Ocarina of Time - All Categories[N64]

2009-07-02 02:16:05 pm

...?

Quote from Samoht:

...Youre seriously going to make glitching a neccessity?

Basically your teaching the player how to go Oob too, and undoubtedly create more SBs

I think thats the point.

loaf

2009-07-02 02:18:24 pm

Hello, just a few minutes ago I believed to have found something that may end up being a possible super slide of some sort, I was backwalking and started switching between Link's two-armed weapons at a constant pace and Link while I kept doing that Link appeared to just be sliding instead of backwalking. It was at the same speed of a backwalk and all but it wasn't one, can anyone confirm if this can be used in anyway? Thanks! Grin

Cosmo.

2009-07-02 02:27:04 pm

This statue's one-eyed gaze pierces into your mind

everybody seems to think they can break Redux... but we know all of links options at all times, we know exactly the limitations of hovering, the requirements for ISG and ground jumping, how far megaflips and how fast superslides go.. all the wall clipping methods.... you guys need a little more faith in our ability to prevent the player from breaking the game.

Quote from loaf:

Hello, just a few minutes ago I believed to have found something that may end up being a possible super slide of some sort, I was backwalking and started switching between Link's two-armed weapons at a constant pace and Link while I kept doing that Link appeared to just be sliding instead of backwalking. It was at the same speed of a backwalk and all but it wasn't one, can anyone confirm if this can be used in anyway? Thanks! Grin

hi there

this can used to skip the owl texts.

Chimpas

2009-07-02 03:31:17 pm

Life is a glitch, then you die...

I have a doubt and I hope to have an answer: insn't it possible to use deku sticks as a shield? if it is then, would be possible to scape the forest with deku stick and use them to SS and hovering???

In_Pieces

2009-07-02 03:40:34 pm

...?

Quote from Chimpas:

I have a doubt and I hope to have an answer: insn't it possible to use deku sticks as a shield? if it is then, would be possible to scape the forest with deku stick and use them to SS and hovering???

Nope.
The fastest way to escape the forest now is MrGrunz's new method that uses a water ESS to clip through the kokiri guarding the exit to the bridge.

Chimpas

2009-07-02 05:17:31 pm

Life is a glitch, then you die...

Quote from In_Pieces:

Quote from Chimpas:

I have a doubt and I hope to have an answer: insn't it possible to use deku sticks as a shield? if it is then, would be possible to scape the forest with deku stick and use them to SS and hovering???

Nope.
The fastest way to escape the forest now is MrGrunz's new method that uses a water ESS to clip through the kokiri guarding the exit to the bridge.

but then how you plan to SS, would you scape with the shield?

In_Pieces

2009-07-02 06:30:52 pm

...?

Thats the new way.
In a route using that you dont superslide, just backwalk to lake hylia and then savewarp( i think, i'm not absolutely sure about that) Once you become an adult and get the hylian shield you can superslide.

AKA

2009-07-02 09:13:43 pm

He's back!

Quote from Cosmo.:

everybody seems to think they can break Redux... but we know all of links options at all times, we know exactly the limitations of hovering, the requirements for ISG and ground jumping, how far megaflips and how fast superslides go.. all the wall clipping methods.... you guys need a little more faith in our ability to prevent the player from breaking the game.

How far are you from completing it? It seems very limited what you can do with the OoT engine, since the same structural areas still exist. In relation to game breaking have you protected the big overworld sequence breaks in the form of ToT and RBA. Infact it probably wouldn't hurt if BA/RBA became an essential trick since you could use it to obtain keys in the Temples or get an unobtainable item on B or simply do it so bombs can be used to destroy a boulder in a pre-rendered area. There is also a whole bunch of miscellanous tricks which have never been mentioned such as controlling sidehop distance when Link is hugging a wall. Infact it's even possible use it to warp onto knee high ledges.

[quote="Cosmo."]
everybody seems to think they can break Redux... but we know all of links options at all times, we know exactly the limitations of hovering, the requirements for ISG and ground jumping, how far megaflips and how fast superslides go.. all the wall clipping methods.... you guys need a little more faith in our ability to prevent the player from breaking the game.
[/quote]

How far are you from completing it? It seems very limited what you can do with the OoT engine, since the same structural areas still exist. In relation to game breaking have you protected the big overworld sequence breaks in the form of ToT and RBA. Infact it probably wouldn't hurt if BA/RBA became an essential trick since you could use it to obtain keys in the Temples or get an unobtainable item on B or simply do it so bombs can be used to destroy a boulder in a pre-rendered area. There is also a whole bunch of miscellanous tricks which have never been mentioned such as controlling sidehop distance when Link is hugging a wall. Infact it's even possible use it to warp onto knee high ledges.

