Okage: Shadow King

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-02-01 11:41:36 am

Equinox: 2013-02-01 11:30:30 am

2013-02-01 11:07:46 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Again, I post out of mere boredom, and I completed the sewer, a dungeon that shouldn't even be in the game imho. The dungeon was excruciatingly(is that how you spell that?) difficult to plan out, it took me several days of literally drawing the dungeon to plan the fastest route. Its split into 3 parts, east, west and north, and they are done in that order. There are 12 urns to kill, low level urns WTF they don't even give hardly any EXP or money....waste of time. Luckily its faster to guidance jewel to the top after each wing, making it easy to segment. I only allowed 1 RE in here. Now I am on chapter 5 where Ari gets afflicted with whatever you wanna call it. Just hit the 3:00 mark.

My studies indicate you need 20 conversations in total to restore Ari's form, with no discrimination against whether there is more than 1 person involved, best part is I got to stay out Rashello AND Ari's godforsaken house. There are 24 conversations to choose from, and the fact that most are indoors, and some are not needs to be addressed.

Again, I post out of mere boredom, and I completed the sewer, a dungeon that shouldn't even be in the game imho. The dungeon was excruciatingly(is that how you spell that?) difficult to plan out, it took me several days of literally drawing the dungeon to plan the fastest route. Its split into 3 parts, east, west and north, and they are done in that order. There are 12 urns to kill, low level urns WTF they don't even give hardly any EXP or money....waste of time. Luckily its faster to guidance jewel to the top after each wing, making it easy to segment. I only allowed 1 RE in here. Now I am on chapter 5 where Ari gets afflicted with whatever you wanna call it. Just hit the 3:00 mark.

My studies indicate you need 20 conversations in total to restore Ari's  form, with no discrimination against whether there is more than 1 person involved, best part is I got to stay out Rashello AND Ari's godforsaken house. There are 24 conversations to choose from, and the fact that most are indoors, and some are not needs to be addressed.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-02-05 01:29:27 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:52:09 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:49:46 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:49:09 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:48:12 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:45:02 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:43:36 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:40:14 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:26:41 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:25:48 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:22:04 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:17:50 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:16:36 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:15:52 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:13:28 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:12:17 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:12:15 pm

Equinox: 2013-02-05 12:11:19 pm

2013-02-05 12:06:32 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

This has got to be the most puzzling part of any speedrun I have ever attempted without prior knowledge of how to do it. Essentially the game is divided into 6 blocks, each separated by a financial decision. This "block" I am in is the 5th one, which starts in Triste with me spending a lot of money, around 50k in total on gear and items. Despite everyone who has seemed to have attempted this game so far, I was keen to remind them of this segment, and how it impacts the rest of the game. Sadly, I don't think they got this far, and I feel kind of bad because my encouragement and help given to them may have made them feel overcommitted, this crap needs to be taken slowly, I have learned that now. Not everyone operates well under expectations.

The character issue is becoming a cockblock. The issue is that PEK is etheral, or cannot be hit with melee, and the last boss hits very hard, has 9999 HP and can hit the entire party for heavy damage at once, meaning there will be some recovery. One boss needs magic damage, the other needs a crapload of melee and recovery.

We are looking at a 5 hour run in 28-30 segments, each segment is usually 5-15 minutes. I am still unsure how many segments the last dungeon is going to be, its not the longest but I am sure guidance jeweling to the start after grabbing a key will be fastest. I am also unsure of how much grinding I will need to do, the party comes out of the highlands at around level 41-42, that may be too low to do the boss at, if he one shots Ari then its most certainly too low. I don't think I have ever gone in there below level 50 before. If I have to grind I wouldn't need very many battles, 2 of them would level me 3 times, and I can just do the battles while grabbing the keys.

I noticed around 5 people lurking this thread. Hi Wink

This has got to be the most puzzling part of any speedrun I have ever attempted without prior knowledge of how to do it.  Essentially the game is divided into 6 blocks, each separated by a financial decision. This "block" I am in is the 5th one, which starts in Triste with me spending a lot of money, around 50k in total on gear and items. Despite everyone who has seemed to have attempted this game so far, I was keen to remind them of this segment, and how it impacts the rest of the game. Sadly, I don't think they got this far, and I feel kind of bad because my encouragement and help given to them may have made them feel overcommitted, this crap needs to be taken slowly, I have learned that now. Not everyone operates well under expectations.

The character issue is becoming a cockblock. The issue is that PEK is etheral, or cannot be hit with melee, and the last boss hits very hard, has 9999 HP and can hit the entire party for heavy damage at once, meaning there will be some recovery. One boss needs magic damage, the other needs a crapload of melee and recovery.

We are looking at a 5 hour run in 28-30 segments, each segment is usually 5-15 minutes. I am still unsure how many segments the last dungeon is going to be, its not the longest but I am sure guidance jeweling to the start after grabbing a key will be fastest. I am also unsure of how much grinding I will need to do, the party comes out of the highlands at around level 41-42, that may be too low to do the boss at, if he one shots Ari then its most certainly too low. I don't think I have ever gone in there below level 50 before. If I have to grind I wouldn't need very many battles, 2 of them would level me 3 times, and I can just do the battles while grabbing the keys.

