Number SMW Marathon (Nov 2-4)

2012-11-05 05:48:56 pm

.

Interesting. I'd like to see a similar set of stats for the past AGDQ/SGDQ marathons to see how they compare. Thanks for those, Omnigamer.

facetouch

2012-11-05 05:54:58 pm

Quote from Omnigamer:

I apologize that everything is not the exact same timeframe.

Why apologize? You got us numbers. Numbers are cool. I'd also love to see that for AGDQ.

kirbymastah

2012-11-05 06:00:21 pm

<(^_^)>

While I understand people not liking the FrankerZ spam cheer-fest (I myself was part of it and had tons of fun), I personally think it's not a bad idea at all to have two chats that someone else mentioned already. It might be excessive though, and a lot of work to get that working, and extra work for the moderators... <_< Just my two cents.

jape

2012-11-05 06:06:06 pm

very naise great success

DbX

Edit history:

DbX: 2012-11-05 06:09:16 pm

2012-11-05 06:07:09 pm

Shmus

I think the chat was fine. While running my game I had no problem picking out questions tbh. Kind of does suck for the (very few) people who wanna actually discuss the game etc. when the crowd goes wild, so maybe a second channel would be a good idea idk. I think the majority of ppl wanna go wild though and it'd be killin the mood to not let them. The idea is to have fun anyway.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2012-11-05 06:30:30 pm

2012-11-05 06:19:29 pm

All the things

EDIT: See 2 below.

CosmoWright

2012-11-05 06:25:18 pm

shake shake

Omnigamer

2012-11-05 06:30:41 pm

All the things

Apparently the forum doesn't attach files when you're editing. Anyway, this is the raw data in an excel spreadsheet. Included is also the number of average concurrent viewers and raw hours watched, which is the aggregate amount of time that people watched the stream.

Attachment:

NumberSMW.xls

Garrison

2012-11-05 06:37:54 pm

I just wanted to chime in and say that I've never had more fun with a chat in my life. It was friendly, it was focused, it was fun. Let's face the facts, not only is speedrunning getting bigger with the SDA events, growth of SRL, and the new found popularity of Twitch. People are only going to keep showing up to these and our numbers are only going to keep growing. Not only that, but the super subsets of hardcore gamers are becoming intertwined. I saw names and faces from the fighting game community, the rhythm game folks, the bloggers, the writers, the streamers, the LPers, the indie developers, and the twitch staff. Our numbers were massive and passed a certain point, the chaos only gets bigger and bigger. The fact that we were able to focus the chat and turn what's been considered the downside of twitch into actual money donations is flat out miraculous. That's why you probably see people like myself and all the other mods get up in arms when people say our chat was terrible. I'm honored to have worked with all the folks at #smw, SRL, and the SDA folk who came in, and I'm honored that our gargantuan viewerbase was so generous and so willing to participate. Thanks to everyone who was a part of it, it gives me a really good feeling to have something that started out as an idea in my head turn into something so massive and so beautiful. Truly an honor, guys.

As for the chat discussion about AGDQ, it's not our event, we're just guests there to support a common cause. Ultimately, it's up to the SDA staff how they want to handle the chat and what they think is best. Y'all saw my thoughts on the matter, but I trust in mike and whoever to make whatever call is necessary. If I did have a wish, though, it's that people would loosen up and have more fun with the large chats. I know I was personally banned on day 1 for saying "Trihex for president" during the first day of AGDQ last year, and that turned me off of that chat altogether. That's my two cents, love and respect to all.

