Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon (N64)

Edit history:

Maxml: 2007-07-31 12:19:09 pm

2007-07-31 12:18:14 pm

Cool !
I saw the previous Goemon run and even if I liked it, there was a lot of mistakes in it. It's good to see a correct improvement of it ^^.

I start my summer job tomorow so I can't be a verifier :/.
That make me think...how can we become a verifier ?

SuperCoolAl

2007-08-01 06:14:47 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

You PM mikwuyma.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-08 08:32:47 pm

@_@

Yay, I love reviving old topics.

Does anybody know what happened to this? He said he sent the DVD's in for encoding yet the run has never surfaced on the site. I tried PM'ing FinalMinuet but it looks like he's no longer active on the forums, as I've yet to receive a reply.

Assuming there was some sort of problem and the run will not eventually be posted for whatever reason, I'm considering starting this back up again and doing a couple runs of it myself. First I plan to improve the current 100% (and obviously I hope to beat FinalMinuet's time as well) and then I'm wanting to try a single-segment any%.

For the any% I think it's very clear that the fastest way to get through the game would be to avoid all fortune dolls. This would mean it would also be a low% run, but I'm pretty sure it's the fastest way. Right now it's secondary to my planning of the 100% though, and will be done after the 100% is completed.

The 100% has taken some planning, and I've come up with a rough sketch of what the route would look like. I'll post it under a spoiler tag and then comment on it at the end.

The official definitions thread defines 100% for this game as all fortune dolls, and only all fortune dolls. Assuming I don't need to detour to get the Meat-Saw hammer, those are all I need to account for. If you couldn't guess, the route revolves mostly around fortune doll order, so obviously the numbers are a fortune doll (with a brief description underneath) and the asterisk (*) lines are general notes.

---SEGMENT 1---

1. Kai Highway
in the northeastern corner

2. Mt. Fugi
on the 1st level; head past the ladder leading to the 2nd level

*Stop by Kai's Coffee Shop for Dragon point later

3. Oedo Town (Gate to Oedo Castle - North Gate)
on a wooden platform to the left; accessible via the star blocks

4. Oedo Castle: First Floor
in the 3rd room of the castle across from Mr. Elly Fant

5. Oedo Castle: Second Floor
in the 2nd room, take the unlocked door to the left

6. Oedo Castle: Third Floor
in plain sight

*Beat Congo and go back

7. Oedo Castle: Second Floor
across the gap where the hand used to be

*Deny save
*Farm to around 1080 Ryu, then save outside (to keep the farming from having to be done repeatedly with segment 2 fails)

---SEGMENT 2---

*Swim back to get fortune doll

8. Oedo Town (Gate to Mushashi - South Gate)
on a wooden platform in the river

*Skip fortune doll for now
*Do Impact battle

---SEGMENT 3---

*Do Zazen Town
*Turtle Shell Shrine pushing left

9. Yamato (Turtle Stone Shrine)
push left

*Pushing right

10. Yamato (Yamato Shrine)
climb to the top

11. Yamato (Yamato Shrine)
jump from peak fortune doll platform directly onto it

*Pushing down

12. Kii-Awaji Island
at the top of the rocks

13. Kii-Awaji Island
jump off the side of the cliff

*Dragon stuff

14. Vine Bridge
fall through the bridge onto the platform

15. Iyo 2 (Hot Springs)
deviate after using Mini-Ebisu and grab it jumping through the red grate thing and falling down

---SEGMENT 4---

16. Ghost Toys Castle: 1st Floor
atop the large head in the wall of the 4th room

17. -GOLD-
Ghost Toys Castle: 1st Floor
walk across the tightrope in 6th main room

18. Ghost Toys Castle: 1st Floor
behind the gate in the 1st room

19. Ghost Toys Castle: 2nd Floor
in the large room, can't miss it

---SEGMENT 5---

*Getting batteries for Sasuke

20. Chukogu Region: Inaba Dune
in the oasis in the south-eastern corner of the desert

*Sasuke joins
*Skip Bizen / Aki-Nagato fortune dolls for now
*Fall right towards Hagi and go to FTC through Akiyoshidai