I noticed around 5 people lurking this thread. Hi ;)

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-02-14 01:16:21 am

2013-02-14 01:15:32 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Whew I've been really busy with college, anyway the Deep Grave Pit, aka the butthole, needs to be split into 2 halves due to the fact that the urns keep dropping 'wild strawberries' instead of the massive '~4000 Sukel' cash per drop. PITA to get even 4 in a row and not get 1 to drop, so instead I will probably be cutting it off somewhere(There's 10 floors FFS), it wastes 2 minutes, but hell, to guarantee all the money its worth it. If I didn't do this I could lose as much as 30K+ by the end of this, though I am still unsure how much of it I will actually need, I won't be swimming in 150K items or anything. It is also a 55 minute segment otherwise.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-02-24 02:30:18 am

Equinox: 2013-02-24 02:29:58 am

Equinox: 2013-02-24 02:28:30 am

Equinox: 2013-02-24 02:28:07 am

Equinox: 2013-02-24 02:27:09 am

Equinox: 2013-02-24 02:26:43 am

2013-02-24 02:25:33 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Well, I haven't given this up, and since talking about planning is a good thing, I figured I would talk some more. First things first my computer was utterly devastated by failures of: Hard drive, graphics card, motherboard.

The computer was 7 years old and I was able to retrieve the data off the hard drive, which is good because there was lots of planning material and rare video game soundtracks on there, including the Okage: Shadow King one. I won't be able to resume the run until March 5th or so, which leaves me incredibly bored except for college. This is coming from a cheaper lap top we have that can't really play games.

The run had left off half way through the Deep Grave pit where I was attempting to test some end times with several different groups and strategies as I grew closer to challenging Epros, who many consider to be the most difficult boss in the game due to his high magic power and invulnerability to melee, but I can tell you with planning hes just a bit luck reliant. I have considered using Ari's decoy in this battle regardless of the group, as it makes the boss's attacks predictable, and Ari takes magic attacks really well compared to the other characters, a Maximum Voltage on Rosalyn or Big Bull hurts them very very badly, Kisling can't take much of it either due to his low HP.

Well, I haven't given this up, and since talking about planning is a good thing, I figured I would talk some more. First things first my computer was utterly devastated by failures of: Hard drive, graphics card, motherboard.

The computer was 7 years old and I was able to retrieve the data off the hard drive, which is good because there was lots of planning material and rare video game soundtracks on there, including the Okage: Shadow King one. I won't be able to resume the run until March 5th or so, which leaves me incredibly bored except for college. This is coming from a cheaper lap top we have that can't really play games.

The run had left off half way through the Deep Grave pit where I was attempting to test some end times with several different groups and strategies as I grew closer to challenging Epros, who many consider to be the most difficult boss in the game due to his high magic power and invulnerability to melee, but I can tell you with planning hes just a bit luck reliant. I have considered using Ari's decoy in this battle regardless of the group, as it makes the boss's attacks predictable, and Ari takes magic attacks really well compared to the other characters, a Maximum Voltage on Rosalyn or Big Bull hurts them very very badly, Kisling can't take much of it either due to his low HP.

Equinox

2013-03-14 04:12:31 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

The computer is up and running, but I haven't had time to work on this. College is being a bit demanding, not even spring break got me any time off. I managed to dig up my old files in word about this, looking over them I think I saw a few things early on the run I didn't try, but need to to establish the fastest boss methodology possible.

Equinox

2013-04-02 10:04:32 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

I am anxious to get back to this, but college has been a burden as of late. I have been keeping track of my footage and notes so even if I don't get back to this until the summer, I will be able to pick up right where I left off. Starcraft II has sucked me into it again, combined with the outrageous need to practice coding and tend to college I am locked down atm.

Ghoul02

Edit history:

Ghoul02: 2013-05-26 10:04:52 am

2013-05-26 10:04:41 am

www.twitch.tv/ghoul02

I'm kinda curious now, what do you think a segmented run could get it down to? I'm looking into picking up a game for speedrunning, and I remembered this old gem...

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:46:20 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:44:15 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:43:32 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:42:38 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:40:50 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:39:36 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:36:18 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:35:30 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:15:36 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:15:13 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 06:02:03 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 05:48:41 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 05:48:12 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 05:12:02 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 05:11:47 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:47:26 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:44:11 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:42:15 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:41:20 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:39:32 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:34:57 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:33:51 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:29:24 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:28:27 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:25:42 am

Equinox: 2013-05-27 04:24:00 am

2013-05-27 04:20:52 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Gem? Yes its kind of funny its so unknown even to some jrpg fanatics, the art style is very unique.

I got back into this several nights ago since finals were over and I had planned to get back to it sooner but ever since the computer thing and march...schools a @%$#. I had left off in the middle of that god forsaken dungeon where I was drawing maps of it (probably a good idea as they are repetitive and confusing). In terms of time I am pretty sure it will be under 5 hours. One of the 'safety' or backup save files I made in Triste before going to the deep grave pit was at 3:25, but I know it could be better, this is still the preliminary run. Note that those times are from using a hardware backwards compatible PS3 which may have faster load times than a PS2 however this seems very debatable.

I feel shaving time off a lot of the boss fights is going to take time, they are so luck reliant and I wasn't willing to wait this time. I was waiting to upload/post anything until I recorded the Epros fight when I got to him(That will be exciting when I get there). I am very happy I made such in depth notes because its helped me know what I have already done and I knew it would which is why I tried to write everything down when I figured out I had to stop this for a while. Sadly though none of my footage survived my computer getting destroyed. Cry

I wouldn't mind if somebody else started running this with me, a lot of my side notes have been posted here mostly out of sheer boredom. Part of the reason I have posted so much was to try and get people 'aware'.

Gem? Yes its kind of funny its so unknown even to some jrpg fanatics, the art style is very unique.

