Ocarina of Time - All Categories[N64]

Cs1987

2008-07-18 07:10:30 am

Some guy

Quote from groobo:

Quote from Runnerguy2489:

1/1666ish, haha

I thought about the possibility to pick up the 20 rupees in the cucco route and the 20 at the big poe guy, and buy bombs when you get arrows for the second set of bombs; that would buy you the superslide to the forest and the one at Death Mountain to the fairy where the rocks are falling. I doubt that is any faster though.

That would be slower, yes.

I wasn't even able to buy bombs last time I tried that, even though I had a bomb bag that wasn't full. Though that may have had something to do with the fact that I got the bomb bag from DC in that run, then RBA'd it later. Does anyone know why you can buy arrows but not bombs if you do that?

groobo

2008-07-18 08:28:52 am

boss

2 bomb drops = fail

Let's leave it at that.

Enterim

2008-07-18 01:41:19 pm

I'd consider 'no major skips' to entail getting all the medallions/spiritual stones by defeating the bosses, regardless of placement or character age and defeating Ganondorf and Ganon. I believe skipping the trials is A-OK because it's just the same room but without textures loaded, no different than Shadow Temple early entrance. Going out of bounds doesn't seem to be a problem at all as long as the requirements above are met.

I have no idea what 'RBA' and 'BA' are though; I've only read page 315 onward. Forgive me if this has already been summated earlier.

Runnerguy2489

2008-07-18 04:08:00 pm

I'm not your buddy, guay!

Quote from Cs1987:

They don't actually use the same amount of nuts, though, unless you were comparing my method with the three nut clip. The clip can be done with two nuts, but it is just about impossible.

I was talking about the clip groobo did in his demo run. That used 3 nuts total. I don't think I'd even attempt AKA's clip with just 2 nuts total. But you are right, even if it uses 4 nuts that's only a few seconds. Actually I think I'd rather get a 4 or 5 nut run and do the rest perfect (great cucco collecting, DoT skip on first try, etc.) then have a 3 or 4 nut run with some mistakes.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2008-07-18 09:02:37 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

Can you get bomb drops from zombies, or kill them with the hookshot? If so getting a bomb drop at the start of segment 8 would be very convenient and allow for 2 more SSes during segment 7, and 2-3 more SSes for segment 8.

Getting 2/3 bombs would happen on average about once every 45 hours of playing, if you could do the rest of that segment well at a decent success rate it wouldn't be that unreasonable. You'd want to know how fast your average two bomb run would be compared to average 1 bomb run and what sort of distribution they had; as it might be better to spend a long time to get a more perfect 1 bomb run, or maybe doing the tossed bomb SSes, and spending the saved time to get better other segments.

AKA

2008-07-18 09:43:21 pm

He's back!

The redeads only drop magic jars.

mzxrules

2008-07-18 09:55:03 pm

zeldaspeedruns.com

Quote from Enterim:

I'd consider 'no major skips' to entail getting all the medallions/spiritual stones by defeating the bosses, regardless of placement or character age and defeating Ganondorf and Ganon. I believe skipping the trials is A-OK because it's just the same room but without textures loaded, no different than Shadow Temple early entrance. Going out of bounds doesn't seem to be a problem at all as long as the requirements above are met.

I have no idea what 'RBA' and 'BA' are though; I've only read page 315 onward. Forgive me if this has already been summated earlier.

Cosmo's kick-ass BA/RBA html page
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BA (Bottle Adventure) is where you change the item on the B button through the stealing the rod glitch. RBA (Reverse Bottle Adventure) is where you write the item value of your B button item to various slots within the ram to basically hack your inventory/equipment/bean popularity. But this depends on what items are equipped to your C-Right button.

[quote="Enterim"]
I'd consider 'no major skips' to entail getting all the medallions/spiritual stones by defeating the bosses, regardless of placement or character age and defeating Ganondorf and Ganon. I believe skipping the trials is A-OK because it's just the same room but without textures loaded, no different than Shadow Temple early entrance. Going out of bounds doesn't seem to be a problem at all as long as the requirements above are met.

