Online marathon logistics

mike89

Edit history:

mike89: 2011-03-25 08:44:00 am

2011-03-25 08:43:08 am

SEGA Junkie

Given we've now decided that we're doing a remote marathon, we need to look at exactly how we can make it happen with as few glitches as possible. We're going to have a set of challenges that we haven't yet faced with in-person marathons, such as:

Streaming method - I think this one is mostly resolved, it sounds like we're going to have one Ustream account that the runners will sub into and out of as required per the schedule. It does sound like we're not going to be able to implement all the changes to the stream that we wanted to make for the next marathon due to time constraints, however - and the fact that every individual streamer would have to have those changes applied at their end.

Races - Given the way we're planning to do the stream, is this even technically feasible? How much do we trust co-hosting to give us good results after the fiasco that was races at the last marathon?

Donation tracking - Given two obvious facts: a) we don't have a centralised machine specifically for this purpose, and b) no one person is going to be awake for the entire marathon, the database of donors is going to have to be able to be passed around between multiple different people. People with actual experience with SMK's donation tracker will need to provide input here as to how easy passing around information using that would be. Also, the Chipin page will need to be shared around amongst multiple people, but that's much easier to co-ordinate.

Commentary - This is going to be a big issue. With the amount of people who want to commentate, there's going to be significant amounts of talking over people unless we are really careful with how we structure commentary. I'm not honestly sure how we go about solving this, we can have a hard limit on the amount of people in the Skype call at any one time but that seems counter-productive to actually producing a good marathon atmosphere. So there needs to be some guidelines for how the commentators commentate, with respect to each other.

Setup time - We've got a couple of weeks to work this out, but switching between players all the time is going to cause significant downtime periods. This obviously can't completely be eradicated, but it can be minimised by issuing a strong directive that players have their setup ready a good ten minutes before their game starts.

I'm sure I had more to say but I can't remember it all now. If you have any solutions to these issues, or further issues to present, speak up! As romscout said, best to get everything on the table as soon as possible!

Thread title:

Given we've now decided that we're doing a remote marathon, we need to look at exactly how we can make it happen with as few glitches as possible. We're going to have a set of challenges that we haven't yet faced with in-person marathons, such as:

[b]Streaming method[/b] - I think this one is mostly resolved, it sounds like we're going to have one Ustream account that the runners will sub into and out of as required per the schedule. It does sound like we're not going to be able to implement all the changes to the stream that we wanted to make for the next marathon due to time constraints, however - and the fact that every individual streamer would have to have those changes applied at their end.

[b]Races[/b] - Given the way we're planning to do the stream, is this even technically feasible? How much do we trust co-hosting to give us good results after the fiasco that was races at the last marathon?

[b]Donation tracking[/b] - Given two obvious facts: a) we don't have a centralised machine specifically for this purpose, and b) no one person is going to be awake for the entire marathon, the database of donors is going to have to be able to be passed around between multiple different people. People with actual experience with SMK's donation tracker will need to provide input here as to how easy passing around information using that would be. Also, the Chipin page will need to be shared around amongst multiple people, but that's much easier to co-ordinate.

[b]Commentary[/b] - This is going to be a big issue. With the amount of people who want to commentate, there's going to be significant amounts of talking over people unless we are really careful with how we structure commentary. I'm not honestly sure how we go about solving this, we can have a hard limit on the amount of people in the Skype call at any one time but that seems counter-productive to actually producing a good marathon atmosphere. So there needs to be some guidelines for how the commentators commentate, with respect to each other.

[b]Setup time[/b] - We've got a couple of weeks to work this out, but switching between players all the time is going to cause significant downtime periods. This obviously can't completely be eradicated, but it can be minimised by issuing a [b]strong directive that players have their setup ready a good ten minutes before their game starts[/b].

I'm sure I had more to say but I can't remember it all now. If you have any solutions to these issues, or further issues to present, speak up! As romscout said, best to get everything on the table as soon as possible!

