Odin Sphere Leifthrasir

2016-05-29 09:58:12 am

You can never have too much zips

The north american release is on it's way! I have played the original game for the first time less than a year ago and it was an awesome experience. The game had a cool alchemy system, some stages and bosses were really hard espically if you are playing the game for the first time. The difficulty seems really unfair to me at first, but I came to love it!

Then, I played the japanese release of odin sphere leifthrasir on the psvita. This remake is SOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOD! They did so many things right with this.

- A bunch of new normal attacks
- POW is for special moves only (Normal attacks are now unlimited!)
- A lot of unique Physer skills and ability for each character.
- You stuntlock most ennemies and bosses to death
- Alchemy's mechnics have been changed a little bit, I like it

So I have decided to make a post here before the game's release to see if there were anybody else interested to work on it. I was also thinking there could be a Any% and Any%NG+ for every book since the game support new game+ really well, and also a Any% and Any%NG+ True Ending which would beat all the books and get the true ending.

I am pretty excited to play the game again because there is a lot skills that I was not sure what they were exactly doing (because japanese) and there was also a few skills that I was unable to find.

If you have any ideas for a speed run of this game, let me know. Smiley

Thread title:

The north american release is on it's way! I have played the original game for the first time less than a year ago and it was an awesome experience. The game had a cool alchemy system, some stages and bosses were really hard espically if you are playing the game for the first time. The difficulty seems really unfair to me at first, but I came to love it!

Then, I played the japanese release of odin sphere leifthrasir on the psvita. This remake is SOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOD! They did so many things right with this.

- A bunch of new normal attacks
- POW is for special moves only (Normal attacks are now unlimited!)
- A lot of unique Physer skills and ability for each character.
- You stuntlock most ennemies and bosses to death
- Alchemy's mechnics have been changed a little bit, I like it

So I have decided to make a post here before the game's release to see if there were anybody else interested to work on it. I was also thinking there could be a Any% and Any%NG+ for every book since the game support new game+ really well, and also a Any% and Any%NG+ True Ending which would beat all the books and get the true ending.

I am pretty excited to play the game again because there is a lot skills that I was not sure what they were exactly doing (because japanese) and there was also a few skills that I was unable to find.

If you have any ideas for a speed run of this game, let me know. :)

SleepySheep

2016-06-15 09:02:48 am

Played through this casually a few times, I do think it would end up being a great speed game. Was the original run at all? If so, we could probably route using a similar route as a starting point.

As for categories, Any% and Any%NG+ sound reasonable. Just curious, what difficulty would we use for each category (easy/medium/hard). Let me know if you're still interested in working on this game. thumbsup

ymh

2016-06-15 09:27:33 am

Here is a speedrun of the original game:

SleepySheep

2016-06-15 09:36:14 am

Thanks ymh! So it looks like the game was run on normal. Also it looks like running the whole game (all chapters) would take over 10 hours... which means that each individual chapter would be its own category. That run didn't seem too optimized, plus I think Leifthrasir is faster, which gives me hope that at one point a full game run would be feasible.

Anyways, I'm going to mess around and try to find a basic route for each chapter. If anyone has any ideas to help out with strategy, they'd be very appreciated <3

DarkLightBoco

2016-06-15 09:55:37 pm

You can never have too much zips

Yes SleepySheep! I am still interested in working on it. Im currently playing through on the "Hard" difficulty to get myself more familiar with the game and get some ideas going. After that, I will most likely that working on NG+ individual character runs to learn the map layout of every stage.

When it comes to difficulty, I am not quite sure how the difficulty affects the gameplay (ennemies hp, ennemies damage, exp, drop rate, boss patterns, etc...). I have heard that the original game had a thing where the highest difficulty would actually give more exp and pshyser points usage. It probably does not applies for the new game, but I have no proof of that at the moment. A full run would be so long that we should probably start with the easy difficulty for now to help us get through the game faster.

Regular any% starting to finish will be especially difficult route, we will have to think about which skills/abilities we want to get, which recipies we want to use and get, which potion we want to make and use on which boss etc. There is a lot of possibilities here.

I am thinking of uploading a few videos in the near future on how to "juggle" them and get a big combo starting.

Yes SleepySheep! I am still interested in working on it. Im currently playing through on the "Hard" difficulty to get myself more familiar with the game and get some ideas going. After that, I will most likely that working on NG+ individual character runs to learn the map layout of every stage.