Suddoman

2009-07-02 09:15:08 pm

Quote from Chimpas:

Quote from In_Pieces:

Quote from Chimpas:

I have a doubt and I hope to have an answer: insn't it possible to use deku sticks as a shield? if it is then, would be possible to scape the forest with deku stick and use them to SS and hovering???

Nope.
The fastest way to escape the forest now is MrGrunz's new method that uses a water ESS to clip through the kokiri guarding the exit to the bridge.

but then how you plan to SS, would you scape with the shield?

This is one of the main reasons the 2 routes have to be timed so extensively and also why the TAS route hasn't changed (to my knowledge).

Also: lol force the player to use the 20 Bomb Bag over the bombchu slot to get keys for Water Temple.

Runnerguy2489

2009-07-03 10:59:39 am

I'm not your buddy, guay!

I started a playthrough of the game with the new route today. Couple things:

-The fisherman text is actually closer to 20 seconds. Sad

Which nearly kills the entire savings (I estimated 25 saved). So now I don't know if this route is faster, it would come down to how good my 30 second estimate was on beating my old segment 4.
-We need to catch a bug somewhere before segment 7. Segment 6 would be the best where time was moving but I can't think of any. The two in segment 5 aren't too bad though, the one in the rock in Kakariko and the one in the rock in the graveyard.
-The pauses to change equipment need optimized and I'm not sure what's the best way. Up to segment 8 I think I'm good and have Hookshot on C-left, Bombs on C-down, and Odd Potion on C-right. Then in the next segment I need the hookshot through Goron City and to kill a skulltula when scaling DM, I need bugs to get bottle on B, I need the poacher's saw on C-right to RBA, and need the ocarina to play Zelda's lullaby.

So there are a couple pauses and the bombs must stay in a C-button throughout. I could even just RBA in the fountain and not equip the ocarina and just OI the song. Or I could RBA as soon as I get the saw and then have hookshot, ocarina, and bombs.

Then it gets more complicated in the next segment, since I need bombs to superslide, hookshot to cross gerudo, bugs to get bottle on B and poacher's saw to give to the guy for broken knife. Do you get bombs back on a C-button after the light arrow cutscene? If so I can take them off and have hookshot, bugs, and poacher's saw after the superslide.

EDIT: There's also the fact that if you have trouble getting to the ocarina and hookshot from the item screen, sometimes that requires two pauses to get those equipped.

I started a playthrough of the game with the new route today. Couple things:

-The fisherman text is actually closer to 20 seconds.  :( Which nearly kills the entire savings (I estimated 25 saved). So now I don't know if this route is faster, it would come down to how good my 30 second estimate was on beating my old segment 4. 
-We need to catch a bug somewhere before segment 7. Segment 6 would be the best where time was moving but I can't think of any. The two in segment 5 aren't too bad though, the one in the rock in Kakariko and the one in the rock in the graveyard. 
-The pauses to change equipment need optimized and I'm not sure what's the best way. Up to segment 8 I think I'm good and have Hookshot on C-left, Bombs on C-down, and Odd Potion on C-right. Then in the next segment I need the hookshot through Goron City and to kill a skulltula when scaling DM, I need bugs to get bottle on B, I need the poacher's saw on C-right to RBA, and need the ocarina to play Zelda's lullaby.

So there are a couple pauses and the bombs must stay in a C-button throughout. I could even just RBA in the fountain and not equip the ocarina and just OI the song. Or I could RBA as soon as I get the saw and then have hookshot, ocarina, and bombs.

Then it gets more complicated in the next segment, since I need bombs to superslide, hookshot to cross gerudo, bugs to get bottle on B and poacher's saw to give to the guy for broken knife. Do you get bombs back on a C-button after the light arrow cutscene? If so I can take them off and have hookshot, bugs, and poacher's saw after the superslide.