Tranquilite

2011-03-25 10:52:48 am

For races, there would be a possibility of doing something similar to the solution bmn had worked out, where all of the racers would have their own stream, and an intermediary with sufficient bandwidth and computing power could screen cap/xsplit all of the races together into one stream. This has advantages in that it would decrease bandwidth cost of the viewers considerably, with the disadvantages that there would be additional time delay, along with more ustream watermarks. Additionally, this would put the most stress on the intermediary, and will most likely increase chances of failure.

Not exactly easy, but technically feasible.

romscout

2011-03-25 11:08:13 am

that Metroidvania guy

Yea I don't really like that idea, Tranquilite.

I think first and foremost, anyone who's not using XSplit yet should try it, since it seems to be really good about balancing resource usage and stream quality. It does PC screen capture and does webcams/capture cards. Plus it's free. I think for races we'll have to cap it at 1 additional racer.

Donation tracking could be tricky. I think the best way would be if we could somehow get SMK's app into an online format, but I doubt that can be coded on such short notice, so we might end up having to resort to our CGDQ method of using a spreadsheet, but keep this spreadsheet as a goggle doc with a password so we can always have someone designated to keeping an eye on the donations and updating the table. For prize drawings, we'll just have to use one of many randomizers and just draw a row from the table like we did in the first marathon. This wouldn't be as good as SMK's tracker, but it has a better probability of working fast in our setup.

Commentary rules should be of course that runner gets first priority over everyone else. One commentator is going to be designated as THE commentator for each run in the schedule, and they can handle donation-related commentary and have 2nd priority. Anyone else who'd join in the calls... well, I'm not going to say we need a limit but just imagine how hectic 5+ people talking can get and also be mindful of what the call host can handle. I think 4-5 commentators in a run would logically be the max in most cases.

Most important thing about setup time is what you said: runners should be mindful of when the previous run is ending and get stuff going. Also I think the webcam commentators should get the 2nd stream (designated for commentary) going during the finale of the run. Perhaps mute your mic/turn off audio broadcast until the runner is gone, though. Then we can immediately go to donation totals/prizes while the next player goes online. All of this switching can be effectively communicated in the broadcaster IRC channel I'll set up.

Yea I don't really like that idea, Tranquilite.

I think first and foremost, anyone who's not using XSplit yet should try it, since it seems to be really good about balancing resource usage and stream quality. It does PC screen capture and does webcams/capture cards. Plus it's free. I think for races we'll have to cap it at 1 additional racer.

Donation tracking could be tricky. I think the best way would be if we could somehow get SMK's app into an online format, but I doubt that can be coded on such short notice, so we might end up having to resort to our CGDQ method of using a spreadsheet, but keep this spreadsheet as a goggle doc with a password so we can always have someone designated to keeping an eye on the donations and updating the table. For prize drawings, we'll just have to use one of many randomizers and just draw a row from the table like we did in the first marathon. This wouldn't be as good as SMK's tracker, but it has a better probability of working fast in our setup.

Commentary rules should be of course that runner gets first priority over everyone else. One commentator is going to be designated as THE commentator for each run in the schedule, and they can handle donation-related commentary and have 2nd priority. Anyone else who'd join in the calls... well, I'm not going to say we need a limit but just imagine how hectic 5+ people talking can get and also be mindful of what the call host can handle. I think 4-5 commentators in a run would logically be the max in most cases.

Most important thing about setup time is what you said: runners should be mindful of when the previous run is ending and get stuff going. Also I think the webcam commentators should get the 2nd stream (designated for commentary) going during the finale of the run. Perhaps mute your mic/turn off audio broadcast until the runner is gone, though. Then we can immediately go to donation totals/prizes while the next player goes online. All of this switching can be effectively communicated in the broadcaster IRC channel I'll set up.

Zyre

2011-03-25 11:32:05 am

The Speedrunning Teacher

Quote from romscout:

Most important thing about setup time is what you said: runners should be mindful of when the previous run is ending and get stuff going.

