Ocarina of Time - All Categories[N64]

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-08 09:47:19 am

2006-06-08 09:47:07 am

Speed is the key.

I know 20 extra rupees in Kokiri Forest... and 5 extra in the Deku tree... you get at least 10 when descending Zora's river... and I think that there are 2 red rupees behind the waterfall in Zora's River!

Good work, this will work out. Wink

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-08 09:57:36 am

2006-06-08 09:53:35 am

Zelda Scientist®

how early do you need the beans and when do you go to dodongo's? By the time you get there, do you already have saria's song and the bracelets? If so you can grab the 50 ruppees on the way to dodogos. That would take alot less time than doing 15 someodd entrance/exits

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-08 04:53:35 pm

2006-06-08 10:05:06 am

Speed is the key.

We do Dodongo's after jabu-jabu, and I'm pretty sure there are 40 rupees behind the waterfall, so I don't think we'll have to go in and out of the shop that many times.

Amazing Ampharos, I wonder how it'll work out with the Day/Night cycle after completing jabu-jabu. There is one skulltula in Zora's Fountain that only appear at night, and there is one in Zora's River. I hope that we don't have to wait for night. I will have to play through the route and see.

Edit: There are 4 red rupees behind the waterfall. That =80 rupees.

Edit: I was wrong, those red rupees are only there as an adult. I've got another idea. We should descend down the river and pick up the chicken there, then go back up and jump to the ledge where you can climb a ladder. Climb up and drop down into the hole. There is a chest with 20 rupees + there we can get bugs, as you don't get any bugs in the route. :-/

Edit: Finally:

We do Dodongo's after jabu-jabu, and I'm pretty sure there are 40 rupees behind the waterfall, so I don't think we'll have to go in and out of the shop that many times.

Amazing Ampharos, I wonder how it'll work out with the Day/Night cycle after completing jabu-jabu. There is one skulltula in Zora's Fountain that only appear at night, and there is one in Zora's River. I hope that we don't have to wait for night. I will have to play through the route and see.

Edit: There are 4 red rupees behind the waterfall. That =80 rupees.

Edit: I was wrong, those red rupees are only there as an adult. I've got another idea. We should descend down the river and pick up the chicken there, then go back up and jump to the ledge where you can climb a ladder. Climb up and drop down into the hole. There is a chest with 20 rupees + there we can get bugs, as you don't get any bugs in the route. :-/

Edit: Finally:

[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/Yautja_Elite/GC_LegendofZeldaCollectorsEdition.jpg[/img]

Amazing Ampharos

2006-06-08 07:08:26 pm

Well, I thought about the rupees, and I came to a realization.

4 Magic Beans cost 100 rupees, not 90. 40+30+20+10=100. That's a pretty nasty miscalculation as 100 is actually a lot harder to deal with than 90. We'll have 99 rupees max. That means we have to get 1 rupee from the rocks a little further down the river which if I recall correctly is basically luck(I think those rocks are random drops). Of course, if any of those rocks can have bugs that saves time. If not we should be able to get some bugs by the rocks at Desert Collossus(I think at least one of them has guaranteed bugs, and that's the place we first need them; if I recall correctly the bean hole by the salesman is the one that doesn't have a skulltulla in it).

Ok, so we have the 40 rupees from the bottom of the diving, 20 rupees from the extended rupee route, and 5 from the Greak Deku Tree chest. That's 65 minus whatever fishing costs(I don't remember, but it shouldn't be much which we should make it up from random rupees in the two dungeons, but that means we can't rely on any random rupees at all). I really do think that entering and exiting the shop 5 times for 30 rupees and then getting the other 4 drifting down the river would be ideal. It's quite a trek to get that cucoo, not be able to buy the beans then, go all the way back up to that platform, climb a ladder, jump down a hole, and then collect the money. I just make it seem slow because I think we can abuse those pots at less time loss(you can't roll when carrying a cucoo either, cucoo's are really slow in the air when you jump, and we no longer need it for that piece of heart). Before JJ's belly we run right by those pots after lighting the torches and getting a fish so we can easily pause to break them for 6 rupees. Then after JJ's belly when we are worrying about the other rupees we can run down, break them again for another 6, and then we only have to do that screen transition 6 times for 30 rupees total out of those pots. As much as I like non-gimmick sources like the rupees in caves, I think gimmicks have to be considered if the normal sources require large, otherwise unneeded trips. Another option for some fast cash is to warp to the lost woods and simply grab the money in the arrow of green rupees pointing into the warp. I haven't counted it, but it seems to be around 10 rupees. I'm not sure it it's worth dealing with the warp transition twice, but it's there. I also seem to recall a blue rupee being on the bottom of lake hylia when you get the letter in a bottle. We seriously are at the point on this where random fast blue rupees save time so that might help. The money at the bottom of lake hylia and the 1 breaking of the pots after lighting the torches could easily put us at 77 rupees exiting Jabu Jabu. We make the smallest of detours exiting Zora's Domain to break the pots one more time. That's 83. We do the enter and exit gimmic twice for 95. Random rupees drifting FTW 99. You did say you think you can count on 10 random rupees from drifting. I don't know if that's true since you have to get out of the water for that piece of heart up on the ledge and you have to be out earlier so you can get beans without explosives, but if you could count on 10, you would be able to take your 77(maybe 1 or 2 more depending on how many green rupees we can easily get down here; that could matter), get 6 easily running by, enter the shop once, exit, get 6 more to put you at 89, and then get 10 by drifting. I feel uneasy relying on drifting that much, but it might work out and that actually sounds really fast. The only problem is that if you get screwed drifting and don't get enough(as in you end with any number except 99 or maybe 98), you have to make a fairly substantial deviation to fix it or lose the segment which started just as you started Jabu Jabu's belly. The real issue is if we can get rupees out of those rocks and if so how much, and single rupees really do matter at this point. However, I think that we have things in such a position where we can overcome this issue without serious deviation.

As per day night, we have time pass while we are backwalking across Hyrule field to Lake Hylia which is actually quite a bit; odds are we'll be near nightfall when we enter the lake. If we can get to the fishing game just before nightfall that would be good as there's better fishing at that time which means faster fish. We have to catch two successively bigger fish which sucks, but the time used doing that will probably eat up at least half the night if not more(maybe as much as the full night; that fishing game is slow). We then walk back and forth across lake hylia for those 40 rupees and we might have to spend a little time diving to get money on the bottom. Then we add in time spent near Jabu Jabu both running to the entrance and swimming back after the cutscene. I think we'll be long done with the first night, but we might actually be pretty close to the second night with the need to wait for a little bit. If we do have to wait near Jabu Jabu, remember there's a pot near his mouth with a guaranteed 1 rupee. It's ordinarily not worth it, but if we're waiting anyway... Luckily we don't have to worry about time at the desert collossus, we go to the market/hyrule castle area again several times, and we then get the sun's song which mostly eliminates the day/night woes. Actually, I think the only real issue on time is figuring out how much you'll have to kill as day/night progresses fast enough in OoT that you could probably use a little more time at lake hylia by pausing to slash some bushes if you were going to have to kill time, and that would give you some extra rupees which fixes our bean problem even more.

Ok, so I've said a lot of strange and somewhat contradictory things about rupee routes, but I think the issue is seeing what time it is after we get back into Zora's Domain(a trial run up to this point ending in smacking that statue mask of truth thing with the sword would probably be a good idea). If we're at night, we're good to go as is(but if it's late in the night we might have problems; are there other night dependant Skulltullas on the river other than that one right by Zora's Domain on the ladder?). If it's during the day we just have to slash a few bushes at lake hylia to kill some time and put it off until early night; odds are that comes with minimal time loss.