I just wanted to chime in and say that I've never had more fun with a chat in my life. It was friendly, it was focused, it was fun. Let's face the facts, not only is speedrunning getting bigger with the SDA events, growth of SRL, and the new found popularity of Twitch. People are only going to keep showing up to these and our numbers are only going to keep growing. Not only that, but the super subsets of hardcore gamers are becoming intertwined. I saw names and faces from the fighting game community, the rhythm game folks, the bloggers, the writers, the streamers, the LPers, the indie developers, and the twitch staff. Our numbers were massive and passed a certain point, the chaos only gets bigger and bigger. The fact that we were able to focus the chat and turn what's been considered the downside of twitch into actual money donations is flat out miraculous. That's why you probably see people like myself and all the other mods get up in arms when people say our chat was terrible. I'm honored to have worked with all the folks at #smw, SRL, and the SDA folk who came in, and I'm honored that our gargantuan viewerbase was so generous and so willing to participate. Thanks to everyone who was a part of it, it gives me a really good feeling to have something that started out as an idea in my head turn into something so massive and so beautiful. Truly an honor, guys.

As for the chat discussion about AGDQ, it's not our event, we're just guests there to support a common cause. Ultimately, it's up to the SDA staff how they want to handle the chat and what they think is best. Y'all saw my thoughts on the matter, but I trust in mike and whoever to make whatever call is necessary. If I did have a wish, though, it's that people would loosen up and have more fun with the large chats. I know I was personally banned on day 1 for saying "Trihex for president" during the first day of AGDQ last year, and that turned me off of that chat altogether. That's my two cents, love and respect to all.

MarkSoupial

Edit history:

MarkSoupial: 2012-11-05 06:52:44 pm

2012-11-05 06:52:24 pm

~_~

IRC Disconnected at some point, missed too much to bother reconnecting for more:
#smwchatlog http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/5W1SJXUT/_smwmarathon_chatlog.txt_links

Darkwing Duck

2012-11-05 06:56:17 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Garrison:

it's that people would loosen up and have more fun with the large chats.

The only problem with that is there are a lot of people who consider that kind of chat the complete opposite of fun.

RaneofSOTN

2012-11-05 07:16:09 pm

I want off the ride....

I dont really have much to say since i was moving during the whole #SMW stream and I only could watch on my phone which didn't (through the twitch app) give me access to the chat, but there are kinda two big differences between the #SMW marathon and AGDQ.

#SMW represents a small subset of the speedrunning community and each person was doing their own thing..

AGDQ represents Speeddemosarchive.com and the subset of the speedrunning community that makes up that area.

What is the big difference here? #SMW doesn't necessarily have a lot to worry about in backlash about things happening. They aren't really a big "group" and have just formed and dont have some preconditions to satisfy nor some sort of code to uphold to... while if you....
Look at SDA... We have this "no cheating, skill" etc standards. And then we also have the fact that AGDQ will be representing PCF..... #SMW didn't have a charity backing it up.

REMEMBER: What we allow in all things (stream/chat/promotions) can be (mis-)construed and pointed back to our partner/chairty (PCF). Thus allowing a "un-modded chat" is almost NOT an option. Having a less moderated chat, is something. Channeling people to chant/etc thats fine. But you still need to keep out the really negative influences.

the point:
#SMW was representing itself and only itself

AGDQ represents ourselves, SDA and PCF. The stakes are higher, and we need to make sure that things are all OK.

Am I for a possibly more laid back chat? - Yes!
Do I think its feasible at the numbers we hit in LAST YEAR'S MARATHON? - NO!!!
Do I project it'll be feasible at the numbers we will smash in running this one? - .....

Just saying. "Let things fly" is asking for bad things to come out, and bad situations and tastes to really get out.

I dont really have much to say since i was moving during the whole #SMW stream and I only could watch on my phone which didn't (through the twitch app) give me access to the chat, but there are kinda two big differences between the #SMW marathon and AGDQ.

#SMW represents a small subset of the speedrunning community and each person was doing their own thing..

AGDQ represents Speeddemosarchive.com and the subset of the speedrunning community that makes up that area.

What is the big difference here? #SMW doesn't necessarily have a lot to worry about in backlash about things happening. They aren't really a big "group" and have just formed and dont have some preconditions to satisfy nor some sort of code to uphold to... while if you....
Look at SDA... We have this "no cheating, skill" etc standards. And then we also have the fact that AGDQ will be representing PCF..... #SMW didn't have a charity backing it up.

