One thing I hate about tool-assisted speedruns

Enhasa

2008-04-06 05:09:39 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

It attracts people like this.

http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6695&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Thread title:

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2008-04-06 05:24:34 am

2008-04-06 05:15:13 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Well no one can top that reason. You all can try, but you won't win.

Tiki

2008-04-06 05:26:26 am

I don't even know what the fuck this is

LigerOfFortune can top that reason. Easily!

Lucid Faia

2008-04-06 06:09:21 am

Yeah, I said it.

Quote:

It attracts people like this.

http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6695&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I assume you're talking about the topic creator? It's actually not a bad observation. In contrast to tool-assisted runs, speed runs are about "human limitations such as skill and reflex." The goal is performance, not aesthetics. If we made speed runs for the sake of entertainment, rather than overcoming personal and community bests, it would be an exercise in futility, because TASes will always be more entertaining.

BoltR

2008-04-06 06:09:46 am

yes, mario riding nothing

How have you manged to miss that thread until now? People have been joking about it pretty regularly in IRC since it was created weeks ago.

Axel Ryman

2008-04-06 06:16:56 am

We all scream for Eyes Cream

Eh the way I see things is like this.

They bring up what the runner does in one of the runs with the Nightvision thing. Its their run, they can do what they want. Its like I say: "Don't like it don't watch it then." I do hate some of the things that are done in a TAS run, but I still watch it cause I want to see the rest of it, and most of it is enjoyable. Same goes with normal speedruns. Some of the things are a little annoying, but its the actual run, not some side entertainment.

They also brought up on a run's quality because of settings. Well Console > PC when it comes to recording, as recording programs cause games to slow then when at high settings, especially when you don't got the best computer available. For all we know the runner probably plays it at the highest settings, but had to change it for the purpose of the run.

Not only that, but just getting a new computer is pretty costly. Seriously I can't buy a new computer if my life needed one. Money right now is tight and I can barely spare enough as is for other things at the moment. College does drain that bank account pretty quickly, and don't forget other expenses like bills, groceries, clothing, and other necessities. Not everyone comes from a rich family.

And before anyone says it, YES I DO HAVE A JOB.

Just my 2 cents on this.

Eh the way I see things is like this.

They bring up what the runner does in one of the runs with the Nightvision thing. Its their run, they can do what they want. Its like I say: "Don't like it don't watch it then." I do hate some of the things that are done in a TAS run, but I still watch it cause I want to see the rest of it, and most of it is enjoyable. Same goes with normal speedruns. Some of the things are a little annoying, but its the actual run, not some side entertainment.

They also brought up on a run's quality because of settings. Well Console > PC when it comes to recording, as recording programs cause games to slow then when at high settings, especially when you don't got the best computer available. For all we know the runner probably plays it at the highest settings, but had to change it for the purpose of the run.

Not only that, but just getting a new computer is pretty costly. Seriously I can't buy a new computer if my life needed one. Money right now is tight and I can barely spare enough as is for other things at the moment. College does drain that bank account pretty quickly, and don't forget other expenses like bills, groceries, clothing, and other necessities. Not everyone comes from a rich family.

And before anyone says it, YES I DO HAVE A JOB.

Just my 2 cents on this.

Enhasa

2008-04-06 06:17:09 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

He actually complains and says he hates speedruns because they should be all about entertainment, but they're not. So I don't think you agree with him, Lucid.

His post doesn't really make any sense though. He wants entertainment, but his 2 gripes are:

1) ADHD in runs (note: you may disagree that they are entertaining, but the people doing them think they're entertaining and that's why they're done)
2) capturing at low settings so that the fps will be good, but the hi-res textures worse (I would venture most people think low framerate and worse play quality as a result is less entertaining, not the other way around)

He is pro-entertainment but both his suggestions are anti-entertainment.

Lucid Faia

Edit history:

Lucid Faia: 2008-04-06 06:46:56 am

2008-04-06 06:33:35 am

Yeah, I said it.