EDIT: There's also the fact that if you have trouble getting to the ocarina and hookshot from the item screen, sometimes that requires two pauses to get those equipped.

Samoht

Edit history:

Samoht: 2009-07-05 01:35:43 pm

2009-07-03 04:22:20 pm

Also there's the fact that you have to watch the kakariko cutscene since you never went as a child Cry

EDIT: fishing text is exactly 17 extra seconds, and kakariko cutscene is exactly 8 seconds. so that's minus 25 seconds!!!

mikechenkeha

2009-07-05 04:40:36 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I know this is all temple run, but I have a question.
Is it true that you can skip water temple boss key on the "regular" version by bomb hover?

ZFG

Edit history:

ZFG: 2009-07-06 12:50:22 pm

2009-07-05 04:53:58 pm

MrGrunz is a guay

Quote from mikechenkeha:

I know this is all temple run, but I have a question.
Is it true that you can skip water temple boss key on the "regular" version by bomb hover?

Yes. Bloobiebla did it in his TAS.

Genocide

2009-07-06 12:23:00 pm

No, this is the correct topic...

Manocheese

2009-07-06 12:41:53 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from Genocide:

No, this is the correct topic...

It was in the ALttP topic.

Samoht

2009-07-06 10:15:09 pm

Another timesaver, water jumpslash ESS should be used in segment 8 when going from kakariko to kokiri using the little river. It's very easy to get the angle and start the ESS. And another suggestion, maybe segments 7 and 8 should be combined to use another water jumpslash ESS towards kokiri after the bomb drops. It would suck to lengthen the segment after the bomb drop luck though.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2009-07-07 10:53:17 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

My best advice would be for someone, or multiple people, to make a TAS test run like groobo did for all the possible strat variations which could possibly be the fastest strat. It really didn't take groobo that long and that was for whole game and he doesn't even specialize in OoT or console games.

the TAS test runs just need to have a quality similar to what a good run of the segment would be for runnerguy, so taking into account the difficulty of the segment could help with the estimation. That is, try to make the TAS test run good if the segment is easy, and not TAS-like if it's really hard.

For strat variations: could you use bombs instead of hookshot to kill that skulita to save menu changing? And what about using the mega-flip bridge skip instead of hookshot, again for menu usage reduction?

Runnerguy2489

2009-07-08 07:24:52 pm

I'm not your buddy, guay!

Quote from Samoht:

Also there's the fact that you have to watch the kakariko cutscene since you never went as a child Cry

EDIT: fishing text is exactly 17 extra seconds, and kakariko cutscene is exactly 8 seconds. so that's minus 25 seconds!!!

That's gross, exactly the time estimated that it was faster between segments 3 and 4. Alright, well I will need an estimation on the way I was planning on doing it before the newest escape was found.

Quote from Samoht:

Another timesaver, water jumpslash ESS should be used in segment 8 when going from kakariko to kokiri using the little river. It's very easy to get the angle and start the ESS. And another suggestion, maybe segments 7 and 8 should be combined to use another water jumpslash ESS towards kokiri after the bomb drops. It would suck to lengthen the segment after the bomb drop luck though.

How much slower is water jumpslash ESS compared to SS? SS is speed 27, what is the water jumpslash ESS? It's pretty fast...

The setup there at the river would be quicker with ESS jumpslash than crossing, and pulling out a bomb and going into a superslide.

I was also going to look into segment 7 and 8 again, and see if splitting them is truly faster. In order to do this, I will measure the time loss from Cojiro to entering Kokiri. I will then take my 5 weakest bomb usages, and see how much time they save. If it's more, then I keep the segments separate. If it's less, then they are combined. I will factor in the water jumpslash ESS if it take even more time off (it will also save a bomb).

There's so much extra with this run now just to see what route is the best. In the end I just want to be right and have the fastest route.

I could probably kill the skulltula with a bomb...but generally each bomb is more precious than the 3 seconds it would take to swap out something for the hookshot. That is, almost all optional bombs will be saving more than 3 seconds. And the megaflip hasn't been done yet without ISG which isn't possible on V1.0.

[quote="Samoht"]
Also there's the fact that you have to watch the kakariko cutscene since you never went as a child :'(

EDIT: fishing text is exactly 17 extra seconds, and kakariko cutscene is exactly 8 seconds. so that's minus 25 seconds!!!
[/quote]
That's gross, exactly the time estimated that it was faster between segments 3 and 4. Alright, well I will need an estimation on the way I was planning on doing it before the newest escape was found.