REMEMBER: What we allow in all things (stream/chat/promotions) can be (mis-)construed and pointed back to our partner/chairty (PCF). Thus allowing a "un-modded chat" is almost NOT an option. Having a less moderated chat, is something. Channeling people to chant/etc thats fine. But you still need to keep out the really negative influences.

the point:
#SMW was representing itself and only itself

AGDQ represents ourselves, SDA and PCF. The stakes are higher, and we need to make sure that things are all OK.

Am I for a possibly more laid back chat? - Yes!
Do I think its feasible at the numbers we hit in LAST YEAR'S MARATHON? - NO!!!
Do I project it'll be feasible at the numbers we will smash in running this one? - .....

Just saying. "Let things fly" is asking for bad things to come out, and bad situations and tastes to really get out.

mikwuyma

2012-11-05 07:23:34 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

We (SDA staff) are talking about how to approach modding and chat during AGDQ. I agree it needs be more lenient because some of the kicks and bans were ridiculous during AGDQ 2012, like the case Garrison mentioned. There's nothing wrong with a bit of caps and cheering when people are excited. Yes, I'm cool with D e e R F o r C e, contrary to what most people might think. Tongue

I think the spooktacular marathon last week was a good example of how to moderate, which was in between AGDQ 2012 and #smw marathon chat. Like Breakdown said, I like the, ""don't be a spambot, don't be a dick" level of rules.

Sorry twitch face fans, but IRC is actually better for us because the twitch pm system is crap, and we need IRC queries in case if the chat is moving really fast and someone needs to contact us for something like a missed donation comment.

As for the #smw marathon chat, well it's not my chat, so let it rock whatever way you guys want.

About AGDQ and SGDQ stats, I should be able to fetch those pretty easily.

Rane: What I said might be easier said than done, but we won't know unless if we try. And yes, the fact we also represent PCF is another important point to touch.

Garrison: Thanks for the respect, and you guys threw a great marathon, from what little I could catch (stupid work). Sad

We (SDA staff) are talking about how to approach modding and chat during AGDQ. I agree it needs be more lenient because some of the kicks and bans were ridiculous during AGDQ 2012, like the case Garrison mentioned. There's nothing wrong with a bit of caps and cheering when people are excited. Yes, I'm cool with D e e R F o r C e, contrary to what most people might think. :P I think the spooktacular marathon last week was a good example of how to moderate, which was in between AGDQ 2012 and #smw marathon chat. Like Breakdown said, I like the, ""don't be a spambot, don't be a dick" level of rules.

Sorry twitch face fans, but IRC is actually better for us because the twitch pm system is crap, and we need IRC queries in case if the chat is moving really fast and someone needs to contact us for something like a missed donation comment.

As for the #smw marathon chat, well it's not my chat, so let it rock whatever way you guys want.

About AGDQ and SGDQ stats, I should be able to fetch those pretty easily.

Rane: What I said might be easier said than done, but we won't know unless if we try. And yes, the fact we also represent PCF is another important point to touch.

Garrison: Thanks for the respect, and you guys threw a great marathon, from what little I could catch (stupid work). :(

Lee

Edit history:

Lee: 2012-11-05 07:44:14 pm

Lee: 2012-11-05 07:43:03 pm

2012-11-05 07:42:47 pm

A few thoughts: Although this exact kind of moderation would not be suited for AGDQ, there is indeed a lot we can learn from it. One in particular is that the power of positively directing the chat is strong. I specifically remember banning more than a few repeat trolls due to people feeling like they were snubbed. That kind of thing was much less prevalent during this marathon. True, it was a smaller marathon, and there still was the occasional troll/spammer, but I believe that giving people a place to positively channel their energy is certainly a good thing.

