N64 Banjo-Tooie any%/100%

mike89

Edit history:

mike89: 2012-10-30 07:58:27 am

2012-10-30 07:56:22 am

SEGA Junkie

If memory serves, Clockwork Kazooie Eggs is 305 or 310, so you'd have to do two extra stages before going to TDL in any case. You'd still gain time by going there before JRL if possible though (as JRL doesn't link to anywhere via the train, you could probably just drop into it from HFP and do the whole thing in one go).

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-10-30 08:09:33 am

2012-10-30 08:08:43 am

<(^_^)>

I'd still think it'd save more time to do TDL before WW instead, as cronikeys demonstrated, clockwork kazooie eggs let you skip using the van twice (only have to use it once: dodgem dome, and maybe a few arbitrary truck-door collectibles). I don't think there's much help in going to TDL before JRL besides the hatch jiggy, and that jiggy is really close to the world entrance anyways.

But yeah, going to GGM before TDL would pretty much be required, because the drilling move there is just used so often all around. Getting the waterfall jiggy somehow without the spring shoes will definitely be helpful.

Jacky Durand

Edit history:

Jacky Durand: 2012-10-30 12:23:26 pm

2012-10-30 12:05:26 pm

Quote from Cronikeys:

I found a way to skip T-Rex

Wow, those finds are really great! Just for any% the T-Rex skip would EASILY save 5 minutes, maybe even 10. For 100% you would still need Daddy T-Rex to scare off the caveman guarding Oogle Boogle's cave. Keep up the good work Cronikeys!

Quote from kirbymastah:

So I think I've said this in your stream chat, but I think it's very important to find a way to get into Wasteland and Terrydactyland as early as possible, as many of the backtracking collectibles in the first four worlds require moves from TDL, and you can get early clockwork kazooie eggs as well to break apart Witchyworld, and probably GGL and JRL as well. This should be useful for both any% and 100%

I don't understand why it is so important to get rid of the backtracking in a segmented run. Most worlds have quests where it is faster to S&Q in the middle of a level and revisit it later than doing it all in one go. As an example it takes about the same amount of time to S&Q after beating Mr. Patch and just warp back to Witchyworld from Jinjo Village later than actually leaving the tent. And it is way faster to S&Q after powering the Saucer of Peril with Mumbo than to get him back to his skull (100%). And you would already need to end one of the segments including Witchyworld in Terrydactyland to feed to Oogle Boogle's, so you need at least 3 Witchyworld segments in any case to get the fastest time.
It would be cool to be able to skip the boulder to Wasteland, but I personally don't see it as a big issue in a segmented run.

[quote="Cronikeys"]I found a way to skip T-Rex[/quote]
Wow, those finds are really great! Just for any% the T-Rex skip would EASILY save 5 minutes, maybe even 10. For 100% you would still need Daddy T-Rex to scare off the caveman guarding Oogle Boogle's cave. Keep up the good work Cronikeys!

[quote="kirbymastah"]So I think I've said this in your stream chat, but I think it's very important to find a way to get into Wasteland and Terrydactyland as early as possible, as many of the backtracking collectibles in the first four worlds require moves from TDL, and you can get early clockwork kazooie eggs as well to break apart Witchyworld, and probably GGL and JRL as well. This should be useful for both any% and 100%[/quote]
I don't understand why it is so important to get rid of the backtracking in a segmented run. Most worlds have quests where it is faster to S&Q in the middle of a level and revisit it later than doing it all in one go. As an example it takes about the same amount of time to S&Q after beating Mr. Patch and just warp back to Witchyworld from Jinjo Village later than actually leaving the tent. And it is way faster to S&Q after powering the Saucer of Peril with Mumbo than to get him back to his skull (100%). And you would already need to end one of the segments including Witchyworld in Terrydactyland to feed to Oogle Boogle's, so you need at least 3 Witchyworld segments in any case to get the fastest time.
It would be cool to be able to skip the boulder to Wasteland, but I personally don't see it as a big issue in a segmented run.

Pjii

2012-10-30 12:27:29 pm

Quote from Jacky Durand:

As an example it takes about the same amount of time to S&Q after beating Mr. Patch and just warp back to Witchyworld from Jinjo Village later than actually leaving the tent.

Actually, that's not true. It takes 13 (in-game) seconds to run out of the tent and 27~ (in-game) seconds to get back from JV. Now here's an even better method that should be used in segmented runs (even SS/RTA) - grab the Jiggy while flying and then Beak Bomb out. With that it's only 7 seconds to get out of the tent. Also, not everyone is talking about segmented runs, and backtracking in SS or RTA could be bad, especially in any%.

