Ninja Gaiden I, II, III (NES)

2012-11-03 02:53:06 pm

Cigar Man

Great run, sinister1! My palms started sweating as I was watching when you got to Act 7. I love all the new time savers you implemented. Are you going to submit the run?

sinister1

2012-11-03 04:40:02 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from Vugmer:

Great run, sinister1! My palms started sweating as I was watching when you got to Act 7. I love all the new time savers you implemented. Are you going to submit the run?

Thanks Vugmer, I always loved your Ninja Gaiden runs over the years and you are a big part of why I play the series. I can't submit this run though guys because Duckfist already has a 10:51 and that is beatable. I think he will beat Hotarubi and then submit (I think he can get just under 10:40). I don't have the skills to beat Hotarubi in this one but I am just glad to have joined the sub 11 club. Also, it is only fair that I credit all the new strats to Hotarubi and Duckfist, I really did not come up with much in this game embarassed

Duckfist, please show these fine people how to play NG2 like a boss.

Also I hope this drums up some interest for racing this game. At the moment only duckfist and I race it, with Jinny learning it. Arcus could get into it pretty easily I remember him doing a good run and posting it here. Vugmer, you can easily learn those new tricks and get sub 11 yourself, you have the NG skills man. Please join in guys!!

[quote="Vugmer"]Great run, sinister1!  My palms started sweating as I was watching when you got to Act 7.  I love all the new time savers you implemented.  Are you going to submit the run?[/quote]
Thanks Vugmer, I always loved your Ninja Gaiden runs over the years and you are a big part of why I play the series. I can't submit this run though guys because Duckfist already has a 10:51 and that is beatable. I think he will beat Hotarubi and then submit (I think he can get just under 10:40). I don't have the skills to beat Hotarubi in this one but I am just glad to have joined the sub 11 club. Also, it is only fair that I credit all the new strats to Hotarubi and Duckfist, I really did not come up with much in this game :embarassed:

Duckfist, please show these fine people how to play NG2 like a boss.

Also I hope this drums up some interest for racing this game. At the moment only duckfist and I race it, with Jinny learning it. Arcus could get into it pretty easily I remember him doing a good run and posting it here. Vugmer, you can easily learn those new tricks and get sub 11 yourself, you have the NG skills man. Please join in guys!!

UraniumAnchor

2012-11-03 05:24:57 pm

Not a walrus

I might try to bash on it after I'm satisfied with NG3, but that might be a while. I haven't been able to practice at all the last two weeks because I've been busy (watching the marathons in some cases).

sinister1

2012-11-03 06:27:06 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from UraniumAnchor:

I might try to bash on it after I'm satisfied with NG3, but that might be a while. I haven't been able to practice at all the last two weeks because I've been busy (watching the marathons in some cases).

Nice UA! I recommend starting with the strats in the current SDA run. The new strats are kind of intense and you will die a lot more which is discouraging when learning a new game.

dxtr

Edit history:

dxtr: 2012-11-06 12:24:33 pm

dxtr: 2012-11-06 12:24:04 pm

2012-11-06 12:11:05 pm

Speedrunner

New pb: 12:07.

Surprised though since it contained ALOT of mistakes. quite awful mistakes actually

zallard1

2012-11-06 12:37:55 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Your ng1 pbs have been insane lately. Keep it up dxtr!

Uilnslcoap

2012-11-06 01:41:14 pm

F*ckin' sanity effects...

Quote from dxtr:

New pb: 12:07.

Surprised though since it contained ALOT of mistakes. quite awful mistakes actually

Crazy! Do you think sub-12 is possible for you (if unlikely) or is your measure of what an "awful mistake" is just getting into smaller and smaller time losses as you get better?

Regardless, great work. Keep going!

dxtr

Edit history:

dxtr: 2012-11-06 02:12:55 pm

dxtr: 2012-11-06 02:00:49 pm

2012-11-06 01:58:34 pm

Speedrunner

I know i lost 3 seconds on act 4. 1 second on act 5 and 1 second act 6.

Yes, I believe i can do sub 12. But it would take more time to accomplish than time i have to do it.

EDIT: But i will be satisfied when =< 12:05 happens. Since that breaks the WR
EDIT2: Well, the Console WR at least.

ozzy88

2012-11-06 02:32:39 pm

Shaving some time off like every week, this is more rapid progress then I'd think was possible. Next week you might get the 12:05 if you keep this up Smiley

sinister1

2012-11-06 02:34:39 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Congrats on gettin closer to WR dxtr. Just to clarify, I believe that by SDA timing, Exo's time is 12:02 and Hotarubi's is 12:05. You may have to do a few strat upgrades now to push the time down further. You have gotten to the point that one second is way to valuable to throw away on strats alone. My recommendations:

1-1: There is a Nico strat that is a good frame saver and allows you to get very high 119's consistently. Since this is so early in the run I would start going for it to give yourself that much of a head start. If you know what I am taking about, good. If not I will show it to you some time.