On the other hand, with a peak of 12-13k viewers at last year, Asking every person in chat to spam as it was done during this marathon probably wouldn't work. But I'm certain that something similar can be done. Case in point: Chicken Burger vs. Sammich. Positive directing of chat, gives them something to focus on, less energy that goes everywhere (including in trolling directions). Of course, that has the weakness of not having the chat focused on the run/ the runners. And of course, the PG-13 rule is still enforced, so things like #fuckyoutwig isn't allowed, but I'm pretty sure that most of us realize that as well.

I love Omni's numbers. Anecdotal evidence is all well and good, but solid numbers is far more important.

Rane: I don't think there' s anyone who disagrees with moderating racist/sexist/otherwise terrible comments. I saw pretty consistent bans regarding any of that kind of stuff.

So yes, definitely not as black and white as some people are painting it.

A few thoughts: Although this exact kind of moderation would not be suited for AGDQ, there is indeed a lot we can learn from it. One in particular is that the power of positively directing the chat is strong. I specifically remember banning more than a few repeat trolls due to people feeling like they were snubbed. That kind of thing was much less prevalent during this marathon. True, it was a smaller marathon, and there still was the occasional troll/spammer, but I believe that giving people a place to positively channel their energy is certainly a good thing.

On the other hand, with a peak of 12-13k viewers at last year, Asking every person in chat to spam as it was done during this marathon probably wouldn't work. But I'm certain that something similar can be done. Case in point: Chicken Burger vs. Sammich. Positive directing of chat, gives them something to focus on, less energy that goes everywhere (including in trolling directions). Of course, that has the weakness of not having the chat focused on the run/ the runners. And of course, the PG-13 rule is still enforced, so things like #fuckyoutwig isn't allowed, but I'm pretty sure that most of us realize that as well.

I love Omni's numbers. Anecdotal evidence is all well and good, but solid numbers is far more important.

Rane: I don't think there' s anyone who disagrees with moderating racist/sexist/otherwise terrible comments. I saw pretty consistent bans regarding any of that kind of stuff.

So yes, definitely not as black and white as some people are painting it.

Breakdown

Edit history:

Breakdown: 2012-11-05 09:12:33 pm

2012-11-05 09:11:51 pm

Haters gonna hate

First off, let me say excellent show to all involved. There's a ton of bickering about how "chat should be this" and "FrankerZ" is dumb and "D e e R F o r C E," etc, and these things will happen, but let none of this take away from the fact that #smw and company put on a damn fine show. I watched a bunch this weekend and was thoroughly entertained, even went back for a few VODs (shoutouts to Sent for awesome Pop'n and Twinkle Tale runs, wish I was actually awake for those). Fantastic job to all, don't let any bickering of logistics and chat ideals get you down.

And now, some further bickering about chat ideals:

As mike said already, for AGDQ I'm for the "don't be a spambot, don't be a dick" school of chat rules, and really that seemed to be the basic ruleset in place here. For the most part, the chat wasn't as bad as people were saying, but Lee's "black and white" comment rings pretty true here. Most people saying it was fine and readable kinda gloss over massive periods of nigh constant face spam (best example I was around was about the entire second half of SMRPG, if you weren't FrankerZing, you were lost in the doggy abyss), and people in the other camp gloss over periods where it was readable (most of the runs I was around for, funkdoc's block, Mega Mans, and LttP were busy, but decyperable, and direct interaction with others in the chat was pretty easy). Some people liked it one, some liked it the other, these camps will not meet in the middle, both sides should realize this. I'm going to take this opportunity to wave my forum mod stick around threateningly and tell the two camps to stop antagonizing each other.

