One thing I hate about tool-assisted speedruns

2008-04-07 05:16:01 pm

Swim Swim Hungry

Quote:

Is anybody else thinking that the technical knowledge of the people is causing some arguments?

"My computer is about 3 years old and it can play FEAR at almost maximum settings (only soft shadows make it too slow). If this speedrunner can only play the game at the lowest possible settings it means his computer must be over 5 years old or something."

TAS Videos = Ignorant

"because I agree with Warp; some of the SDA runs are so goddamn dark and graphically lifeless, I can't see what the fuck is going on most of the time."

^ Not really SDA fault is it?

FEAR isn't the problem; it's FRAPS that's the resource hog. I can play FEAR with high settings too, but to record it I need to turn everything down.

Also, I turn the gamma up because it's not a 'get scared run' of the game, it's a speed run. And seeing where you're going is important for speed.

That guy has obviously never tried to speed run FEAR.

Hattori HANZo

2008-04-07 07:21:48 pm

contraddicted

Well, his "idea" that speedruns should be about entertainment is ok to me. I just disagree with that and therefore also with his subliminally stated point of view that speedruns are made for people just to watch them.
I personally see them as a proof of the time claimed by the runner and a visual resource of route and tricks for a game in the first placed. I did never expect that any run here would have entertainment values not being a direct result of the attempt to finish the game as fast as possible by any means.

What's ignorant is what he said about quality settings of games. First off he missed that playing and recording on a PC are not the same.
But I see no point made in stating that consoles nowadays age faster than PCs and therefore one could buy a new PC every now and then. The assumption that everyone playing video games is able and willing to spend at least a certain amount of money for doing so and fixing this value by the price tag of modern consoles is just plain dumb in my eyes.

My rating for his posting would be "plonk".

Well, his "idea" that speedruns should be about entertainment is ok to me. I just disagree with that and therefore also with his subliminally stated point of view that speedruns are made for people just to watch them.
I personally see them as a proof of the time claimed by the runner and a visual resource of route and tricks for a game in the first placed. I did never expect that any run here would have entertainment values not being a direct result of the attempt to finish the game as fast as possible by any means.

What's ignorant is what he said about quality settings of games. First off he missed that playing and recording on a PC are not the same. 
But I see no point made in stating that consoles nowadays age faster than PCs and therefore one could buy a new PC every now and then. The assumption that everyone playing video games is able and willing to spend at least a certain amount of money for doing so and fixing this value by the price tag of modern consoles is just plain dumb in my eyes.

My rating for his posting would be "plonk".

groobo

2008-04-07 07:22:50 pm

boss

Regarding fear: turning everything down will make the game bright as hell by default. I, at least, left the gamma/brightness settings untouched. I'd make an eye-candy run if I'd only have a better pc.

Frezy_man

2008-04-07 08:21:36 pm

bläää

Quote:

because TASes will always be more entertaining.

I dont understand this.. does not gaming skills entertain?
Not tool assisted speedruns is basicly more entertaining for me.
Who cares about something done with tools anyway? It sucks.. But still I do watch TASs sometimes. But I dont understand the point very well. Im mostly dissapointed anyway. Many tricks is impossible in real-time gameplay. So it makes no sense.

TheThrillness

2008-04-07 08:23:50 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Quote:

I can play FEAR with high settings too, but to record it I need to turn everything down.

*Gives 8800GT/3870*

Reaver

2008-04-07 09:53:28 pm

Flicked through what was written briefly. One person actually said that it should've been given to someone with a better computer to run the game. This confused me slightly. Even if they pulled off a half decent run there's no guarantee it would've been done as fast as Groobo's. Its not like a speed run is a standard thing that anyone can pull off in the same manner. It would've missed out on Groobo's artistic speedrunning style. Also was it really that bad not seeing all the ultra high quality graphics? I didn't really mind. Not everyone can afford to splash out on upgrades.

The runs that i've seen up on SDA are quite entertaining. True i've not seen them all but from what I've seen so far, I've enjoyed watching them. I'll admit the bit in Opposing Force was a bit annoying at the end, but it didn't ruin the run for me. It was still absolutely amazing to watch and I found it highly entertaining. Even if I was to watch it now for the umpteenth time, I would still say "Wow that was amazing!" Moaning that it didn't allow you to focus into the story seems pointless. Who watches a speed run to understand the story behind the game? I thought the whole point of a speed run, was, well, for speed, not a games story.

