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I tried killing everyone in City Core, but it only nets around 7000XP, barely enough for level 5. Is the Beggar's Nest conversation you were talking about with Walters? If so, I think it has been patched, or I don't know how to reproduce it myself.

Masterson can't be duped unfortunately.

Playing around Chapter 1 with double stacked Expeditious Retreats makes me almost want to start routing that 100% Cheesy
Right, with Walters. IIRC, the way you reproduce it is to shut the door, talk to him, then after getting the experience restart the conversation and talk to him again. It's not a simple button-mash like the demon is. That said, I haven't tried it out on Diamond. (Actually, after my computer issues, I don't even have my usual set of save files for testing right now; I need to go make a run of the game, saving at every split, to be able to test.)
AFAIK you don't even have to open the door to be able to talk to him (however Drawl needs to be dead). DebugMode 1 and other cheat codes are your friend if you want to try it out quickly.
Edit history:
Mejcel: 2017-08-22 02:27:33 am
Mejcel: 2017-08-19 05:26:51 pm
Mejcel: 2017-08-19 05:26:40 pm
Mejcel: 2017-08-19 05:25:46 pm
Mejcel: 2017-08-19 05:03:58 pm
Mejcel: 2017-08-19 05:03:49 pm
So, I did a thorough analysis spreadsheet of all the different traversal options. You'll get the most out of it if you download and experiment with it yourself. Most of the time you just want to test out different Monk/Wizard level combinations, resting times and so on, and check out how the average speed of all the different methods of travel change in the bottom-left corner.

I used LibreOffice to create it, so the spreadsheet is probably best viewed with that program. It seems like there are some formatting errors in Google Sheets for example that I will fix in time, but it's not a high priority for me right now. Anyway, here's the link: (and here's how it should actually look like).

First of all, there are lots of variables involved here, so the spreadsheet might still have some errors in it. Just tell me if you see something wrong.

Also, the average speeds section in the spreadsheet assumes ideal conditions such as always using up every single spell in a rest - plus it doesn't account for example loading screens, having to stop to fight enemies, open doors, loot containers etc... so in practice everything's a lot more complicated.



ER = Expeditious Retreat
EER = Extended Expeditious Retreat
SS = Speedstacking = Casting Expeditious Retreat on top of previous ER/perma-haste item. (Need to be at least level 3 Monk).


First of all, some charts about optimal Wizard and Monk level distribution:

1) When wearing perma-haste items:
    1a) If you wear a perma-haste item and don't have to rest, SS with EER only is the fastest.
    1b) If you have to rest, using both ER & EER to SS is the fastest.
    1c) If you have more than 8 levels of Wizard and have to rest, SS with EER only is the fastest.
    1d) Starting from level 24, having only Monk levels is the fastest. If you for example had some leftover ER/EER from being a level 3 Wizard you should still use them up, but it's not really worth resting for them anymore.
    1e) If you're level 3 Wizard/27 Monk, casting leftover ERs loses time. EER's still save time, but it's not worth resting for them anymore.
    1f) Level 30 Monks obviously don't benefit from any SS whatsoever.
    1g) Interestingly enough, you never want to take more than 6 Wizard levels.

2) If you're unable to obtain perma-haste items:
    2a) If you don't have access to Potions of Speed, SS with EER only is always the fastest.
    2b) Before level 6, using only Potions of Speed is the fastest.
    2c) Starting from level 24, having only Monk levels and using only Potions of Speed is the fastest.
    2d) If you would take only max. 3 Wizard levels, starting from level 21 Monk/(3 Wizard), SS is slower than casting ER & EER normally (if you have to rest).
    2e) If you would take only max. 3 Wizard levels, starting from level 15 Monk/(3 Wizard), using only Potions of Speed is the fastest.


3) Expeditious Retreat does not stack with the spell Haste or Potions of Speed.
    3a) Mass Haste stacks with Expeditious Retreat.
    3b) Perma-Haste items stack with Expeditious Retreat.