My advice: Runners should plan on watching the stream 30-60 minutes BEFORE they're scheduled slot to see updates and where the prior runner is at. Along those lines is the advice that has been said before: Runners should be set up and ready to run 10-15 minutes before their slot.

DJS

2011-03-25 11:59:03 am

torch slug since 2006

I would probably do something like stream a web browser on a page similar to the w00ty page so every stream comes there automaticly (from each runner), and also, the machine that streams the web page should stream an skype or similar conversation where commentary/runners can talk...

I dont know how this would work out, it might create too much lag.

randomzero

2011-03-26 02:07:56 am

Quote from DJS:

I would probably do something like stream a web browser on a page similar to the w00ty page so every stream comes there automaticly (from each runner), and also, the machine that streams the web page should stream an skype or similar conversation where commentary/runners can talk...

I dont know how this would work out, it might create too much lag.

I agree with something like this. Forget about one dedicated stream for everyone to share and just have a page like the wooty page with the different runners' streams. You could also have one stream that's dedicated to commentary all the time, or just when/if a runner isn't going to be commentating.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2011-03-26 07:10:45 am

2011-03-26 07:08:59 am

For maximum exposure I'd actually suggest streaming on both Ustream and Justin. That would preclude the hub idea that DJS suggested, however. The issue with the hub really is that a lot of people will come due to promotion on the streaming site itself - if we have a hub with a decentralised group of channels, then we lose a lot of the potential from that. A hub is actually a good idea, don't get me wrong, but I think we'd need a central channel to link everything together on the sites themselves. A commentary channel can double as that central channel though.

What I'd personally suggest is to get people with good systems and stable net connections that can stick around a long time as hosts, and have them be part of the commentary Skype call. Whip up an XSplit project for them to use that has stuff like the donation total (perhaps auto-updated if there's a page or API that can provide that info), a space for the game name etc. Then they can use XSplit (or preferably SCFH fed into XSplit) to cap the current runner's stream pretty cleanly and use its XSplit.net service to simulcast to Ustream and Justin, along with commentary (which would be slightly ahead of the gameplay) and game audio.

...which is basically what Tranquilite said. >_>

If we had a hub page however, we could have the commentary stream, but also have the current runner's stream embedded in the same style as AGDQ did (and possibly the next runner's stream as well). That would provide some fallback in case something went wrong with the commentary stream. If necessary we can use sda_stream to help with that.

For maximum exposure I'd actually suggest streaming on both Ustream and Justin. That would preclude the hub idea that DJS suggested, however. The issue with the hub really is that a lot of people will come due to promotion on the streaming site itself - if we have a hub with a decentralised group of channels, then we lose a lot of the potential from that. A hub is actually a good idea, don't get me wrong, but I think we'd need a central channel to link everything together on the sites themselves. A commentary channel can double as that central channel though.

What I'd personally suggest is to get people with good systems and stable net connections that can stick around a long time as hosts, and have them be part of the commentary Skype call. Whip up an XSplit project for them to use that has stuff like the donation total (perhaps auto-updated if there's a page or API that can provide that info), a space for the game name etc. Then they can use XSplit (or preferably SCFH fed into XSplit) to cap the current runner's stream pretty cleanly and use its XSplit.net service to simulcast to Ustream and Justin, along with commentary (which would be slightly ahead of the gameplay) and game audio.

...which is basically what Tranquilite said. >_>

If we had a hub page however, we could have the commentary stream, but also have the current runner's stream embedded in the same style as AGDQ did (and possibly the next runner's stream as well). That would provide some fallback in case something went wrong with the commentary stream. If necessary we can use sda_stream to help with that.

UraniumAnchor

Edit history:

UraniumAnchor: 2011-03-26 11:56:15 am

2011-03-26 11:54:04 am

Not a walrus

If I remember correctly SMK's app just does SQL so in theory all we need to do is set up an MySQL server somewhere. It wouldn't be totally secure but it should at least work.