The most entertaining route option is slightly harder in a realtime run. I'm assuming whats meant here is most entertaining being a more difficult method of obtaining the same goal. Often its this higher difficulty that adds to the "wow factor". I could be wrong in assuming this but I doubt its meant that someone performs a jump instead of a roll or simply running to it. If you're repeating a segment for the 352nd time, and the segment is 15 minutes long, you dont really want to risk a slightly more entertaining method on the 14th minute and balls up the segment. Savestates and slowdowns give an advantage here that aren't present in a regular speedrun. I've got nothing against TASes but there is an advantage that just isn't present in a normal run.

Its true that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but it just seems to me it was a moan about minor things. I'm sure "a rat's arse" is given about entertainment and quality.

This is just my opinion.

Flicked through what was written briefly. One person actually said that it should've been given to someone with a better computer to run the game. This confused me slightly. Even if they pulled off a half decent run there's no guarantee it would've been done as fast as Groobo's. Its not like a speed run is a standard thing that anyone can pull off in the same manner. It would've missed out on Groobo's artistic speedrunning style. Also was it really that bad not seeing all the ultra high quality graphics? I didn't really mind. Not everyone can afford to splash out on upgrades.

The runs that i've seen up on SDA are quite entertaining. True i've not seen them all but from what I've seen so far, I've enjoyed watching them. I'll admit the bit in Opposing Force was a bit annoying at the end, but it didn't ruin the run for me. It was still absolutely amazing to watch and I found it highly entertaining. Even if I was to watch it now for the umpteenth time, I would still say "Wow that was amazing!" Moaning that it didn't allow you to focus into the story seems pointless. Who watches a speed run to understand the story behind the game? I thought the whole point of a speed run, was, well, for speed, not a games story.

The most entertaining route option is slightly harder in a realtime run. I'm assuming whats meant here is most entertaining being a more difficult method of obtaining the same goal. Often its this higher difficulty that adds to the "wow factor". I could be wrong in assuming this but I doubt its meant that someone performs a jump instead of a roll or simply running to it. If you're repeating a segment for the 352nd time, and the segment is 15 minutes long, you dont really want to risk a slightly more entertaining method on the 14th minute and balls up the segment. Savestates and slowdowns give an advantage here that aren't present in a regular speedrun. I've got nothing against TASes but there is an advantage that just isn't present in a normal run.

Its true that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but it just seems to me it was a moan about minor things. I'm sure "a rat's arse" is given about entertainment and quality.

This is just my opinion.

OnyxShadow

Edit history:

OnyxShadow: 2008-04-08 06:55:13 am

2008-04-08 12:55:31 am

May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce!

To me the whole purpose of speedrunning is...well...speed.

That being said, I don't know of anywhere you can download "entertaining" runs of games, and I wish I did.

MTGjumper

2008-04-08 10:06:03 am

Obviously, the place to watch entertaining speed runs is on TASvideos.

moozooh

2008-04-08 02:03:30 pm

Hail Discordia!

Good job on blowing the original thread out of any sensible proportions.

Honestly, I expected better from you, Enhasa.

adzicents

Edit history:

adzicents: 2008-04-08 03:46:28 pm

2008-04-08 03:43:23 pm

King Laskdjf

My post on TASVideos;

Mmkay, I know this is a dangerous ground to be making a first post on, but really. Jesus christ guys, get a hold of yourselves. All I hear is 'TAS is superior because ---' 'Fuck you regular speedruns > TAS' and it's just plain stupid.

Now;
Speedruns are meant to show of SKILL of something, just like a marathon race is supposed to show of that runners SKILL in running and endurance. Sure, we're entertained by watching a marathon or a similar sport, but that's because we want to see where they excel and where they fall behind.
Have a speedrun as entertaining as you like, it's not going to change the amount of skill that's needed to produce the run.

TAS !> Regular Speedruns
Regular Speedruns !> TAS

Level of entertainment != Level of skill.

To continue with my previous example, if a marathon runner was trying to entertain AS WELL as show off skill, then he could do so by waving to fans, making funny gestures and such. Although this may be entertaining to the viewers, I'm pretty sure it will put him off his mindset of what his current goal is.
Relating this to speedrunning, I'm pretty sure if a speedrunner were to consider entertainment, he could lose his mindset of what he's trying to accomplish. TAS CAN accomplish this level of skill AND entertainment as they have the ability to re-do things more actively than speedrunners. If a speedrunner is, for example, about to set up for a difficult trick that follows a extended cut-scene, that speedrunner would most likely not be trying to entertain the viewer as much as he/she is trying to prepare for the up-coming trick. The ability of a TAS, is they're able to slow things down and allow a smaller cause of error to happen so they are able to spend that extra amount of time entertaining the viewer.

As has been mentioned, most people watch or become involved in speedruns/TASes that are of games they are familiar with. I can't say that I haven't watched a TAS because I wanted to see what the game was like, I'm sure many of you have aswell.