No, I don't agree that speed runs should be about entertainment. I kind of ignored that part of the post; I interpreted it as a footnote, not as his main argument.

spineshark

2008-04-06 06:36:08 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

potkettle?

TheQuietMan

Edit history:

TheQuietMan: 2008-04-06 06:43:21 am

2008-04-06 06:37:58 am

Complete. Global. Saturation.

This guy is like one of those kids that looks at a book and complains that there are no pictures.

groobo

2008-04-06 10:23:11 am

boss

rofl racist

Lag.Com

2008-04-06 10:37:28 am

sda loyalist

I did write a reply to him in that thread, but every bit of it seems to have been ignored.

TheQuietMan

Edit history:

TheQuietMan: 2008-04-06 07:45:22 pm

2008-04-06 02:02:27 pm

Complete. Global. Saturation.

Quote:

rofl racist

Silence you gaming community joke, you did not record the fastest FEAR times ever with the graphics at their maximum quality. I was not entertained by this run because it was quite painful. Had you submitted this to my superior speedrun site, I would have rejected it because I could not look at the pretty colors. You should have watched the cutscenes too! Angry

Yes, that was a parody.

Lucid Faia

2008-04-06 06:57:05 pm

Yeah, I said it.

Quote:

I did write a reply to him in that thread, but every bit of it seems to have been ignored.

Why don't you complain about it? Smiley

Zurreco

2008-04-06 07:55:43 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

Poor Warp. We make fun of him enough as it is over on those forums, and now he gets his own aggro thread over here too.

It's best to never try to talk with Warp head on, lest you like him beating dead horses in the hopes that you will concede defeat to him. He is what Nach would be if Nach couldn't hide behind ZSNES, or what Phil would be if Phil couldn't hide behind 2 frame time savers.

RJWaters2

2008-04-06 09:11:03 pm

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

Proof that this guy can't be given any merit:
3rd page of TASvideos topic:

Quote:

Warp says:
IMO segmented runs (with restarts possible eg. at the beginning of each level) actually display *more* of the player's skill, not less.

Why? Because with a single-segment run the player is forced to play more carefully and cannot try the wildest tricks he is capable of, if those tricks are very dangerous and could easily cause the player to die, thus ruining the entire attempt.

A segmented run, however, allows for the player to truely show his skill at the game, without having to worry so much about dying and ruining 30 minutes of gameplay.

The Quake done Quick speedruns are the quintessential example of this: They are polished to almost perfection, showing almost superhuman skills from the players. True playing skills. A single-segment Quake run would simply hinder the player and forbid him from even trying the craziest stunts. Thus we wouldn't see as much playing skill in a single-segment run.

I follow no logic in this post. Tea kettle.

Proof that this guy can't be given any merit:
3rd page of TASvideos topic:
[quote]Warp says:
IMO segmented runs (with restarts possible eg. at the beginning of each level) actually display *more* of the player's skill, not less.

Why? Because with a single-segment run the player is forced to play more carefully and cannot try the wildest tricks he is capable of, if those tricks are very dangerous and could easily cause the player to die, thus ruining the entire attempt.

A segmented run, however, allows for the player to truely show his skill at the game, without having to worry so much about dying and ruining 30 minutes of gameplay.

The Quake done Quick speedruns are the quintessential example of this: They are polished to almost perfection, showing almost superhuman skills from the players. True playing skills. A single-segment Quake run would simply hinder the player and forbid him from even trying the craziest stunts. Thus we wouldn't see as much playing skill in a single-segment run.[/quote]

I follow no logic in this post. Tea kettle.

Lag.Com

2008-04-06 09:19:02 pm

sda loyalist

His logic is fine (in that excerpt), it follows naturally from his opinion. Don't assume someone's reasoning is wrong just because you don't agree with their initial assumptions.

RJWaters2

2008-04-06 09:24:58 pm

two rows of links on main page pretty nifty

It is contradictory. Following the logic in his example of the Quake done quick runs, a TAS would have more skill shown, as it expresses 'superhuman playing ability'.