Now, the question as to why the chat was calmer at points and face spam and #flavoroftheminute happy at others is really pretty simple to answer. Some are pointing fingers at the moderators, but this isn't fair or accurate. Really, the biggest contributing factor was the commentary. If commentary was focused on the game, chat focused more on the game, and this held true for serious game talk (LttP, Castlevanias, boh very informative) and less serious (PJ's runs, game focused, but lighter and hilarious). The tone was different in the chat between the two brands of game commentary, but focus was still on the games. Then you have SMRPG (and likely other instances from what I gather, but this was the best example I was around for) where commentary largely ignored the game and went more straight chat interaction. Really, towards the end it seemed more commentary was making the chat dance for them, but those participating didn't seem to mind. Crowd was hype, people who were into it were very into it, but the game became a backdrop. Now, during both game-centric and chat-centric commentary periods you had people trying to face spam and talk about the games respectively (you can't silence kappa on twitch ever, and I caught at least of handful of people giving props to cygher for his first try 100 super jumps [good shit man btw]), but they were the heavy minority in both cases. I'm not going to sit here and say one way is right or wrong, there were people who enjoyed, one, the other, or both styles, and they all got their time in the sun this weekend.

So where am I going with all of this? Really the big point to drive home is I don't think how the chat's moderated should be the main focus going into AGDQ, but more how commentary should be handled. Given what I saw this last weekend, it's really not fair to say "this is how stream chats are, deal with it," because how the chat is is very much up to the streamer's control, even without heavy moderation. Moderators will be in place, yes, and the guidelines WILL be looser this year, but as for atmosphere in the chat it doesn't necessarily have to devolve into a pandemonium of emoticons. AGDQ stands to be huge this year, I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if we're averaging over 10K viewers for most of it. Chat will be fast a large chunk of the time, and there will be explosions where you can't catch anything, but if we present ourselves a certain way, the chat will mirror that to some extent, and that is what we need to strive for.

As for what I feel AGDQ should shoot for, it's about the games, that's why we started doing these things in the first place. For those not up on the history, CGDQ was the final product of basically a SDA response to other gaming marathon groups that had the games as a backdrop to a couple people in front of a webcam. That kind of thing has its place, but we wanted an event where the games were front and center, and that mentality has gotten the GDQ series of marathons where it is today. I see no reason to divert from it. That doesn't mean it'll be super cereal the whole time, I practically guarantee there will be at least one instance similar to chikin sammich of favorite Final Fantasy (nes was last in the donations, but first in our hearts), and the audience will no doubt grab a few of the bid wars and run with them to hilarious effect, but the primary focus should be kept on the games. That's my stance and I'm sticking to it. And if we stick to that collectively, the chat largely will too.

Again, huge props to all involved. You guys did great and were obviously having a blast. If there's a #smw marathon 2, I'll be there, count on it.

First off, let me say excellent show to all involved.  There's a ton of bickering about how "chat should be this" and "FrankerZ" is dumb and "D e e R F o r C E," etc, and these things will happen, but let none of this take away from the fact that #smw and company put on a damn fine show.  I watched a bunch this weekend and was thoroughly entertained, even went back for a few VODs (shoutouts to Sent for awesome Pop'n and Twinkle Tale runs, wish I was actually awake for those).  Fantastic job to all, don't let any bickering of logistics and chat ideals get you down.

And now, some further bickering about chat ideals:

As mike said already, for AGDQ I'm for the "don't be a spambot, don't be a dick" school of chat rules, and really that seemed to be the basic ruleset in place here.  For the most part, the chat wasn't as bad as people were saying, but Lee's "black and white" comment rings pretty true here.  Most people saying it was fine and readable kinda gloss over massive periods of nigh constant face spam (best example I was around was about the entire second half of SMRPG, if you weren't FrankerZing, you were lost in the doggy abyss), and people in the other camp gloss over periods where it was readable (most of the runs I was around for, funkdoc's block, Mega Mans, and LttP were busy, but decyperable, and direct interaction with others in the chat was pretty easy).  Some people liked it one, some liked it the other, these camps will not meet in the middle, both sides should realize this.  I'm going to take this opportunity to wave my forum mod stick around threateningly and tell the two camps to stop antagonizing each other.