ONE thing I do not understand about all the people arguing in here... Have you actually considered what that site considers in relation to entertainment?
TASVideos' Why and How page.
SDA's FAQs Page

Quote from TASVideos:

Our primary goals are to create art and provide entertainment.

Quote from SDA:

...exhibition videos are not SDA's focus. If a game allows cutscenes to be skipped, then we require runners to skip them, and they are probably not interested in watching them for the hundredth time either.

As you can see, SDA does not require a direct focus on entertainment value, while TASVideo's main goal is to PROVIDE entertainment.

The way I see it, the people arguing that regular speedruns are stupid because they don't provide entertainment are arguing so because they're used to seeing the TAS environment where things are made for entertainment, while SDA members couldn't give one way or the other.

Reading through this topic, I'm actually quite disappointed that a hobby such as this has even turned into a war between two worlds. It feels like a Guitar Hero/Rock Band argument or a Call of Duty 4/Halo 3 argument.

To be honest, they're not the only ones taking things a little too far. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just saying some people could be a little more mature about a silly argument.

My post on TASVideos;

Mmkay, I know this is a dangerous ground to be making a first post on, but really. Jesus christ guys, get a hold of yourselves. All I hear is 'TAS is superior because ---' 'Fuck you regular speedruns > TAS' and it's just plain stupid.

Now;
Speedruns are meant to show of SKILL of something, just like a marathon race is supposed to show of that runners SKILL in running and endurance. Sure, we're entertained by watching a marathon or a similar sport, but that's because we want to see where they excel and where they fall behind.
Have a speedrun as entertaining as you like, it's not going to change the amount of skill that's needed to produce the run.

TAS !> Regular Speedruns
Regular Speedruns !> TAS

Level of entertainment != Level of skill.

To continue with my previous example, if a marathon runner was trying to entertain AS WELL as show off skill, then he could do so by waving to fans, making funny gestures and such. Although this may be entertaining to the viewers, I'm pretty sure it will put him off his mindset of what his current goal is.
Relating this to speedrunning, I'm pretty sure if a speedrunner were to consider entertainment, he could lose his mindset of what he's trying to accomplish. TAS CAN accomplish this level of skill AND entertainment as they have the ability to re-do things more actively than speedrunners. If a speedrunner is, for example, about to set up for a difficult trick that follows a extended cut-scene, that speedrunner would most likely not be trying to entertain the viewer as much as he/she is trying to prepare for the up-coming trick. The ability of a TAS, is they're able to slow things down and allow a smaller cause of error to happen so they are able to spend that extra amount of time entertaining the viewer.

As has been mentioned, most people watch or become involved in speedruns/TASes that are of games they are familiar with. I can't say that I haven't watched a TAS because I wanted to see what the game was like, I'm sure many of you have aswell.

ONE thing I do not understand about all the people arguing in here... Have you actually considered what that site considers in relation to entertainment?
[url=http://tasvideos.org/WhyAndHow.html]TASVideos' Why and How page.[/url]
[url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/faq.html]SDA's FAQs Page[/url]
[quote="TASVideos"]Our primary goals are to [i]create art[/i] and [i]provide entertainment.[/i][/quote]
[quote="SDA"]...exhibition videos are not SDA's focus. If a game allows cutscenes to be skipped, then we require runners to skip them, and they are probably not interested in watching them for the hundredth time either.[/quote]
As you can see, SDA does not require a direct focus on entertainment value, while TASVideo's main goal is to PROVIDE entertainment.

The way I see it, the people arguing that regular speedruns are stupid because they don't provide entertainment are arguing so because they're used to seeing the TAS environment where things are made for entertainment, while SDA members couldn't give one way or the other.

Reading through this topic, I'm actually quite disappointed that a hobby such as this has even turned into a war between two worlds. It feels like a Guitar Hero/Rock Band argument or a Call of Duty 4/Halo 3 argument.

To be honest, they're not the only ones taking things a little too far. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just saying some people could be a little more mature about a silly argument.

MTGjumper

2008-04-08 04:50:02 pm

I'd say QFT, but I hate clichéd acronyms. :-/

Anyway, that post really sums up what should have been said much earlier. Although the two sites share a big similarity (speedrunning) the differences due to the nature of the beast are obvious, and the runs shouldn't be compared in the way that this thread, and the thread in question, have been.

moozooh

2008-04-08 05:15:39 pm

Hail Discordia!

They haven't even been, at least not by the original poster.

What he said primarily was that it annoyed him when players had the free choice to do an idle scene better, but didn't. It is but one grumpy post, anyone who disagrees are as free to ignore it as they do on a daily basis with all the other things they don't bother with.