Edit: This is assuming anybody has the source code to change it so that it points at a remote server.

romscout

2011-03-26 03:29:09 pm

that Metroidvania guy

oh is that what tranquilite said? cuz your explanation sounded way better bmn

Yea, using both streaming sites would be nice... but perhaps the commentary can be on jtv and the game can be on ustream, and when there is no need for the commentary we'll do what you said and have a screen displaying a bunch of relevant info, and the site url so everything can be watched. Then we'll just have some people whose job is to be in the jtv channel as mods and bringing people over to the site or something. I'm only worried that none of us participating actually have a computer/net connection that'll be just fine handling everything you mentioned, bmn. If we do though, then holy crap, let's go for it. I'm afraid since you're the XSplit master around here, you'd have to be the one putting together a lot of that end of it, though.

I know little to nothing about the logistics of SMK's app and I haven't seen him around lately, but something to keep in mind is that this marathon, even with maximum exposure, probably won't be within several leagues of the one we just had so even if we can't land a remote server to put this on, we should be able to get by.

oh is that what tranquilite said? cuz your explanation sounded way better bmn

Yea, using both streaming sites would be nice... but perhaps the commentary can be on jtv and the game can be on ustream, and when there is no need for the commentary we'll do what you said and have a screen displaying a bunch of relevant info, and the site url so everything can be watched. Then we'll just have some people whose job is to be in the jtv channel as mods and bringing people over to the site or something. I'm only worried that none of us participating actually have a computer/net connection that'll be just fine handling everything you mentioned, bmn. If we do though, then holy crap, let's go for it. I'm afraid since you're the XSplit master around here, you'd have to be the one putting together a lot of that end of it, though.

I know little to nothing about the logistics of SMK's app and I haven't seen him around lately, but something to keep in mind is that this marathon, even with maximum exposure, probably won't be within several leagues of the one we just had so even if we can't land a remote server to put this on, we should be able to get by.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2011-03-27 08:25:09 pm

bmn: 2011-03-27 08:24:17 pm

2011-03-27 08:21:21 pm

I think that, because the SDA way is to do D4 F2 video for streams, a single stream only capping one player stream wouldn't require a particularly powerful computer to encode. Required upload bitrate would probably be around SDA's MQ (576kbps). I think most of our current streamers would be able to do it.

Having one stream for Ustream and one for Justin seems like more trouble than it's worth IMO. Figure we could have one stream for everything, use small areas for the info and save most of it for the game. Then during time waiting for runners to get going we could show the get-peeps-on-sda-style stuff in premade XSplit scenes (this'd be in the XSplit profile). The trick to this is that on SDA, if we embed the runner's stream directly on the page as welll, that naturally provides the "raw" game footage without commentary etc for anyone that wants it (and with practically no work on our part), while we only really worry about the marathon stream.

I can look into that and see about getting a skeleton XSplit profile and some instructions set up so we can see if it's any good.

The Ustream/Justin idea relies on a service provided by XSplit called XSplit.net, which was recently opened up for all users. The gist of it is you give it a list of streaming sites with your username/password/channel for them, and broadcast one stream to XSplit.net. They then redistribute the stream to all your listed channels - having tested it, the lag is negligible. It'd let us have the processing/upload requirements of one stream, while streaming to two or more sites. More importantly, if we stream it to Justin, we're guaranteed automatic archival of everything we stream, and the videos can be downloaded in MP4 format after it's all done.

I think that, because the SDA way is to do D4 F2 video for streams, a single stream only capping one player stream wouldn't require a particularly powerful computer to encode. Required upload bitrate would probably be around SDA's MQ (576kbps). I think most of our current streamers would be able to do it.