Well, I thought about the rupees, and I came to a realization.

4 Magic Beans cost 100 rupees, not 90.  40+30+20+10=100.  That's a pretty nasty miscalculation as 100 is actually a lot harder to deal with than 90.  We'll have 99 rupees max.  That means we have to get 1 rupee from the rocks a little further down the river which if I recall correctly is basically luck(I think those rocks are random drops).  Of course, if any of those rocks can have bugs that saves time.  If not we should be able to get some bugs by the rocks at Desert Collossus(I think at least one of them has guaranteed bugs, and that's the place we first need them; if I recall correctly the bean hole by the salesman is the one that doesn't have a skulltulla in it).

Ok, so we have the 40 rupees from the bottom of the diving, 20 rupees from the extended rupee route, and 5 from the Greak Deku Tree chest.  That's 65 minus whatever fishing costs(I don't remember, but it shouldn't be much which we should make it up from random rupees in the two dungeons, but that means we can't rely on any random rupees at all).  I really do think that entering and exiting the shop 5 times for 30 rupees and then getting the other 4 drifting down the river would be ideal.  It's quite a trek to get that cucoo, not be able to buy the beans then, go all the way back up to that platform, climb a ladder, jump down a hole, and then collect the money.  I just make it seem slow because I think we can abuse those pots at less time loss(you can't roll when carrying a cucoo either, cucoo's are really slow in the air when you jump, and we no longer need it for that piece of heart).  Before JJ's belly we run right by those pots after lighting the torches and getting a fish so we can easily pause to break them for 6 rupees.  Then after JJ's belly when we are worrying about the other rupees we can run down, break them again for another 6, and then we only have to do that screen transition 6 times for 30 rupees total out of those pots.  As much as I like non-gimmick sources like the rupees in caves, I think gimmicks have to be considered if the normal sources require large, otherwise unneeded trips.  Another option for some fast cash is to warp to the lost woods and simply grab the money in the arrow of green rupees pointing into the warp.  I haven't counted it, but it seems to be around 10 rupees.  I'm not sure it it's worth dealing with the warp transition twice, but it's there.  I also seem to recall a blue rupee being on the bottom of lake hylia when you get the letter in a bottle.  We seriously are at the point on this where random fast blue rupees save time so that might help.  The money at the bottom of lake hylia and the 1 breaking of the pots after lighting the torches could easily put us at 77 rupees exiting Jabu Jabu.  We make the smallest of detours exiting Zora's Domain to break the pots one more time.  That's 83.  We do the enter and exit gimmic twice for 95.  Random rupees drifting FTW 99.  You did say you think you can count on 10 random rupees from drifting.  I don't know if that's true since you have to get out of the water for that piece of heart up on the ledge and you have to be out earlier so you can get beans without explosives, but if you could count on 10, you would be able to take your 77(maybe 1 or 2 more depending on how many green rupees we can easily get down here; that could matter), get 6 easily running by, enter the shop once, exit, get 6 more to put you at 89, and then get 10 by drifting.  I feel uneasy relying on drifting that much, but it might work out and that actually sounds really fast.  The only problem is that if you get screwed drifting and don't get enough(as in you end with any number except 99 or maybe 98), you have to make a fairly substantial deviation to fix it or lose the segment which started just as you started Jabu Jabu's belly.  The real issue is if we can get rupees out of those rocks and if so how much, and single rupees really do matter at this point.  However, I think that we have things in such a position where we can overcome this issue without serious deviation.

As per day night, we have time pass while we are backwalking across Hyrule field to Lake Hylia which is actually quite a bit; odds are we'll be near nightfall when we enter the lake.  If we can get to the fishing game just before nightfall that would be good as there's better fishing at that time which means faster fish.  We have to catch two successively bigger fish which sucks, but the time used doing that will probably eat up at least half the night if not more(maybe as much as the full night; that fishing game is slow).  We then walk back and forth across lake hylia for those 40 rupees and we might have to spend a little time diving to get money on the bottom.  Then we add in time spent near Jabu Jabu both running to the entrance and swimming back after the cutscene.  I think we'll be long done with the first night, but we might actually be pretty close to the second night with the need to wait for a little bit.  If we do have to wait near Jabu Jabu, remember there's a pot near his mouth with a guaranteed 1 rupee.  It's ordinarily not worth it,  but if we're waiting anyway...  Luckily we don't have to worry about time at the desert collossus, we go to the market/hyrule castle area again several times, and we then get the sun's song which mostly eliminates the day/night woes.  Actually, I think the only real issue on time is figuring out how much you'll have to kill as day/night progresses fast enough in OoT that you could probably use a little more time at lake hylia by pausing to slash some bushes if you were going to have to kill time, and that would give you some extra rupees which fixes our bean problem even more.

Ok, so I've said a lot of strange and somewhat contradictory things about rupee routes, but I think the issue is seeing what time it is after we get back into Zora's Domain(a trial run up to this point ending in smacking that statue mask of truth thing with the sword would probably be a good idea).  If we're at night, we're good to go as is(but if it's late in the night we might have problems; are there other night dependant Skulltullas on the river other than that one right by Zora's Domain on the ladder?).  If it's during the day we just have to slash a few bushes at lake hylia to kill some time and put it off until early night; odds are that comes with minimal time loss.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2007-07-18 06:12:23 pm

2006-06-08 07:31:16 pm

Speed is the key.

I can't believe I miscalculated those rupees... Lips Sealed

Your reasoning seems good, but there are some facts that I need to tell you about:

-Fishing game costs 20 rupees each time. That's 40 rupees.
-I checked the Deku Tree, and there are no money chests. Cry

-I can guarantee you 25 rupees from Kokiri Forest, and at least 12 when descending the river.
-We could maybe enter and exit Kokiri shop and grab the respawning blue rupee x number of times... but the rupee near the zora shop might be faster.
-I would really like to be able to have 40 rupees before even entering the fishing pond... maybe impossible, but it would be best.
-There is a hole in Hyrule field right near the entreance to lake hylia. In that hole is a chest with 5 rupees.

Edit: Some more things:

-I will skip the fish.
-I will re-enter Jabu-Jabu once I've completed it and end the segment.
-I will grab the zora's domain heart piece after jabu-jabu.

I really appreciate your support in this. Wink

Amazing Ampharos

2006-06-08 08:01:57 pm

Ok, several key notes. I thought the fish was useful for some switch trick in JJ so I put him into the route, but if he's not I guess this both simplifies and complicates things. Ok, I wonder, can you catch 2 fish and get 2 prizes off the same payment? It might be possible to only pay 20 rupees for fishing. Then again, for obvious reasons, I spent the absolutely minimum time on that fishing minigame so I wouldn't know. I just have a memory of testing to see if you can still get the heart piece after prize upgrade and affirming you can.

I could have sworn there was a 5 rupee chest in GDT right next to the torch you light with a switch. Was that a restoration heart as I remember clearly it was a useless item, and usually useless item means blue rupee?

Hmm, I'll assume the worst insofar as we're going to have to make up 40 rupees too. Well, extended rupee route gives us 25, and I think time wasting slashing bushes to aid in speeding up the coming of night and random rupees from GDT(you know there will be some) will let us afford fishing when we get there. The only problem is that will pretty much totally drain us. We then get 40 from diving, and I'll assume 7 from the bottom of lake hylia(the 5 and a few 1's nearby we can swerve to get; this might be able to be 8 or 9). So we're at 47. If we need to time waste some more we can slash more bushes after diving which could put us as high as about 53. We then enter Zora's Domain and head straight to JJ's belly. The question is how many random rupees can we get there. Odds are we'll get a few but not many as speed running doesn't really stop to smell the roses so to speak, and JJ is pretty stingy with rupees if I recall correctly. We can probably easily count on 3 though which means 50 leaving Jabu Jabu's belly. We have 12 assured going down the river so that's 62. That means we need 37 more. That's entering and exiting the shop 5 times(since 6 are already there before we think about abusing) plus a single rupee from anywhere(either more from diving at lake hylia, random luck, or 2 from the rocks). It also might be profitably to swing by those pots on the way up to King Zora and break them anyway; I don't know if that's faster than a cycle of entering and exiting the shop.