I got back into this several nights ago since finals were over and I had planned to get back to it sooner but ever since the computer thing and march...schools a @%$#. I had left off in the middle of that god forsaken dungeon where I was drawing maps of it (probably a good idea as they are repetitive and confusing). In terms of time I am pretty sure it will be under 5 hours. One of the 'safety' or backup save files I made in Triste before going to the deep grave pit was at 3:25, but  I know it could be better, this is still the preliminary run. Note that those times are from using a hardware backwards compatible PS3 which may have faster load times than a PS2 however this seems very debatable.

I feel shaving time off a lot of the boss fights is going to take time, they are so luck reliant and I wasn't willing to wait this time. I was waiting to upload/post anything until I recorded the Epros fight when I got to him(That will be exciting when I get there). I am very happy I made such in depth notes because its helped me know what I have already done and I knew it would which is why I tried to write everything down when I figured out I had to stop this for a while. Sadly though none of my footage survived my computer getting destroyed. :'(

I wouldn't mind if somebody else started running this with me, a lot of my side notes have been posted here mostly out of sheer boredom. Part of the reason I have posted so much was to try and get people 'aware'.

Ghoul02

2013-05-27 03:11:27 pm

www.twitch.tv/ghoul02

I'm definitely considering it. I'd need to replay it and see exactly what I remember, but it was a fun game that deserves some kind of run...

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:41:54 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:41:33 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:14:32 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:13:49 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:12:56 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:12:00 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:11:38 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:10:10 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 01:05:21 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 12:28:09 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 12:27:03 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 12:26:08 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 12:20:32 am

Equinox: 2013-06-01 12:20:02 am

2013-06-01 12:18:28 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

I would expect the preliminary run to be over in 2 weeks, which means I will finally have a solid time estimate. I said under 5 hours, but that doesn't say a lot. I am on the 5/9 floor of this place and the timer is at 3:50, but as much as a 10-15 minute reduction could be in place in the real run, especially with new time saving techniques and improved skill.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-06-08 11:28:37 pm

Equinox: 2013-06-08 11:26:16 pm

Equinox: 2013-06-08 11:24:35 pm

Equinox: 2013-06-08 11:24:26 pm

Equinox: 2013-06-08 11:23:49 pm

Equinox: 2013-06-08 11:23:16 pm

2013-06-08 11:22:45 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

That Phantom Evil King is a pretty cool guy, he 2 shots Rosalyn and aren't afraid of anything. Undecided

It doesn't help he uses electric (Yellow) moves, so Rosalyn, who is Ice (Blue), takes super effective damage because of the mechanics(Yellow --> Blue --> Red --> Yellow), I would say about 25% more damage results from this. I may put a video of this fight up.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-06-11 09:00:01 pm

Equinox: 2013-06-11 08:45:27 pm

2013-06-11 08:29:02 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

I don't think think the last boss can be killed at lvl 42(lowest level possible). To make matters worse I believe his physical combos get even deadlier towards the end.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-06-21 10:01:22 am

Equinox: 2013-06-21 09:15:16 am

Equinox: 2013-06-21 09:14:18 am

Equinox: 2013-06-21 09:12:44 am

2013-06-21 08:58:14 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

I made a separate save file and maxed all the characters' levels/gear out. I then went back to do some item hunting, looking for things earlier on that could use drop abuse that the faqs might have missed. Sadly though, all the items are either garbage 1 use items/defensive equips, or very very good items that are too luck reliant to grab in the middle of a long segment. I have been looking for any small things that could change the course of the run I have been planning before I start doing the real deal.

Equinox

2013-08-15 01:43:28 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Been trying to figure out this last part, still can't figure out what's fastest. I have checked around on PS2 emulators, hoping it might make determining the fastest route a lot easier. For an RPG, even with RNG, the segment I am most concerned with producing identical playthroughs in with different formulas is very linear and I hope the save states can help me.

rudyxx

2013-08-15 06:46:48 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I don't know how much it would effect this game, but it's sometimes really bad to practice rpgs using save states since some values are loaded at system on. Just an FYI.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-08-16 07:55:11 am

Equinox: 2013-08-16 07:54:34 am

Equinox: 2013-08-16 01:14:11 am

Equinox: 2013-08-16 01:13:57 am

Equinox: 2013-08-16 01:13:20 am

Equinox: 2013-08-16 01:12:42 am

Equinox: 2013-08-16 01:12:16 am

Equinox: 2013-08-16 01:10:58 am

Equinox: 2013-08-16 01:10:12 am

2013-08-16 01:08:52 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

I didn't think of it as practice really. It was just for comparisons and to explore the functionality of the game. The problem is laaaag! Terrible lag and I have a fairly decent computer. I can't even get to the first moment of movement before I have to shut off the emulator for fear of my computer crashing. I wonder if there is something I'm doing wrong because this isn't a very graphic intensive game really.

Equinox

2013-08-17 05:27:13 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

I figured out the reason my ISO won't play is because it's incomplete or damaged! It was a bad download or something. So while I wait for a real copy, I am still looking through the ISO I got. Once I mounted it I found a lot of stuff inside. I am looking for music mainly along with sounds. I came across what appears to be models and descriptions of all the characters and enemies. Ari's Japanese name is Lucan, Epros = Aepros, Rosalyn=Rosalie. It's been a lot of fun so far but I hope I can get a correct copy of the game, otherwise I will have to improvise. I am looking forward to see how save states can change the experimentation in Deep Grave Pit with different parties.

Equinox

2013-09-05 05:27:49 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

I checked around the internet and nobody seems to have figured out how the speed stat works. I don't think I have completely figured it out yet, but I noticed something interesting and it doesn't affect the speed run in any way(It could but not in a very significant way, nothing I have seen thus far shows this would have any use except 1 fight possibly and the only agility manipulation items there are are in the form of Bandit's Shoes(Linda default +1)).