4) As a level 3 Wizard(/0 Monk) only, casting only EER and having to rest is only marginally slower (1.5 units) than casting both EER & ER.
    4a) Starting from level 4 Wizard (again, 0 Monk) EER only is always faster.

5) Casting Expeditious Retreat as a level 1 Wizard is actually slightly faster than not. However having to rest for spells makes it slower than normal running.

6) SS is only useful starting from level 2 Wizard/(3 Monk). I'm not sure that you would ever take Monk levels before Wizard levels in a real run though.

7) Perma-Haste Item Only loses to speedstacking without an item up until level 12 Monk/3 Wizard.
    7a) It loses even more if you level up optimally, in fact up to level 17 (8 Wizard/9 Monk) SS w/o an item is faster.
    7b) Naturally this shouldn't mean all that much when you can SS with a perma-haste item, however maybe in some run in some alternate universe you would have to get out of your way to find a perma-haste item, which could make it more interesting.

8) One in-game tile is 5000 units (so a default character with 2000 speed takes 2.5 seconds to traverse through it).

9) In theory, getting Intelligence makes you slightly faster (since you gain more spell slots = have to rest less often). Probably not worth it in practice.


What this could mean in practice for the three runs:


- Before XP Demon, probably not worth it to grind to level 5/6.
- After XP Demon, we're level 24. Current route has us level 3 Wizard/21 Monk (6500 default speed with the Haste robes).
- ER & EER SS should in theory save time (6817 > 6500).
- However, maybe an even more optimal level distribution would be better. Level 6 Wizard/18 Monk using ER & EER SS should in theory have an average speed of 6963.
- Should also check if getting even more levels would be worth it. Previously it was constrained by Monk only gaining speed every 3rd level, whereas every Wizard level equals more speed in theory. I highly doubt it's worth it though.
- Item 4) could make some parts of Chapter 1 interesting, in some fringe cases maybe resting & EER only could be faster?


- The current leveling is most likely optimal. Since in Chapter 1 you get a perma-haste item almost immediately, level 6 Wizard/9 Monk would be the most optimal (6383 vs. 6264) for that part. However since the first chapter is also so short (5:34), and having 3 less Monk levels hurts much more later on during the run, I doubt it would ever be worth it.
- I did check Chapter 1 with the current level distribution (3 Wiz/12 Monk), and you do save at least 5 seconds of time using only EER speedstacking. As an added bonus, "walking through doors" glitches are a lot easier with a faster character.
- As previously mentioned, re-equipping the Haste robes after the level up in the beginning of Chapter 2 should save time.
- Based on testing it seems like using an ER while leveling up (at the start of Chapter 2) doesn't really save any time, and after the level up we're level 30 Monk anyway, making further speedstacking useless.
- Funnily enough changing modules (getting to Chapter 3) resets your speed calculations, so I've been max speed starting from Chapter 3 in the previous runs. So this might not change all that much in HotU after all.


- I hit level 6 in the Tomb of Kel-Garas in my previous run. There's still 15 minutes left to abuse speedstacking, which should be a lot faster (5021 ER & EER SS vs. 3322 Potion of Speed only, level 3 Monk/3 Wizard).
- Maybe it's even worth it to grind for experience at some point during the run in order to abuse SS earlier? This could be a possibility since the speed difference is quite huge, and there's plenty of experience to be had for example at J'Nah's.
- Previously I took Fighter as the last, 7th level to gain an extra feat of Weapon Focus (greatsword). Getting a 4th Wizard level instead should be a bit faster in theory.


Again, these are still just theoretical calculations that don't take any "real life" variables in account. Everything needs to be confirmed in-game, which can yet prove to be very troublesome. Having more speed isn't necessarily all that life-changing if there isn't enough opportunities in-game to take advantage of it. The real runs have to deal with loading screens, doors, actions you have to stop and perform, etc. and testing things with all those variables out there might become a real pain.