Yeah, how many random rupees can be gotten in the two dungeons and how much extra time we have to kill are two factors. If we end in the early morning, we'd want to slash a lot of bushes in lake hylia to kill most of a day, and, while ultimately slower than the zora's shop thing, that would give us a bit of extra money going into this whole buisiness. The 5 rupees in the Kokiri shop can be abused; I think it's slower due to more walking with equal numbers of screen transitions and that it's only 5 rupees instead of 6, but we can use it if we won't have 40 when we get to fishing.

The hole next to Hyrule Field won't be worth it at all. A zora shop entry and exit will be faster; I can almost promise it.

Ok, I'll mull it over for a while. This is quite the thorn for something so simple, and it's ironic that later in the game we have basically infinite money from the bunny hood(great as adult link doesn't have to worry about the large sums he spends at Gerudo Fortress). Seriously, I'm starting to miss Zelda 1.

Let's play a money making game!

Ok, several key notes.  I thought the fish was useful for some switch trick in JJ so I put him into the route, but if he's not I guess this both simplifies and complicates things.  Ok, I wonder, can you catch 2 fish and get 2 prizes off the same payment?  It might be possible to only pay 20 rupees for fishing.  Then again, for obvious reasons, I spent the absolutely minimum time on that fishing minigame so I wouldn't know.  I just have a memory of testing to see if you can still get the heart piece after prize upgrade and affirming you can.

I could have sworn there was a 5 rupee chest in GDT right next to the torch you light with a switch.  Was that a restoration heart as I remember clearly it was a useless item, and usually useless item means blue rupee?

Hmm, I'll assume the worst insofar as we're going to have to make up 40 rupees too.  Well, extended rupee route gives us 25, and I think time wasting slashing bushes to aid in speeding up the coming of night and random rupees from GDT(you know there will be some) will let us afford fishing when we get there.  The only problem is that will pretty much totally drain us.  We then get 40 from diving, and I'll assume 7 from the bottom of lake hylia(the 5 and a few 1's nearby we can swerve to get; this might be able to be 8 or 9).  So we're at 47.   If we need to time waste some more we can slash more bushes after diving which could put us as high as about 53. We then enter Zora's Domain and head straight to JJ's belly.  The question is how many random rupees can we get there.  Odds are we'll get a few but not many as speed running doesn't really stop to smell the roses so to speak, and JJ is pretty stingy with rupees if I recall correctly.  We can probably easily count on 3 though which means 50 leaving Jabu Jabu's belly.  We have 12 assured going down the river so that's 62.  That means we need 37 more.  That's entering and exiting the shop 5 times(since 6 are already there before we think about abusing) plus a single rupee from anywhere(either more from diving at lake hylia, random luck, or 2 from the rocks).  It also might be profitably to swing by those pots on the way up to King Zora and break them anyway; I don't know if that's faster than a cycle of entering and exiting the shop.

Yeah, how many random rupees can be gotten in the two dungeons and how much extra time we have to kill are two factors.  If we end in the early morning, we'd want to slash a lot of bushes in lake hylia to kill most of a day, and, while ultimately slower than the zora's shop thing, that would give us a bit of extra money going into this whole buisiness.  The 5 rupees in the Kokiri shop can be abused; I think it's slower due to more walking with equal numbers of screen transitions and that it's only 5 rupees instead of 6, but we can use it if we won't have 40 when we get to fishing.

The hole next to Hyrule Field won't be worth it at all.  A zora shop entry and exit will be faster; I can almost promise it.

Ok, I'll mull it over for a while.  This is quite the thorn for something so simple, and it's ironic that later in the game we have basically infinite money from the bunny hood(great as adult link doesn't have to worry about the large sums he spends at Gerudo Fortress).  Seriously, I'm starting to miss Zelda 1.

Let's play a money making game!

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-08 08:21:53 pm

2006-06-08 08:21:21 pm

Speed is the key.

We should get the blue rupee from the pot outside the zora shop the first time we're in Zora's Domain.

In Lake Hylia, I would like to enter the fishing pond during the day if possible, since then I'll probably catch a 10 pounder. Then go in there the next time at night, since then it's easier to catch a 11 pounder.

I'll be catching the same fish twice (the one by the log). Sometimes it weighs 10 pounds, sometimes 11.

AKA

2006-06-08 08:49:47 pm

He's back!

Acording to Radix definition the medalions and the megaton hammer don't count as part of a 100%, are they allowed to be skipped, or is that been auto corrected.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-08 10:14:33 pm

2006-06-08 09:22:40 pm

Speed is the key.

They count.

Edit: w00t. There are three red rupees in the bottom of the pool in the lab, that's an easy 60.

petrie911

2006-06-09 01:45:55 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Plus you have to go there anyway for a Heart piece...

Also, I have a few questions about Prize Upgrade. Would prize upgrade allow you to get a heart piece instead of a red rupee if you catch a smaller fish? Would it allow you to get the heart piece instead of the Golden scale if you did it as an adult? Or won't it do either?

whacko_jacko

2006-06-09 01:56:18 am

I thought there were 1 or 2 red rupees in pots in JJ in the room where you hit that switch on the ceiling with the boomerang with all the jellyfish.

Manocheese

2006-06-09 02:06:33 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Four beans? You only need three. You can get on top of the house in Lake Hylia without the bean. Just use the hookshot/longshot with the Scarecrow's Song.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-06-09 06:59:45 am

If we only need 3 beans, this just got really easy. Especially since those 40 rupees are actually 60 rupees. I guess I must have grabbed one the first time I was down there and didn't realize it. That makes this whole ordeal so much easier it isn't even funny... That's 3 entries and exits from the shop gone, and even then we get 2 more rupees.

You will probably get the the fishing pond around nightfall of the first day. I don't really think you can get there in mid-day; it's just too much distance to travel. Of course you can skip setting the scarecrow's song until you go for those 60 rupees so that saves a little time in terms of day/night passing, but it's still a tough one. I hope you backwalk perfectly as you'll pretty much have to for that plan. Of course, if you finish fishing early in the first night(like 1/3 through it), it's very conceivable that you'll be in Zora's Domain with the boomerang late in the first night and be able to use the rest of the night to get all the Skulltullas you need.

Those 20 rupees help so much. If we in fact only need 3 beans(which by the way should be listed which 3/4 as I have no idea other than the one at the graveyard being one of them and the one by Dodongo's Cavern not being one of them), we'll not have to worry about getting any extra rupees as the 60 from the bottom of the diving pay for 3 beans by themselves. Unfortunatly, extended rupee route probably has to stay to pay for fishing, but such is life. Then we can focus on the rest of this route and see if the stuff I left out messes with the route any.

If we only need 3 beans, this just got really easy.  Especially since those 40 rupees are actually 60 rupees.  I guess I must have grabbed one the first time I was down there and didn't realize it.  That makes this whole ordeal so much easier it isn't even funny...  That's 3 entries and exits from the shop gone, and even then we get 2 more rupees.