Jacky Durand

2012-10-30 12:48:52 pm

Quote from Pjii:

Quote from Jacky Durand:

As an example it takes about the same amount of time to S&Q after beating Mr. Patch and just warp back to Witchyworld from Jinjo Village later than actually leaving the tent.

Actually, that's not true. It takes 13 (in-game) seconds to run out of the tent and 27~ (in-game) seconds to get back from JV. Now here's an even better method that should be used in segmented runs (even SS/RTA) - grab the Jiggy while flying and then Beak Bomb out. With that it's only 7 seconds to get out of the tent. Also, not everyone is talking about segmented runs, and backtracking in SS or RTA could be bad, especially in any%.

Well, maybe I timed it for getting to the nearest warp pad after Mr. Patch as I couldn't find any obvious places to go afterwards (at that time, two years ago). Still it doesn't take much away from my point as this was just the first example I came to think of. You could claim the same about a lot of the other Jiggys.
Yeah, a lot of people talk about the game in general, but I figured only your segmented run was somehow in progress.

[quote="Pjii"][quote="Jacky Durand"]As an example it takes about the same amount of time to S&Q after beating Mr. Patch and just warp back to Witchyworld from Jinjo Village later than actually leaving the tent. [/quote]

Actually, that's not true. It takes 13 (in-game) seconds to run out of the tent and 27~ (in-game) seconds to get back from JV. Now here's an even better method that should be used in segmented runs (even SS/RTA) - grab the Jiggy while flying and then Beak Bomb out. With that it's only 7 seconds to get out of the tent. Also, not everyone is talking about segmented runs, and backtracking in SS or RTA could be bad, especially in any%.[/quote]

Well, maybe I timed it for getting to the nearest warp pad after Mr. Patch as I couldn't find any obvious places to go afterwards (at that time, two years ago). Still it doesn't take much away from my point as this was just the first example I came to think of. You could claim the same about a lot of the other Jiggys.
Yeah, a lot of people talk about the game in general, but I figured only your segmented run was somehow in progress.

Pjii

2012-10-30 01:04:15 pm

No problem, I know you just used it as an example. I just state fact as facts. In regards to my segmented run, I've actually put it on hold because of Cronikeys. I'm no glitch hunter, so I'll just have to wait until she's satisfied with her findings. It all serves the purpose of a better run, so it's no big deal.

Gogo, Cronikeys! ^_^

Jacky Durand

Edit history:

Jacky Durand: 2012-10-30 01:37:13 pm

2012-10-30 01:36:40 pm

I agree, no use in rushing into a run when discoveries are still to be made. I would have made the same decision if I were still into this game and had the NTSC-version.
Good luck with the planning when the time comes! Looking forward to read about the progress!

Cronikeys

2012-10-31 06:15:26 am

Oogle Boogle Cave without Big T-Rex

Alternate Method for Grunty Industries Early

Pjii

2012-10-31 06:16:15 am

Yay~ ^_^

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-10-31 09:55:00 am

2012-10-31 09:52:46 am

<(^_^)>

WHAT. ON EARTH. OMG. DAT T-REX SKIP.

so are there any other barriers that come to mind, ones that are blocked by an NPC? There's conga from big top in WW, but I'm pretty sure that one works differently, and collecting the 4 tickets really is not a big deal. I can't think of any other places where that'd be applicable (as in, blow up banjo at the same time that a CKE mine enters a room)

One idea could be... you know the gate in mayahem temple's coliseum that leads to hailfire peaks? IIRC it's a gate with a switch on the other end. If you can clip a CKE mine through it and have banjo grenade himself as it enters hailfire peaks...

Not sure if that'd be that useful to be honest, since you can't even learn the moves there at the time, and won't have CKE anyways on your first visit (probably). But it'd be pretty cool.

EDIT: Maybe... just MAYBE you can use that same technique to get past the boulder in the mouse's prison in MT to get into GGM early? Again, not sure how useful it'd be, but it's a shot. At least you can get almost 20 jiggies before having to go back to unlock worlds, meaning unlocking JRL in addition to GGM and WW.

WHAT. ON EARTH. OMG. DAT T-REX SKIP.

so are there any other barriers that come to mind, ones that are blocked by an NPC? There's conga from big top in WW, but I'm pretty sure that one works differently, and collecting the 4 tickets really is not a big deal. I can't think of any other places where that'd be applicable (as in, blow up banjo at the same time that a CKE mine enters a room)

One idea could be... you know the gate in mayahem temple's coliseum that leads to hailfire peaks? IIRC it's a gate with a switch on the other end. If you can clip a CKE mine through it and have banjo grenade himself as it enters hailfire peaks...

