Updated - Ocarina of Time - Sub 4 (It may happen)

Cygnus

2005-07-13 03:19:21 am

Ben Goldberg

Ok, pretty fast then.

SamSim

2005-07-13 01:44:27 pm

Hang on. That Jabu-Jabu bug. Why is it useless? Couldn't you throw Ruto down the gap too?

You'd still have to get the Boomerang, but even so it'd save a little time. Still dangerous though, I'd wager.

TSA

2005-07-13 02:56:00 pm

Retired

If you drop Ruto down a hole - as soon as you go down, she is back up top. If you try to fall down with her, toss, and jump attack, it doesn't work. You can't make it to the top with her just jumping down as well. I tried bomb damage boosts to get up the side of the ledge down there, or to get up to the stone, but it didn't work.

SamSim

2005-07-13 10:54:36 pm

Just as long as we've tried all the possibilities. Smiley

rokozor

2005-07-14 04:31:31 am

This strategy includes collecting blue rupees only. I use pictures to explain:

The first blue rupee is hidden in the air, and you get it by backflipping.

2 blue rupees in Mido's house.

Mostly, I think that this run is about strategy and memorizing. In the bosses, it's about "skill".

BTW, I've never heard of another 5 hour single segment run before, wouldn't it be good to do this in segments? I can imagine it being annoying if you fail (die, lose too much time) after playing for 4 hours or so.

Cygnus

2005-07-14 04:42:13 am

Ben Goldberg

You havn't ever seen a 5 hour SS run before?

http://speeddemosarchive.com/OcarinaOfTime.html

FIERCELINKMASTER

2005-07-14 05:28:10 am

No the Quail is not riding the Q

My route can't be improved nothing is out of the way. Trust me I've tried it all.

whacko_jacko

2005-07-14 05:42:50 am

Quote:

My route can't be improved nothing is out of the way. Trust me I've tried it all.

Just wait til the good people over at Bisqwits get ahold of this game...

Cygnus

2005-07-14 05:45:12 am

Ben Goldberg

That's if someone makes a good N64 emulator.

whacko_jacko

Edit history:

whacko_jacko: 2005-07-14 05:51:16 am

2005-07-14 05:50:48 am

if its possible on PS1, its possible on 64, and its possible on PS1, so its only a matter of somebody having the time/abilities to make it.

TSA

2005-07-14 06:37:02 am

Retired

Yeah, Fierce's rupee route is faster than that. You're using the route I sort of used to use.

whacko_jacko

2005-07-14 06:56:44 am

sorry, to go off topic, but i just had a random thought...that is, wouldnt it be fairly easy to make a 64 re-recording emulator that doesnt accept analog data? IE you would be using the keyboard/d-pad and so therefore it would be very difficult to move accurately, but it would be a start wouldnt it? I would think the key recording aspect of it would be the same as any other emulator, however the playback might have issues such as desyncs due to more complicated issues, who knows.
From there, couldnt analog data be recorded as coordinates of rotation from the starting position (0,0), the first number being degress of rotation out and the second being degrees of rotation from straight to the right (a bit like polar geometry), and then had that data fed back on each frame?

Ok once again, very sorry about going off topic...back to OoT now!

Tub

Edit history:

Tub: 2005-07-14 10:49:31 am

2005-07-14 10:49:09 am

m00

analog input is not an issue. The problem with those emulators is that they do not emulate the hardware with accurate timing. If you run Mario64 on a crappy computer, you'll see 10 fps, while a good machine might produce 60 (or more?). As a result, the emulators are not completely deterministic (based on player input), and there's no way to verify the validity of a video.

But that should be discussed somewhere else Wink

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2005-07-14 06:25:58 pm

2005-07-14 06:20:04 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

Just wait til the good people over at Bisqwits get ahold of this game...

Are you just joking or annoying me? cuz That was a garbage remark. Tell me that when you know what your talking about. Don't make me say more to you because your being stupid.

gfhghh

2005-07-14 06:31:19 pm

Quote:

My route can't be improved nothing is out of the way. Trust me I've tried it all.

Ok, but can't you show a video or something, I didn't quite understand it..

TSA

2005-07-14 06:48:06 pm

Retired

Fierce - you took his comment the wrong way. The context he was using the word good is like in this sentence"

All ye good faithful servants of the king, stand now and fight!

Good does not refer to skill level in this context he used.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2005-07-14 07:02:15 pm

2005-07-14 06:50:36 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

ok ok. To the guy before you I wrote it down on pg7. Soon enough I'm going to make a thread with video footage from multiple games I'm running. Now that I got space Smiley

Oh, by that I mean the rupee route strategy I do remember precise movememts but it is real hard to do it all as your going along. Not to mention the random or risk factor in some.