You will probably get the the fishing pond around nightfall of the first day.  I don't really think you can get there in mid-day; it's just too much distance to travel.  Of course you can skip setting the scarecrow's song until you go for those 60 rupees so that saves a little time in terms of day/night passing, but it's still a tough one.  I hope you backwalk perfectly as you'll pretty much have to for that plan.  Of course, if you finish fishing early in the first night(like 1/3 through it), it's very conceivable that you'll be in Zora's Domain with the boomerang late in the first night and be able to use the rest of the night to get all the Skulltullas you need.

Those 20 rupees help so much.  If we in fact only need 3 beans(which by the way should be listed which 3/4 as I have no idea other than the one at the graveyard being one of them and the one by Dodongo's Cavern not being one of them), we'll not have to worry about getting any extra rupees as the 60 from the bottom of the diving pay for 3 beans by themselves.  Unfortunatly, extended rupee route probably has to stay to pay for fishing, but such is life.  Then we can focus on the rest of this route and see if the stuff I left out messes with the route any.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-09 08:19:20 am

2006-06-09 08:18:17 am

Speed is the key.

Good job Manocheese. You're all helping out. Cheesy

I dunno... Maybe it's just better to get the heart piece on the second trip to lake hylia. If we have Sun's Song by then, it will be a piece if cake. I mean... if it proves to be impossible to get in there before nightfall. Now I just hope that I'll be able to catch a 10 pounder at night.

Also, I wont have to collect 40 rupees on my way there. >_<

Amazing Ampharos

Edit history:

Amazing Ampharos: 2006-06-09 09:46:46 am

2006-06-09 09:17:41 am

Hmm, if you do it on the second trip, you would have to do it after getting the skulltulla from the dirt but before the one behind the house/the owlwarp(that's a slower owlwarp than the one on top of Death Mountain by the way, but I think it's still faster to the market than either walking there or making that trip after a savewarp). It requires you to go back and forth from basically the front door of the house; it's some time loss, but it probably won't be that much(and money won't be an issue since the 12 from drifting down the river alone are guaranteed with no time loss, and getting 8 random rupees during the rest of the time is literally a non-issue). The only question is how long does getting that extra 20 rupees take? I bet that in the end the timing will be close on the two so it's pretty interesting.

Hmm, a third option money wise is to get the Gold Scale, go and get the 60 rupees/piece of heart, and then go back and do the fishing piece of heart right then. It removes a bit of walking from the route while removing the need to have 20 of those rupees before you go to the fishing game.

However, I think I know in the end exactly what issue it will come down to. What time of day are you looking at? If doing the piece of heart earlier makes it so you get into Zora's Domain after Jabu Jabu either in the day or so late into the night that you won't be able to take care of Zora's River, you should put off the piece of heart. However, if you are ending in the day without doing it, getting that piece of heart earlier rather than later will almost undoubtedly be the wiser path. This is actually a good thing as rather than relying on dumb luck and looking to find a good way to kill time in the event of misfortune, we now have a good way to fine tune the time of day issue. And since that's the only place time of day matters before we get the sun's song, we've basically given ourselves some freedom from the MM problem of making events take certain amounts of time to chain them together within the time structure.

Also, since luck on the river has pretty much become a non-issue, you probably shouldn't run back into Jabu Jabu to end a segment as the following segment is a bunch of nothing(unless you really fear screwing up the mundane tasks of Zora's Domain and Zora's River) and you're adding the walk from wherever you get out of the water to the mouth of Jabu Jabu twice as well as the screen transition both in and out of Jabu Jabu. It's not a lot of time, but I think you'd have to make multiple mistakes on that short and easy segment to add more time than you do by simply making it its own segment. All those high end Jabu Jabu tricks probably won't be as important in a 100% either as we have to get the Skulltullas so the JJ segment itself will actually probably be both easier and longer than the any% one. Actually, the potential boon of a 100% is that it can save you from having to do a few dungeon sequence breaks as you have to get the skulltullas either way, and they tend to be pretty spread out. I know it seems wrong to be rooting that high end speed tricks don't save time, but them not working means the run can be closer to ideal as human error will be smaller.

So yeah, if we can get time of day concerns worked out for the Lake Hylia trip 1 and post-JJ's belly, I think we will have finished ironing out that little section of the child link section. There are a lot of other issues to worry about there as well(such as getting din's fire earlier or later: I.E. how much time do the hoverboots save in the places we do as adult link before the first savewarp after the forest temple and such as those misc. Skulltullas I ignored and the 2nd Deku Nut upgrade and what about that 2nd trip to the Deku Tree I blew off as it has an inconsequential placement). I think we're getting a good route down which is important as this game has over 200 things we have to collect. Well, I'll see if anything new's been figured out by tommorrow. It will be cool when we have a nice, final kid link route to post that actually accounts for every detail.

Edit: I just watched those videos in your sig, and I think Shadow Early without Din's Fire looks pretty good. Unless that takes more time than the trip to and from the rock with Din's Fire, I think this is an affirmation we can put that off until Kid Link II. I don't think spell diving is needed at all as a kid, and odds are adult's getting Iron Boots pretty early so that shouldn't be a problem either. And we have Din's Fire by the time we do Water Temple anyway so we can light any torches we need to with it.

Hmm, if you do it on the second trip, you would have to do it after getting the skulltulla from the dirt but before the one behind the house/the owlwarp(that's a slower owlwarp than the one on top of Death Mountain by the way, but I think it's still faster to the market than either walking there or making that trip after a savewarp).  It requires you to go back and forth from basically the front door of the house; it's some time loss, but it probably won't be that much(and money won't be an issue since the 12 from drifting down the river alone are guaranteed with no time loss, and getting 8 random rupees during the rest of the time is literally a non-issue).  The only question is how long does getting that extra 20 rupees take?  I bet that in the end the timing will be close on the two so it's pretty interesting.

Hmm,  a third option money wise is to get the Gold Scale, go and get the 60 rupees/piece of heart, and then go back and do the fishing piece of heart right then.  It removes a bit of walking from the route while removing the need to have 20 of those rupees before you go to the fishing game.

However, I think I know in the end exactly what issue it will come down to.  What time of day are you looking at?  If doing the piece of heart earlier makes it so you get into Zora's Domain after Jabu Jabu either in the day or so late into the night that you won't be able to take care of Zora's River, you should put off the piece of heart.  However, if you are ending in the day without doing it, getting that piece of heart earlier rather than later will almost undoubtedly be the wiser path.  This is actually a good thing as rather than relying on dumb luck and looking to find a good way to kill time in the event of misfortune, we now have a good way to fine tune the time of day issue.  And since that's the only place time of day matters before we get the sun's song, we've basically given ourselves some freedom from the MM problem of making events take certain amounts of time to chain them together within the time structure.

Also, since luck on the river has pretty much become a non-issue, you probably shouldn't run back into Jabu Jabu to end a segment as the following segment is a bunch of nothing(unless you really fear screwing up the mundane tasks of Zora's Domain and Zora's River) and you're adding the walk from wherever you get out of the water to the mouth of Jabu Jabu twice as well as the screen transition both in and out of Jabu Jabu.  It's not a lot of time, but I think you'd have to make multiple mistakes on that short and easy segment to add more time than you do by simply making it its own segment.  All those high end Jabu Jabu tricks probably won't be as important in a 100% either as we have to get the Skulltullas so the JJ segment itself will actually probably be both easier and longer than the any% one.  Actually, the potential boon of a 100% is that it can save you from having to do a few dungeon sequence breaks as you have to get the skulltullas either way, and they tend to be pretty spread out.  I know it seems wrong to be rooting that high end speed tricks don't save time, but them not working means the run can be closer to ideal as human error will be smaller.

