Updated - Ocarina of Time - Sub 4 (It may happen)

TSA

2005-06-27 10:52:05 pm

Retired

Deku Nut
Jump Attack
Crouch Stab

Deku Nut
Jump Attack
Crouch Stab

That should be a good strategy.

SamSim

2005-06-28 01:00:52 am

Quote:

At 17:04 part 4 in your run etc. etc.

It would be really nice if you told us where he actually did these things so we can know what you're talking about instead of having to dig out the actual run and watch it to find out. Name the temple and describe the room at least.

AngerFist

2005-06-28 01:36:10 am

Angered Me, You have!

Sure thing Sam. At 17:04 part 4 = After TSA has defeated Jabu-Jabu, he is heading towards Hyrule field. During this, I strongly feel that he could've swim the way to Hyrule field instead of rolling. It should definitely be faster and efficient, and you shouldn't be affraid getting hit by those creatures in the water because as you all know, they disappear if you get close to them so if TSA would have swim there at good speed they would not make it to deliver a shot or even if you would get hit by them, I certainly think that you would still have a greater advantage to continue swimming instead of rolling.

Cygnus

2005-06-28 02:45:52 am

Ben Goldberg

I tested that out a few months ago, and TSA's method of swimming/rolling was much faster than just swimming.

AngerFist

2005-06-28 10:05:01 am

Angered Me, You have!

Quote:

I tested that out a few months ago, and TSA's method of swimming/rolling was much faster than just swimming.

You mean TSA:s method of rolling not swimming, cause he did not swim and I must say that I find that hard to believe that svimming is slower than rolling in that particular part.

TSA

2005-06-28 02:33:36 pm

Retired

I think you two are miscommunicating, so let a Zelda expert clarify what you two are saying:

AngerFist is talking about: Hyrule Field, nagivating the river from Zora's River entrance to the Castle entrance, since it triggers a cut scene anyway so you don't have to worry about getting out cuz the cutscene warps you out.

Cygnus is talking about: Zora's River, me using a combination of rolls and the fast current to make it to the end.

TSA says: Walking backwards in Hyrule field is faster than rolling or swimming. End of debate.

Spazmo

2005-06-28 02:53:39 pm

TSA is the master. period.

TSA

2005-06-30 04:10:31 pm

Retired

Okay, so - I will break my practicing down by area.

So, first area - getting to Deku Tree I have no problems. Now - there is a debate about the Slingshot room. Arguement is over the two stategies:

My strategy: You've seen it, it's in all my runs. Jump down, roll to vines, climb, get Sling Shot, jump to platform and jump to door.

Alternate strategy: Jump to platform, jump to chest. Turn and fire Sling Shot at Ladder and jump off and roll to base of ladder. Climb ladder and go to door.

My argument is it is still the same thing, in reverse. Except, the alternate route has something extra - firing the slingshot. The counter I thought is maybe scaling the vines takes longer than scaling the ladder.

Solution: I need to use vDub to do a frame count...which I'll do tonight.

TSA

2005-07-06 03:55:43 pm

Retired

Also...I was playing the end, and I think the fastest strategy for Ganondor is:

Jump to middle and hold side, climb up after a moment.
Quick spin his energy ball.
Jump attack, 3x crouch stab, quick spins.

It was much faster than my 5:04 video.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2005-07-06 06:01:03 pm

2005-07-06 06:00:41 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

Also...I was playing the end, and I think the fastest strategy for Ganondor is:

Jump to middle and hold side, climb up after a moment.
Quick spin his energy ball.
Jump attack, 3x crouch stab, quick spins.

It was much faster than my 5:04 video.

Correct, it can't be done faster. Best if you hookshot to the ledge since that item should already be out.

TSA

2005-07-07 03:50:37 pm

Retired

This is my route so far:

Wake Up, Backflip out and walk backwards, side hop to get 2 rupees. Then scale hill side hopping, roll off last fence to get 6 rupees. Enter maze, get 2 rupees in grass en route to sword. Go to two blue rupee spots and cut bush's to get rupees, total of 12. Go outside, backflip at hole to get 1 rupee. Go to sign, cut it, get 5. Go to grass by water, get 2 rupees. Hop platforms in water, get 5. Get 5 from behind counter in shop. Buy Deku Shield. Lunge attack to small platform in water, hop to Mido.