Every character has a hard base speed stat called agility(Hard meaning outside of battle). This is what determines how fast the time bar fills up in combat for a character. The lowest possible agility stat obtainable is on Big Bull(default 42), this makes the action bar take 5 seconds exactly to fill. The fastest possible agility stat is held by Rosalyn(Default 60), this makes her time bar fill exactly 3 seconds. With the +10 Agility accessory Divine Shoes and one of her best weapons, she can attain 75 speed(1.633 Seconds!!), though this isn't going to happen in the run obviously.

Though hard agility seems to gradually make speed go up in a readily observable manner, temporary increases in battle such as through Kisling's Speedy or Hyperdrive spells are extremely different. Most RPGs will apply stat increases in battle as some fixed percentage to an already existing stat, but Okage is different. It would seem that an increase to a stat in battle is either a prefixed percentage or point increase that is completely dependent on the character that gets the increase. In other words Speedy might give one character a 20% increase to speed, another it might only give around 13% with no clear connection to a specific agility stat, even one shared by another character. I have only tested this with speed so far, but I have a feeling the same is true for the in battle defense and attack increases as well.

I checked around the internet and nobody seems to have figured out how the speed stat works. I don't think I have completely figured it out yet, but I noticed something interesting and it doesn't affect the speed run in any way(It could but not in a very significant way, nothing I have seen thus far shows this would have any use except 1 fight possibly and the only agility manipulation items there are are in the form of Bandit's Shoes(Linda default +1)).

Every character has a hard base speed stat called agility(Hard meaning outside of battle). This is what determines how fast the time bar fills up in combat for a character. The lowest possible agility stat obtainable is on Big Bull(default 42), this makes the action bar take 5 seconds exactly to fill. The fastest possible agility stat is held by Rosalyn(Default 60), this makes her time bar fill exactly 3 seconds. With the +10 Agility accessory Divine Shoes and one of her best weapons, she can attain 75 speed(1.633 Seconds!!), though this isn't going to happen in the run obviously.

Though hard agility seems to gradually make speed go up in a readily observable manner, temporary increases in battle such as through Kisling's Speedy or Hyperdrive spells are extremely different. Most RPGs will apply stat increases in battle as some fixed percentage to an already existing stat, but Okage is different. It would seem that an increase to a stat in battle is either a prefixed percentage or point increase that is completely dependent on the character that gets the increase. In other words Speedy might give one character a 20% increase to speed, another it might only give around 13% with no clear connection to a specific agility stat, even one shared by another character. I have only tested this with speed so far, but I have a feeling the same is true for the in battle defense and attack increases as well.

MetroAndroid

2013-11-15 12:54:38 am

I would seriously love to see some Okage speedruns. I really don't think I could be dedicated enough to keep with a speedrun though, but I seriously think it's awesome what you are doing!

Equinox

2013-11-16 04:18:49 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

Had to take a break from this for school I am close to my associates lol, thank you.

Dabbit

2014-01-10 10:13:14 pm

Greetings and Hello!

Just signed up, this is my very first post on the very first game I want to speedrun. I'm not familiar with the rules and regulations here (yet), so please forgive me if I do something out of turn; it's not intentional. I loved this game when I was younger and was shocked that there hasn't been a full, submitted speedrun of it yet and decided to help out in any way I can. I have no recording equipment at the moment, so I've mostly just been practicing and collecting data so far, which I wanted to share and hopefully start discussions on somethings. For example...

I came up with 5 different strats for beating the first fight of the game, in the basement of the church. I did each strat 10 times on a standard brick PlayStation2, starting the timer from tapping the 'X' button on the door to begin the sequence to start the fight, ending the timer at the moment the last enemy disappeared. For simplicity's sake, I'm only going to put the average times I ended up with, however if asked I can post all of the numbers. I also truncated all of the times. The strategies and the average times are below, with a more detailed explanation under that:

Strat 1: Normal attack Tricky Ghost, then the Perky Frogs. Average time: 43.9 seconds.
Strat 2: Overdrive + Burst attack, then normal attack the tricky Ghost. Average time: 48.3 seconds.
Strat 3: Overdrive, attack Tricky Ghost, then Perky Frogs. Average time: 49.4 seconds.
Strat 4: Normal attack the Perky Frogs, then normal attack the Tricky Ghost. Average time: 55.5
Strat 5: Select Wait and do nothing. Average time: 38 seconds.

I'm sure it's #5 that will have most people scratching their heads, so I'll elaborate on that first. When Ari is dropped by an attack (may be physical only, I'm not sure) to 25% health or below, Stan will activate his "Burning Devil" special attack, which does good damage to all enemies. In fact, it kills all 3 of the enemies in this fight in one shot. This strat has a serious problem though, where it will only work in the case where the 2 Perky frogs attack Ari at the same time. Any other combination of attacks will lead to death. Out of 10 attempts, I died 4 times. Since you skip any long animations and menu-ing, it saves time.

Strat 1 is the 2nd fastest and also the most stable, in terms of risk. It's the only strat I've thought of so far that resulted in 0 deaths and a very consistent time of 43 seconds.

Strat 2's times ranged from 43s to 55s. This is entirely dependent on whether or not the burst attack hits all enemies. If it does, it's tied for 2nd fastest, if it doesn't, it's the slowest.

Strat 3 seems like it should be faster, but it's just not. The extra time going through menu screens and the overdrive animation just adds up too quickly.

Strat 4 The Tricky Ghost has a relatively long attack animation, and this strat allows him to attack the most, and there's still lots of Menu-ing. I think that's where the extra time comes from.