---SEGMENT 6---

21. Festival Temple Castle: South Area
climb up ladder in first floating platform room, traverse walkway

22. -GOLD-
Festival Temple Castle: East Area
jump over the side after doing the burning platform room and beginning to backtrack

23. Festival Temple Castle: North Area
fish kite area at the top on the platform

---SEGMENT 7---

*Go to Oedo Town, train Goemon

24. Mushashi
underneath the red grate

25. Tunnel to Northeast 2
in plain sight at the north end of the tunnel, on the lower level

26. -GOLD-
Waterfall of Kegon
use Yae's mermaid magic to go through cavern

27. Uzen: Tunnel
jump down and to the left on the way back

28. Japan Sea
southwestern corner on the sea floor

*Do Gourmet Sub

---SEGMENT 8---

*Talk to Benkei

29. Zazen Town
hit the bamboo in the connecting area pond between two main areas

*Talk to Kihachi, Priest, train Sasuke
*Get Bizen / Aki-Nagato dolls now since I'm already there with Sasuke

30. -GOLD-
Chukogu Region: Bizen
behind a cracked door

31. Chukogu Region: Bizen
behind a cracked door

32. Chukogu Region: Aki-Nagato
along the ledge using Mini-Ebisu

33. Chukogu Region: Aki-Nagato
red gate with floating platform

*Flute back to Zazen
*Get Cucumber from priest's son, get Miracle item to prevent having to flute back to Zazen again later

34. Zazen Town
west of Benkei's bridge on elevated land area

35. Yamato
use Yae's mermaid powers to enter cave in the water

*Flute to FTC
*Save outside due to number of things that could go wrong till final segment

---SEGMENT 9---

*More fortune doll collecting

36. Festival Temple Castle: West Area
climb ladder where silver locked door was previously, go across rooftops and super jump

37. Festival Temple Castle: West Area
get on railing in Kunai of Severe Cold room and super jump up to roof

*Flute to GTC

38. Ghost Toys Castle: Basement
use Yae's mermaid power to get it in the enclosed area underwater

39. Folkypoke Village (Grain Fields)
mini-ebisu under hay near door

*Flute to Festival Village

40. Mutsu: Festival Village (Shopping District)
use Yae's mermaid powers in the pond to get to the other side of the wall through cavern

*Outer Space, 18 hearts

---SEGMENT 10---

41. Gorgeous Music Castle: 1st Floor
room with the contracting fans, on platform to the left

42. Gorgeous Music Castle: 1st Floor
in plain view in room after the previous doll

43. Gorgeous Music Castle: 1st Floor
jump onto red ledge and super jump; in room with Mr. Arrow

44. -GOLD-
Gorgeous Music Castle: 1st Floor
jump through Dancin's portrait

45. Gorgeous Music Castle: Basement
at the end of a sidepath in basement near the end

---END GAME---

Now, a couple things I can think of off the top of my head. First off, obviously I'm waiting to get the Mushasi fortune doll after I get Goemon's Sudden Impact, reason being that it's more out of the way to get it when you first leave Oedo town, and the block you need to push to reach Tunnel to the Northeast is right next to the fortune doll the second time around.

Second, I'm really debating on where to put the four Bizen/Aki-Nagato fortune dolls. Right now I'm planning to get them immediately after training Sasuke, since I'm already out there WITH Sasuke so I can grab them by using his Bombs conveniently. I think it's faster to do it there than it is when heading to Festival Temple Castle. Sure Aki-Nagato will get you there eventually, but it's much faster to go directly to the right after grabbing the second battery and enter Hagi from there instead of making the long side trip. Also right after that collection I'm fluting back to Zazen town (faster than just walking back methinks, but it may require some testing... especially since I need to be in the second main area and the flute puts you outside of the first.) and finish up my errands there: grab the Cucumber, give it to Kihachi, go through to the first area and grab the doll in the screen next to Benkei's bridge, then go back to the bridge and go to Yamato to get its fortune doll. It's too bad the ladder to get to Duck Creek's second area exit is at the FAR end next to the waterfall or it could be much smoother. Either way it's faster than fluting back later I think. The animation is kind of lengthy.