Back walk to corridor, side hop till Deku Babas appear. Slash one, slash 2, Jump attack 3rd. Side hop to Deku Tree sequence, back walk to entrance.

Deku Tree
Back walk to vines.
Climb vines.
Run to door, rolling into it.
Open door, delect Deku Nut and open door.
Jump onto platform, jump to edge, roll into chest button mashing A.
Get Slingshot, equip it and Deku Sticks.
Z-Target the Ladder, hold C button with it, run off edge straight and let go in air. HOLD UP to keep walking as ladder falls. You will begin climbing during the sequence.
Go back out to main room.
Jump and then Z-target Skulltula and fire as you move at it.
Climb straight up, dodging 2nd Skulltula.
At top, Z-target Skulltula from side. Jump attack and then run off edge.
As you fall, jump attack to ledge.
Light Deku Stick, burn web.
Fire Deku Seed at eye (don't waste time on Shrub)
Damage yourself to go under rolling spike.
Run to block, button mash B to try to skip all text after first window.
Climb up nearest to right on block, edge a bit right and jump and hold slight right to grab earliest part.
Light Deku Stick and torches.
Stand in front of left torch on side facing door, light stick, open door, run right dodging the Skulltula, light web and SLASH before Stick fully burns (will burn, but you keep stick).
Push block 8 times, ROLL JUMP off it into torch (need to get higher arc).
Roll over web to Deku Baba on far side.
Face back, jump down and jump slash to land - 1 heart damage, though.
2-3-1 order of Deku Shrubs.
Enter Gohma rooom, go into first person mode, gently hold down on analog (fastest way to get eye to lock).
Z-target and slingshot in eye.
Jump attack with Deku Stick.
Upon landing, hit Z to lock off, then hold R and tap B as fast as possible.
Skip HC, enter light.

This is my route so far:

Wake Up, Backflip out and walk backwards, side hop to get 2 rupees.  Then scale hill side hopping, roll off last fence to get 6 rupees.  Enter maze, get 2 rupees in grass en route to sword.  Go to two blue rupee spots and cut bush's to get rupees, total of 12. Go outside, backflip at hole to get 1 rupee.  Go to sign, cut it, get 5.  Go to grass by water, get 2 rupees. Hop platforms in water, get 5.  Get 5 from behind counter in shop. Buy Deku Shield.  Lunge attack to small platform in water, hop to Mido.

Back walk to corridor, side hop till Deku Babas appear. Slash one, slash 2, Jump attack 3rd.  Side hop to Deku Tree sequence, back walk to entrance.

Deku Tree
Back walk to vines.
Climb vines.
Run to door, rolling into it.
Open door, delect Deku Nut and open door.
Jump onto platform, jump to edge, roll into chest button mashing A.
Get Slingshot, equip it and Deku Sticks.
Z-Target the Ladder, hold C button with it, run off edge straight and let go in air. HOLD UP to keep walking as ladder falls.  You will begin climbing during the sequence.
Go back out to main room.
Jump and then Z-target Skulltula and fire as you move at it.
Climb straight up, dodging 2nd Skulltula.
At top, Z-target Skulltula from side. Jump attack and then run off edge.
As you fall, jump attack to ledge.
Light Deku Stick, burn web.
Fire Deku Seed at eye (don't waste time on Shrub)
Damage yourself to go under rolling spike.
Run to block, button mash B to try to skip all text after first window.
Climb up nearest to right on block, edge a bit right and jump and hold slight right to grab earliest part.
Light Deku Stick and torches.
Stand in front of left torch on side facing door, light stick, open door, run right dodging the Skulltula, light web and SLASH before Stick fully burns (will burn, but you keep stick).
Push block 8 times, ROLL JUMP off it into torch (need to get higher arc).
Roll over web to Deku Baba on far side. 
Face back, jump down and jump slash to land - 1 heart damage, though.
2-3-1 order of Deku Shrubs.
Enter Gohma rooom, go into first person mode, gently hold down on analog (fastest way to get eye to lock).
Z-target and slingshot in eye.
Jump attack with Deku Stick.
Upon landing, hit Z to lock off, then hold R and tap B as fast as possible.
Skip HC, enter light.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2005-07-07 05:33:58 pm

2005-07-07 05:02:21 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

12. Go outside, backflip at hole to get 1 rupee. Go to sign, cut it, get 5. Go to grass by water, get 2 rupees. Hop platforms in water, get 5. Get 5 from behind counter in shop. Buy Deku Shield. Lunge attack to small platform in water, hop to Mido.