Not sure if that'd be that useful to be honest, since you can't even learn the moves there at the time, and won't have CKE anyways on your first visit (probably). But it'd be pretty cool.

EDIT: Maybe... just MAYBE you can use that same technique to get past the boulder in the mouse's prison in MT to get into GGM early? Again, not sure how useful it'd be, but it's a shot. At least you can get almost 20 jiggies before having to go back to unlock worlds, meaning unlocking JRL in addition to GGM and WW.

Pjii

2012-10-31 10:20:15 am

Clockworks can't go between levels; they explode when touching the loading zone. The 2 areas you mentioned are entrances to other levels, so this kind of skip won't work there.

kirbymastah

2012-10-31 10:27:30 am

<(^_^)>

Ah, didn't know that <_< bummer

Worn_Traveler

2012-10-31 10:57:35 am

Formerly known as Skullboy

Love the T-rex skip. Keep up the great work!

Cronikeys

2012-10-31 03:55:11 pm

Quality Control Early in Grunty Industries:

This skips getting a battery.

Cronikeys

2012-11-01 11:54:26 am

Pjii and I found a way to get the cheese wedge jiggy without Banjo solo:

PJ

2012-11-01 04:10:42 pm

Is PJ

Cool!

KlydeStorm

Edit history:

KlydeStorm: 2012-11-08 06:05:17 pm

2012-11-08 12:06:42 pm

The glitch Cronikeys found about skewing your angle also skews your hitbox, which means you can grab things through walls with moves that normally wouldn't reach before. ~~The first one shown is probably the only one that has a use though,~~ since the other two shown need Breegull Bash.

I think Breegull Bash is the only move that goes further than Taxi Pack, which is unfortunate.

Edit: A trick I was unaware of at the time makes you able to get that Jinjo shown in the first clip with Banjo+Kazooie, so disregard that. The video is mostly for documentation purposes now.

Cronikeys

2012-11-08 12:17:18 pm

I found a technique called "Egg Barge" where you mash B (to beak barge) after shooting an egg. It goes as far as Taxi Pack.

Also, cool that this works with hitboxes =) I should have tested it more hehe

Pjii

2012-11-08 12:40:17 pm

As Cronikeys mentioned, Egg Barge allows you to get all of the items that Taxi Grab can get, except the Cheato Page in Pawno's. The Jinjo on the side of Grunty Industries and the Cheato Page in HFP are 2 items that can easily be collected with it. Taxi Grab and Egg Barge still can't get the other items shown in that video.

While I'm posting I'd like to mention something that was brought to my attention yesterday. Clockwork warps (GI early through the front window, for example) CAN be done on PAL N64 and XBLA. Luisatwo got it to work on PAL; I personally got it to work on XBLA. The difference between PAL and XBLA compared to NTSC is that the timing for it is much tighter. Basically you have to get hit very late for it to work, making it much harder to do on PAL/XBLA. But yeah, Clockwork warping is not an NTSC-only trick.

KlydeStorm

Edit history:

KlydeStorm: 2012-11-08 05:45:37 pm

KlydeStorm: 2012-11-08 01:35:40 pm

KlydeStorm: 2012-11-08 01:04:48 pm

KlydeStorm: 2012-11-08 12:55:09 pm

KlydeStorm: 2012-11-08 12:53:22 pm

KlydeStorm: 2012-11-08 12:51:14 pm

KlydeStorm: 2012-11-08 12:50:42 pm

2012-11-08 12:45:39 pm

Quote from Pjii:

As Cronikeys mentioned, Egg Barge allows you to get all of the items that Taxi Grab can get, except the Cheato Page in Pawno's. The Jinjo on the side of Grunty Industries and the Cheato Page in HFP are 2 items that can easily be collected with it. Taxi Grab and Egg Barge still can't get the other items shown in that video.

The only two things Egg Barge can get are the Cheato Page inside TDL mountain and the Cheato Page in HFP Lava Side behind the bars. I've tested all the others before (and again just now) and couldn't get any of them to work. If they're working for you, they must be pretty precise.

Okay, with Cronikey's insight (mashing B after you shoot an egg), I tried the window outside GI and I'm wrong, it worked. Still, that's obscure and was unmentioned in the forums during a discussion that took place shortly before this post string. I wish people should share things on the forum more often so there aren't misunderstandings like this.

Anyways, I think you should make a video of all the places it works. There's a list I had posted some pages back of all the places Taxi Grab worked.