Now go look what happened to that thread: all sorts of animosity pouring from everywhere. Wtf.

Moostafar

2008-04-08 07:08:06 pm

Hi there.

Now, this is what I call entertainment!

Kibbo

Edit history:

Kibbo: 2008-04-08 07:45:51 pm

2008-04-08 07:26:28 pm

TIOLET!

That's what I call one of the biggest piles of bullshit I've ever seen.

That's all I will say for this discussion.

Enhasa

2008-04-08 08:42:47 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Good job on blowing the original thread out of any sensible proportions.

Honestly, I expected better from you, Enhasa.

You might notice that I personally do not have any beef with Warp or his opinions. I posted there (and haven't checked back since, because I don't care about the topic) and made this thread for my own amusement (my tone is facetious, not angry). If a lot of SDA people took offense and shat all over that thread, I think that should reflect on the individual posters. From what I've heard, that thread was pretty awful for the first 4 pages too though.

Zero animosity from me, I'm sure you've noticed. This post from earlier in this thread is the sum of my opinions on the original post. Someone on IRC said there was a "one thing I hate about speedruns" thread, and I instantly figured it was Warp, even though I barely even knew the first thing about him. I only posted because it actually was Warp, which was funny. I don't really care about the topic, so I wouldn't have bothered if it was anyone else.

[quote]Good job on blowing the original thread out of any sensible proportions.

Honestly, I expected better from you, Enhasa.[/quote]
You might notice that I personally do not have any beef with Warp or his opinions. I posted there (and haven't checked back since, because I don't care about the topic) and made this thread for my own amusement (my tone is facetious, not angry). If a lot of SDA people took offense and shat all over that thread, I think that should reflect on the individual posters. From what I've heard, that thread was pretty awful for the first 4 pages too though.

Zero animosity from me, I'm sure you've noticed. [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=main;action=display;num=1207454979;start=0#6]This post[/url] from earlier in this thread is the sum of my opinions on the original post. Someone on IRC said there was a "one thing I hate about speedruns" thread, and I instantly figured it was Warp, even though I barely even knew the first thing about him. I only posted because it actually was Warp, which was funny. I don't really care about the topic, so I wouldn't have bothered if it was anyone else.

moozooh

Edit history:

moozooh: 2008-04-08 09:23:27 pm

2008-04-08 09:23:03 pm

Hail Discordia!

Yes, you have no beef with anyone. You've just lured the others in that thread for your own amusement, and came innocent out of it, even though you knew very well how it was going to end.

If that's not ill-spirited, I don't know what it is.

Quote:

He actually complains and says he hates speedruns because they should be all about entertainment, but they're not.

I mean, no comments. Point missed by a mile, no less.

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-04-08 09:28:13 pm

2008-04-08 09:27:33 pm

Quote:

I personally do not have any beef with Warp or his opinions.

Debatable.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2008-04-08 09:50:35 pm

2008-04-08 09:48:02 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Yes, you have no beef with anyone. You've just lured the others in that thread for your own amusement, and came innocent out of it, even though you knew very well how it was going to end.

If that's not ill-spirited, I don't know what it is.

I mean, no comments. Point missed by a mile, no less.

Aren't you friends with Twiddle or something?

Bringing others into that thread was a negative side-effect, but my goal wasn't to lure people and then watch the carnage, or else I would have checked back on the thread even once. I just wanted to make a funny original post, it probably should have been locked, I guess.

About missing his point, that's very likely, since I didn't give it much thought. Edit: if you like, you can tell me what you think his point is. I'm too dense to understand it, it seems clear cut to me.

Quote:

Debatable.

Nope, you need both sides to participate to have a feud. I heard he's angry at me, but I'm not angry at him.

65

2008-04-08 10:03:46 pm

You can say you were sarcastic or joking all you like. It's not like I haven't heard that one before. Your tone was not a friendly one, and you know it.

I can back this up, but I'd hate to spell this out for you. I'm sure you are clever enough to realize what my point is.

Enhasa

2008-04-08 11:59:26 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Um, ok. I'm surprised you are trying to tell me what I was thinking. Not very nice of you. I don't presume to know other people better than they know themselves.

Ask someone who actually knows me, or someone who was on IRC at the time. I promise you're completely wrong here. There are a ton of people that could back me up that I was never railing about anything.

Here is an example anyway, of me not having a problem with Warp, and of me not liking flamewars.

Quote:

<BoltR> I don't know which is worse
<BoltR> Warp
<BoltR> Or the guy who called all of TASVideos dumb
<BoltR> because of warp
<Enhasa> guy

I was bored in class so I was thinking of this thread heh. When moozooh said "ill-spirited," that's completely wrong. It's more like irresponsible or careless. Someone could think that I (and by extension, SDA) am against tasvideos or that I want to start a feud, when that is not true in the least.