3-1: You know what needs to happen.

3-2: This is one that I am not sold on. I have seen Exo get the double bird boost and still get 119. Pass on this if you like.

4-3: I don't think you can afford to pass up the wall clip, just keep doing it until you get it back. I have had similar situations where I lost something that I got all the time, but that does not mean you cannot get consistent with it again. It just means you have to understand it completely and you cannot rely solely on muscle memory and "feel." You know I also want you to skip taking that hit on 4-3c because you lose frames.

5-2: The gates of hell skip. I have shown you this before I think, but it is very tricky. The thing is though, some tricks are just easier for some people. You might find that you are able to do it consistently, but you won't know if you don't try.

5-3: It drives me nuts every time I see you play this stage. If you can get 12:07 you can get that damn ninpo on 5-3b!!! You are losing a decent amount of frames in 5-3 still and I think you have to consider practicing getting that ninpo on emulator.

6-2: The Exo boost is pretty tough and in a spot where missing it can be deadly. I can't remember if you have been going for this now. My recommendation would be to do it on a case by case basis. If you are having the god run, pass on it, if not, you have nothing to lose so go for it. It has to be worth at least half a second if not more.

Last note, you need to start fast ladder climbing. I have gotten 120 on 4-1 before, but it is not possible without the fast ladder climb tech. Over the course of the run I would dare to say that you can save 1 whole second if you fast ladder climb in every spot possible. It is not hard and even if you mess up it is usually just as fast as normal climbing would have been. Just beware of how you do it in 4-1 because you can die there if you do it at the wrong spot (do a jump immediately at the screen transition and you will be fine). This is one of the biggest reasons you lose time to Exo despite having the same stage times.

The sum total of these strats should be worth 3 seconds or more. That is a huge chunk in this run. Maybe just pick the ones you are comfortable with. If I had to say the most important are 1-1, 6-2, and fast ladder climbing.

Congrats on gettin closer to WR dxtr. Just to clarify, I believe that by SDA timing, Exo's time is 12:02 and Hotarubi's is 12:05. You may have to do a few strat upgrades now to push the time down further. You have gotten to the point that one second is way to valuable to throw away on strats alone. My recommendations:

1-1: There is a Nico strat that is a good frame saver and allows you to get very high 119's consistently. Since this is so early in the run I would start going for it to give yourself that much of a head start. If you know what I am taking about, good. If not I will show it to you some time.

3-1: You know what needs to happen.

3-2: This is one that I am not sold on. I have seen Exo get the double bird boost and still get 119. Pass on this if you like.

4-3: I don't think you can afford to pass up the wall clip, just keep doing it until you get it back. I have had similar situations where I lost something that I got all the time, but that does not mean you cannot get consistent with it again. It just means you have to understand it completely and you cannot rely solely on muscle memory and "feel." You know I also want you to skip taking that hit on 4-3c because you lose frames.

5-2: The gates of hell skip. I have shown you this before I think, but it is very tricky. The thing is though, some tricks are just easier for some people. You might find that you are able to do it consistently, but you won't know if you don't try.

5-3: It drives me nuts every time I see you play this stage. If you can get 12:07 you can get that damn ninpo on 5-3b!!! You are losing a decent amount of frames in 5-3 still and I think you have to consider practicing getting that ninpo on emulator.

6-2: The Exo boost is pretty tough and in a spot where missing it can be deadly. I can't remember if you have been going for this now. My recommendation would be to do it on a case by case basis. If you are having the god run, pass on it, if not, you have nothing to lose so go for it. It has to be worth at least half a second if not more.

Last note, you need to start fast ladder climbing. I have gotten 120 on 4-1 before, but it is not possible without the fast ladder climb tech. Over the course of the run I would dare to say that you can save 1 whole second if you fast ladder climb in every spot possible. It is not hard and even if you mess up it is usually just as fast as normal climbing would have been. Just beware of how you do it in 4-1 because you can die there if you do it at the wrong spot (do a jump immediately at the screen transition and you will be fine). This is one of the biggest reasons you lose time to Exo despite having the same stage times.

The sum total of these strats should be worth 3 seconds or more. That is a huge chunk in this run. Maybe just pick the ones you are comfortable with. If I had to say the most important are 1-1, 6-2, and fast ladder climbing.