Back walk to corridor, side hop till Deku Babas appear. Slash one, slash 2, Jump attack 3rd. Side hop to Deku Tree sequence, back walk to entrance.

Deku Tree
Back walk to vines.
Climb vines.
Run to door, rolling into it.
Open door, delect Deku Nut and open door.
Jump onto platform, jump to edge, roll into chest button mashing A.
Get Slingshot, equip it and Deku Sticks.
Z-Target the Ladder, hold C button with it, run off edge straight and let go in air. HOLD UP to keep walking as ladder falls. You will begin climbing during the sequence.
Go back out to main room.
Jump and then Z-target Skulltula and fire as you move at it.
Climb straight up, dodging 2nd Skulltula.
At top, Z-target Skulltula from side. Jump attack and then run off edge.
As you fall, jump attack to ledge.
Light Deku Stick, burn web.
Fire Deku Seed at eye (don't waste time on Shrub)
Damage yourself to go under rolling spike.
Run to block, button mash B to try to skip all text after first window.
Climb up nearest to right on block, edge a bit right and jump and hold slight right to grab earliest part.
Light Deku Stick and torches.
Stand in front of left torch on side facing door, light stick, open door, run right dodging the Skulltula, light web and SLASH before Stick fully burns (will burn, but you keep stick).
ROLL JUMP off it into torch (need to get higher arc).Push block 8 times
Roll over web to Deku Baba on far side.
Face back, jump down and jump slash to land - 1 heart damage, though.
2-3-1 order of Deku Shrubs.
Enter Gohma room, go into first person mode, gently hold down on analog (fastest way to get eye to lock).
Z-target and slingshot in eye.
Jump attack with Deku Stick.
Upon landing, hit Z to lock off, then hold R and tap B as fast as possible.
Skip HC, enter light.

These are very minor improvements so correct me if I'm wrong....

12. Go outside, backflip at hole to get 1 rupee. Go to sign, cut it, get 5. Go to grass by water, Run backwards to the platforms. Hop platforms in water, get 5. Get 5 from behind counter in shop. Buy Deku Shield. Lunge attack to small platform in water, hop to Mido. (if you slash grass with three rupees inside each then this it is not needed to get the one inside shop) Random, also by running backwards you can actually run inside the pond, climb the first block then roll to the others.

Back walk to corridor, side hop till Deku Babas appear. Slash one, slash 2, Jump attack 3rd
You can spin attack 1 and 2 if you'd like.

ROLL JUMP off it into torch (need to get higher arc).Push block 8 times...Push Block Three times (two is risky) standon top, Face the torch, Roll jump and take out the deku stick in mid air.

Roll over web to Deku Baba on far side. (this is for the deku stick) How many are you getting?

Face back, jump down and jump slash to land - 1 heart damage, though.
since your getting that extra deku stick do you think it would be faster to backflip?

2-3-1 order of Deku Shrubs.
ThenRun backwards in the hall way to Gomha.

[quote]

12. Go outside, backflip at hole to get 1 rupee.  Go to sign, cut it, get 5.  Go to grass by water, get 2 rupees. Hop platforms in water, get 5.  Get 5 from behind counter in shop. Buy Deku Shield.  Lunge attack to small platform in water, hop to Mido.

Back walk to corridor, side hop till Deku Babas appear. Slash one, slash 2, Jump attack 3rd.  Side hop to Deku Tree sequence, back walk to entrance.

Deku Tree
Back walk to vines.
Climb vines.
Run to door, rolling into it.
Open door, delect Deku Nut and open door.
Jump onto platform, jump to edge, roll into chest button mashing A.
Get Slingshot, equip it and Deku Sticks.
Z-Target the Ladder, hold C button with it, run off edge straight and let go in air. HOLD UP to keep walking as ladder falls.  You will begin climbing during the sequence.
Go back out to main room.
Jump and then Z-target Skulltula and fire as you move at it.
Climb straight up, dodging 2nd Skulltula.
At top, Z-target Skulltula from side. Jump attack and then run off edge.
As you fall, jump attack to ledge.
Light Deku Stick, burn web.
Fire Deku Seed at eye (don't waste time on Shrub)
Damage yourself to go under rolling spike.
Run to block, button mash B to try to skip all text after first window.
Climb up nearest to right on block, edge a bit right and jump and hold slight right to grab earliest part.
Light Deku Stick and torches.
Stand in front of left torch on side facing door, light stick, open door, run right dodging the Skulltula, light web and SLASH before Stick fully burns (will burn, but you keep stick).
ROLL JUMP off it into torch (need to get higher arc).Push block 8 times
Roll over web to Deku Baba on far side. 
Face back, jump down and jump slash to land - 1 heart damage, though.
2-3-1 order of Deku Shrubs.
Enter Gohma room, go into first person mode, gently hold down on analog (fastest way to get eye to lock).
Z-target and slingshot in eye.
Jump attack with Deku Stick.
Upon landing, hit Z to lock off, then hold R and tap B as fast as possible.
Skip HC, enter light.