Lag.Com

2008-04-06 10:01:17 pm

sda loyalist

It doesn't even mention tool-assistance. That isn't part of that excerpt.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2008-04-06 11:43:45 pm

2008-04-06 11:39:59 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Is anybody else thinking that the technical knowledge of the people is causing some arguments?

"My computer is about 3 years old and it can play FEAR at almost maximum settings (only soft shadows make it too slow). If this speedrunner can only play the game at the lowest possible settings it means his computer must be over 5 years old or something."

TAS Videos = Ignorant

"because I agree with Warp; some of the SDA runs are so goddamn dark and graphically lifeless, I can't see what the fuck is going on most of the time."

^ Not really SDA fault is it?

TheQuietMan

Edit history:

TheQuietMan: 2008-04-07 09:03:50 pm

2008-04-07 12:08:02 am

Complete. Global. Saturation.

Like it's been said, this guy is going for entertainment, and thinks that is all speedruns should be about. I agree with him when he says people shouldn't be doing stupid crap like the night vision switching on and off in the Half Life 2 run, but all the less annoying stuff (that doesn't look like someone is having a seizure or causing one) is fine with me, just as long as they don't do it for too long.
He also thinks that we can just submit our runs to this site and get them posted right away no matter what the gameplay quality is like. Apparently, he isn't aware of our verification process, despite hating us so much.

It's all about going for the faster time, and if you have to turn graphics down in order to get maximum speed, especially if you can't afford updates to your computer or are using a family one or something, what's the big deal? Games aren't about graphics anyway. Shouldn't someone who specializes in tool assistance for the best times realize this? But I guess that's where the entertainment/speed debate starts all over again.

Like it's been said, this guy is going for entertainment, and thinks that is all speedruns should be about. I agree with him when he says people shouldn't be doing stupid crap like the night vision switching on and off in the Half Life 2 run, but all the less annoying stuff (that doesn't look like someone is having a seizure or causing one) is fine with me, just as long as they don't do it for too long.
He also thinks that we can just submit our runs to this site and get them posted right away no matter what the gameplay quality is like. Apparently, he isn't aware of our verification process, despite hating us so much.

It's all about going for the faster time, and if you have to turn graphics down in order to get maximum speed, especially if you can't afford updates to your computer or are using a family one or something, what's the big deal? Games aren't about graphics anyway. Shouldn't someone who specializes in tool assistance for the best times realize this? But I guess that's where the entertainment/speed debate starts all over again.

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2008-04-07 12:22:20 am

2008-04-07 12:21:46 am

Quote:

"because I agree with Warp; some of the SDA runs are so goddamn dark and graphically lifeless, I can't see what the fuck is going on most of the time."

^ Not really SDA fault is it?

Quote:

Is anybody else thinking that the technical knowledge of the people is causing some arguments?

"My computer is about 3 years old and it can play FEAR at almost maximum settings (only soft shadows make it too slow). If this speedrunner can only play the game at the lowest possible settings it means his computer must be over 5 years old or something."

TAS Videos = Ignorant

^ Not really TASVideos' fault, is it?

Surely you see the irony in that post as well, Greg?

Zurreco

2008-04-07 12:30:37 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote:

TAS Videos = Ignorant

Mmm yes, the whole site and forums are ignorant because of one person's comment. Excellent. Well played.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2008-04-07 03:29:38 am

2008-04-07 03:27:21 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Quote:

Mmm yes, the whole site and forums are ignorant because of one person's comment. Excellent. Well played.

One persons comment?

I looked and saw 4 pages of squabbles and people not coming to an agreement.

TAS and normal speedruns are both good. That's all they had to say. Tongue

Carcinogen

2008-04-07 06:19:50 am

Quote:

One persons comment?

I looked and saw 4 pages of squabbles and people not coming to an agreement.

TAS and normal speedruns are both good. That's all they had to say. Tongue

Be a little more astute.