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2012-11-06 02:45:54 pm

Exo: 2012-11-06 02:45:08 pm

2012-11-06 02:42:00 pm

Sandbagging

Are you sure the nico 1-1 strat is faster? I might be thinking of a different one.
Also I won't be working on NG1 just yet so feel free to take your time ;P
As it turns out VC runs slightly faster than NES so I'm gonna save up for an ntsc nes which will hopefully happen eventually.
For the time being I wish you good luck with your attempts Smiley

PJ

2012-11-06 03:49:36 pm

Is PJ

Wow nice work dxtr!!! Keep it upppppp.

dxtr

Edit history:

dxtr: 2012-11-06 04:10:39 pm

2012-11-06 04:08:39 pm

Speedrunner

Hahaha. Sinister. I know... the 5-3 ninpo. Cheesy

Its so easy to get, but everytime im there i forget about it! Cheesy

And im NOT going for the 6-2 exoboost. Its too damn risky. (Whats worse is that it saves about 1 second) i cant seem to get it consistly. Sometimes i try it for fun and get it, but im to far behind.

Overall, greats tips as always Sinister. Gonna upload the run tomorrow so you can see it.

Arcus

2012-11-06 04:28:09 pm

We are neck and neck dxtr! I got a 12:08 just yesterday. Mine also has a bunch of awful mistakes.

dxtr

Edit history:

dxtr: 2012-11-06 04:51:38 pm

dxtr: 2012-11-06 04:51:22 pm

dxtr: 2012-11-06 04:47:49 pm

2012-11-06 04:30:09 pm

Speedrunner

Oh wow Arcus! This is going to be interesting! Smiley

EDIT: Watched it and.... daaaamn. A1-3 = beautiful. Maybe the best ive ever seen. Except the wrong wallclimb.

I think i need to set my goals abit lower. Your mashing has also gotten better. I think you have the potential to break the 12min. More then i have.

sinister1

2012-11-06 05:22:08 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from Exo:

Are you sure the nico 1-1 strat is faster? I might be thinking of a different one.
Also I won't be working on NG1 just yet so feel free to take your time ;P
As it turns out VC runs slightly faster than NES so I'm gonna save up for an ntsc nes which will hopefully happen eventually.
For the time being I wish you good luck with your attempts Smiley

I will double check but I am pretty sure that you get a very high (TAS like) 119 off that 1-1 strat, it is just a pain to pull off. You save frames where just before the Mike Tyson boost by having 5 extra ninpo to kill the dog with a run off the edge + spinslash and land where you can jump + spinslash the 1st Tyson without losing frames to clipping the curb. I think you also save frames from the alternate route in the beginning since your path is slightly more linear in just going right the whole time.

Can you clarify what you mean by "VC runs slightly faster than NTSC"?? Like runs at 60.1hz or something?

@Arcus: Very nice!! I am glad you are giving dxtr some serious competition. Hell, I am motivated to try and lower my PB because of you guys. Hopefully one of you will cut the WR soon.

[quote="Exo"]Are you sure the nico 1-1 strat is faster? I might be thinking of a different one.
Also I won't be working on NG1 just yet so feel free to take your time ;P
As it turns out VC runs slightly faster than NES so I'm gonna save up for an ntsc nes which will hopefully happen eventually.
For the time being I wish you good luck with your attempts :)[/quote]
I will double check but I am pretty sure that you get a very high (TAS like) 119 off that 1-1 strat, it is just a pain to pull off. You save frames where just before the Mike Tyson boost by having 5 extra ninpo to kill the dog with a run off the edge + spinslash and land where you can jump + spinslash the 1st Tyson without losing frames to clipping the curb. I think you also save frames from the alternate route in the beginning since your path is slightly more linear in just going right the whole time.

Can you clarify what you mean by "VC runs slightly faster than NTSC"?? Like runs at 60.1hz or something?

@Arcus: Very nice!! I am glad you are giving dxtr some serious competition. Hell, I am motivated to try and lower my PB because of you guys. Hopefully one of you will cut the WR soon.

dxtr

2012-11-07 01:19:32 am

Speedrunner

I believe i can do a faster 1-1. By:

1. Going the upper level directly at the start.
2. Instead of boosting forward before getting the spinslash, i boost at the precise moment before the dude so i get stuck on the wall and just jump of it.
3. Spinslash the dog. But i need 5 extra ninpo, where do i get it?