Now, the question as to why the chat was calmer at points and face spam and #flavoroftheminute happy at others is really pretty simple to answer.  Some are pointing fingers at the moderators, but this isn't fair or accurate.  Really, the biggest contributing factor was the commentary.  If commentary was focused on the game, chat focused more on the game, and this held true for serious game talk (LttP, Castlevanias, boh very informative) and less serious (PJ's runs, game focused, but lighter and hilarious).  The tone was different in the chat between the two brands of game commentary, but focus was still on the games.  Then you have SMRPG (and likely other instances from what I gather, but this was the best example I was around for) where commentary largely ignored the game and went more straight chat interaction.  Really, towards the end it seemed more commentary was making the chat dance for them, but those participating didn't seem to mind.  Crowd was hype, people who were into it were very into it, but the game became a backdrop.  Now, during both game-centric and chat-centric commentary periods you had people trying to face spam and talk about the games respectively (you can't silence kappa on twitch ever, and I caught at least of handful of people giving props to cygher for his first try 100 super jumps [good shit man btw]), but they were the heavy minority in both cases.  I'm not going to sit here and say one way is right or wrong, there were people who enjoyed, one, the other, or both styles, and they all got their time in the sun this weekend.

So where am I going with all of this?  Really the big point to drive home is I don't think how the chat's moderated should be the main focus going into AGDQ, but more how commentary should be handled.  Given what I saw this last weekend, it's really not fair to say "this is how stream chats are, deal with it," because how the chat is is very much up to the streamer's control, even without heavy moderation.  Moderators will be in place, yes, and the guidelines WILL be looser this year, but as for atmosphere in the chat it doesn't necessarily have to devolve into a pandemonium of emoticons.  AGDQ stands to be huge this year, I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if we're averaging over 10K viewers for most of it.  Chat will be fast a large chunk of the time, and there will be explosions where you can't catch anything, but if we present ourselves a certain way, the chat will mirror that to some extent, and that is what we need to strive for.

As for what I feel AGDQ should shoot for, it's about the games, that's why we started doing these things in the first place.  For those not up on the history, CGDQ was the final product of basically a SDA response to other gaming marathon groups that had the games as a backdrop to a couple people in front of a webcam.  That kind of thing has its place, but we wanted an event where the games were front and center, and that mentality has gotten the GDQ series of marathons where it is today.  I see no reason to divert from it.  That doesn't mean it'll be super cereal the whole time, I practically guarantee there will be at least one instance similar to chikin sammich of favorite Final Fantasy (nes was last in the donations, but first in our hearts), and the audience will no doubt grab a few of the bid wars and run with them to hilarious effect, but the primary focus should be kept on the games.  That's my stance and I'm sticking to it.  And if we stick to that collectively, the chat largely will too.

Again, huge props to all involved.  You guys did great and were obviously having a blast.  If there's a #smw marathon 2, I'll be there, count on it.

mikwuyma

2012-11-05 09:14:14 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Good fucking post, Breakdown. Proving that you are as always, the man.

ssskinner

2012-11-05 09:20:43 pm

every game is a horror game

Good points, Breakdown, especially the last one. Thanks for the reminder.

Lee

2012-11-05 09:31:45 pm

Excellent post Breakdown. 100% agree that there's a place for both hype and serious commentary. Both have proven to be successful for different groups in different proportions (FGC community, MTG streaming, Starcraft, LoL, etc.), and I have full confidence that we can find the right mix for us.

sinister1

2012-11-05 09:49:05 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Ask yourself this question: If you had to make a list of priorities for a speedgaming marathon, how high would "chat moderation" be ranked on said list????

Focus on what matters and don't sweat the small stuff.

p.s. <3 Breakdown

mike89

Edit history:

mike89: 2012-11-05 10:04:10 pm

2012-11-05 10:02:27 pm

SEGA Junkie

My collected thoughts:

First off, Breakdown is the fucking man. I hope I don't need to clarify that further.