---

So, while on the topic of strategies, I've (so far) managed to beat both SEK and BEK in a legitimate speedrun setting. In both battles I was forced to use a decent number of Nuts to heal my characters and keep Ari alive. Are there any known strategies that don't involve healing? If not, would it be better to go to the store in Tenel or Madril? Another thing I want to know is if upgrading Ari's equipment in Madril provides a significant time reduction or not. That will be my next set of tests.

A small improvement on Chapter 1 from DumpsterKnight's beta run: I confirmed you do NOT need to talk to guy in the yellow shirt outside of Tenel, when you're showing off Stan to the Villagers.

---

Questions: 1) When Kisling joins your party, he's equipped with an item called "HeatWave Ring", which says it "Deflects Attacks". I tried equipping this to Ari, but didn't notice a real reduction in the number of attacks or damage he was taking from enemies. Is anyone aware of how this works, or how it's supposed to? Does it sound like a good idea to anyone else out there?
2) Do the different colored ghosts mean anything? From what I can tell, they're just colors and have no impact on the enemies you encounter randomly.

---

And finally, one of the things I've been trying to do is figure out the encounter rate for each type of enemy encounter you can get in a given area. My hope with this is that if we ever decide that a drop from an enemy is necessary, that we can easily figure out the best area to find and battle them in, and which battle we want, specifically. Or if this is a huge waste of time, please tell me. As I said earlier, I'm brand new to all of this and don't understand the best practices for speedrunning (yet). I completed 100 battles in each area and recorded the results, which give a decent approximation to the encounter rate.

Area between Tenel and Madril: (Area 1)
1) Square Rhino (x1): Encounter Chance: 18%
2) Chicken Chicken (x2): Encounter Chance: 7%
3) Perky Frog (x1), Airy Bunny (x1): Encounter Chance: 12%
4) Chicken Chicken (x1): Encounter Chance: 6%
5) Man Eating Onion (x5): Encounter Chance: 11%
6) Man Eating Onion (x3): Encounter Chance: 9%
7) Airy Bunny (x1): Encounter Chance: 9%
8) Wild Cow (x1): Encounter Chance: 14%
9) Perky Frog (x2): Encounter Chance: 11%
10) Tricky Ghost (x1): Encounter Chance: 3%

Area between Madril and Rashelo: (Area 2)
1) Lurking Rat (x6): Encounter Chance: 14%
2) Perky Frog (x10): Encounter Chance: 11%
3) Crafty Crow (x3): Encounter Chance: 13%
4) Crafty Crow (x1), Walken Scarecrow (x1), Fierce Ghost (x1): Encounter Chance: 13%
5) Young Trent (x1): Encounter Chance: 15%
6) Lurking Rate (x4), Plucky Pachyderm (x2): Encounter Chance: 12%
7) Crafty Crow (x4), Walken Scarecrow (x1): Encounter Chance: 14%
8) Perky Frog (x3), Young Trent (x1): Encounter Chance: 8%

That's it for now! Please let me know if you have any questions/comments/concerns, or even if you have a request for some specific information. I like sitting down and getting numbers like this.

Greetings and Hello!

Just signed up, this is my very first post on the very first game I want to speedrun.  I'm not familiar with the rules and regulations here (yet), so please forgive me if I do something out of turn; it's not intentional.  I loved this game when I was younger and was shocked that there hasn't been a full, submitted speedrun of it yet and decided to help out in any way I can. I have no recording equipment at the moment, so I've mostly just been practicing and collecting data so far, which I wanted to share and hopefully start discussions on somethings.  For example...

I came up with 5 different strats for beating the first fight of the game, in the basement of the church.  I did each strat 10 times on a standard brick PlayStation2, starting the timer from tapping the 'X' button on the door to begin the sequence to start the fight, ending the timer at the moment the last enemy disappeared.  For simplicity's sake, I'm only going to put the average times I ended up with, however if asked I can post all of the numbers.  I also truncated all of the times. The strategies and the average times are below, with a more detailed explanation under that:

Strat 1:  Normal attack Tricky Ghost, then the Perky Frogs.  Average time: 43.9 seconds.
Strat 2:  Overdrive + Burst attack, then normal attack the tricky Ghost.  Average time:  48.3 seconds.
Strat 3:  Overdrive, attack Tricky Ghost, then Perky Frogs.  Average time: 49.4 seconds.
Strat 4:  Normal attack the Perky Frogs, then normal attack the Tricky Ghost.  Average time: 55.5
Strat 5:  Select Wait and do nothing.  Average time:  38 seconds.

I'm sure it's #5 that will have most people scratching their heads, so I'll elaborate on that first.  When Ari is dropped by an attack (may be physical only, I'm not sure) to 25% health or below, Stan will activate his "Burning Devil" special attack, which does good damage to all enemies.  In fact, it kills all 3 of the enemies in this fight in one shot.  This strat has a serious problem though, where it will only work in the case where the 2 Perky frogs attack Ari at the same time.  Any other combination of attacks will lead to death.  Out of 10 attempts, I died 4 times.  Since you skip any long animations and menu-ing, it saves time.

Strat 1 is the 2nd fastest and also the most stable, in terms of risk.  It's the only strat I've thought of so far that resulted in 0 deaths and a very consistent time of 43 seconds.

Strat 2's times ranged from 43s to 55s.  This is entirely dependent on whether or not the burst attack hits all enemies.  If it does, it's tied for 2nd fastest, if it doesn't, it's the slowest.

Strat 3 seems like it should be faster, but it's just not.  The extra time going through menu screens and the overdrive animation just adds up too quickly.