[quote="Pjii"]As Cronikeys mentioned, Egg Barge allows you to get all of the items that Taxi Grab can get, except the Cheato Page in Pawno's. The Jinjo on the side of Grunty Industries and the Cheato Page in HFP are 2 items that can easily be collected with it. Taxi Grab and Egg Barge still can't get the other items shown in that video.[/quote]

[s]The only two things Egg Barge can get are the Cheato Page inside TDL mountain and the Cheato Page in HFP Lava Side behind the bars. I've tested all the others before (and again just now) and couldn't get any of them to work. If they're working for you, they must be pretty precise.[/s]

Okay, with Cronikey's insight (mashing B after you shoot an egg), I tried the window outside GI and I'm wrong, it worked. Still, that's obscure and was unmentioned in the forums during a discussion that took place shortly before this post string. I wish people should share things on the forum more often so there aren't misunderstandings like this.

Anyways, I think you should make a video of all the places it works. There's a list I had posted some pages back of all the places Taxi Grab worked.

Cronikeys

2012-11-08 01:15:10 pm

I'll try to be better about posting things to the SDA thread from now on. I also have two planned "compilation" videos for other glitches I've found, so I'll make that one as well.

Anyway, here's the original tilted model after superslide glitch I found:

Here's a way to get the Jinjo in the GGM jail with Clockwork Eggs (skipping detonator):

Here's a way to open the UFO door to Witchyworld from the GGM side:

Here's a way to free Canary Mary with Clockwork Kazooie Eggs (this was already known by Pjii and timed to be slower, but it was worth documenting imo):

Here are some interesting softlocks:

known maybe? wasn't documented

found by me on accident

...and last but not least, here's a way to get the Mega Glowbo without the ice key:

It's possible to get the Ice Train jiggy this way with TAS, but it's way too hard for realtime runs. This video was done in realtime, though.

More videos in the coming days... there's some stuff I haven't recorded yet.

I'll try to be better about posting things to the SDA thread from now on. I also have two planned "compilation" videos for other glitches I've found, so I'll make that one as well.

Anyway, here's the original tilted model after superslide glitch I found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVfPHaAHJGs

Here's a way to get the Jinjo in the GGM jail with Clockwork Eggs (skipping detonator):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXyf0vB_EGk

Here's a way to open the UFO door to Witchyworld from the GGM side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gLj7y8_wsQ

Here's a way to free Canary Mary with Clockwork Kazooie Eggs (this was already known by Pjii and timed to be slower, but it was worth documenting imo):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s_0lO0beYA

Here are some interesting softlocks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FD0DgvLLBE
known maybe? wasn't documented

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpL9nocy8Hs
found by me on accident

...and last but not least, here's a way to get the Mega Glowbo without the ice key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC9SCdpYxk0
It's possible to get the Ice Train jiggy this way with TAS, but it's way too hard for realtime runs. This video was done in realtime, though.

More videos in the coming days... there's some stuff I haven't recorded yet.

Cronikeys

Edit history:

Cronikeys: 2012-11-08 02:17:44 pm

2012-11-08 02:14:11 pm

I just found this new glitch:

This saves a significant amount of time in 100% and may also influence any% runs of Banjo-Tooie. This allows you to skip freeing Gobi, skip ground pounding Gobi, and skip riding the train to the Ice Side train station.

It works by shooting a Clockwork Kazooie Egg out of bounds during the ground shaking animation from Chilly Willy's Ice Balls. Go all the way into the entryway of the igloo without touching the loading zone, walk up against the right wall, aim down, and fire at the correct time. With practice, this seems doable in a speedrun!

PJ

2012-11-08 03:25:03 pm

Is PJ

Wow. :O

kirbymastah

2012-11-08 03:32:18 pm

<(^_^)>

Cronikeys, you NEED to find a way to get those clockwork kazooie eggs early! (aka early wasteland)

though... you still need a good chunk of notes to learn it... <_<

Also, I don't really think skipping dynamite completely is possible for 100%, though it's very nice to be able to not have to use it as much. IIRC freeing the saucer from GGM is triggered by blowing up the rocks via dynamite, so... <_<

Cronikeys

2012-11-08 03:35:48 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

Also, I don't really think skipping dynamite completely is possible for 100%, though it's very nice to be able to not have to use it as much. IIRC freeing the saucer from GGM is triggered by blowing up the rocks via dynamite, so... <_<

Detonator will probably never be skipped in 100%, but it can be skipped now in any% easily. I'll leave it up to the routers (Pjii lol) to figure out how exactly the Clockworks instead of Detonator stuff will be implemented in the runs.