Also I tried to make the route as fluid as possible, but I still required a sub-section of fortune doll collecting before heading to Gorgeous Musical Castle. Luckily though it only encompasses three areas.

One last thing, I found farming to 1080 ryo to be enough, I usually have just enough (read: 10-20 left over) by the end of the game, since I pick some up from enemies that are in my way. If I have extra pretty much every time, I'll consider using Goemon's ryo attack for things like the pool balls in Ghost Toys Castle or maybe the GTC boss itself (Medal of Flames just might do more damage per hit, and your attack rate on him is severely limited anyway). I just don't want to end up short when it comes time to buy the Cucumber, but I don't want to spend too much time farming it either.

Anyone who has anything they'd like to suggest and/or correct me on, feel free to do so... or you can just drop off some encouragement and let me know if you're interested in seeing it. Grin

It's too bad I don't have a way to really test too much of it out right now though. I had to order a controller pak just so I could save this game. Kind of irritating.

Yay, I love reviving old topics.

Does anybody know what happened to this? He said he sent the DVD's in for encoding yet the run has never surfaced on the site. I tried PM'ing FinalMinuet but it looks like he's no longer active on the forums, as I've yet to receive a reply.

Assuming there was some sort of problem and the run will not eventually be posted for whatever reason, I'm considering starting this back up again and doing a couple runs of it myself. First I plan to improve the current 100% (and obviously I hope to beat FinalMinuet's time as well) and then I'm wanting to try a single-segment any%.

For the any% I think it's very clear that the fastest way to get through the game would be to avoid all fortune dolls. This would mean it would also be a low% run, but I'm pretty sure it's the fastest way. Right now it's secondary to my planning of the 100% though, and will be done after the 100% is completed.

The 100% has taken some planning, and I've come up with a rough sketch of what the route would look like. I'll post it under a spoiler tag and then comment on it at the end.

The official definitions thread defines 100% for this game as all fortune dolls, and only all fortune dolls. Assuming I don't need to detour to get the Meat-Saw hammer, those are all I need to account for. If you couldn't guess, the route revolves mostly around fortune doll order, so obviously the numbers are a fortune doll (with a brief description underneath) and the asterisk (*) lines are general notes.

[spoiler]---SEGMENT 1---

1. Kai Highway
      in the northeastern corner

2. Mt. Fugi
      on the 1st level; head past the ladder leading to the 2nd level

*Stop by Kai's Coffee Shop for Dragon point later

3. Oedo Town (Gate to Oedo Castle - North Gate)
      on a wooden platform to the left; accessible via the star blocks

4. Oedo Castle: First Floor
      in the 3rd room of the castle across from Mr. Elly Fant

5. Oedo Castle: Second Floor
      in the 2nd room, take the unlocked door to the left

6. Oedo Castle: Third Floor
      in plain sight

*Beat Congo and go back

7. Oedo Castle: Second Floor
      across the gap where the hand used to be

*Deny save
*Farm to around 1080 Ryu, then save outside (to keep the farming from having to be done repeatedly with segment 2 fails)

---SEGMENT 2---

*Swim back to get fortune doll

8. Oedo Town (Gate to Mushashi - South Gate)
      on a wooden platform in the river

*Skip fortune doll for now
*Do Impact battle

---SEGMENT 3---

*Do Zazen Town
*Turtle Shell Shrine pushing left

9. Yamato (Turtle Stone Shrine)
      push left

*Pushing right

10. Yamato (Yamato Shrine)
      climb to the top

11. Yamato (Yamato Shrine)
      jump from peak fortune doll platform directly onto it

*Pushing down

12. Kii-Awaji Island
      at the top of the rocks

13. Kii-Awaji Island
      jump off the side of the cliff

*Dragon stuff

14. Vine Bridge
      fall through the bridge onto the platform

15. Iyo 2 (Hot Springs)
      deviate after using Mini-Ebisu and grab it jumping through the red grate thing and falling down

---SEGMENT 4---

16. Ghost Toys Castle: 1st Floor
      atop the large head in the wall of the 4th room

17. -GOLD-
     Ghost Toys Castle: 1st Floor
      walk across the tightrope in 6th main room