When it comes to difficulty, I am not quite sure how the difficulty affects the gameplay (ennemies hp, ennemies damage, exp, drop rate, boss patterns, etc...). I have heard that the original game had a thing where the highest difficulty would actually give more exp and pshyser points usage. It probably does not applies for the new game, but I have no proof of that at the moment. A full run would be so long that we should probably start with the easy difficulty for now to help us get through the game faster.

Regular any% starting to finish will be especially difficult route, we will have to think about which skills/abilities we want to get, which recipies we want to use and get, which potion we want to make and use on which boss etc. There is a lot of possibilities here.

I am thinking of uploading a few videos in the near future on how to "juggle" them and get a big combo starting.

SleepySheep

2016-06-16 12:55:30 am

That would be great. I think maybe the easiest way to start is by coming up with boss strats? Since we need to figure out equipment, skill builds, and items based on how we kill bosses, it might be for the best!

SleepySheep

Edit history:

SleepySheep: 2016-06-16 02:03:09 am

SleepySheep: 2016-06-16 02:00:09 am

2016-06-16 01:17:19 am

Oh! Also, I figure we should start making note of exactly what each item does and maybe a complete map of where everything is found? It might not be super useful with Any%, but as we expand into new categories and figure out new routes, it would be helpful.

Lastly, Individual Books would need to be run on new game plus right? Or could we take a finished save file and start a chapter fresh? For example, having a completed save file, but playing Cornelius' book as if it was a new file. I haven't experimented with new game plus yet.

Edit: Yes, all individual books will need to be done in new game plus. That way we can standardize the recipes each character starts with. If the recipes did not carry over, we'd be able to simply load from a save right before starting the book in a new game Sad

Maybe we should clarify that a New Game individual book run is allowed to start with all recipes that are available before the book? I like that best, and it probably won't make a difference route wise since cooking seems inefficient.

Oh! Also, I figure we should start making note of exactly what each item does and maybe a complete map of where everything is found? It might not be super useful with Any%, but as we expand into new categories and figure out new routes, it would be helpful.

Lastly, Individual Books would need to be run on new game plus right? Or could we take a finished save file and start a chapter fresh? For example, having a completed save file, but playing Cornelius' book as if it was a new file. I haven't experimented with new game plus yet.

Edit: Yes, all individual books will need to be done in new game plus. That way we can standardize the recipes each character starts with. If the recipes did not carry over, we'd be able to simply load from a save right before starting the book in a new game :( Maybe we should clarify that a New Game individual book run is allowed to start with all recipes that are available before the book? I like that best, and it probably won't make a difference route wise since cooking seems inefficient.

DarkLightBoco

Edit history:

DarkLightBoco: 2016-06-16 02:40:48 am

2016-06-16 02:37:07 am

You can never have too much zips

Working on bosses strats first sound like good idea indeed. I think the generally strategy will be juggle and stunt bosses as much as you can and keep the potions for bosses that cannot be juggled, like using Killer Cloud and Whirlwind and try to keep them in that area. I also want to point out that Ice Spirit is probably the best potion in the entire game. Even lvl1 is super useful because it blocks any attacks (no matter how strong it is) and you gain a few seconds of invincibility between every hit.

New game + from what I remember allows you to start a new game with a selected save file that you already have. You unlock that feature once you have beaten the game for the first time. With the NG+ mode, you keep everything, level, stats, skills, potions and even stuff you have in your itembox I belive. You could also do individual character runs from lvl1 by having a save file before starting it, but I am not sure it would be as interesting.

Maps would be really useful for routing. It would be cool to have every psypher skills displayed on them too, maybe even other useful informations on it.

Edit:Yeah I forgot about the recipes, that would make individual books runs without NG+ weird to standardize rules for it.

Working on bosses strats first sound like good idea indeed. I think the generally strategy will be juggle and stunt bosses as much as you can and keep the potions for bosses that cannot be juggled, like using Killer Cloud and Whirlwind and try to keep them in that area. I also want to point out that Ice Spirit is probably the best potion in the entire game. Even lvl1 is super useful because it blocks any attacks (no matter how strong it is) and you gain a few seconds of invincibility between every hit.

New game + from what I remember allows you to start a new game with a selected save file that you already have. You unlock that feature once you have beaten the game for the first time. With the NG+ mode, you keep everything, level, stats, skills, potions and even stuff you have in your itembox I belive. You could also do individual character runs from lvl1 by having a save file before starting it, but I am not sure it would be as interesting.

Maps would be really useful for routing. It would be cool to have every psypher skills displayed on them too, maybe even other useful informations on it.

Edit:Yeah I forgot about the recipes, that would make individual books runs without NG+ weird to standardize rules for it.