I have no idea what 'RBA' and 'BA' are though; I've only read page 315 onward. Forgive me if this has already been summated earlier.
[/quote]
[url=http://cosmo.dreamhosters.com/RBA.html]Cosmo's kick-ass BA/RBA html page[/url]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BA (Bottle Adventure) is where you change the item on the B button through the stealing the rod glitch. RBA (Reverse Bottle Adventure) is where you write the item value of your B button item to various slots within the ram to basically hack your inventory/equipment/bean popularity. But this depends on what items are equipped to your C-Right button.

UchihaSasuke

2008-07-18 10:42:49 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

Quote from mzxrules:

Quote from Enterim:

I'd consider 'no major skips' to entail getting all the medallions/spiritual stones by defeating the bosses, regardless of placement or character age and defeating Ganondorf and Ganon. I believe skipping the trials is A-OK because it's just the same room but without textures loaded, no different than Shadow Temple early entrance. Going out of bounds doesn't seem to be a problem at all as long as the requirements above are met.

I have no idea what 'RBA' and 'BA' are though; I've only read page 315 onward. Forgive me if this has already been summated earlier.

Cosmo's kick-ass BA/RBA html page
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BA (Bottle Adventure) is where you change the item on the B button through the stealing the rod glitch. RBA (Reverse Bottle Adventure) is where you write the item value of your B button item to various slots within the ram to basically hack your inventory/equipment/bean popularity. But this depends on what items are equipped to your C-Right button.

the regular BA also consists on putting stuff on B when you are swordless and go forward and back in time (a good example of BA is getting light arrows on B)

[quote="mzxrules"]
[quote="Enterim"]
I'd consider 'no major skips' to entail getting all the medallions/spiritual stones by defeating the bosses, regardless of placement or character age and defeating Ganondorf and Ganon. I believe skipping the trials is A-OK because it's just the same room but without textures loaded, no different than Shadow Temple early entrance. Going out of bounds doesn't seem to be a problem at all as long as the requirements above are met.

I have no idea what 'RBA' and 'BA' are though; I've only read page 315 onward. Forgive me if this has already been summated earlier.
[/quote]
[url=http://cosmo.dreamhosters.com/RBA.html]Cosmo's kick-ass BA/RBA html page[/url]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BA (Bottle Adventure) is where you change the item on the B button through the stealing the rod glitch. RBA (Reverse Bottle Adventure) is where you write the item value of your B button item to various slots within the ram to basically hack your inventory/equipment/bean popularity. But this depends on what items are equipped to your C-Right button.
[/quote]

the regular BA also consists on putting stuff on B when you are swordless and go forward and back in time (a good example of BA is getting light arrows on B)

Toes

2008-07-19 02:04:04 pm

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

Quote from mzxrules:

Quote from Enterim:

I'd consider 'no major skips' to entail getting all the medallions/spiritual stones by defeating the bosses, regardless of placement or character age and defeating Ganondorf and Ganon. I believe skipping the trials is A-OK because it's just the same room but without textures loaded, no different than Shadow Temple early entrance. Going out of bounds doesn't seem to be a problem at all as long as the requirements above are met.

I have no idea what 'RBA' and 'BA' are though; I've only read page 315 onward. Forgive me if this has already been summated earlier.

Cosmo's kick-ass BA/RBA html page
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BA (Bottle Adventure) is where you change the item on the B button through the stealing the rod glitch. RBA (Reverse Bottle Adventure) is where you write the item value of your B button item to various slots within the ram to basically hack your inventory/equipment/bean popularity. But this depends on what items are equipped to your C-Right button.

the regular BA also consists on putting stuff on B when you are swordless and go forward and back in time (a good example of BA is getting light arrows on B)

Actually, BA can only be done with a bottle on B. ("Bottle" Adventure)

[quote="UchihaSasuke"]
[quote="mzxrules"]
[quote="Enterim"]
I'd consider 'no major skips' to entail getting all the medallions/spiritual stones by defeating the bosses, regardless of placement or character age and defeating Ganondorf and Ganon. I believe skipping the trials is A-OK because it's just the same room but without textures loaded, no different than Shadow Temple early entrance. Going out of bounds doesn't seem to be a problem at all as long as the requirements above are met.