If you notice the reactions from people, the SDA people seem to be taking this more seriously, while even the tasvideos people who know me (besides moozooh), have had a positive or indifferent reaction. They know I'm not trying to stir shit up.

I already intended to lock this thread when I got back. It's too bad now it might look like I am all cookies and cream while I don't get any criticism, and as soon as I get criticism, I lock the thread. Well, you seem to be a very stubborn and hard person to convince, but it really is 0% about that. What moozooh said made me think about this, and the very act of linking the tasvideos topic in here (especially since I work for SDA now) is careless. I don't tend to act like I am a representative for SDA, but maybe I need to start feeling more that way, because it's true whether or not I like it.

Oh and,

Quote:

I can back this up, but I'd hate to spell this out for you. I'm sure you are clever enough to realize what my point is.

I have to be honest with you, I have absolutely no idea what you mean at all. If you want, you can spell it out for me in a PM.

Also, dunno if you know this, but don't assume I'll be able to figure something out if you hint at it. I have a very healthy, low opinion of my mental ability. I'm pretty much sure I think less of myself than you think of yourself.

Ok, here is proof we were going to lock this when it gets out of hand, which it probably has a while back (I'm asleep at the wheel).

Quote:

<jewyama> you know enhasa
<jewyama> that tas topic
<Enhasa> the one at tas or the one at sda you mean
<jewyama> could quickly degenerate into someone (lucid faia) just bitching about tases
<jewyama> and then it would really need to be locked
<Enhasa> hoho, that is when we would lock it
<xxalucard> hoho = ff7 scientist reference
<Enhasa> what do the think the o/u on pages that gets
<Enhasa> i say 1.5
<Lenophis> that was hojo
<PAKIRAQI> hojo
<PAKIRAQI> IDIOT HEAD
<Enhasa> i'm glad someone said that bc i would have never been able to
<Lenophis> also, nice thread
<Enhasa> it's 100% true too
<Enhasa> also my first post is far more interesting and enjoyable to read than warp's
<Enhasa> speedier *and* more entertaining
<Enhasa> his post is obsoleted
<spineshark> lol
<illum1nated> hahahahah
<PAKIRAQI> it takes like 38982839 fewer frames to read
<VorpalEdge> you need to lock his topic now Tongue

Um, ok. I'm surprised you are trying to tell me what I was thinking. Not very nice of you. I don't presume to know other people better than they know themselves.

Ask someone who actually knows me, or someone who was on IRC at the time. I promise you're completely wrong here. There are a ton of people that could back me up that I was never railing about anything.

Here is an example anyway, of me not having a problem with Warp, and of me not liking flamewars.
[quote]<BoltR> I don't know which is worse
<BoltR> Warp
<BoltR> Or the guy who called all of TASVideos dumb
<BoltR> because of warp
<Enhasa> guy[/quote]

I was bored in class so I was thinking of this thread heh. When moozooh said "ill-spirited," that's completely wrong. It's more like irresponsible or careless. Someone could think that I (and by extension, SDA) am against tasvideos or that I want to start a feud, when that is not true in the least.

If you notice the reactions from people, the SDA people seem to be taking this more seriously, while even the tasvideos people who know me (besides moozooh), have had a positive or indifferent reaction. They know I'm not trying to stir shit up.

I already intended to lock this thread when I got back. It's too bad now it might look like I am all cookies and cream while I don't get any criticism, and as soon as I get criticism, I lock the thread. Well, you seem to be a very stubborn and hard person to convince, but it really is 0% about that. What moozooh said made me think about this, and the very act of linking the tasvideos topic in here (especially since I work for SDA now) is careless. I don't tend to act like I am a representative for SDA, but maybe I need to start feeling more that way, because it's true whether or not I like it.

Oh and,
[quote]I can back this up, but I'd hate to spell this out for you. I'm sure [u]you[/u] are clever enough to realize what my point is.[/quote]
I have to be honest with you, I have absolutely no idea what you mean at all. If you want, you can spell it out for me in a PM.

Also, dunno if you know this, but don't assume I'll be able to figure something out if you hint at it. I have a very healthy, low opinion of my mental ability. I'm pretty much sure I think less of myself than you think of yourself.