Regarding the event - Huge, huge thanks to dram and Garrison for basically letting me bandwagon this thing late in the piece, and then throwing in more of my games at a moment's notice. I had a blast! Even if my gameplay wasn't quite up to scratch...
The event obviously exceeded everyone's expectations by some way, and personally I think it's a great idea for donation streams going forward - think back to last year, where there was a donation stream every weekend for probably 2-3 months in the lead up to AGDQ, it really diluted the effect, and probably wasn't as successful per person as this combined effort.

Regarding the chat - I can only point to one instance in the entire weekend where the chat legitimately annoyed me, which is a lot more than I can say for SGDQ - I was a mod in both, and the chats were similar size throughout. Overall the laissez-faire approach worked pretty well, and I'm positive it'll be taken into account for AGDQ moderation. For my more detailed thoughts, just read Lee's post. He cut through the bullshit superbly, and I love him for it.

Regarding the community divide that seems to occur every time people disagree on something like this - There seem to be deep-seated differences in how certain people view the community, and instead of shying away from them I'd like to bring them all out onto the table so we can thrash them out and be a more united community going forward. To that end, I'm going to be running a roundtable discussion on my stream (possibly on someone else's if they agree and will reach a larger audience - which pretty much anyone will) in the next week or so, where I encourage anyone with a community related issue to join, speak up, and hear out some ideas of my own, as well as those of a few guests - people who have earned the respect of all the different factions of this community.

My collected thoughts:

First off, Breakdown is the fucking man. I hope I don't need to clarify that further.

Regarding the event - Huge, huge thanks to dram and Garrison for basically letting me bandwagon this thing late in the piece, and then throwing in more of my games at a moment's notice. I had a blast! Even if my gameplay wasn't quite up to scratch...
The event obviously exceeded everyone's expectations by some way, and personally I think it's a great idea for donation streams going forward - think back to last year, where there was a donation stream every weekend for probably 2-3 months in the lead up to AGDQ, it really diluted the effect, and probably wasn't as successful per person as this combined effort.

Regarding the chat - I can only point to one instance in the entire weekend where the chat legitimately annoyed me, which is a lot more than I can say for SGDQ - I was a mod in both, and the chats were similar size throughout. Overall the laissez-faire approach worked pretty well, and I'm positive it'll be taken into account for AGDQ moderation. For my more detailed thoughts, just read Lee's post. He cut through the bullshit superbly, and I love him for it.

[b]Regarding the community divide that seems to occur every time people disagree on something like this[/b] - There seem to be deep-seated differences in how certain people view the community, and instead of shying away from them I'd like to bring them all out onto the table so we can thrash them out and be a more united community going forward. To that end, I'm going to be running a roundtable discussion on [url=http://twitch.tv/mike89sda]my stream[/url] (possibly on someone else's if they agree and will reach a larger audience - which pretty much anyone will) in the next week or so, where I encourage anyone with a community related issue to join, speak up, and hear out some ideas of my own, as well as those of a few guests - people who have earned the respect of all the different factions of this community.

Enterim

2012-11-05 10:29:08 pm

Chat moderation matters. There have been countless occasions where I've stopped watching streams out of disgust due to the impunity with which chatters throw around rape jokes and faux-innocent racist jokes (see: Big Nig). There should obviously be a balance between allowance for humor and moderation, yes, but what you let fly as moderators is what you condone. Video game communities all too often foster a culture of casual sexism and racism (and transphobia and rape culture, etc.) (see: any fighting game stream) and moderators especially have the privilege (and I would argue, obligation) to reject these attitudes and transform their culture.

Sluip

Breakdown

Edit history:

Breakdown: 2012-11-06 06:15:27 am

Breakdown: 2012-11-06 06:11:24 am

2012-11-05 10:33:31 pm

Quote from Enterim:

Chat moderation matters. There have been countless occasions where I've stopped watching streams out of disgust due to the impunity with which chatters throw around rape jokes and faux-innocent racist jokes (see: Big Nig). There should obviously be a balance between allowance for humor and moderation, yes, but what you let fly as moderators is what you condone. Video game communities all too often foster a culture of casual sexism and racism (and transphobia and rape culture, etc.) (see: any fighting game stream) and moderators especially have the privilege (and I would argue, obligation) to reject these attitudes and transform their culture.