I have no idea what 'RBA' and 'BA' are though; I've only read page 315 onward. Forgive me if this has already been summated earlier.
[/quote]
[url=http://cosmo.dreamhosters.com/RBA.html]Cosmo's kick-ass BA/RBA html page[/url]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BA (Bottle Adventure) is where you change the item on the B button through the stealing the rod glitch. RBA (Reverse Bottle Adventure) is where you write the item value of your B button item to various slots within the ram to basically hack your inventory/equipment/bean popularity. But this depends on what items are equipped to your C-Right button.
[/quote]

the regular BA also consists on putting stuff on B when you are swordless and go forward and back in time (a good example of BA is getting light arrows on B)
[/quote]

Actually, BA can only be done with a bottle on B. ("Bottle" Adventure)

Enterim

2008-07-19 02:06:49 pm

It's things like this that amaze me at how ten years later, unknown strangers know more about the game than the developers themselves.

Samoht

2008-07-20 07:09:16 pm

Just a question, is the GCN version better for speed running than v1.0, or is it the opposite?

Toes

2008-07-20 07:33:16 pm

Quote from Samoht:

Just a question, is the GCN version better for speed running than v1.0, or is it the opposite?

I'm sure v1.0 has advantages glitch-wise, but it also lags a lot more than the GCN version.

Cosmo.

2008-07-20 07:45:55 pm

This statue's one-eyed gaze pierces into your mind

speaking of lag...

runnerguy -- does the VC version have lag in areas like Kokiri Forest and the Marketplace? I noticed lag in those areas during my run through the SSBB trial version

In_Pieces

2008-07-20 08:33:13 pm

...?

Quote from Cosmo.:

speaking of lag...

runnerguy -- does the VC version have lag in areas like Kokiri Forest and the Marketplace? I noticed lag in those areas during my run through the SSBB trial version

I'm fairly sure VC has the least amount of lag. I downloaded it back around january after my n64 cart finally kicked the bucket, and imho it has less lag than n64(i had v1.0) and the SSBB trial. I've never played the GCN version, so that i am not sure about.

groobo

2008-07-20 10:32:40 pm

boss

Is it really THAT hard to actually time both for comparison? It'll prevent 5 pages of stupid, wild guessing.

UchihaSasuke

Edit history:

UchihaSasuke: 2008-07-21 02:15:10 am

2008-07-20 11:05:21 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

i own all of them and GC versions run the same as VC version. it lags less than the N64 version.
the SSBB demo lags apparently but that one is useless since it has a time limit.

i can do comparisons with all 4. what are really laggy areas for me to test? i know Ganon has lag at the start of the fight on N64 and the escape cutscene also lags on N64. on VC and GC they run faster but sometimes they lag a bit.
i don't remember other N64 laggy areas so i need help there.

edit: my connection is shit atm. i'll upload a few vids tomorrow.

groobo

2008-07-21 02:35:05 am

boss

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

edit: my connection is shit atm. i'll upload a few vids tomorrow.

Best thing you could do is to check how many frames long is a certain cutscene on both versions and give us exact numbers. Videos are of no use as they only provide more wild guessing and false assumptions when comparing minor things like that.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2008-07-21 03:14:33 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

If the cut scene doesn't lag that won't tell you much. You'd be best playing a laggy segment you can do reasonably the same every time a bunch of times on all the systems in questions, then look at the stats. Would give you a very good idea of how much time it actually saves. Or if you want a quick result to which lags more you could find a way to do a standardize repeating pattern at a laggy portion of the game. Something like holding left in view and seeing how many turns you can do before tower timer counts down all the way. Or running back and forth or laps at a really laggy spot.

Runnerguy2489

2008-07-21 05:12:46 am

I'm not your buddy, guay!

I'm very interested in how much lag there actually is. If I were to do this run I still don't know what version I would use. V1.0 has a 20 second edge based on the segments, and you get to break up a long segment, which means more optimization. Cheese beat my last segment by over 30 seconds, I had 8 seconds of mistakes on the escape but I had a faster Ganon strategy with the superslide.

Even if it was found that there was 30+ seconds of lag, I think I would still take the V1.0, simply because I cannot stand the GCN controller for this game. I tried the forest escape just for a little practice with the GCN and got frustrated after just a few minutes from the sensitivity and how the L button seems to randomly let go and reposition. My segment times will be so much better using the N64 controller.