Ok, here is proof we were going to lock this when it gets out of hand, which it probably has a while back (I'm asleep at the wheel).
[quote]<jewyama> you know enhasa
<jewyama> that tas topic
<Enhasa> the one at tas or the one at sda you mean  
<jewyama> could quickly degenerate into someone (lucid faia) just bitching about tases
<jewyama> and then it would really need to be locked
<Enhasa> hoho, that is when we would lock it  
<xxalucard> hoho = ff7 scientist reference
<Enhasa> what do the think the o/u on pages that gets  
<Enhasa> i say 1.5  
<Lenophis> that was hojo
<PAKIRAQI> hojo
<PAKIRAQI> IDIOT HEAD
<Enhasa> i'm glad someone said that bc i would have never been able to  
<Lenophis> also, nice thread
<Enhasa> it's 100% true too  
<Enhasa> also my first post is far more interesting and enjoyable to read than warp's  
<Enhasa> speedier *and* more entertaining  
<Enhasa> his post is obsoleted  
<spineshark> lol
<illum1nated> hahahahah
<PAKIRAQI> it takes like 38982839 fewer frames to read
<VorpalEdge> you need to lock his topic now :P[/quote]

Enhasa

2008-04-09 11:58:17 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

It seems Cremator would rather be able to air his grievances with me in public, so I'm putting his PM here.

Quote:

You're restricting my ability to answer you in public and you're putting words into my mouth that I cannot correct. Not very nice of you, hmm? Wink

I should have known better than to give a mod a chance to lock the thread and walk away. Not that it matters much except you're making me look bad without any chance to finish what I started, thus explaining myself.

I don't know you. You don't know me. Correct so far? Alright, what if I were to tell you that what you are and what I am is irrelevant? Only the reflection that is given via a chunk of text matters. Your very first sentence was:

It attracts people like this.

which includes both a negative assumption of what you're linking to, and misleading information through that. Let's refine that sentence:

TASVideos attract people who complain about speedrunners' idle action of choice.

That does not completely hold true as we have already had this very same conversation here at SDA months before this happened, only in slightly different words. He did complain about the lack of graphical beauty in some runs, but that was explained soon after and he recognized that. All this happened before you entered the picture.

Now, if your posts in the thread were honestly being friendly, I don't want to be friend, now or in the future.

I know very little about TASvideos as a community, or what you were really discussing in more or less private terms (which, in this case, shall refer to anything outside of SDA's or TASvideos' public forums), so take this as an observation of an outsider. For someone who hasn't really spoken to someone else (in this case, Warp), the way you expressed your amusement leaves much to be desired. It could even be interpreted as a negative tone, even. In any case, since you didn't know the guy (going with your own description of the events), it cannot be, under any circumistance, be considered "friendly".

Belittling someone and bluntly ruling out someone's opinions (slightly rudely put as they may be) isn't being nice to someone. At least, not in my book.

Um, ok. I'm surprised you are trying to tell me what I was thinking. Not very nice of you. I don't presume to know other people better than they know themselves.

I never said I know what you are thinking. I'm speaking about your reflected image you yourself have given, especially to people who do not frequent #sda to verify those claims. Maybe if you hadn't tried to wash your hands so actively your hands off the whole affair, I probably even wouldn't have bothered, but you're trying so hard to get back on your high horse after descending among the commoners that it looks ridiculous.

Obviously, I may have been harsh with my choice of words in this PM, probably more than intented. Try not to get entangled in that, and go for the meaning. After all, I'm not known for my good English, apparently. But hey, you can always mock me afterwards. Just try not let the main points slide off your focus, alright? Kiss

Okay.

By saying I trust your mental capabilities to churn out the meaning in this incomprehensible mess is again, not based on guessing, but on observation, as you have demonstrated your ability to understand and process things that are presented to you. As such, it's an image you yourself have given and has very little to do with my personal opinions, even though complete objectiveness is impossible due to the fact that the image must be first observed by yours truly before I can present it further.

If I thought you were an idiot, I would have simply posted this and called it a day. 8)

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/venting.png

Note that due to the private nature of this conversation, I have no more goals here, so unless you want to present me something that I don't that you think matters, I would like to keep any debate to a minimum, as it's probably impossible to convince you after failing to do so with the above statements, and there are no one else to convince. Even if I happened to convince you eventually, it's simply not worth all the trouble.

When you're done and about to head towards #sda to have a bit of a collective trash talk marathon about me, tell DK64_master that I hate him, will you? :madpunch:

That is all.

It seems Cremator would rather be able to air his grievances with me in public, so I'm putting his PM here.

[quote]You're restricting my ability to answer you in public and you're putting words into my mouth that I cannot correct. Not very nice of you, hmm? ;) I should have known better than to give a mod a chance to lock the thread and walk away. Not that it matters much except you're making me look bad without any chance to finish what I started, thus explaining myself.

I don't know you. You don't know me. Correct so far? Alright, what if I were to tell you that what you are and what I am is irrelevant? Only the reflection that is given via a chunk of text matters. Your very first sentence was:

It attracts people like this.

which includes both a negative assumption of what you're linking to, and misleading information through that. Let's refine that sentence:

TASVideos attract people who complain about speedrunners' idle action of choice.