Strat 4  The Tricky Ghost has a relatively long attack animation, and this strat allows him to attack the most, and there's still lots of Menu-ing.  I think that's where the extra time comes from.

---

So, while on the topic of strategies, I've (so far) managed to beat both SEK and BEK in a legitimate speedrun setting.  In both battles I was forced to use a decent number of Nuts to heal my characters and keep Ari alive.  Are there any known strategies that don't involve healing?  If not, would it be better to go to the store in Tenel or Madril? Another thing I want to know is if upgrading Ari's equipment in Madril provides a significant time reduction or not.  That will be my next set of tests.

A small improvement on Chapter 1 from DumpsterKnight's beta run: I confirmed you do NOT need to talk to guy in the yellow shirt outside of Tenel, when you're showing off Stan to the Villagers.

---

Questions:  1)  When Kisling joins your party, he's equipped with an item called "HeatWave Ring", which says it "Deflects Attacks".  I tried equipping this to Ari, but didn't notice a real reduction in the number of attacks or damage he was taking from enemies.  Is anyone aware of how this works, or how it's supposed to?  Does it sound like a good idea to anyone else out there?
                    2)  Do the different colored ghosts mean anything?  From what I can tell, they're just colors and have no impact on the enemies you encounter randomly.

---

And finally, one of the things I've been trying to do is figure out the encounter rate for each type of enemy encounter you can get in a given area.  My hope with this is that if we ever decide that a drop from an enemy is necessary, that we can easily figure out the best area to find and battle them in, and which battle we want, specifically.  Or if this is a huge waste of time, please tell me.  As I said earlier, I'm brand new to all of this and don't understand the best practices for speedrunning (yet).  I completed 100 battles in each area and recorded the results, which give a decent approximation to the encounter rate.

Area between Tenel and Madril: (Area 1)
1)  Square Rhino (x1):  Encounter Chance: 18%
2)  Chicken Chicken (x2):  Encounter Chance:  7%
3)  Perky Frog (x1), Airy Bunny (x1):  Encounter Chance:  12%
4)  Chicken Chicken (x1):  Encounter Chance:  6%
5)  Man Eating Onion (x5):  Encounter Chance:  11%
6)  Man Eating Onion (x3):  Encounter Chance:  9%
7)  Airy Bunny (x1):  Encounter Chance:  9%
8)  Wild Cow (x1):  Encounter Chance:  14%
9)  Perky Frog (x2):  Encounter Chance:  11%
10)  Tricky Ghost (x1):  Encounter Chance:  3%

Area between Madril and Rashelo: (Area 2)
1)  Lurking Rat (x6):  Encounter Chance:  14%
2)  Perky Frog (x10):  Encounter Chance:  11%
3)  Crafty Crow (x3):  Encounter Chance:  13%
4)  Crafty Crow (x1), Walken Scarecrow (x1), Fierce Ghost (x1):  Encounter Chance:  13%
5)  Young Trent (x1):  Encounter Chance:  15%
6)  Lurking Rate (x4), Plucky Pachyderm (x2):  Encounter Chance:  12%
7)  Crafty Crow (x4), Walken Scarecrow (x1):  Encounter Chance:  14%
8)  Perky Frog (x3), Young Trent (x1):  Encounter Chance:  8%

That's it for now!  Please let me know if you have any questions/comments/concerns, or even if you have a request for some specific information.  I like sitting down and getting numbers like this.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2014-01-12 11:19:07 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 11:17:39 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 11:09:35 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 10:47:38 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 10:44:56 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 10:31:52 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 10:29:40 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 10:28:29 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 10:27:09 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 10:25:37 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 06:36:06 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:48:25 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:47:44 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:45:57 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:44:57 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:42:49 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:40:53 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:20:03 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:19:14 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:15:36 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 05:08:37 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 04:19:25 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 04:18:16 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 04:14:10 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 04:10:05 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 03:42:31 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 03:41:22 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 03:38:56 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 03:32:32 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 03:09:33 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:56:36 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:53:00 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:33:24 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:31:49 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:26:55 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:26:30 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:25:53 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:25:50 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 02:24:31 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 01:53:10 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 01:40:32 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 01:24:24 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 01:21:22 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 01:20:33 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:58:37 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:58:04 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:56:11 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:53:11 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:51:49 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:48:25 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:46:22 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:42:55 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:42:17 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:41:40 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:40:46 am

Equinox: 2014-01-12 12:39:55 am

2014-01-12 12:37:56 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

First off, hi! Glad to see a fan of the game. I have been working on a run for this off and on for quite a while, carefully playing through the game with many different save files to explore routing. I have been consistently distracted by school for the past 4 months and I recently got back into this after the semester ended. It has been a very slow building process for this run. I plan to start the real run after the end of the game stops trolling me, and at least now I have my party/gear compositions figured out. I have said this quite a bit for a long time but I keep discovering new tricks, usually involving characters, that keep coming up. I have edited this post quite a bit, probably out of boredom or uncertainty. I am what we call an obsessive.