Angry Psychlops

2005-07-14 06:55:00 pm

Quote:

Are you just joking or annoying me? cuz That was a garbage remark. Tell me that when you know what your talking about. Don't make me say more to you because your being stupid.

I totally think he was being sarcastic.

By the way, even if re-recorded time attacks were possible to make on a hypothetically perfect N64 emulator, it would still be nigh impossible to make one. One not only has to calculate precise angles of movement in three dimensions to account for every action (i.e. basic movement, strafing, fire control, etc...), but for all other moving entities as well. For instance, how would one be able to calculate the precise angle link has to be at to get from the entrance to the kokiri village to the rightmost edge of the hyrule castle? What about backflipping or side hopping? What about boss battles? No, my friends, It would be mathematically staggering to record even 5 seconds of such "perfection," let alone 4 - 5 hours. Well, this at any rate (unless supercomputers could magically number-crunch the right route and correct key presses), is one type of run the time-attackers can't begin to touch. Viva la speed runs!

p(

[quote]
Are you just joking or annoying me? cuz That was a garbage remark. Tell me that when you know what your talking about. Don't make me say more to you because your being stupid.[/quote]

I totally think he was being sarcastic.

By the way, even if re-recorded time attacks were possible to make on a hypothetically perfect N64 emulator, it would still be nigh impossible to make one.  One not only has to calculate precise angles of movement in three dimensions to account for every action (i.e. basic movement, strafing, fire control, etc...), but for all other moving entities as well.  For instance, how would one be able to calculate the precise angle link has to be at to get from the entrance to the kokiri village to the rightmost edge of the hyrule castle?  What about backflipping or side hopping?  What about boss battles?  No, my friends, It would be mathematically staggering to record even 5 seconds of such "perfection," let alone 4 - 5 hours.  Well, this at any rate (unless supercomputers could magically number-crunch the right route and correct key presses), is one type of run the time-attackers can't begin to touch.  Viva la speed runs!

p(

GWing_02

2005-07-14 07:02:42 pm

something or another

Well at the very least we'd be able to eliminate a large majority of the errors and perfect battles, then we can see about the angles. And we'd also be able to locate glitches with 100% accuracy.

whacko_jacko

2005-07-14 07:23:27 pm

yeah, its just a matter of retrying each movement over and over and over and over..............and over (.....'s represent a lot more "and over"s).

Personally i think 64 TAS's would be very good for the speedrunning community, that is assuming nobody would be *smart* enough to try and pass one off as a speedrun... but that wouldnt be hard to catch, hopefully.

And to FierceLinkMaster, yeah, those comments were meant lightheartedly...not trying to be offensive here, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2005-07-14 07:36:23 pm

2005-07-14 07:33:42 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

yeah, its just a matter of retrying each movement over and over and over and over..............and over (.....'s represent a lot more "and over"s).

Personally i think 64 TAS's would be very good for the speedrunning community, that is assuming nobody would be *smart* enough to try and pass one off as a speedrun... but that wouldnt be hard to catch, hopefully.

And to FierceLinkMaster, yeah, those comments were meant lightheartedly...not trying to be offensive here, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

use Mr.

or whatever applys. Tongue

That lets me know for sure. If I remember correctly you where active in remarks like that. But the rule applys for my words too. If whatever I say is not true, just don't take it personal. The reason I feel so strong about these things is because I work very hard to learn them. (to the point where the game is not fun)

whacko_jacko

2005-07-14 07:37:22 pm

Yup, and on that note, what do you say we end all this off-topicness and get back to the game at hand, eh?

I have nothing to add perse, except words of encouragement, so here goes: "wooh, yeah TSA you can do it man!"

r0k0z0r

2005-07-15 02:31:12 am

Using a broken Deku Stick, you can beat the Iron knuckle in about 15 seconds (consistently) at the end of spirit temple. Just go around him, he follows, you jump attack. When his armor breaks, avoid his attack by striking him with a normal attack or get close enough and crouch by pressing R while NOT Z-targeting.

The broken Deku Stick is pretty easy to get here, just aim at the right side of the pillars.

TSA

2005-07-15 04:54:30 am

Retired

You don't need it...cuz anytime I use Deku Sticks, I follow up with the Power Crouch Stab...which is faster than waitin to do another jump attack with Deku Stick.

Man, this sucks. I am doing so much better in terms of smoothness and better movements and fighting...and I'm only picking up not even 30 seconds on some temples in Adult Link (Fire/Forest). But I pick up time on Water, Spirit and Shadow...pretty good time. I was just noticing where I pick up the most time...and it's like blah...my 5:04 run couldn't have been that good...

Cygnus

2005-07-15 05:07:31 am

Ben Goldberg

What about that trick in the Forest Temple where you knock the poes in the corner with your shield? That doesn't save much time?