That does not completely hold true as we have already had this very same conversation here at SDA months before this happened, only in slightly different words. He did complain about the lack of graphical beauty in some runs, but that was explained soon after and he recognized that. All this happened before you entered the picture.

Now, if your posts in the thread were honestly being friendly, I don't want to be friend, now or in the future.

I know very little about TASvideos as a community, or what you were really discussing in more or less private terms (which, in this case, shall refer to anything outside of SDA's or TASvideos' public forums), so take this as an observation of an outsider. For someone who hasn't really spoken to someone else (in this case, Warp), the way you expressed your amusement leaves much to be desired. It could even be interpreted as a negative tone, even. In any case, since you didn't know the guy (going with your own description of the events), it cannot be, under any circumistance, be considered "friendly".

Belittling someone and bluntly ruling out someone's opinions (slightly rudely put as they may be) isn't being nice to someone. At least, not in my book.

Um, ok. I'm surprised you are trying to tell me what I was thinking. Not very nice of you. I don't presume to know other people better than they know themselves.

I never said I know what you are thinking. I'm speaking about your reflected image you yourself have given, especially to people who do not frequent #sda to verify those claims. Maybe if you hadn't tried to wash your hands so actively your hands off the whole affair, I probably even wouldn't have bothered, but you're trying so hard to get back on your high horse after descending among the commoners that it looks ridiculous.

Obviously, I may have been harsh with my choice of words in this PM, probably more than intented. Try not to get entangled in that, and go for the meaning. After all, I'm not known for my good English, apparently. But hey, you can always mock me afterwards. Just try not let the main points slide off your focus, alright? :-* Okay.

By saying I trust your mental capabilities to churn out the meaning in this incomprehensible mess is again, not based on guessing, but on observation, as you have demonstrated your ability to understand and process things that are presented to you. As such, it's an image you yourself have given and has very little to do with my personal opinions, even though complete objectiveness is impossible due to the fact that the image must be first observed by yours truly before I can present it further.

If I thought you were an idiot, I would have simply posted this and called it a day. 8)

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/venting.png

Note that due to the private nature of this conversation, I have no more goals here, so unless you want to present me something that I don't that you think matters, I would like to keep any debate to a minimum, as it's probably impossible to convince you after failing to do so with the above statements, and there are no one else to convince. Even if I happened to convince you eventually, it's simply not worth all the trouble.

When you're done and about to head towards #sda to have a bit of a collective trash talk marathon about me, tell DK64_master that I hate him, will you? :madpunch:

That is all.[/quote]

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2008-04-10 12:00:32 am

2008-04-09 11:59:32 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

And this post is my reply:

[hr]

Quote:

You're restricting my ability to answer you in public and you're putting words into my mouth that I cannot correct. Not very nice of you, hmm? Wink

I should have known better than to give a mod a chance to lock the thread and walk away. Not that it matters much except you're making me look bad without any chance to finish what I started, thus explaining myself.

Like I said, bad timing. I was already going to lock the thread. I'm not trying to make you look bad either. If you really want also, I can edit my last post to put in some stuff you want to say. Actually, you sound like you would rather this be in public. I would too (it makes me look better and less like a chicken lol), so I'm going to add this to the thread. Please respond that you don't want me to if you don't, but I guess I rather would myself. Also I want to lock this thread again, but I will let you post in it first.

Quote:

Your very first sentence was:

It attracts people like this.

Let me be 100% serious here. I meant this to be facetious, I assumed people would take that to be facetious, and if someone else made such a post (unless I knew them better, like sdkess) I would assume the same thing. Maybe if I put a smiley, you would have picked up on it too, but it would have ruined the effect.

Also you got the translation wrong. It's like: "tasvideos attracts people who like to bitch and argue." I already told you, I don't even care about the topic at hand. Maybe you got the wrong impression from my parallel thread title. I don't actually hate anything about tasvideos at all.

Quote:

Now, if your posts in the thread were honestly being friendly, I don't want to be friend, now or in the future.

I didn't say I was being friendly. I said I wasn't being hateful. I only thought it was worth posting because my first thought was "this is the kind of thread I bet Warp would make" and then it was, which I thought was funny.

Oh and fortunately (or unfortunately) for you, I find it hard in my personality to dislike anyone, that's just how I am. There's honestly not a single person at this site I dislike, or I am on anything near bad terms with. I see you are trying your best though, seems like a reflection on you really.

Quote:

you're trying so hard to get back on your high horse after descending among the commoners that it looks ridiculous.