SleepySheep

2016-06-16 01:03:48 pm

Yup, boss strats would be great first. In the case of new game +, I guess the prep that would need to be done is all characters to max level with all skills, all recipes, a stockpile of items, etc. correct? Also, in NG+, do you get access to all 5 character books at the beginning?

I can start working on maps in the near future, when work stops being so overbearing :<

DarkLightBoco

2016-06-16 04:26:18 pm

You can never have too much zips

An example on how to juggle/stunt lock bosses in the air with Gwendolyn from the footage I got during my playthrough of the game on Hard difficulty.

Interesting to note that once part of his HP bar got down, I was not able to keep the combo going with my "Up Air" attack. Maybe other skills can allow you to negate that. Otherwise we would simply let the boss fall before dropping his HP bar to the next level. Once on the ground, the next attack that will empty that bar would launch her in the air and we could start the combo again.

The NG+ mode is called "Xtra New Game". You start only with Gwendolyn's book, you keep everything, even money and recipes. Playtime is displayed as 000:00. It is really like a fresh file except you start with your level and all the stuff you had.

Pretty busy with work this week me too haha. I only got Velvet to finish on my Hard difficulty playthrough, then I will move on with the NG+ grinding and routing.

If you can do maps that would be cool, I am not particularly good at it, so if it something you think you can do go right ahead thumbsup

An example on how to juggle/stunt lock bosses in the air with Gwendolyn from the footage I got during my playthrough of the game on Hard difficulty.

[hidden]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ9IITsdDsk[/hidden]

Interesting to note that once part of his HP bar got down, I was not able to keep the combo going with my "Up Air" attack. Maybe other skills can allow you to negate that. Otherwise we would simply let the boss fall before dropping his HP bar to the next level. Once on the ground, the next attack that will  empty that bar would launch her in the air and we could start the combo again.

The NG+ mode is called "Xtra New Game".  You start only with Gwendolyn's book, you keep everything, even money and recipes. Playtime is displayed as 000:00. It is really like a fresh file except you start with your level and all the stuff you had.

Pretty busy with work this week me too haha. I only got Velvet to finish on my Hard difficulty playthrough, then I will move on with the NG+ grinding and routing.

If you can do maps that would be cool, I am not particularly good at it, so if it something you think you can do go right ahead :thumbsup:

SleepySheep

Edit history:

SleepySheep: 2016-06-16 05:37:16 pm

2016-06-16 05:35:42 pm

So... the issue with NG+ is hypothetically, you would have to grind out enough level 9 attack potions to quick kill each boss. I could see the prep taking a very very very long time. I think maybe NG might be better.

Hypothetical rules for NG individual book categories:

1. Time starts after pressing yes when selecting the book.
2. All recipes from previous books are allowed.

If we did want to do NG+, maybe it would be best to limit attack potions in some way? What are your thoughts on this?

Edit: Also, NG might be better simply because the route could be more interesting, since you would need to make detours to pick up certain items to make the route faster. In NG+, it'd simply be a mad rush to the boss. I do think both categories would be viable though.

DarkLightBoco

2016-06-16 06:13:13 pm

You can never have too much zips

Regular any% from new game to finish is definitely way more interesting when it comes to the route compared to NG+. NG+ individual character runs would fun to do if you want to do a run that takes a short amount of time. Grinding does takes a really huge amount of time, but it might be a more interesting alternative for people who wants to run the game but does not want to sit through such a long (with no downtime) plus all the route learning and practice needed.

When it comes to potions, I don't think you will need too many potions for NG+. I mean everything will die so quick in the first few chapters because of your high level that potions will only be useful for the 2 chapters. I don't know what is total time duration for LVL9 O(Overload?) potions but it might be enough to get through 2 bosses.

SleepySheep

2016-06-16 06:33:53 pm

I'm thinking of running regular NG individual characters, because a full any% NG run is predicted atm to be a very very very long run. It wouldn't be too difficult to gather whatever recipes are necessary and saving before each character story to have good loads to use. What are your thoughts on NG individual characters?

Also, I have a feeling that the NG any% full run would need to be segmented. Thoughts on that?

DarkLightBoco

2016-06-16 08:51:43 pm

You can never have too much zips

A multi-segmented run could work very well if you want to do it. The best way to do it would probably be a segment for every chapters since the game asks if you want to save your game after every acts. It also keeps the segments short so you can give it a lot of tries untill you are satisfied with it. Then armageddon would be it own segment which would make a total of 36 segments.

Individual characters NG runs would be fine as long as that character's book has never been done before. Characters are not allowed to trade items untill the game has been beated (or once you unlock armageddon?). So there isn't any ways that someone could have an unfair advantage.