18. Ghost Toys Castle: 1st Floor
      behind the gate in the 1st room

19. Ghost Toys Castle: 2nd Floor
      in the large room, can't miss it

---SEGMENT 5---

*Getting batteries for Sasuke

20. Chukogu Region: Inaba Dune
      in the oasis in the south-eastern corner of the desert

*Sasuke joins
*Skip Bizen / Aki-Nagato fortune dolls for now
*Fall right towards Hagi and go to FTC through Akiyoshidai

---SEGMENT 6---

21. Festival Temple Castle: South Area
      climb up ladder in first floating platform room, traverse walkway

22. -GOLD-
     Festival Temple Castle: East Area
      jump over the side after doing the burning platform room and beginning to backtrack

23. Festival Temple Castle: North Area
      fish kite area at the top on the platform

---SEGMENT 7---

*Go to Oedo Town, train Goemon

24. Mushashi
      underneath the red grate

25. Tunnel to Northeast 2
      in plain sight at the north end of the tunnel, on the lower level

26. -GOLD-
     Waterfall of Kegon
      use Yae's mermaid magic to go through cavern

27. Uzen: Tunnel
      jump down and to the left on the way back

28. Japan Sea
      southwestern corner on the sea floor

*Do Gourmet Sub

---SEGMENT 8---

*Talk to Benkei

29. Zazen Town
      hit the bamboo in the connecting area pond between two main areas

*Talk to Kihachi, Priest, train Sasuke
*Get Bizen / Aki-Nagato dolls now since I'm already there with Sasuke

30. -GOLD-
     Chukogu Region: Bizen
      behind a cracked door

31. Chukogu Region: Bizen
      behind a cracked door

32. Chukogu Region: Aki-Nagato
      along the ledge using Mini-Ebisu

33. Chukogu Region: Aki-Nagato
      red gate with floating platform

*Flute back to Zazen
*Get Cucumber from priest's son, get Miracle item to prevent having to flute back to Zazen again later

34. Zazen Town
      west of Benkei's bridge on elevated land area

35. Yamato
      use Yae's mermaid powers to enter cave in the water

*Flute to FTC
*Save outside due to number of things that could go wrong till final segment

---SEGMENT 9---

*More fortune doll collecting

36. Festival Temple Castle: West Area
      climb ladder where silver locked door was previously, go across rooftops and super jump

37. Festival Temple Castle: West Area
      get on railing in Kunai of Severe Cold room and super jump up to roof

*Flute to GTC

38. Ghost Toys Castle: Basement
      use Yae's mermaid power to get it in the enclosed area underwater

39. Folkypoke Village (Grain Fields)
      mini-ebisu under hay near door

*Flute to Festival Village

40. Mutsu: Festival Village (Shopping District)
      use Yae's mermaid powers in the pond to get to the other side of the wall through cavern

*Outer Space, 18 hearts

---SEGMENT 10---

41. Gorgeous Music Castle: 1st Floor
      room with the contracting fans, on platform to the left

42. Gorgeous Music Castle: 1st Floor
      in plain view in room after the previous doll

43. Gorgeous Music Castle: 1st Floor
      jump onto red ledge and super jump; in room with Mr. Arrow

44. -GOLD-
    Gorgeous Music Castle: 1st Floor
      jump through Dancin's portrait

45. Gorgeous Music Castle: Basement
      at the end of a sidepath in basement near the end

---END GAME---[/spoiler]

Now, a couple things I can think of off the top of my head. First off, obviously I'm waiting to get the Mushasi fortune doll after I get Goemon's Sudden Impact, reason being that it's more out of the way to get it when you first leave Oedo town, and the block you need to push to reach Tunnel to the Northeast is right next to the fortune doll the second time around.