The only area of the game I found to have a significant lag was the very last segment (some areas in Jabu and the bombflower massive explosion in DC had lag too, but they won't be in this run). The tower collapsing cutscene definitely has lag, and Ganon transforming does as well. You could measure both of those in exact frames. The Ganondorf light arrow hit lags pretty bad too, that could probably be measured fairly easily.

The tower escape definitely has lag as well, that might be a little harder to measure but it still shouldn't be too bad...if you get two runs with the same clock time then it should be pretty close. Holding Z as much as possible on the escape helps reduce lag, so it may help the N64 version catch up a little. I used it as much as possible in my last segment.

I'm very interested in how much lag there actually is. If I were to do this run I still don't know what version I would use. V1.0 has a 20 second edge based on the segments, and you get to break up a long segment, which means more optimization. Cheese beat my last segment by over 30 seconds, I had 8 seconds of mistakes on the escape but I had a faster Ganon strategy with the superslide.

Even if it was found that there was 30+ seconds of lag, I think I would still take the V1.0, simply because I cannot stand the GCN controller for this game. I tried the forest escape just for a little practice with the GCN and got frustrated after just a few minutes from the sensitivity and how the L button seems to randomly let go and reposition. My segment times will be so much better using the N64 controller.

The only area of the game I found to have a significant lag was the very last segment (some areas in Jabu and the bombflower massive explosion in DC had lag too, but they won't be in this run). The tower collapsing cutscene definitely has lag, and Ganon transforming does as well. You could measure both of those in exact frames. The Ganondorf light arrow hit lags pretty bad too, that could probably be measured fairly easily.

The tower escape definitely has lag as well, that might be a little harder to measure but it still shouldn't be too bad...if you get two runs with the same clock time then it should be pretty close. Holding Z as much as possible on the escape helps reduce lag, so it may help the N64 version catch up a little. I used it as much as possible in my last segment.

Greenalink

2008-07-21 08:13:01 am

DS Dictator

If my PC was fixed I would have posted my 2nd version of the Lag Comparision video where I play to of the same things at once and compare which one was less laggy (examples: Castle destroyed, Ganon intro, finish Ganon off, etc).

Cosmo.

2008-07-21 11:33:40 am

This statue's one-eyed gaze pierces into your mind

something weird... I was just stealing the rod with the silver scale and my dive meter started at "6" instead of "5" sometimes. I can't repeat it but I know i did it twice

??

UchihaSasuke

Edit history:

UchihaSasuke: 2008-07-21 01:57:41 pm

2008-07-21 01:44:27 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

well, i did manage to get 1 vid uploaded.

i was really bad on N64 because i'm the oppoiste from runnerguy with the controllers. the N64 controller i have lacks sensitivity and i can barely run.

also, i did some frame count with the cutscene of the castle crumbling and this is what i got:

N64: 1772
GC: 1666
VC: 1719

odd how the VC version somehow slows down here.

frame count for Ganon cutscene:

N64: 1834
GC: 1623
VC: 1613

now VC somehow gains 10 frames.
note: i pressed A on the navi text at the same time on all cutscenes.

In_Pieces

2008-07-21 02:21:08 pm

...?

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

well, i did manage to get 1 vid uploaded.

i was really bad on N64 because i'm the oppoiste from runnerguy with the controllers. the N64 controller i have lacks sensitivity and i can barely run.

also, i did some frame count with the cutscene of the castle crumbling and this is what i got:

N64: 1772
GC: 1666
VC: 1719

odd how the VC version somehow slows down here.

frame count for Ganon cutscene:

N64: 1834
GC: 1623
VC: 1613

now VC somehow gains 10 frames.
note: i pressed A on the navi text at the same time on all cutscenes.

Thats interesting about the frame count... But it is pretty obvious now that runs should be on GC or VC versions, the lag is significantly less then the n64 version...

Acryte

2008-07-21 03:34:24 pm

Zelda Scientist®

cosmo, check the level of height, I remember when doing the swimming in air glitch then higher you go, the dive number climbs, while the lower you go the lower it gets, maybe that has to do with it.

groobo

2008-07-21 10:41:44 pm

boss

1.0 probably still outbeats the gcn version. The second should be slightly faster IN THEORY. The first one has the advantage of breaking the "steal the rod" and "manipulate the bomb drop from a single bush" segments into two which means more optimization and you won't go crazy over trying to do both of those bitches in one go.