We should also take notes of places where mandragoras always appears. The chests that gives an alchemy scroll usually gives mandragoras needed for that scroll, a good way to get a few mandragoras for free. So if you notice any of them during your testing, make sure to take notes of them Smiley

SleepySheep

Edit history:

SleepySheep: 2016-06-16 09:20:26 pm

2016-06-16 09:20:01 pm

Yep that's perfect! A few things to do first would probably be make a map (using ps4 share function to transfer screenshots of the area map), keep track of items, their locations, and their effects (maybe in a google doc), and try to write down some the best combos to use to stunlock enemies and bosses with each character. Eventually, we'll come up with a specific series of actions to quickly kill bosses, but starting with a few efficient chains would probably be great!

I'll finish up my current playthrough and start working on the map soon. If we keep good records of our route, item locations, strategy, etc., we can easily help others learn the run, which would be a great side benefit! Look forward to note taking! thumbsup

DarkLightBoco

2016-06-17 08:05:18 am

You can never have too much zips

Here's another short example of what you can do with Cornelius:

I also found this video that demonstrate an infinite combo with Velvet. Very cool.

SleepySheep

2016-06-17 01:19:45 pm

Something interesting to note: Mercedes unfortunately doesn't have an infinite combo due to her ammo mechanic, but a lot of her optimization will come from movement. Her POW only recharges in two ways:

1. By being on the ground, which charges the meter slowly
2. By standing still on the ground, which instantly refills it (reload)

The fastest way to move on the ground is dodging, so when you need the POW refilled and aren't fighting anything, you should dodge until it's full.

The fastest way to move in general is by fast flying. However, there is a slight time after you jump before you can start flying. In order to make the most of this time before flight, you can actually dodge once in the direction you're going, jump, and start flying with the dodge momentum. If you are flying upwards, flying into a ledge from below will slightly boost you higher, which is great because upwards flight is pretty slow by itself.

Lastly, there is one skill which allows you to fire with a reduction to POW usage. The NG+ route should use most of it's special gauge to use this ability, and the NG route would probably need to detour to pick this skill up.

Something interesting to note: Mercedes unfortunately doesn't have an infinite combo due to her ammo mechanic, but a lot of her optimization will come from movement. Her POW only recharges in two ways:

1. By being on the ground, which charges the meter slowly
2. By standing still on the ground, which instantly refills it (reload)

The fastest way to move on the ground is dodging, so when you need the POW refilled and aren't fighting anything, you should dodge until it's full.

The fastest way to move in general is by fast flying. However, there is a slight time after you jump before you can start flying. In order to make the most of this time before flight, you can actually dodge once in the direction you're going, jump, and start flying with the dodge momentum. If you are flying upwards, flying into a ledge from below will slightly boost you higher, which is great because upwards flight is pretty slow by itself.

Lastly, there is one skill which allows you to fire with a reduction to POW usage. The NG+ route should use most of it's special gauge to use this ability, and the NG route would probably need to detour to pick this skill up.

DarkLightBoco

2016-06-17 05:46:36 pm

You can never have too much zips

She still can juggle ennemies, however an "infinite" combo does not seem possible because the game like to make bosses fall down after a while no matter what you do.

DarkLightBoco

2016-06-17 11:17:07 pm

You can never have too much zips

Does the roll/dodge then jumping (I like to call it "Roll Jumping" personally) actually carries on and increase the fast flying speed SleepySheep? I have not tried it yet.
In any case, "Roll Jumping" is definitely a great traveling tool for the other characters.

SleepySheep

Edit history:

SleepySheep: 2016-06-18 12:18:20 am

2016-06-18 12:16:17 am

It doesn't increase the speed of flight, BUT it does make you move faster during the original jump and flight startup. Nothing major but it helps save a few frames each room.

Edit: Unlimited Ammo is so key that I think it will be a necessary detour for the New Game run. Very important for juggles and just general damage output.

DarkLightBoco

2016-06-18 07:33:53 am

You can never have too much zips

Actually I just found out that you can Hold foward--> Press and hold Roll --> Press Jump on the next frame while still holding a foward and roll and you will actually start fast flying imidiately. Maybe that is what you were trying to tell me, I just did not understood it.

DarkLightBoco

Edit history:

DarkLightBoco: 2016-06-19 06:06:17 am

2016-06-19 06:05:48 am

You can never have too much zips

Ok I have a few interesting things to show off with Velvet

Keep in mind that everything you see here is on the hard difficulty.