Second, I'm really debating on where to put the four Bizen/Aki-Nagato fortune dolls. Right now I'm planning to get them immediately after training Sasuke, since I'm already out there WITH Sasuke so I can grab them by using his Bombs conveniently. I think it's faster to do it there than it is when heading to Festival Temple Castle. Sure Aki-Nagato will get you there eventually, but it's much faster to go directly to the right after grabbing the second battery and enter Hagi from there instead of making the long side trip. Also right after that collection I'm fluting back to Zazen town (faster than just walking back methinks, but it may require some testing... especially since I need to be in the second main area and the flute puts you outside of the first.) and finish up my errands there: grab the Cucumber, give it to Kihachi, go through to the first area and grab the doll in the screen next to Benkei's bridge, then go back to the bridge and go to Yamato to get its fortune doll. It's too bad the ladder to get to Duck Creek's second area exit is at the FAR end next to the waterfall or it could be much smoother. Either way it's faster than fluting back later I think. The animation is kind of lengthy.

Also I tried to make the route as fluid as possible, but I still required a sub-section of fortune doll collecting before heading to Gorgeous Musical Castle. Luckily though it only encompasses three areas.

One last thing, I found farming to 1080 ryo to be enough, I usually have just enough (read: 10-20 left over) by the end of the game, since I pick some up from enemies that are in my way. If I have extra pretty much every time, I'll consider using Goemon's ryo attack for things like the pool balls in Ghost Toys Castle or maybe the GTC boss itself (Medal of Flames just might do more damage per hit, and your attack rate on him is severely limited anyway). I just don't want to end up short when it comes time to buy the Cucumber, but I don't want to spend too much time farming it either.

Anyone who has anything they'd like to suggest and/or correct me on, feel free to do so... or you can just drop off some encouragement and let me know if you're interested in seeing it. ;D

It's too bad I don't have a way to really test too much of it out right now though. I had to order a controller pak just so I could save this game. Kind of irritating.

nate

2008-10-09 09:27:37 am

one dvd was unreadable. he said he was going to get me another copy but never did. i tried to use brasso on the disc but it didn't work. probably the data was never on the disc in the first place. if it would be helpful i can upload what exists of the run in crap quality.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-09 10:56:20 am

@_@

I see. Yeah, that would actually be quite helpful; it would let me get some ideas and maybe see some things I didn't think of when planning this the first time through. Thanks.

NoiseCrash

Edit history:

NoiseCrash: 2008-10-10 01:36:36 am

2008-10-10 01:16:57 am

@_@

Awh, no one's interested? Sad

Oh well, I'm gonna do it regardless just because I want to.

Pardon me if my wording sucks, it's 3:15 in the morning and I never think straight at this time of night.

My controller pak came in yesterday, and I've been sitting down trying to get an estimated time for my plan now that I can actually save and everything. I'm gonna add some more segments here and there as there are more save points that I originally thought. Strange how more save points pop up once you gain the ability to save, eh? Regardless, I just got the last hit on D'etoile in just a few minutes ago. Referencing from the last save point and rounding up after I get how many minutes the last segment is, the time that I get is...

2:57. Shocked

I got sub-3 hours with a rough sketch of a plan, as well as sub-par gameplay, and the time will only go down from here. And if anything the game clock has been known to add time onto the actual time.

I felt pretty comfortable with the majority of my fortune doll route. The Bizen/Aki-nagato four that I was debating over fit nicely where I put them in the route, as it doesn't take as long to get through Zazen town as I thought it did, and the cliffside fortune doll is just out of the way of everything, meaning there's no point in trying to get it on the way to Hagi or try to walk back to Zazen town from there.

Medal of Flames does not do more damage to the Ghost Toys Castle boss, and you can get two hits on him with a weapon every time he becomes vulnerable; you can usually only get one in with ryo, it's hard to time.

There are numerous other little speed tips here and there, but none are extremely noteworthy. I'll look over this route a few more times and do some more testing (this was basically to get an original time estimate) and see where it goes from here.

Awh, no one's interested? :(

Oh well, I'm gonna do it regardless just because I want to.

Pardon me if my wording sucks, it's 3:15 in the morning and I never think straight at this time of night.

My controller pak came in yesterday, and I've been sitting down trying to get an estimated time for my plan now that I can actually save and everything. I'm gonna add some more segments here and there as there are more save points that I originally thought. Strange how more save points pop up once you gain the ability to save, eh? Regardless, I just got the last hit on D'etoile in just a few minutes ago. Referencing from the last save point and rounding up after I get how many minutes the last segment is, the time that I get is...