Regarding the beta video: That thing about fight 1 is interesting and has definitely made me think a bit more about the 3 forced encounters. However I really don't think strat 5 is right for me regardless of if its faster or not because of how long that segment is forced to be. That fight is just one of several things you have to push luck on around that part, another being getting only 1 Random Encounter on the way to Madril, which is uncommon. Then there's the pseudo skill part of getting through Ari's house. All this kind of adds up to Strat 1 being a consistent answer for the 3 fights like this(Obviously I used 4 Tongue

in that vid). You could save in Ari's room after getting Stan to make sure you got it, but it wastes ~10 seconds. The only reason to save in a Segmented RPG run is to either push heavy luck manipulation, or to avoid a random encounter and this doesn't jump out as a place where pushing luck makes up for the time lost to saving. I planned to push more luck than I am now in the real run but I gave up early to move on and explore more for the time being. Deciding which enemies to kill first isn't a very common issue. My goal was to get a final time that was within 20 minutes of my preferred time. Hell I am probably going to have to another test run due to all the tricks I discovered halfway through this one. Cry

Quote:

Or if this is a huge waste of time, please tell me. As I said earlier, I'm brand new to all of this and don't understand the best practices for speedrunning (yet)

Not a waste of time. You had some good stuff there with testing of scenarios in battle and what not. I didn't think to look at that at the time. Probably what I had the biggest issue with regarding scenarios was urns. Every dungeon has a different way of dealing with them, and the fact that you are leveling up so much means the methods get altered halfway through a segment which is strange. What you noticed about Overdrive is a recurring theme throughout the game with Ari. Knowing when to use it and when not to saves you turns and ends fights quicker. The urns definitely test this knowledge but bosses are much more straightforward.

Quote:

Are there any known strategies that don't involve healing?

Yes but....they involve a s&%$load of resets. Pair that with the fact that some of the bosses are part of long segments and it can get very frustrating. Most boss fights require at least a little recovery, but the main use of nuts is to keep your party healed when killing urns so you don't deplete your LP or have to constantly be going back to save. Also, leveling up doesn't seem to do much. Most of the time you end up a level below something optimum due to the strange exp system so it rarely feels like you are under leveled.

First off, hi! Glad to see a fan of the game. I have been working on a run for this off and on for quite a while, carefully playing through the game with many different save files to explore routing. I have been consistently distracted by school for the past 4 months and I recently got back into this after the semester ended. It has been a very slow building process for this run. I plan to start the real run after the end of the game stops trolling me, and at least now I have my party/gear compositions figured out. I have said this quite a bit for a long time but I keep discovering new tricks, usually involving characters, that keep coming up. I have edited this post quite a bit, probably out of boredom or uncertainty. I am what we call an obsessive.

Regarding the beta video: That thing about fight 1 is interesting and has definitely made me think a bit more about the 3 forced encounters. However I really don't think strat 5 is right for me regardless of if its faster or not because of how long that segment is forced to be. That fight is just one of several things you have to push luck on around that part, another being getting only 1 Random Encounter on the way to Madril, which is uncommon. Then there's the pseudo skill part of getting through Ari's house. All this kind of adds up to Strat 1 being a consistent answer for the 3 fights like this(Obviously I used 4 :P in that vid). You could save in Ari's room after getting Stan to make sure you got it, but it wastes ~10 seconds. The only reason to save in a Segmented RPG run is to either push [u]heavy[/u] luck manipulation, or to avoid a random encounter and this doesn't jump out as a place where pushing luck makes up for the time lost to saving. I planned to push more luck than I am now in the real run but I gave up early to move on and explore more for the time being. Deciding which enemies to kill first isn't a very common issue. My goal was to get a final time that was within 20 minutes of my preferred time. Hell I am probably going to have to another test run due to all the tricks I discovered halfway through this one. :'(
[quote]Or if this is a huge waste of time, please tell me.  As I said earlier, I'm brand new to all of this and don't understand the best practices for speedrunning (yet)[/quote]Not a waste of time. You had some good stuff there with testing of scenarios in battle and what not. I didn't think to look at that at the time. Probably what I had the biggest issue with regarding scenarios was urns. Every dungeon has a different way of dealing with them, and the fact that you are leveling up so much means the methods get altered halfway through a segment which is strange. What you noticed about Overdrive is a recurring theme throughout the game with Ari. Knowing when to use it and when not to saves you turns and ends fights quicker. The urns definitely test this knowledge but bosses are much more straightforward.
[quote]Are there any known strategies that don't involve healing?[/quote] Yes but....they involve a s&%$load of resets. Pair that with the fact that some of the bosses are part of long segments and it can get very frustrating. Most boss fights require at least a little recovery, but the main use of nuts is to keep your party healed when killing urns so you don't deplete your LP or have to constantly be going back to save. Also, leveling up doesn't seem to do much. Most of the time you end up a level below something optimum due to the strange exp system so it rarely feels like you are under leveled.

Dabbit

2014-01-12 02:20:06 pm

I understand that in a ~5 hour long run, a risky strat that saves 5 seconds or ends a run isn't a good trade off. I'm trying to include as much data for a variety of reasons, most notably being that it may give other runners ideas that I haven't thought of, possibly leading to faster and safer strats down the road.
The other important factor, for me, is that I think it's fun to test and collect data.

So, if you like, feel free to give me a scenario and I'll do my best to figure out what the most efficient path is. As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't have any recording equipment, so I'm delegating myself to more of a practice and support role until then.

I think the next set of numbers I'll be getting is for the urns in the Aquatic Ruins.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2014-01-13 06:24:22 pm

Equinox: 2014-01-13 06:19:50 pm

Equinox: 2014-01-13 06:18:39 pm

2014-01-13 05:56:37 pm

Obsessicus Parrotus

I have no problem running this alongside you. You don't have to share specific boss/fight strats if you don't want to because if you were planning a run, those could be secretive. One thing I have thought we should both be discussing, investigating and sharing with each other though is the game's mechanics. I originally wrote something about mechanics in the last post but started to wonder if it was relevant so I got rid of it(I like short posts). Looking over my notes and having determined the HP of the bosses and their adds has begged me to look at the last minute of those fights a lot more. As far as game mechanics go, this game has a lot of very weird things going for it. It's experience, damage calculation, and speed systems all seem whack to me and any attempts I have made to understand them have at best partially failed.

