered so for the moment the route stays as is.

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-09 12:20:39 am

2006-06-09 12:19:36 am

If I'm not mistaken, this is the optimal Forest Temple route?

The two small keys that will be collected have been boxed.

Callout 1 - Entry Courtyard
Callout 2 - Main Chamber
Callout 3 - Stalfos Battle (Need to defeat for upper-level Stalfos to appear); Get 1st Small Key
Callout 4 - Inner Courtyard (Kazooie's Mega Boost)
Callout 10 - Wallmaster (Get 2nd Small Key)
Callout 5 - Block Puzzles (Push and climb)
Unlock two doors en route to Stalfos Battle
Callout 7 (Stalfos Battle; Get Fairy Bow)
Play the Requiem of Spirit

Any way to skip these cutscenes/dialogues?
Poe Sisters
Navi - "Look! There are arrows on the ground!"
Navi - "Look, this corridor's all twisted!"
Navi - "Watch for shadows of monsters hanging from the ceiling"

AKA

2006-06-09 01:08:00 am

He's back!

I don't see how you can complete the master hand room quicker than the courtyard. Remeber there is that chest appearing cutscene. The courtyard can be speeded up with the hookshot and hover boots.

Ideally the courtyard room and master hand room would be done except to my annoyance during a failed attempt I learned I needed to do the first stalfos room. The poe room scene is completley impossible to skip as the code is something like this

/*this is the invisble box around the main lobby door*/
Box forest_lobby X,Y,Z

IF Link is /= forest_lobby then
activate cutscene /* INSERT VARIABLE HERE*/

(Sorry if that completley made no sence)

I don't know about the arrow floor text. I can skip it the first time but I can't bypass it for when I need to push the block from the left hand side after I've pulled it.

The twisted corridor can be skipped with the ground jump ready technique, I would have to test if it really saves time.

Shadow monster text is easy to skip

Yes the general route for the Forest Temple is what I would class as ideal.

I don't see how you can complete the master hand room quicker than the courtyard. Remeber there is that chest appearing cutscene. The courtyard can be speeded up with the hookshot and hover boots.

Ideally the courtyard room and master hand room would be done except to my annoyance during a failed attempt I learned I needed to do the first stalfos room. The poe room scene is completley impossible to skip as the code is something like this

/*this is the invisble box around the main lobby door*/
Box forest_lobby X,Y,Z

IF Link is /= forest_lobby then
activate cutscene /* INSERT VARIABLE HERE*/

(Sorry if that completley made no sence)

I don't know about the arrow floor text. I can skip it the first time but I can't bypass it for when I need to push the block from the left hand side after I've pulled it.

The twisted corridor can be skipped with the ground jump ready technique, I would have to test if it really saves time.

Shadow monster text is easy to skip

Yes the general route for the Forest Temple is what I would class as ideal.

Manocheese

2006-06-09 02:15:45 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

Any way to skip these cutscenes/dialogues?
Poe Sisters
Navi - "Look! There are arrows on the ground!"
Navi - "Look, this corridor's all twisted!"
Navi - "Watch for shadows of monsters hanging from the ceiling"

I posted some methods in the old topic... Ctrl+F through "Print Topic" and you'll find it.