So yeah, if we can get time of day concerns worked out for the Lake Hylia trip 1 and post-JJ's belly, I think we will have finished ironing out that little section of the child link section.  There are a lot of other issues to worry about there as well(such as getting din's fire earlier or later: I.E. how much time do the hoverboots save in the places we do as adult link before the first savewarp after the forest temple and such as those misc. Skulltullas I ignored and the 2nd Deku Nut upgrade and what about that 2nd trip to the Deku Tree I blew off as it has an inconsequential placement).  I think we're getting a good route down which is important as this game has over 200 things we have to collect.  Well, I'll see if anything new's been figured out by tommorrow.  It will be cool when we have a nice, final kid link route to post that actually accounts for every detail.

Edit: I just watched those videos in your sig, and I think Shadow Early without Din's Fire looks pretty good.  Unless that takes more time than the trip to and from the rock with Din's Fire, I think this is an affirmation we can put that off until Kid Link II.  I don't think spell diving is needed at all as a kid, and odds are adult's getting Iron Boots pretty early so that shouldn't be a problem either.  And we have Din's Fire by the time we do Water Temple anyway so we can light any torches we need to with it.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-09 10:19:10 am

2006-06-09 10:18:06 am

Speed is the key.

I've found another big problem. I finished Jabu-Jabu just now, and it's always morning when you complete Jabu-Jabu. Time does NOT pass in Zora's Fountain. This is bad. My original thought was to get the skulltula in the tree, then swim over to the log and perhaps wait a few seconds for nightfall. Now this wont work, we wont be able to get the second skulltula in Zora's Fountain. :-/

Also, there are some more things that you should know:

-There are 3 child skulltulas in Lake Hylia. One on the back of the lab, one in the bean soil and one on the small island the fire arrows appear on (only appear at night).

-There is one skulltula in the crate in the pool in the lab. This means that we'll still have to go down there as an adult, with Iron boots or bombchus and hookshot/longshot.

I really hope we can get this to work somehow.

Mad_Andy

2006-06-09 11:44:52 am

Isn't there a way to tweak the route so that you get the sun's song as soon as possible?

YautjaElder

2006-06-09 12:14:36 pm

Speed is the key.

That means two trips to the Graveyard... but that might still be faster.

Amazing Ampharos

Edit history:

Amazing Ampharos: 2006-06-10 07:24:28 am

2006-06-09 10:29:21 pm

Here's a simple question. Are any of the Skulltullas in Zora's Domain/Zora's River forced as a child? If we could put it off and get them as an adult with the Hookshot when we do Ice Cavern, that might work. We also have the trip to the frogs we do in Kid Link II. Hmm, I am looking at a Gold Skulltulla list and see a few problems. Kid Link II could just go and get them and will by the end of it be close enough to Faeroe's Wind to get that too with probably slightly less time loss than getting it as an adult, but man that's a time loss. Well, here's the issue. If we don't have the Sun's Song when we do Jabu Jabu we can't get this stuff without a second trip. If we go to get the Sun's Song before Jabu Jabu, we won't have the Boomerang and will have to make a whole trip to Kakariko without the Boomerang which restricts us a lot. We are forced to make another trip into Dodongo's Cavern if we don't have the boomerang, and there are Skulltullas on Death Mountain that require the boomerang so that trip to Kakariko couldn't really take advantage of the proximity to Death Mountain. If we don't do market before that, we can't do anything in terms of progressing the happy mask sidequest.

If that Skulltulla on the island with the fire arrows only appears as a child, we'll just have to swim out there and get it before owlwarping. If not we would obviously get it as an adult.

The Skulltulla in the lab could be gotten as an adult when we do the biggoron sword trading sequence with minimal time loss. King Zora had to be defrosted anyway so we'll have Iron Boots by then.

It seems we alternate daily between great triumph and bad news.

Ok, here are what I see as our options to deal with this:

Option A: We can put off the nighttime Zora's Domain stuff until Kid Link II as he has to come near here anyway. We choose as our method of avoiding the owl to do the warp in from the lost woods as opposed to a ground jump. We enter Zora's Domain/Fountain and get all the Skulltullas there we couldn't get earlier as well as Faeroe's Wind. We then decend the river and get everything else we couldn't get earlier as well as the frog buisiness we were there for in the first place.

Option B: We have the Sun's Song before Jabu Jabu. A trip to Kakariko before the Market is completely wasted so our first action after exiting the forest is to backwalk to the Market and do the beginning of game sequence there. We then go to Kakariko and get the Sun's Song as well as use Zelda's Letter so we can begin the Happy Mask sidequest. We can't do much in the graveyard at this point, but we will want to consolidate everything else in the graveyard into one trip(bean planting, Skulltulla, spooky mask sale, dampe's HORRIBLE gravedigging tour). We savewarp after getting the Sun's Song and then progress along the route as per normal except when we normally did the market trip for Zelda's letter we do it for the Keaton Mask and when we return to Kakariko we drop that mask off. As I think about it, this is probably a more time efficient route overall.

Ok, I'm going to repost my route modified for option B. If option A is somehow faster(it sure sounds slower), it can be changed. I'm also going to include Gold Skulltullas numbered as the Gamefaqs guide does.

Segment 1:

Kokiri Sword
Partially Extended Rupee Route: 60 Rupees minus whatever randoms we can count on in GDT and whatever over 20 we get from the rupee room
Deku Shield
Get Deku Sticks from enemies on path to GDT
Enter Great Deku Tree -> Save

Segment 2:

Great Deku Tree(Slingshot, gs9, Heart Container, Kokiri Emerald)
Savewarp after getting Kokiri Emerald

Segment 3:

Exit Forest(Fairy Ocerina)
Backwalk to Market
Enter Rupee Room(gs18, rupees)
Guard Evasion sequence(Zelda's Letter, Zelda's Lullaby, Talon returns to ranch)
Backwalk to Kakariko
Cucoo gathering minigame/show Zelda's letter(Bottle, activate Happy Mask Sidequest)
Get bugs in bottle at graveyard
*optional now/later Hylian Shield*
Get Sun's Song
Savewarp

Segment 4:

Backwalk to Lake Hylia
Talk to Scarecrows/set scarecrow's song
Fishing Minigame(Gold Scale/Heart Piece)
Diving in house(60 rupees, Piece of Heart)
Letter in a Bottle
Warp to Zora's Domain
Show Letter to King Zora(Bottle)
Enter Jabu Jabu without a fish
Save and quit

Segment 5:

Jabu Jabu's Belly(Boomerang, gs56, g57, gs58, gs59, Heart Container, Zora's Sapphire)
Play Sun's Song
Zora's Fountain Gold Skulltullas(gs48, gs49)
Decend Zora's River(gs44, Piece of Heart near entrance, Piece of Hear near frogs, 3X Magic Beans)^
Savewarp

Segment 6:

Backwalk to Gerudo Valley, avoid owl
If night(gs61); if not, don't bother playing the sun's song
Use a cucoo to cross the fence into Gerudo Fortress(PoH 37 if you feel like it)
Goto and cross Haunted Wasteland(gs92)
Desert Collossus(gs93, plant bean)
Enter and exit Spirit Temple(Requirum of Spirit)
Enter Spirit Temple and save and quit

Segment 7:

Child Spirit(gs96, gs97, gs98, Bombchus, Silver Gauntlets)
Savewarp

Segment 8:

Backwalk to Gerudo Valley; make sure it's night
Gerudo Valley; jump down into river(gs60, gs61 if not gotten earlier, piece of heart atop waterfall, piece of heart in crate)
Decend river
Lake Hylia Skulltullas(gs51, gs52, gs53)
Owlwarp to Market
Happy Mask Sidequest(Keaton Mask)
Backwalk to Kakariko
Sell Keaton Mask to guard
Enter Death Mountain
Blow up wall on trail with a bombchu(gs31)
Blow open Dodongo's Cavern with a bombchu, use bugs on dirt pile(gs30)
Enter Dodongo's Cavern and save and quit