[/quote]
[b]These are very minor improvements so correct me if I'm wrong....[/b]

12. Go outside, backflip at hole to get 1 rupee.  Go to sign, cut it, get 5.  Go to grass by water, [b]Run backwards to the platforms[/b]. Hop platforms in water, get 5.  Get 5 from behind counter in shop. Buy Deku Shield.  Lunge attack to small platform in water, hop to Mido. [b](if you slash  grass with three rupees inside each then this it is not needed to get the one inside shop)[/b] [u]Random, also by running backwards you can actually run inside the pond, climb the first block then roll to the others.[/u]

Back walk to corridor, side hop till Deku Babas appear. Slash one, slash 2, Jump attack 3rd 
[b]You can spin attack 1 and 2 if you'd like.[/b]
 
ROLL JUMP off it into torch (need to get higher arc).Push block 8 times...[b]Push Block Three times (two is risky) standon top, Face the torch, Roll jump and take out the deku stick in mid air.[/b]

Roll over web to Deku Baba on far side. [b](this is for the deku stick) How many are you getting?[/b]

Face back, jump down and jump slash to land - 1 heart damage, though.
[b]since your getting that extra deku stick do you think it would be faster to backflip?[/b]

2-3-1 order of Deku Shrubs.
Then[b]Run backwards in the hall way to Gomha.[/b]

TSA

2005-07-07 05:17:09 pm

Retired

1. The distance from the grass to the platforms is like 2 feet. I walk backwards to the grass, though...

2. Thanks for the tip on the block.

3. I do backwalk down the corridor...I just didn't say.

4. Yeah, I know.

TSA

2005-07-09 04:19:06 am

Retired

Just letting everyone know, I make up my 4 mins by the end of Young Link's segment...

heh...

Emptyeye

Edit history:

Emptyeye: 2005-07-09 04:24:22 am

2005-07-09 04:23:22 am

Talk to the Hand

Nice!

Any way you think you can take off another....what is it, 3:30 or so to get it to sub-5 according to TG timing?

yoshmaster5

2005-07-09 04:27:42 am

Also tenkiforecast

Quote:

Just letting everyone know, I make up my 4 mins by the end of Young Link's segment...

heh...

wow...

Cygnus

Edit history:

Cygnus: 2005-07-09 08:05:37 am

2005-07-09 08:05:13 am

Ben Goldberg

Quote:

Any way you think you can take off another....what is it, 3:30 or so to get it to sub-5 according to TG timing?

I'm guessing he can, since he figured out that trick for the water temple, and another trick for the shadow temple that saves about a minute.

whacko_jacko

2005-07-09 08:52:05 am

all i can say is:
Yipee!!!!!!!

Gorash

2005-07-09 10:03:59 am

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

IIRC the announcement was "Crushing 5 hour mark" and not getting sub 5.

Any chance you could slap that fairy once or twice?
*Listen*Listen* well, get the VGCats link yourself this time Wink

GWing_02

2005-07-09 06:10:57 pm

something or another

Quote:

Just letting everyone know, I make up my 4 mins by the end of Young Link's segment...

heh...

Awesome. Just plain awesome. Awesome.

TSA

2005-07-10 07:55:24 am

Retired

Well, it's interesting.

For example, I'm debating whether or not to lose my shield in Dodongo's Cavern. There is a spot the fastest movements will result in you losing your shield. This hurts me in Jabu Jabu's Belly on Barinade cuz I could use the crouch stab 1 time at 1 part, which I don't think warrants the time spent trying to save the shield.