Having one stream for Ustream and one for Justin seems like more trouble than it's worth IMO. Figure we could have one stream for everything, use small areas for the info and save most of it for the game. Then during time waiting for runners to get going we could show the get-peeps-on-sda-style stuff in premade XSplit scenes (this'd be in the XSplit profile). The trick to this is that on SDA, if we embed the runner's stream directly on the page as welll, that naturally provides the "raw" game footage without commentary etc for anyone that wants it (and with practically no work on our part), while we only really worry about the marathon stream.

I can look into that and see about getting a skeleton XSplit profile and some instructions set up so we can see if it's any good.

The Ustream/Justin idea relies on a service provided by XSplit called XSplit.net, which was recently opened up for all users. The gist of it is you give it a list of streaming sites with your username/password/channel for them, and broadcast one stream to XSplit.net. They then redistribute the stream to all your listed channels - having tested it, the lag is negligible. It'd let us have the processing/upload requirements of one stream, while streaming to two or more sites. More importantly, if we stream it to Justin, we're guaranteed automatic archival of everything we stream, and the videos can be downloaded in MP4 format after it's all done.

Eternalspirit

Edit history:

Eternalspirit: 2011-03-28 03:09:11 am

2011-03-28 03:08:50 am

If you guys need any help or an extra computer to handle any server stuff, I have an unlimited bandwidth cap with a ~625 kbps upload rate, along with a beast of a computer that should be able to handle anything you guys throw at it. Let me know. Smiley

SMK

2011-03-31 02:10:55 pm

Quote from UraniumAnchor:

If I remember correctly SMK's app just does SQL so in theory all we need to do is set up an MySQL server somewhere. It wouldn't be totally secure but it should at least work.

Edit: This is assuming anybody has the source code to change it so that it points at a remote server.

Unfortunately it also relies of some specific aspects of hsqldb to work properly, so it would require more modifications, which I don't really have time to do, and plus the code was left in pretty bad shape after the marathon. Passing the db around wouldn't be especially difficult, as its just a single text file, so you _could_ use a source control repository to share it (just make sure that you shut down the program before submitting changes). Even then though, I'd say that at this stage you'd be better off just using the google docs idea, since you're really stretching what the program was written to handle (which wasn't much in the first place), and google docs has reliability going for it.

[quote="UraniumAnchor"]If I remember correctly SMK's app just does SQL so in theory all we need to do is set up an MySQL server somewhere. It wouldn't be totally secure but it should at least work.

Edit: This is assuming anybody has the source code to change it so that it points at a remote server.[/quote]

Unfortunately it also relies of some specific aspects of hsqldb to work properly, so it would require more modifications, which I don't really have time to do, and plus the code was left in pretty bad shape after the marathon.  Passing the db around wouldn't be especially difficult, as its just a single text file, so you _could_ use a source control repository to share it (just make sure that you shut down the program before submitting changes).  Even then though, I'd say that at this stage you'd be better off just using the google docs idea, since you're really stretching what the program was written to handle (which wasn't much in the first place), and google docs has reliability going for it.

UraniumAnchor

2011-03-31 09:15:14 pm

Not a walrus

Yeah, I was poking at your code and I managed to get it to the point where it was using the HyperSQL server and had two clients connected (and it seemed to be sharing info), but then it shut the server down when I quit one of them. I figured out WHY, but I don't have time to test it for any other surprises unfortunately.

If I had more time I'd probably work on it but I have a million other things going on right now so it's probably better to just use google docs.

Heidrage

2011-04-01 02:30:40 am

Willing to teach you the impossible

SMK is a hero

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2011-04-01 05:29:13 am

2011-04-01 04:32:40 am

Quits halfway

Is the channel already set up? If so, would it be possible to go ahead and grab the .xml for FME? Or whatever info is necessary to connect to the channel.

Xsplit doesn't work for my set up, it doesn't allow you to select whether you're using composite or s-video on a capture card (just goes by the default video stream), so I'm still using FME until that functionality gets added.

Not sure if I'll be wanting to do commentary along with playing, but I'll try to test out my mic this week to see if I can get that working.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2011-04-01 10:52:58 am

2011-04-01 10:34:09 am

Okey, here's what I have in mind for the streaming setup. I'd like your help in testing it to see if it's feasible, as it does require more manpower than previously planned.