Segment 9:

Dodongo's Cavern(bomb bag, gs40, Heart Container, Goron's Ruby)
Backwalk to Goron City
Goron City collection time(piece of heart in spinning pot, gs34, bomb bag expansion)
Ascend Death Mountain(Magic Meter, gs36)
Owlwarp
Piece of heart on ledge connected to building(piece of heart)
Backwalk back to market(Skull Mask)
Enter Hyrule Castle Area(gs19, Din's Fire)
Savewarp

Segment 10:

Goto Great Deku Tree and stop by pile of dirt(gs2)
Great Deku Tree II(gs8, gs10, gs11)
Savewarp to entrance of tree

Segment 11:

Exit tree
Savewarp

Segment 12:

Kokiri Forest Skulltulla(gs1)
Enter Lost woods
Go through lost woods to Sacred Forest Meadow making several pit stops(slingshot capacity upgrade, Piece of Heart from playing with Ocerina below slingshot upgrade, Deku Stick upgrade from Deku Theater, other deku nut upgrade too, gs5, plant bean)
Go over Sacred Forest Meadow(Saria's Song)
Savewarp

Segment 13:

Enter Lost Woods
Go left and play Saria's Song to Skull kid and then sell Skull mask(piece of heart)
Goto bridge area from side(gs4, Deku Stick capacity upgrade)
Damage boost onto bridge
Backwalk to Market(Ocerina of Time cutscene)
Enter Market and get Spooky Mask(Spooky Mask)
Exit Market(Ocerina of Time, Song of Time)
Goto Kakariko Villiage(gs12)
Goto House of Skulltulla(Giant's Wallet, Stone of Agony)
Kakariko at night(gs22, gs23, gs24, gs25, gs26)
Bottom of the Well early via cucoo dive
Save and quit

Segment 14:

Bottom of the Well(gs82, gs83, gs84, Lens of Truth)
Savewarp to entrance of well

Segment 15:

Exit well and goto Graveyard
Graveyard buisiness(gs28, gs29, plant bean, piece of heart from Dampe's gravedigging tour, optional time for Hylian Shield, piece of heart in grave, play sun's song, sell spooky mask)
Backwalk to Market(Bunny Hood)
Backwalk to Lon Lon Ranch(gs14, gs15, gs16, gs17, Epona's Song, Bottle, Piece of Heart hidden in building)
Sell Bunny Hood
Return to Market(Mask of Truth)
Savewarp

Segment 16:

Goto Deku Theater(Deku Nut capacity upgrade)
Savewarp

Segment 17:

Backwalk to Market
Market Minigames(slingshot capacity upgrade, piece of heart from bombchu bowling, bomb bag capacity upgrade, piece of heart from treasure chest game)
Return the lady's dog(Piece of Heart)
Backwalk to temple of time and become an adult(Master Sword)

^ Piece of Heart near frogs may be faster during Kid Link II on our way to the frogs

Ok, whew, I think this is pretty comprehensive. I took the route past every pile of dirt except the one in death mountain crater that has to be put off until Kid Link II. Din's Fire is gotten earlier rather than later as we need the Bolero of Fire for Kid Link II, and having Din's Fire now lets us be a lot more flexible in the adult link route as Kid Link II can now be done as late as we want since it's just pieces of heart and skulltullas.

Kid Link II:

Exit Temple of Time and goto Hyrule Castle(gs20)
Play Prelude of Light
Goto Zora's River and avoid owl with groundjump(gs 43, 2 pieces of heart from frogs, possible piece of heart near frogs with cucoo)
Play Bolero of Fire, pile of dirt(gs37; release bugs for good)
Play Prelude of Light
Return to being an adult

Ok, this has been a really long post. I hope it's been helpful, and if there are no snags I hope we can proceed to the adult link route planning. Adult Link gets Faeroe's Wind, Nayru's Love, gs55, the two pieces of heart in death mountain crater, the piece of heart above Dodongo's Cavern, and the piece of heart in the windmill if you were wondering about that. He can also get the Hylian Shield if you don't want to get it as a kid for some reason even though you're right in the general area a few times. 46 Gold Skulltullas as a kid the first time.

Here's a simple question.  Are any of the Skulltullas in Zora's Domain/Zora's River forced as a child?  If we could put it off and get them as an adult with the Hookshot when we do Ice Cavern, that might work.  We also have the trip to the frogs we do in Kid Link II.  Hmm, I am looking at a Gold Skulltulla list and see a few problems.  Kid Link II could just go and get them and will by the end of it be close enough to Faeroe's Wind to get that too with probably slightly less time loss than getting it as an adult, but man that's a time loss.  Well, here's the issue.  If we don't have the Sun's Song when we do Jabu Jabu we can't get this stuff without a second trip.  If we go to get the Sun's Song before Jabu Jabu, we won't have the Boomerang and will have to make a whole trip to Kakariko without the Boomerang which restricts us a lot.  We are forced to make another trip into Dodongo's Cavern if we don't have the boomerang, and there are Skulltullas on Death Mountain that require the boomerang so that trip to Kakariko couldn't really take advantage of the proximity to Death Mountain.  If we don't do market before that, we can't do anything in terms of progressing the happy mask sidequest.

If that Skulltulla on the island with the fire arrows only appears as a child, we'll just have to swim out there and get it before owlwarping.  If not we would obviously get it as an adult.

The Skulltulla in the lab could be gotten as an adult when we do the biggoron sword trading sequence with minimal time loss.  King  Zora had to be defrosted anyway so we'll have Iron Boots by then.

It seems we alternate daily between great triumph and bad news.

Ok, here are what I see as our options to deal with this:

Option A:  We can put off the nighttime Zora's Domain stuff until Kid Link II as he has to come near here anyway.  We choose as our method of avoiding the owl to do the warp in from the lost woods as opposed to a ground jump.  We enter Zora's Domain/Fountain and get all the Skulltullas there we couldn't get earlier as well as Faeroe's Wind.  We then decend the river and get everything else we couldn't get earlier as well as the frog buisiness we were there for in the first place.

Option B: We have the Sun's Song before Jabu Jabu.  A trip to Kakariko before the Market is completely wasted so our first action after exiting the forest is to backwalk to the Market and do the beginning of game sequence there.  We then go to Kakariko and get the Sun's Song as well as use Zelda's Letter so we can begin the Happy Mask sidequest.  We can't do much in the graveyard at this point, but we will want to consolidate everything else in the graveyard into one trip(bean planting, Skulltulla, spooky mask sale, dampe's HORRIBLE gravedigging tour).  We savewarp after getting the Sun's Song and then progress along the route as per normal except when we normally did the market trip for Zelda's letter we do it for the Keaton Mask and when we return to Kakariko we drop that mask off.  As I think about it, this is probably a more time efficient route overall.

Ok, I'm going to repost my route modified for option B.  If option A is somehow faster(it sure sounds slower), it can be changed.  I'm also going to include Gold Skulltullas numbered as the Gamefaqs guide does.