A couple posts up I talked about speed, which isn't truly something you can change until later. I recorded a lot of different scenarios of the character's time bars filling up, trying to learn if "Speedy" or "Hyperdrive" were worth a turn. My results after checking the footage with all characters without speed bonuses of any kind saw a trend of steady growth based on their raw agility. I found that Rosalyn's 60 agility takes exactly 0:03 to fill, while Big Bull's 42 agility takes 0:05. What baffled me was what raising their speed does because it seems like every character gets different bonuses from the same things. The amount of time bar % reduction showed no clear pattern from Kisling's abilities meaning Speedy and Hyperdrive don't work on %. Raising their raw stats with gear seemed to produce a similar result but I don't know why.

I wanted to ask you, how are you getting times? I know when you started timing but are you using a stop watch? I am getting mine from recording the game through my PS3 and then analyzing the footage that has a built in timer in the program. If you are using a PS2 there are definitely going to be cheaper alternatives than mine. While getting times from fights I typically start timing as soon as the screen starts to transition. It's hard to get consistent without slowing the footage down. Also with practice menuing in general takes very little time and is easy to get consistent within fights so they shouldn't damaging times which I think you mentioned briefly.

I have no problem running this alongside you. You don't have to share specific boss/fight strats if you don't want to because if you were planning a run, those could be secretive. One thing I have thought we should both be discussing, investigating and sharing with each other though is the game's mechanics. I originally wrote something about mechanics in the last post but started to wonder if it was relevant so I got rid of it(I like short posts). Looking over my notes and having determined the HP of the bosses and their adds has begged me to look at the last minute of those fights a lot more. As far as game mechanics go, this game has a lot of very weird things going for it. It's experience, damage calculation, and speed systems all seem whack to me and any attempts I have made to understand them have at best partially failed.

A couple posts up I talked about speed, which isn't truly something you can change until later. I recorded a lot of different scenarios of the character's time bars filling up, trying to learn if "Speedy" or "Hyperdrive" were worth a turn. My results after checking the footage with all characters without speed bonuses of any kind saw a trend of steady growth based on their raw agility. I found that Rosalyn's 60 agility takes exactly 0:03 to fill, while Big Bull's 42 agility takes 0:05. What baffled me was what raising their speed does because it seems like every character gets different bonuses from the same things. The amount of time bar % reduction showed no clear pattern from Kisling's abilities meaning Speedy and Hyperdrive don't work on %. Raising their raw stats with gear seemed to produce a similar result but I don't know why.

I wanted to ask you, how are you getting times? I know when you started timing but are you using a stop watch? I am getting mine from recording the game through my PS3 and then analyzing the footage that has a built in timer in the program. If you are using a PS2 there are definitely going to be cheaper alternatives than mine. While getting times from fights I typically start timing as soon as the screen starts to transition. It's hard to get consistent without slowing the footage down. Also with practice menuing in general takes very little time and is easy to get consistent within fights so they shouldn't damaging times which I think you mentioned briefly.

Dabbit

Edit history:

Dabbit: 2014-01-13 06:40:53 pm

2014-01-13 06:39:38 pm

I plan on sharing every piece of data I come up with. When I hold the WR for this game, it's going to be because I'm a better gamer than you, not because I'm hiding stuff Wink

(j/k)

I absolutely agree that the system mechanics need to be studied more. I did spend a little bit of time investigating the combo system, and ended up just being confused as all hell. (I don't have my notes with me right now, so these numbers will be a little off) I averaged a number of Ari's attacks against a Chill Urn and got about 43.9 (at level 10 or something). The same test with Kisling resulted in an average of 38.9. When I averaged them doing a combine attack, just the two of them, Ari got about a 4% attack bonus, while Kisling got a 70% bonus. I either seriously messed up the numbers, or because K is yellow and does bonus damage to blue, his bonus just skyrocketed. When Ari did combine attacks with Rosalyn, he got closer to a 16% bonus. Very strange. More testing will be done.

I'm getting my times in a very informal manner, using an online stopwatch program to get a real time reading. I'll typically do my tests in sets of 10 and then average the times. The reason I was timing the 1st fight from the door to enemy disappears is because 1) I had to press the "Start Timer" button with one hand, 2) it's the most consistent starting point I could come up with, to eliminate as much human error as possible.

I plan on sharing every piece of data I come up with.  When I hold the WR for this game, it's going to be because I'm a better gamer than you, not because I'm hiding stuff ;) (j/k)

I absolutely agree that the system mechanics need to be studied more. I did spend a little bit of time investigating the combo system, and ended up just being confused as all hell.  (I don't have my notes with me right now, so these numbers will be a little off)  I averaged a number of Ari's attacks against a Chill Urn and got about 43.9 (at level 10 or something).  The same test with Kisling resulted in an average of 38.9.  When I averaged them doing a combine attack, just the two of them, Ari got about a 4% attack bonus, while Kisling got a 70% bonus.  I either seriously messed up the numbers, or because K is yellow and does bonus damage to blue, his bonus just skyrocketed.  When Ari did combine attacks with Rosalyn, he got closer to a 16% bonus.  Very strange.  More testing will be done.

I'm getting my times in a very informal manner, using an online stopwatch program to get a real time reading.  I'll typically do my tests in sets of 10 and then average the times.  The reason I was timing the 1st fight from the door to enemy disappears is because 1) I had to press the "Start Timer" button with one hand, 2) it's the most consistent starting point I could come up with, to eliminate as much human error as possible.