Firstly, I think a chat thread or IRC chatroom just for the participants of the marathon should be created, so we have one place to deal with issues once the event starts.

The players streaming at the time would do so on their own channel, whether it be Ustream, Justin, wherever. Personally I think Justin is the better option, as there's no watermark while the mouse isn't hovering over the video. If possible, you should not have anything - except perhaps a timer - obscuring the gameplay, and have the game audio only. Also if you can (Justin does this automatically, Ustream you have to do it manually), record the broadcast so we have it for later archival. For races, please don't use Ustream's cohosting feature to show the other player. The reason for all this should hopefully be clear later.

The hub page (likely the SDA homepage, as with AGDQ) would have two streams embedded - the player's stream, and the SDA marathon channel. This channel will be operated by a group of "hosts" covering the marathon between them.

To be a host:

Not the current player
Can be one of the current commentators, if you can use the mic feature in XSplit properly
Should have a relatively powerful system (double/triple core, a few gigs of RAM etc)
Need at least 600Kbps upload, and enough download to comfortably view a stream at the same time
Need XSplit - the stable version from the site, not the version available through Tier 3
Need Skype and be able to use it while doing the above
If covering a race, the computer/connection would need to be better

The basic way it would work is that the username and password for the marathon channels on Ustream and Justin would be distributed to the hosts. We'd provide an XSplit project file with the needed template scenes. The host would be in a Skype call with the commentators (and the runner if possible) so XSplit's computer sound thing would broadcast that call. Then to show the stream, they'd have the runner's channel open (perhaps popped out in its own window) and use XSplit's screen capture on it to get it on the marathon stream. Of course this will be easier to do if you have more than one monitor, but I appreciate most people don't and would have to persevere.

In order to stream to both Ustream and Justin (which we want, because it gets more viewers - which one we show on SDA's homepage we can decide later), the host would set up a stream on XSplit to XSplit.net, not to Ustream and Justin separately. The XSplit.net setup window lets you add the Ustream/Justin accounts to it, so that when you stream, it goes to XSplit.net and then they rebroadcast the stream to Ustream and Justin.

By having a channel/thread for the participants, if something goes wrong we can hopefully deal with it quickly, say by having another host take over if another has to leave or is having problems. If both the runner(s) and the marathon get recorded, then we get a similar archival situation to AGDQ with the raw game and audio on one, and the commentary/game audio on the other.

So, after all of that, if you're still interested in being a host, can you try this out and let me know how it goes - whether there's any problems... or suggestions for that matter:

Get the current stable XSplit.
Set the resolution to 640x360 (this may change later) and the framerate to 30.
Set up your normal channel or a test channel.
Max video bitrate is 512; audio is AAC at 44,1KHz 16 bit stereo, bitrate 64000.
Run a Skype call - could be a proper call or to the test bot.
Play any stream on Ustream/Justin and screencap it on XSplit.
Start casting. If you can record it to look at it later, great.

If we can get enough hosts to cover the marathon and it works, then I'll be a happy b.

Okey, here's what I have in mind for the streaming setup. I'd like your help in testing it to see if it's feasible, as it does require more manpower than previously planned.

Firstly, I think a chat thread or IRC chatroom just for the participants of the marathon should be created, so we have one place to deal with issues once the event starts.

The players streaming at the time would do so on their own channel, whether it be Ustream, Justin, wherever. Personally I think Justin is the better option, as there's no watermark while the mouse isn't hovering over the video. If possible, you should not have anything - except perhaps a timer - obscuring the gameplay, and have the game audio only. Also if you can (Justin does this automatically, Ustream you have to do it manually), record the broadcast so we have it for later archival. For races, please don't use Ustream's cohosting feature to show the other player. The reason for all this should hopefully be clear later.