Segment 1:

Kokiri Sword
Partially Extended Rupee Route: 60 Rupees minus whatever randoms we can count on in GDT and whatever over 20 we get from the rupee room
Deku Shield
Get Deku Sticks from enemies on path to GDT
Enter Great Deku Tree -> Save

Segment 2:

Great Deku Tree(Slingshot, gs9, Heart Container, Kokiri Emerald)
Savewarp after getting Kokiri Emerald

Segment 3:

Exit Forest(Fairy Ocerina)
Backwalk to Market
Enter Rupee Room(gs18, rupees)
Guard Evasion sequence(Zelda's Letter, Zelda's Lullaby, Talon returns to ranch)
Backwalk to Kakariko
Cucoo gathering minigame/show Zelda's letter(Bottle, activate Happy Mask Sidequest)
Get bugs in bottle at graveyard
*optional now/later Hylian Shield*
Get Sun's Song
Savewarp

Segment 4:

Backwalk to Lake Hylia
Talk to Scarecrows/set scarecrow's song
Fishing Minigame(Gold Scale/Heart Piece)
Diving in house(60 rupees, Piece of Heart)
Letter in a Bottle
Warp to Zora's Domain
Show Letter to King Zora(Bottle)
Enter Jabu Jabu without a fish
Save and quit

Segment 5:

Jabu Jabu's Belly(Boomerang, gs56, g57, gs58, gs59, Heart Container, Zora's Sapphire)
Play Sun's Song
Zora's Fountain Gold Skulltullas(gs48, gs49)
Decend Zora's River(gs44, Piece of Heart near entrance, Piece of Hear near frogs, 3X Magic Beans)^
Savewarp

Segment 6:

Backwalk to Gerudo Valley, avoid owl
If night(gs61); if not, don't bother playing the sun's song
Use a cucoo to cross the fence into Gerudo Fortress(PoH 37 if you feel like it)
Goto and cross Haunted Wasteland(gs92)
Desert Collossus(gs93, plant bean)
Enter and exit Spirit Temple(Requirum of Spirit)
Enter Spirit Temple and save and quit

Segment 7:

Child Spirit(gs96, gs97, gs98, Bombchus, Silver Gauntlets)
Savewarp

Segment 8:

Backwalk to Gerudo Valley; make sure it's night
Gerudo Valley; jump down into river(gs60, gs61 if not gotten earlier, piece of heart atop waterfall, piece of heart in crate)
Decend river
Lake Hylia Skulltullas(gs51, gs52, gs53)
Owlwarp to Market
Happy Mask Sidequest(Keaton Mask)
Backwalk to Kakariko
Sell Keaton Mask to guard
Enter Death Mountain
Blow up wall on trail with a bombchu(gs31)
Blow open Dodongo's Cavern with a bombchu, use bugs on dirt pile(gs30)
Enter Dodongo's Cavern and save and quit

Segment 9:

Dodongo's Cavern(bomb bag, gs40, Heart Container, Goron's Ruby)
Backwalk to Goron City
Goron City collection time(piece of heart in spinning pot, gs34, bomb bag expansion)
Ascend Death Mountain(Magic Meter, gs36)
Owlwarp
Piece of heart on ledge connected to building(piece of heart)
Backwalk back to market(Skull Mask)
Enter Hyrule Castle Area(gs19, Din's Fire)
Savewarp

Segment 10:

Goto Great Deku Tree and stop by pile of dirt(gs2)
Great Deku Tree II(gs8, gs10, gs11)
Savewarp to entrance of tree

Segment 11:

Exit tree
Savewarp

Segment 12:

Kokiri Forest Skulltulla(gs1)
Enter Lost woods
Go through lost woods to Sacred Forest Meadow making several pit stops(slingshot capacity upgrade, Piece of Heart from playing with Ocerina below slingshot upgrade, Deku Stick upgrade from Deku Theater, other deku nut upgrade too, gs5, plant bean)
Go over Sacred Forest Meadow(Saria's Song)
Savewarp

Segment 13:

Enter Lost Woods
Go left and play Saria's Song to Skull kid and then sell Skull mask(piece of heart)
Goto bridge area from side(gs4, Deku Stick capacity upgrade)
Damage boost onto bridge
Backwalk to Market(Ocerina of Time cutscene)
Enter Market and get Spooky Mask(Spooky Mask)
Exit Market(Ocerina of Time, Song of Time)
Goto Kakariko Villiage(gs12)
Goto House of Skulltulla(Giant's Wallet, Stone of Agony)
Kakariko at night(gs22, gs23, gs24, gs25, gs26)
Bottom of the Well early via cucoo dive
Save and quit

Segment 14:

Bottom of the Well(gs82, gs83, gs84, Lens of Truth)
Savewarp to entrance of well

Segment 15:

Exit well and goto Graveyard
Graveyard buisiness(gs28, gs29, plant bean, piece of heart from Dampe's gravedigging tour, optional time for Hylian Shield, piece of heart in grave, play sun's song, sell spooky mask)
Backwalk to Market(Bunny Hood)
Backwalk to Lon Lon Ranch(gs14, gs15, gs16, gs17, Epona's Song, Bottle, Piece of Heart hidden in building)
Sell Bunny Hood
Return to Market(Mask of Truth)
Savewarp

Segment 16:

Goto Deku Theater(Deku Nut capacity upgrade)
Savewarp

Segment 17:

Backwalk to Market
Market Minigames(slingshot capacity upgrade, piece of heart from bombchu bowling, bomb bag capacity upgrade, piece of heart from treasure chest game)
Return the lady's dog(Piece of Heart)
Backwalk to temple of time and become an adult(Master Sword)

^ Piece of Heart near frogs may be faster during Kid Link II on our way to the frogs

Ok, whew, I think this is pretty comprehensive.  I took the route past every pile of dirt except the one in death mountain crater that has to be put off until Kid Link II.  Din's Fire is gotten earlier rather than later as we need the Bolero of Fire for Kid Link II, and having Din's Fire now lets us be a lot more flexible in the adult link route as Kid Link II can now be done as late as we want since it's just pieces of heart and skulltullas.

Kid Link II:

Exit Temple of Time and goto Hyrule Castle(gs20)
Play Prelude of Light
Goto Zora's River and avoid owl with groundjump(gs 43, 2 pieces of heart from frogs, possible piece of heart near frogs with cucoo)
Play Bolero of Fire, pile of dirt(gs37; release bugs for good)
Play Prelude of Light
Return to being an adult

Ok, this has been a really long post.  I hope it's been helpful, and if there are no snags I hope we can proceed to the adult link route planning.  Adult Link gets Faeroe's Wind, Nayru's Love, gs55, the two pieces of heart in death mountain crater, the piece of heart above Dodongo's Cavern, and the piece of heart in the windmill if you were wondering about that.  He can also get the Hylian Shield if you don't want to get it as a kid for some reason even though you're right in the general area a few times.  46 Gold Skulltullas as a kid the first time.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2007-07-18 06:14:42 pm

2006-06-09 11:25:21 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

Great Deku Tree(Slingshot, gs8, gs9, gs10, Heart Container, Kokiri Emerald)

I will only get one skulltula on my first trip to the Deku Tree. The other two will be gotten with the boomerang.

Quote:

Guard Evasion sequence(Zelda's Letter, Zelda's Lullaby, Talon returns to ranch)

Too bad I can't utilize the moat skip, which probably saves a minute. Oh well. Smiley

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Get bugs in bottle at graveyard

Where are those bugs, I don't remember any bugs in the graveyard. I could be wrong, of course.

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Decend Zora's River(gs44, Piece of Heart near entrance, Piece of Hear near frogs, 3X Magic Beans)

I would also get the skulltula in the tree in zora's river. Just so you know.

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Gerudo Valley; jump down into river(gs60, gs61 if not gotten earlier, piece of heart atop waterfall)

Here, I would also get the HP in the crate.

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Happy Mask Sidequest(Keaton Mask)

You can't borrow the Keaton Mask until you've completed Dodongo's cavern. :-/

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Dodongo's Cavern(bomb bag, gs38, gs39, gs40, gs41, Heart Container, Goron's Ruby)

I wont get all those skulltulas as a kid. I'll come back as an adult for three of them. It'll probably take 5 minutes extra to collect all those as a kid. Sad

Maybe you forgot about it, or maybe you intend me to get it as an adult, but what about the HP above the entreance to Dodongo's?