I tried to be funny in this post and failed miserably. I should think harder before posting in the future.

IrregularJinny

2012-11-05 10:34:56 pm

Infinite Combo

I have no words.

<3

TestRunner

2012-11-05 10:55:14 pm

Moderation really doesn't have a strong impact. Heavy moderation usually has a negative impact, actually, since viewers tend to get angry. I've seen chats with well over a 1000 viewers and no mods, and it was completely orderly. As was said above, commentary is (almost) everything. Mods exist to kill the spam bots. The commentary is to control the chat. From what I see, if the commentator is active in chat, the chat focuses on the game too, and is calm. But when the commentator ignores chat, the chat will find it's own entertainment, which is defaulted to spam. Viewers just want to be able to participate; whether that through talking with the commentator or spamming with others. Very large chats tend to be more chaotic, since it becomes harder (if not impossible) to follow chat and answer questions. So IMO, the best mods are those who try to take the load off be almost being secondary commentators and answering questions, not banning chatters.

Basically, what to get from this is that the commentators need to have constant commentary. Try to find ways to fill the silence. Like re-explain tricks or techniques. Or give interesting history to the game, runner, or speedrunning. (You might want to have water readily available, haha.)

As for whether lots of hype is good, depends on the community. And I understand that AGDQ has an image to uphold. I personally prefer my chat calm and not spammy. I hope this isn't coming off as an attack. I'm just trying to give general advice for broadcasting. Hope everyone can take a little from this, as everyone can always improve.

Also, something that I haven't seen mentioned, is chatting via donations. Donations act as a special Subscriber chat that get special attention. Everything in it get read. So many people use these donations as the way to talk to the commentator when the chat is large. Just something to take into consideration.

Moderation really doesn't have a strong impact. Heavy moderation usually has a negative impact, actually, since viewers tend to get angry. I've seen chats with well over a 1000 viewers and no mods, and it was completely orderly. As was said above, commentary is (almost) everything. Mods exist to kill the spam bots. The commentary is to control the chat. From what I see, if the commentator is active in chat, the chat focuses on the game too, and is calm. But when the commentator ignores chat, the chat will find it's own entertainment, which is defaulted to spam. Viewers just want to be able to participate; whether that through talking with the commentator or spamming with others. Very large chats tend to be more chaotic, since it becomes harder (if not impossible) to follow chat and answer questions. So IMO, the best mods are those who try to take the load off be almost being secondary commentators and answering questions, not banning chatters.

[b]Basically[/b], what to get from this is that the commentators need to have constant commentary. Try to find ways to fill the silence. Like re-explain tricks or techniques. Or give interesting history to the game, runner, or speedrunning. (You might want to have water readily available, haha.)

As for whether lots of hype is good, depends on the community. And I understand that AGDQ has an image to uphold. I personally prefer my chat calm and not spammy. I hope this isn't coming off as an attack. I'm just trying to give general advice for broadcasting. Hope everyone can take a little from this, as everyone can always improve.

Also, something that I haven't seen mentioned, is chatting via donations. Donations act as a special Subscriber chat that get special attention. Everything in it get read. So many people use these donations as the way to talk to the commentator when the chat is large.  Just something to take into consideration.

yoshifan

2012-11-05 11:21:08 pm

In case no one's pointed it out yet, we have always had 2 chats for AGDQ: the IRC (QuakeNet) chat, and the Twitch stream chat which we didn't use. The Twitch stream chat has Twitch faces, whereas the QuakeNet chat does not. So if we're thinking of having a rowdy chat and a separate "civilized" chat where questions and PMs are welcome, then such arrangements shouldn't be hard to make.