2:57. :o

I got sub-3 hours with a rough sketch of a plan, as well as sub-par gameplay, and the time will only go down from here. And if anything the game clock has been known to add time onto the actual time.

I felt pretty comfortable with the majority of my fortune doll route. The Bizen/Aki-nagato four that I was debating over fit nicely where I put them in the route, as it doesn't take as long to get through Zazen town as I thought it did, and the cliffside fortune doll is just out of the way of everything, meaning there's no point in trying to get it on the way to Hagi or try to walk back to Zazen town from there.

Medal of Flames does not do more damage to the Ghost Toys Castle boss, and you can get two hits on him with a weapon every time he becomes vulnerable; you can usually only get one in with ryo, it's hard to time.

There are numerous other little speed tips here and there, but none are extremely noteworthy. I'll look over this route a few more times and do some more testing (this was basically to get an original time estimate) and see where it goes from here.

getter77

2008-10-10 04:44:30 am

100% runs=great to watch

I'll always be interested in seeing a run of a Goemon game, as are many others here surely. Best of luck with wrangling it all out. 8)

ad3n

2008-10-10 12:49:08 pm

rawr

Haven't played this game in quite a long time, but man did it ever suck up hours of my life.

I'm interested. Good luck on breaking the 3h mark.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-10 01:19:20 pm

@_@

I guessed there actually was some interest, but I figured dangling out a phrase like "No one's interested" would spark a few replies. Wink

Sub-3 hours is definite, as I made at least a few minutes worth of mistakes in testing, but accepted it simply because I needed to see where my route stood as far as time goes. I honestly was suprised that I broke the 3 hour mark with it, but excited at the same time.

Before the recording actually starts I'll need to do at least one more test to iron out anything that I feel could be a little faster, and work a little bit on my Impact Boss execution. A trick I just thought of that might work is after doing the Reel-in, Super Punch + Kick combo, I could repatedly shoot Ryo as fast as I can to charge up my Lasermouth meter more. If I can shoot fast enough and inbetween every combo I may be able to get two Lasermouths in, speeding things up a little more. It obviously wouldn't help against Balberra (I think that's how it's spelled anyway) since you have to shoot Ryo at it anyway to destroy all its parts, and it probably won't help against D'etoile due to his insanely fast recovery time after being "knocked down." But against the first two, it should help if it works the way I'm thinking. I'll try it.

I need to work on Congo a little bit too, I can do it much faster than the current run already but it's not as consistent as I'd like it to be. To be more specific I speed it up by hitting it with the chain pipe as it starts spinning around shooting lasers. You can usually hit it 2 to 3 times before it goes out of reach, and as a result you'll make him start spinning around again before he even finishes leaning back to breathe fire. GTC and FTC bosses aren't that bad; GTC is good as long as you hit him twice before he attacks and becomes invulnerable. FTC boss obviously can't be sped up, as you have to wait for the red plates to be thrown at you.

I'm really excited to be working on this. It should prove to be rather fun. Smiley

I guessed there actually was some interest, but I figured dangling out a phrase like "No one's interested" would spark a few replies. ;)

Sub-3 hours is [b]definite[/b], as I made at least a few minutes worth of mistakes in testing, but accepted it simply because I needed to see where my route stood as far as time goes. I honestly was suprised that I broke the 3 hour mark with it, but excited at the same time.

Before the recording actually starts I'll need to do at least one more test to iron out anything that I feel could be a little faster, and work a little bit on my Impact Boss execution. A trick I just thought of that might work is after doing the Reel-in, Super Punch + Kick combo, I could repatedly shoot Ryo as fast as I can to charge up my Lasermouth meter more. If I can shoot fast enough and inbetween every combo I may be able to get two Lasermouths in, speeding things up a little more. It obviously wouldn't help against Balberra (I think that's how it's spelled anyway) since you have to shoot Ryo at it anyway to destroy all its parts, and it probably won't help against D'etoile due to his insanely fast recovery time after being "knocked down." But against the first two, it should help if it works the way I'm thinking. I'll try it.