==========================

The beans'll go:

-Graveyard for shadow early
-Lost Woods for andult skulltula (maybe skipable)
-Desert Colossus for adult HP.

==========================

Quote:

I hope it's been helpful

Every word.

As always, I appreciate your help. Wink

[quote]Great Deku Tree(Slingshot, gs8, gs9, gs10, Heart Container, Kokiri Emerald)[/quote]
I will only get one skulltula on my first trip to the Deku Tree. The other two will be gotten with the boomerang.

[quote]Guard Evasion sequence(Zelda's Letter, Zelda's Lullaby, Talon returns to ranch)[/quote]
Too bad I can't utilize the moat skip, which probably saves a minute. Oh well. :)

[quote]Get bugs in bottle at graveyard[/quote]
Where are those bugs, I don't remember any bugs in the graveyard. I could be wrong, of course.

[quote]Decend Zora's River(gs44, Piece of Heart near entrance, Piece of Hear near frogs, 3X Magic Beans)[/quote]
I would also get the skulltula in the tree in zora's river. Just so you know.

[quote]Gerudo Valley; jump down into river(gs60, gs61 if not gotten earlier, piece of heart atop waterfall)[/quote]
Here, I would also get the HP in the crate.

[quote]Happy Mask Sidequest(Keaton Mask)[/quote]
You can't borrow the Keaton Mask until you've completed Dodongo's cavern. :-/

[quote]Dodongo's Cavern(bomb bag, gs38, gs39, gs40, gs41, Heart Container, Goron's Ruby)[/quote]
I wont get all those skulltulas as a kid. I'll come back as an adult for three of them. It'll probably take 5 minutes extra to collect all those as a kid. :(

Maybe you forgot about it, or maybe you intend me to get it as an adult, but what about the [b]HP above the entreance to Dodongo's?[/b]

==========================

The beans'll go:

-Graveyard for shadow early
-Lost Woods for andult skulltula (maybe skipable)
-Desert Colossus for adult HP.

==========================

[quote]I hope it's been helpful[/quote]
Every word.

As always, I appreciate your help. ;)

Amazing Ampharos

2006-06-09 11:41:05 pm

Ok about Skulltullas in GDT. It doesn't matter either way.

There's a rock near Dampe's house with bugs in it. It's the place I always got bugs whenever I played the game.

You should put off that skulltulla in the tree until you return during Kid Link II as you run right past it then but it requires a small trip now. Sorry, I forgot to mention it in Kid Link II.

That mask thing is bad buisiness. I always thought showing the letter was the flag to let you borrow the mask. Things will just have to be re-arranged so that you go and get/drop off the mask after the owlwarp down from the mountain. It sucks, but I think it's the fastest way.

I forgot the Heart Piece in the crate.

Ok about getting those Skulltullas in DC later, but I did not forget the Heart Piece above the entrance. It is going to be faster as an adult as the ledge you jump from has an adult only Skulltulla on it.

That's cool knowing about the beans.

Also, I did forget a Skulltulla on the route. Right when you go to the market, you should stop by the rupee room for gs18 as well as money to do the double fishing game at the start. Actually, this little trip ensures you can afford it ASAP.

I'll edit my route post to account for these details.

Ok about Skulltullas in GDT.  It doesn't matter either way.

There's a rock near Dampe's house with bugs in it.  It's the place I always got bugs whenever I played the game.

You should put off that skulltulla in the tree until you return during Kid Link II as you run right past it then but it requires a small trip now.  Sorry, I forgot to mention it in Kid Link II.

That mask thing is bad buisiness.  I always thought showing the letter was the flag to let you borrow the mask.  Things will just have to be re-arranged so that you go and get/drop off the mask after the owlwarp down from the mountain.  It sucks, but I think it's the fastest way.

I forgot the Heart Piece in the crate.

Ok about getting those Skulltullas in DC later, but I did not forget the Heart Piece above the entrance.  It is going to be faster as an adult as the ledge you jump from has an adult only Skulltulla on it.

That's cool knowing about the beans.

Also, I did forget a Skulltulla on the route.  Right when you go to the market, you should stop by the rupee room for gs18 as well as money to do the double fishing game at the start.  Actually, this little trip ensures you can afford it ASAP.

I'll edit my route post to account for these details.

YautjaElder

2006-06-09 11:48:20 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

That mask thing is bad buisiness. I always thought showing the letter was the flag to let you borrow the mask. Things will just have to be re-arranged so that you go and get/drop off the mask after the owlwarp down from the mountain. It sucks, but I think it's the fastest way.

Wait, maybe you're right. I would be an idiot not to test it, so I will.

Amazing Ampharos

2006-06-09 11:53:10 pm

I just looked over the list of Skulltullas in Dodongo's Cavern, and since we already have Bombchus and the Boomerang right when we enter, I can't see putting any of them except gs41 off until you're an adult as time savers unless adult link physically moves faster or something. The one inside the giant skull is unquestionably kid link's as adult link won't go in there but kid link has to. As per the other two, don't you get them on your way to bombs? I know the one that usually forced you to lure over a monster and wasted a ton of time can be gotten easily with Bombchus, and the other one is right by a door you go through anyway, isn't it? Unless we do a bunch of tricks to get the Bomb Bag faster by radically sequence breaking the dungeon and those two are just more in the way toward gs41 and gs42 as an adult. I really am not sure about the exact route through DC as stuff like the ground jump seems to break it so I don't know how it's going to work out.

I hope you were wrong about the mask flag. I changed it in the route to the noticably slower way if you're right, but I'm overeager to change it back just in case. Hmm, if you don't have a file near there, I could test it as I do, but I don't want to have us do redundant tests.

I just looked over the list of Skulltullas in Dodongo's Cavern, and since we already have Bombchus and the Boomerang right when we enter, I can't see putting any of them except gs41 off until you're an adult as time savers unless adult link physically moves faster or something.  The one inside the giant skull is unquestionably kid link's as adult link won't go in there but kid link has to.  As per the other two, don't you get them on your way to bombs?  I know the one that usually forced you to lure over a monster and wasted a ton of time can be gotten easily with Bombchus, and the other one is right by a door you go through anyway, isn't it?  Unless we do a bunch of tricks to get the Bomb Bag faster by radically sequence breaking the dungeon and those two are just more in the way toward gs41 and gs42 as an adult.  I really am not sure about the exact route through DC as stuff like the ground jump seems to break it so I don't know how it's going to work out.

I hope you were wrong about the mask flag.  I changed it in the route to the noticably slower way if you're right, but I'm overeager to change it back just in case.  Hmm, if you don't have a file near there, I could test it as I do, but I don't want to have us do redundant tests.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-10 12:02:58 am

2006-06-10 12:01:55 am

Speed is the key.

You were right, Amazing. The mask shop opens after the dialouge with the guard. Cheesy

About Dodongo's... I'll use ground jump to get to the switch in the main roon immidiately. I will pick the skulltula in the corridor with baby dodongos as an adult with scarecrows song, and I'll grab the other one at the same time. The one above the huge stairs will be gotten with longshot, as it would prabably take 2-3 minutes to get to as child.

You're route seems flawless now. It's all good. Cheesy

Now I'm gonna get some sleep... it's 01:00 over here and I haven't slept in two days, so I'll see you tomorrow... or whatever. Wink

FIERCELINKMASTER

2006-06-10 12:10:36 am

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

You were right, Amazing. The mask shop opens after the dialouge with the guard. Cheesy

Well yeah..The guard does tell you to go to the Happy Mask shop. Tongue