I have no clue what you are even talking about. The only time I even remotely act officially at all is SDA business like the news updates. I have no high horse. I'm a doofus who thinkings everything is funny or awesome and says lol a lot. I just realized, this whole thing is about Tiki's MM comments right? lol

Quote:

When you're done and about to head towards #sda to have a bit of a collective trash talk marathon about me, tell DK64_master that I hate him, will you? :madpunch:

You really have a wrong conception of this whole thing, don't you? Nobody is talking about you on IRC. Nobody hates you. Nobody is talking behind your back. Nobody cares. This whole thread is a non-issue. Not a single person asked why this thread was locked. Here is the entirety of what was said:

<jewyama> <Enhasa> mike, i had to euthanize the "one thing i hate" thread <--- like I said, no one would top your first reason
<Enhasa> and mike, yeah i dunno what i was thinking
<Enhasa> that was bound to be like an omega4 thread from the start
[note: this means that the first post cannot be topped]

I will tell DK64_Master you hate him though. Man though, if you can hate DK64, you can hate anyone. Wink

And this post is my reply:

[hr]

[quote]You're restricting my ability to answer you in public and you're putting words into my mouth that I cannot correct. Not very nice of you, hmm? ;) I should have known better than to give a mod a chance to lock the thread and walk away. Not that it matters much except you're making me look bad without any chance to finish what I started, thus explaining myself.[/quote]
Like I said, bad timing. I was already going to lock the thread. I'm not trying to make you look bad either. If you really want also, I can edit my last post to put in some stuff you want to say. [b]Actually, you sound like you would [i]rather[/i] this be in public. I would too (it makes me look better and less like a chicken lol), so I'm going to add this to the thread. Please respond that you don't want me to if you don't, but I guess I rather would myself. Also I want to lock this thread again, but I will let you post in it first.[/b]

[quote]Your very first sentence was:

It attracts people like this.[/quote]
Let me be 100% serious here. I meant this to be facetious, I assumed people would take that to be facetious, and if someone else made such a post (unless I knew them better, like sdkess) I would assume the same thing. Maybe if I put a smiley, you would have picked up on it too, but it would have ruined the effect.

Also you got the translation wrong. It's like: "tasvideos attracts people who like to bitch and argue." I already told you, I don't even care about the topic at hand. Maybe you got the wrong impression from my parallel thread title. I don't actually hate anything about tasvideos at all.

[quote]Now, if your posts in the thread were honestly being friendly, I don't want to be friend, now or in the future.[/quote]
I didn't say I was being friendly. I said I wasn't being hateful. I only thought it was worth posting because my first thought was "this is the kind of thread I bet Warp would make" and then it was, which I thought was funny.

Oh and fortunately (or unfortunately) for you, I find it hard in my personality to dislike anyone, that's just how I am. There's honestly not a single person at this site I dislike, or I am on anything near bad terms with. I see you are trying your best though, seems like a reflection on you really.

[quote]you're trying so hard to get back on your high horse after descending among the commoners that it looks ridiculous.[/quote]
I have no clue what you are even talking about. The only time I even remotely act officially at all is SDA business like the news updates. I have no high horse. I'm a doofus who thinkings everything is funny or awesome and says lol a lot. I just realized, this whole thing is about Tiki's MM comments right? lol

[quote]When you're done and about to head towards #sda to have a bit of a collective trash talk marathon about me, tell DK64_master that I hate him, will you? :madpunch:[/quote]
You really have a wrong conception of this whole thing, don't you? Nobody is talking about you on IRC. Nobody hates you. Nobody is talking behind your back. Nobody cares. This whole thread is a non-issue. Not a single person asked why this thread was locked. Here is the entirety of what was said:

<jewyama> <Enhasa> mike, i had to euthanize the "one thing i hate" thread <--- like I said, no one would top your first reason
<Enhasa> and mike, yeah i dunno what i was thinking  
<Enhasa> that was bound to be like an omega4 thread from the start
[note: this means that the first post cannot be topped]

I will tell DK64_Master you hate him though. Man though, if you can hate DK64, you can hate anyone. ;)

Lucid Faia

2008-04-10 01:27:51 am

Yeah, I said it.

...

Speed Demos Archive is a black hole of insecurity.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2008-04-10 06:59:40 pm

2008-04-10 01:34:32 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Don't hate!

PS you need to post in the MBTI thread lol

Edit: Cremator got straightened out with me via PM, so it's all cool I guess. He said he didn't want to reply to this thread anymore anyway, so I support Lag.com lockage! (even though I had to temporarily unlock just to edit this)

Lag.Com

2008-04-10 10:37:06 am

sda loyalist

ok it would look stupid if Enhasa locked this so I will