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2012-11-07 03:59:56 am

Exo: 2012-11-07 03:59:34 am

Exo: 2012-11-07 03:59:11 am

2012-11-07 03:57:56 am

Sandbagging

I dont know how much faster it is exactly sinister. I just know that I gained frames where i shouldn't have been able to.

sinister1

2012-11-07 08:23:00 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from dxtr:

I believe i can do a faster 1-1. By:

1. Going the upper level directly at the start.
2. Instead of boosting forward before getting the spinslash, i boost at the precise moment before the dude so i get stuck on the wall and just jump of it.
3. Spinslash the dog. But i need 5 extra ninpo, where do i get it?

1: Yes, climb the first Coca-Cola sign and kill the two clubbers, then do a wall jump (like the one done toward the end of the stage after the Tyson boost) onto the 2nd Coca-Cola sign.
2: This is an optical illusion, that is actually slower, it just looks faster because you are moving faster off the wall.
3: The extra 5 ninpo is just before the 1st Tyson. Since you will be coming from on top of the Coca-Cola sign you can easily get it without stopping.

I will make a highlight on my stream tonight dxtr. If you really, really wanna see it you can go through this thread and look for a nico run that I think was like a 12:25.

@Exo: That actually makes sense because duckfist plays on VC and some stages of NG II he will get times I cannot get even though we play them the exact same (still have not gotten 217 on 3-1 even when I do it perfect, I miss it by a few frames).

[quote="dxtr"]I believe i can do a faster 1-1. By:

1. Going the upper level directly at the start.
2. Instead of boosting forward before getting the spinslash, i boost at the precise moment before the dude so i get stuck on the wall and just jump of it.
3. Spinslash the dog. But i need 5 extra ninpo, where do i get it?
[/quote]
1: Yes, climb the first Coca-Cola sign and kill the two clubbers, then do a wall jump (like the one done toward the end of the stage after the Tyson boost) onto the 2nd Coca-Cola sign.
2: This is an optical illusion, that is actually slower, it just looks faster because you are moving faster off the wall. 
3: The extra 5 ninpo is just before the 1st Tyson. Since you will be coming from on top of the Coca-Cola sign you can easily get it without stopping.

I will make a highlight on my stream tonight dxtr. If you really, really wanna see it you can go through this thread and look for a nico run that I think was like a 12:25.

@Exo: That actually makes sense because duckfist plays on VC and some stages of NG II he will get times I cannot get even though we play them the exact same (still have not gotten 217 on 3-1 even when I do it perfect, I miss it by a few frames).

Arcus

2012-11-07 03:33:08 pm

Did anybody ever slide or moonwalk in NG1? It happened to me as I was taking the alternate route at 1-1. I have never seen it outside of a TAS.

dxtr

2012-11-07 04:03:40 pm

Speedrunner

I think ive seen it before actually. Awesome anyhow! Cheesy

sinister1

Edit history:

sinister1: 2012-11-07 09:38:21 pm

sinister1: 2012-11-07 09:38:03 pm

sinister1: 2012-11-07 09:37:33 pm

2012-11-07 06:05:21 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Wow Arcus, I finally got to watch your most recent run. That was unbelievable, you can definitely get sub 12:00 man! I really didn't believe the whole awful mistakes comment until I saw some of them Sad

but overall the run was still pretty unreal.

The second vid is crazy, I have not seen the moonwalk outside of TAS and was under the impression it requires multiple directional input.

I am excited to see you both compete for the NG title, this shit is getting intense!!

EDIT:

dxtr, that 1-1 strat is the route Arcus used in the above video.

Also, I got a much better sub 11 run of Ninja Gaiden II in 10:53. Closing in on the duckfist.

Arcus

2012-11-08 11:10:49 am

Quote from sinister1:

Also, I got a much better sub 11 run of Ninja Gaiden II in 10:53. Closing in on the duckfist.

Very smooth sinister! I don't know too much about NG2, but it looked like there was not a lot to improve after watching that. Now you need to knock a few seconds off of your NG1 time to stay well-rounded. Smiley

Also, I really like the rivalries we have going in the Ninja Gaiden series. It's never been quite like this before.

dxtr

Edit history:

dxtr: 2012-11-08 12:21:11 pm

2012-11-08 12:20:39 pm

Speedrunner

The 12:07 run. ACT4... what did i drink during that act?

I do like my recover during 5-1 and Jaquio on the last hits.

Arcus

2012-11-08 01:46:55 pm

Very clean run dxtr! It actually felt like you went ten seconds faster than mine when watching it. I do not remember seeing any really bad mistakes in your run, either.

I have a question for all the mashers out there. I still use my leg to stabilize the controller when mashing, but I am wondering if I should use my chair or even a small table instead. What do you guys use for controller stabilization these days?