The hub page (likely the SDA homepage, as with AGDQ) would have two streams embedded - the player's stream, and the SDA marathon channel. This channel will be operated by a group of "hosts" covering the marathon between them.

To be a host:
[list][*]Not the current player
[*]Can be one of the current commentators, if you can use the mic feature in XSplit properly
[*]Should have a relatively powerful system (double/triple core, a few gigs of RAM etc)
[*]Need at least 600Kbps upload, and enough download to comfortably view a stream at the same time
[*]Need XSplit - the stable version from the site, not the version available through Tier 3
[*]Need Skype and be able to use it while doing the above
[*]If covering a race, the computer/connection would need to be better[/list]

The basic way it would work is that the username and password for the marathon channels on Ustream and Justin would be distributed to the hosts. We'd provide an XSplit project file with the needed template scenes. The host would be in a Skype call with the commentators (and the runner if possible) so XSplit's computer sound thing would broadcast that call. Then to show the stream, they'd have the runner's channel open (perhaps popped out in its own window) and use XSplit's screen capture on it to get it on the marathon stream. Of course this will be easier to do if you have more than one monitor, but I appreciate most people don't and would have to persevere.

In order to stream to both Ustream and Justin (which we want, because it gets more viewers - which one we show on SDA's homepage we can decide later), the host would set up a stream on XSplit to XSplit.net, not to Ustream and Justin separately. The XSplit.net setup window lets you add the Ustream/Justin accounts to it, so that when you stream, it goes to XSplit.net and then they rebroadcast the stream to Ustream and Justin.

By having a channel/thread for the participants, if something goes wrong we can hopefully deal with it quickly, say by having another host take over if another has to leave or is having problems. If both the runner(s) and the marathon get recorded, then we get a similar archival situation to AGDQ with the raw game and audio on one, and the commentary/game audio on the other.

So, after all of that, if you're still interested in being a host, can you try this out and let me know how it goes - whether there's any problems... or suggestions for that matter:

[list][*]Get the current stable XSplit.
[*]Set the resolution to 640x360 (this may change later) and the framerate to 30.
[*]Set up your normal channel or a test channel.
[*]Max video bitrate is 512; audio is AAC at 44,1KHz 16 bit stereo, bitrate 64000.
[*]Run a Skype call - could be a proper call or to the test bot.
[*]Play any stream on Ustream/Justin and screencap it on XSplit.
[*]Start casting. If you can record it to look at it later, great.[/list]

If we can get enough hosts to cover the marathon and it works, then I'll be a happy b.

mike89

2011-04-01 11:02:17 am

SEGA Junkie

Quote from bmn:

The hub page (likely the SDA homepage, as with AGDQ) would have two streams embedded - the player's stream, and the SDA marathon channel.

This seems to be the only issue with your proposal - how easy is it to change the streams embedded on the front page on the fly? Would it force everyone to refresh the page every time you switched between players? Also, doesn't that mean that someone with DB access would have to always be around?

ZenicReverie

2011-04-01 11:02:26 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

I'm not sure my setup would work with this. I'd have to take a look at it later, but my audio is coming from the on-board connections. Which means the game audio and mic are on the same channel, and I don't know if I can split those up so that FME only uses the game audio and Skype could use the mic. I haven't messed around with all the audio settings though, so maybe there's a way and this isn't any issue.

What would the host be streaming? Web cam, or game + commentary?

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2011-04-01 11:35:24 am

bmn: 2011-04-01 11:34:36 am

bmn: 2011-04-01 11:33:22 am

2011-04-01 11:31:19 am

Quote from mike89:

Quote from bmn:

The hub page (likely the SDA homepage, as with AGDQ) would have two streams embedded - the player's stream, and the SDA marathon channel.

This seems to be the only issue with your proposal - how easy is it to change the streams embedded on the front page on the fly? Would it force everyone to refresh the page every time you switched between players? Also, doesn't that mean that someone with DB access would have to always be around?