[quote="Samoht"]
Another timesaver, water jumpslash ESS should be used in segment 8 when going from kakariko to kokiri using the little river. It's very easy to get the angle and start the ESS. And another suggestion, maybe segments 7 and 8 should be combined to use another water jumpslash ESS towards kokiri after the bomb drops. It would suck to lengthen the segment after the bomb drop luck though.
[/quote]
How much slower is water jumpslash ESS compared to SS? SS is speed 27, what is the water jumpslash ESS? It's pretty fast...

The setup there at the river would be quicker with ESS jumpslash than crossing, and pulling out a bomb and going into a superslide.

I was also going to look into segment 7 and 8 again, and see if splitting them is truly faster. In order to do this, I will measure the time loss from Cojiro to entering Kokiri. I will then take my 5 weakest bomb usages, and see how much time they save. If it's more, then I keep the segments separate. If it's less, then they are combined. I will factor in the water jumpslash ESS if it take even more time off (it will also save a bomb).

There's so much extra with this run now just to see what route is the best. In the end I just want to be right and have the fastest route.

I could probably kill the skulltula with a bomb...but generally each bomb is more precious than the 3 seconds it would take to swap out something for the hookshot. That is, almost all optional bombs will be saving more than 3 seconds. And the megaflip hasn't been done yet without ISG which isn't possible on V1.0.

AKA

2009-07-08 07:34:20 pm

He's back!

Quote from Runnerguy2489:

How much slower is water jumpslash ESS compared to SS? SS is speed 27, what is the water jumpslash ESS? It's pretty fast...

Since I use different values for movement speeds compared to everyone else I'll say that. SS is 1.3x faster than a water ESS and 1.8x faster than a normal ESS

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2009-07-09 03:00:50 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

Also take into account how much better you could do the segments if they were split.

TAS test runs please. It's basically doing a normal run but you make save states everywhere so you hardly have to retry much, they're quite quick to make as groobo showed.

Old way was going to be 3 nut escape, plus two owl skips?

If you guys ever find a way to bypass that fairy ocarina cut scene this new way would obliterate all...

Suddoman

2009-07-14 02:59:52 am

Two things.

What happened to the any% SS? Where are you Cs1987?

Did the 100% SS route ever get finished?

Cs1987

2009-07-14 05:00:58 am

Some guy

I'm still around. I just haven't had anything interesting to say for a month or so. Tongue

I've completed the run three times since, and my best time so far is 1:43, so there's still a fair bit of improvement to do. I'm still persevering with the run, though almost all of my attempts fail in the first half hour.

Suddoman

2009-07-14 01:24:14 pm

Quote from Cs1987:

I'm still around. I just haven't had anything interesting to say for a month or so. Tongue

I've completed the run three times since, and my best time so far is 1:43, so there's still a fair bit of improvement to do. I'm still persevering with the run, though almost all of my attempts fail in the first half hour.

Well isn't the first half hour the most difficult part? I mean the chus early is enough to break the run most of the time right?

What is your aimed time, 1:30?

Samoht

Edit history:

Samoht: 2009-07-14 05:51:12 pm

2009-07-14 02:58:01 pm

couple things:

I found a tiny little timesaver in segment 5 of the run. When going to pull dampes grevestone, there is a poe right near by. by slightly going towards it, then heading to the grave, it will charge at you. It will damage you while you are pulling the grave so you can move while the gravestone is still moving into position. So you can enter the grave slightly early Smiley

Also I have a small theory. Its unlikely, but maybe the trigger for the fishing text as adult is telling the fishing guy that you want to quit as a kid. This can be avoided by stealing the fishing rod. So if that works then we can skip the fishing text Cheesy

I'll test it out.

EDIT: nvm it doesnt work. the trigger is probably catching the record fish.

viktor

2009-07-14 03:00:05 pm

hi, im just posting here because im curious. i dont plan to make a speedrun or something myself, i only enjoy watching them and i saw a speed run for oot today here were they only needed 3 medallions. can someone explain how that is possible? i havnt found that info anywere. i didnt saw something special at all, he just started and there zelda was and everything and you got the light arrows..