At the begining of the video, just notice how I am able to block a few of these attacks while being in mid combo. I will this refer as "Mid Attack Blocking". I don't know exactly how it works yet, but you can actually block attacks while you are performing your owns attacks. I usally try to mash the attack button when I know the strike is coming or try to repress the button and holding it a bit with the right timing. It also works in the air.

Something to note about that boss, when he rises his head upward and screams, the next hit will launch him upward and you will be able to start your juggling.

Lastly, you can see that I am still able to do that "Infinite combo" even though there is a lot of ennemies around. Ennemies makes it hard because they often mess up your momentum while following the boss. Thankfully, there seems to be a lot leeway to be able to catch him again with the Sling Whip if something goes wrong. It is important to notice that it is not gurantee. If you watch the end of that clip, the boss did not bounced up again. I think it is because I juggled him too much before doing a Sling Whip.

Second clip took me by suprise. A quick kill on the big slime boss that completely skips the final phase. Not sure of the exact reason it happened, but it probably has to do with them spawning in the Killer Cloud, killing them instantly. They also died nearly at the same time and I finish them off with a critical. It might have something to do with that too.

Third showcase how you can juggle Beldor, my thrid Flare Shot missed him because of the potion. -_- Still needs more investigation in the future.

The last part shows a combination of the level 9 Whirlwind potion and Flare Shot. This is a trial stage in the last chapter of Velvet. We won't have to do this stage in the speed run I am sure, but this is just an example.

I still have a few more things to do to 100% the game, then I'll move on to actually boss investigation.

Ok I have a few interesting things to show off with Velvet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFozEico8VM

Keep in mind that everything you see here is on the hard difficulty.

At the begining of the video, just notice how I am able to block a few of these attacks while being in mid combo. I will this refer as "Mid Attack Blocking". I don't know exactly how it works yet, but you can actually block attacks while you are performing your owns attacks.  I usally try to mash the attack button when I know the strike is coming or try to repress the button and holding it a bit with the right timing. It also works in the air.

Something to note about that boss, when he rises his head upward and screams, the next hit will launch him upward and you will be able to start your juggling.

Lastly, you can see that I am still able to do that "Infinite combo" even though there is a lot of ennemies around. Ennemies makes it hard because they often mess up your momentum while following the boss. Thankfully, there seems to be a lot leeway to be able to catch him again with the Sling Whip if something goes wrong. It is important to notice that it is not gurantee. If you watch the end of that clip, the boss did not bounced up again. I think it is because I juggled him too much before doing a Sling Whip.

Second clip took me by suprise. A quick kill on the big slime boss that completely skips the final phase. Not sure of the exact reason it happened, but it probably has to do with them spawning in the Killer Cloud, killing them instantly. They also died nearly at the same time and I finish them off with a critical. It might have something to do with that too.

Third showcase how you can juggle Beldor, my thrid Flare Shot missed him because of the potion. -_- Still needs more investigation in the future.

The last part shows a combination of the level 9 Whirlwind potion and Flare Shot. This is a trial stage in the last chapter of Velvet. We won't have to do this stage in the speed run I am sure, but this is just an example.

I still have a few more things to do to 100% the game, then I'll move on to actually boss investigation.

SleepySheep

2016-06-19 01:30:10 pm

Good info to have! I have started making the maps, it'll take a while though. I have to take 2/3/4 screenshots per chapter and send them to another psn account, and then have to put them together on my computer. I'll post them when I have all of them done, and then we can start filling them out.

Rosael

2016-06-19 07:44:20 pm

Menu Faster!

I can understand wanting to infinite juggle bosses like the wise men since they teleport so much, but is it an actual DPS increase in other situations where you can just maximize damage output by dodging a mechanic that might take a second.
Bosses that spawn adds can grant a lot of phozon, which you can get for free if you just cleave with all your attacks, which can also be used as fuel for using more skills that use PP. From an aspect of someone who wants to just maximize damage being in critical hp with relics would also further speed up fights.

Is there any reason to ban IGT as a viable form of timing, (assuming its not segmented) for New Game at least. Should the full Any% be the true ending and not the bad one?

Also if people are gonna run NG+ there is no reason to limit them since the run is already going to be mostly focused on movement and bosses will just die in 3 seconds.

SleepySheep

Edit history:

SleepySheep: 2016-06-19 08:32:19 pm

SleepySheep: 2016-06-19 08:31:51 pm

2016-06-19 08:31:36 pm

BTW, I can't tell if it actually speeds you up, but if you are fast flying with R1, tapping Square seems to make you fly even faster.