Also, Deku Sticks on Lizalfos. I do it on the 2nd set in Dodongo's Cavern cuz it is the most dangerous of the two with such small platforms. Going out of the way, though, to get two more Deku Sticks is not worth it.

I get the text skip to work all the time in Dodongo's Cavern for the "traps" part in the narrow corridors, but everytime I drop down after the bombs, the Lava Text goes off...

Also, I have only pulled off the skip text in Deku Tree 1 time ever.

GWing_02

2005-07-10 08:06:24 am

something or another

Well, can you pull off the fastest route losing the shield, and do without the crouch stab later with consistency? I guess that's the biggest question.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2005-07-10 08:47:46 pm

2005-07-10 08:45:26 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Keep the shield. You are reffering to the bridge where you roll into the keese. Something so tiny like that can not capare to when you use the low stab. Which is on barinade. There are many spots where this is useful but we forget to use it. Saving a sheild saves you from getting another one for the iron knuckle in the child spirit temple.

SamSim

2005-07-11 01:02:07 am

So what's this crouch stab thing I keep hearing about?

TSA

2005-07-11 03:19:27 am

Retired

I'm talking about the block room before Dodongo's upper lair room. There are 2 Fire Keese, and the 2nd one always hits me.

And it is not worth saving your shield - I pick up enough Deku Sticks (3) before Jabu Jabu that I use those instead of Crouch Stab because 1 Deku Stick causes his 2nd round of Jelly's to Appear, and the last 2 take him out when he zooms around the room.

I also am not getting the extra botle. because the time it takes to back walk to Lon Lon Ranch from the Castle = about same time to jump down waterfall, get fish, back walk back up to King Zora's throne. The Cucco Game + Talon's Text also factors in, and that part alone takes as much time as getting the Blue Flame again in that room with the sliding platforms you push. So, I don't think it is worth getting that bottle.

IT IS worth Getting the Hylian Shield...you can do Crouch Stabs on Phantom Ganon which is excellent and faster than my way, and you can use it on Morpha as well. For Twinrova, Bongo Bongo and Ganondorf, it's best to get off as many Crouch Stabs as possible (Jump Attack+ 1 or 2 Crouch Stabs) before going into Quick Spins. The Hylian shield is RIGHT BY the Hookshot...so it is made up alone on Phantom Ganon (he is done in 1-2 drops after reflecting an energy ball at him).

As I said, I've done about 20 Young Link practice runs last week. I got 3-4 minutes gained on my 5:04 run. I plan to gain at least 4-5 more mins in Adult Link's segment this week on average. The following week after this I leave for California for a few days 21-26th, so maybe I'll have the run done before then, if not, I'll do runs after. Next week I plan to do full segment trials to get warmed up. So perhaps it won't be until I get back that I do full run attempts.

I'm talking about the block room before Dodongo's upper lair room.  There are 2 Fire Keese, and the 2nd one always hits me.

And it is not worth saving your shield - I pick up enough Deku Sticks (3) before Jabu Jabu that I use those instead of Crouch Stab because 1 Deku Stick causes his 2nd round of Jelly's to Appear, and the last 2 take him out when he zooms around the room.

I also am not getting the extra botle.  because the time it takes to back walk to Lon Lon Ranch from the Castle = about same time to jump down waterfall, get fish, back walk back up to King Zora's throne.  The Cucco Game + Talon's Text also factors in, and that part alone takes as much time as getting the Blue Flame again in that room with the sliding platforms you push.  So, I don't think it is worth getting that bottle.

IT IS worth Getting the Hylian Shield...you can do Crouch Stabs on Phantom Ganon which is excellent and faster than my way, and you can use it on Morpha as well.  For Twinrova, Bongo Bongo and Ganondorf, it's best to get off as many Crouch Stabs as possible (Jump Attack+ 1 or 2 Crouch Stabs) before going into Quick Spins. The Hylian shield is RIGHT BY the Hookshot...so it is made up alone on Phantom Ganon (he is done in 1-2 drops after reflecting an energy ball at him).

As I said, I've done about 20 Young Link practice runs last week.  I got 3-4 minutes gained on my 5:04 run.  I plan to gain at least 4-5 more mins in Adult Link's segment this week on average.  The following week after this I leave for California for a few days 21-26th, so maybe I'll have the run done before then, if not, I'll do runs after.  Next week I plan to do full segment trials to get warmed up.  So perhaps it won't be until I get back that I do full run attempts.