I hadn't thought that through I will admit. I don't think it'd be particularly difficult to come up with a simple web form to change the current runner, then use a regular AJAX refresh (similar to how sda_stream works... though a lot simpler) to check and change when necessary.

Quote from ZenicReverie:

I'm not sure my setup would work with this. I'd have to take a look at it later, but my audio is coming from the on-board connections. Which means the game audio and mic are on the same channel, and I don't know if I can split those up so that FME only uses the game audio and Skype could use the mic. I haven't messed around with all the audio settings though, so maybe there's a way and this isn't any issue.

What would the host be streaming? Web cam, or game + commentary?

Game and commentary I feel. I'd say there's little point in showing someone if they aren't the player themselves.

The no mic on game stream, mic on Skype thing is more a recommendation than anything else. If you can't do it, you can't do it, and I don't think it's important enough to worry about, especially for a marathon we're rushing into existence. Doing it the suggested way, though, helps with commentary conversation if the runner's voice isn't a few seconds behind.

Any more concerns, by all means air them. If this doesn't work out we do still have other options.

[quote="mike89"][quote="bmn"]The hub page (likely the SDA homepage, as with AGDQ) would have two streams embedded - [b]the player's stream[/b], and the SDA marathon channel.[/quote]

This seems to be the only issue with your proposal - how easy is it to change the streams embedded on the front page on the fly? Would it force everyone to refresh the page every time you switched between players? Also, doesn't that mean that someone with DB access would have to always be around?[/quote]

I hadn't thought that through I will admit. I don't think it'd be particularly difficult to come up with a simple web form to change the current runner, then use a regular AJAX refresh (similar to how sda_stream works... though a lot simpler) to check and change when necessary.

[quote="ZenicReverie"]I'm not sure my setup would work with this. I'd have to take a look at it later, but my audio is coming from the on-board connections. Which means the game audio and mic are on the same channel, and I don't know if I can split those up so that FME only uses the game audio and Skype could use the mic. I haven't messed around with all the audio settings though, so maybe there's a way and this isn't any issue.

What would the host be streaming? Web cam, or game + commentary?[/quote]

Game and commentary I feel. I'd say there's little point in showing someone if they aren't the player themselves.

The no mic on game stream, mic on Skype thing is more a recommendation than anything else. If you can't do it, you can't do it, and I don't think it's important enough to worry about, especially for a marathon we're rushing into existence. Doing it the suggested way, though, helps with commentary conversation if the runner's voice isn't a few seconds behind.

Any more concerns, by all means air them. If this doesn't work out we do still have other options.

Miles

2011-04-01 11:45:23 am

It seems a bit weird that one stream would show the game, and the other stream would show... The exact same thing, except a few seconds behind (unless I'm missing something?). I do agree with your point about webcams though, so I can't really think of a better solution.

I'm guessing the amount of streams would increase to 3+ during races?

romscout

2011-04-01 11:45:40 am

that Metroidvania guy

bmn add me on skype, username is hadelicious

we'll do some testing today

ZenicReverie

2011-04-01 11:48:36 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

So, the host would just be rebroadcasting the game with additional commentary? Could this be the main stream instead? I mean why have the game stream at all in that case?

It'd definitely be easier for a host to switch between games instead of sharing an account the runners use or auto switching based on on-air/off-air status. If only the users could have some sort of audio channel control to mute commentary if they just wanted to watch the game.

romscout

2011-04-01 12:00:23 pm

that Metroidvania guy

I have a feeling with so little time left that we're not gonna be able to do this anyway, so I'm setting up everything for the plan we originally had anyway right now. But I'm still willing to test what bmn has on the table right now. Even if we can't get your plan sorted out soon though, this stuff can definitely be applied to future marathons.

mikwuyma

2011-04-05 12:38:59 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Question about races, how will we start them? Are we going to use the commands on #speedrunslive, or have someone in a skype call just countdown for both of the runners?

Paraxade

2011-04-05 01:50:43 pm

I was thinking we could use #speedrunslive, I don't see why not.