I need to work on Congo a little bit too, I can do it much faster than the current run already but it's not as consistent as I'd like it to be. To be more specific I speed it up by hitting it with the chain pipe as it starts spinning around shooting lasers. You can usually hit it 2 to 3 times before it goes out of reach, and as a result you'll make him start spinning around again before he even finishes leaning back to breathe fire. GTC and FTC bosses aren't that bad; GTC is good as long as you hit him twice before he attacks and becomes invulnerable. FTC boss obviously can't be sped up, as you have to wait for the red plates to be thrown at you.

I'm really excited to be working on this. It should prove to be rather fun. :)

nate

2008-10-10 01:32:13 pm

partial old run coming later today.

another segment went missing in the ~18 months since it was submitted so now it's just segs 1-6 and 8 while there were once 9 afaik.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-10 01:33:00 pm

@_@

Sounds good.

nate

2008-10-10 01:34:43 pm

actually you can see it going up now: http://nate.quandra.org/goemon/

be sure to make sure the timestamp has stopped changing before you download a segment so it's not incomplete.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-10 01:39:18 pm

@_@

Awesome, thanks a bunch.

Segment 9 would've just been the final dungeon anyway which basically already has a set plan.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-10 05:36:50 pm

@_@

Okay, just finished watching what exists of the previous improvement run, and I only saw a few things that I liked over my route.

First, I didn't even think about ignoring the fortune doll through the grates right before Festival Temple Castle and getting it afterward, as you can drop straight through the second gap when heading out and land almost right on top of it. Much quicker than deviating before-hand.

Second, skipping the gold fortune doll on the tightrope in Ghost Toys Castle until when you have to come back a second time. The reason this is better is that you have to go through that room to get to the basement fortune doll anyway, and when you come back the second time you'll have Sasuke's super jump. You can super jump nearly 3/4 of the way across the rope and then jump the rest of the way after landing. It's quicker than trying to line yourself up and walk across it the first time through and doesn't waste any time since you have to go through that room on the second go-around anyway.

There were a lot of problems with his route though, and after watching it I feel pretty sure of my decision to place the 4 Bizen/Aki-Nagato fortune dolls after training Sasuke. The Kii-Awaji islands fortune doll that's on the ledge leading to the travel agency also needs to be grabbed the first time around. For some reason he cognitively decided to come back for it later, stopping by the coffee shop and fluting back farther along in the run. Grabbing both dolls on the rock and on the ledge eliminates the need to ever visit the area again, and allows you to not have to detour for the coffee shop. It just makes sense to me.

His execution wasn't really that bad I'd say (except for the Impact Battle I got to see...) A few slip-ups here and there that probably should've been optimized more, but overall it was probably slightly better than my test run. What that tells me is the difference between his 3:14 and my 2:57 comes at least partly from route differences, which lets me know that what I came up with works fine.

These two additions have been noted, and with just a few other things I need to test out I may be able to start recording soon.

Okay, just finished watching what exists of the previous improvement run, and I only saw a few things that I liked over my route.

First, I didn't even think about ignoring the fortune doll through the grates right before Festival Temple Castle and getting it afterward, as you can drop straight through the second gap when heading out and land almost right on top of it. Much quicker than deviating before-hand.

Second, skipping the gold fortune doll on the tightrope in Ghost Toys Castle until when you have to come back a second time. The reason this is better is that you have to go through that room to get to the basement fortune doll anyway, and when you come back the second time you'll have Sasuke's super jump. You can super jump nearly 3/4 of the way across the rope and then jump the rest of the way after landing. It's quicker than trying to line yourself up and walk across it the first time through and doesn't waste any time since you have to go through that room on the second go-around anyway.

There were a lot of problems with his route though, and after watching it I feel pretty sure of my decision to place the 4 Bizen/Aki-Nagato fortune dolls after training Sasuke. The Kii-Awaji islands fortune doll that's on the ledge leading to the travel agency also needs to be grabbed the first time around. For some reason he cognitively decided to come back for it later, stopping by the coffee shop and fluting back farther along in the run. Grabbing both dolls on the rock and on the ledge eliminates the need to ever visit the area again, and allows you to not have to detour for the coffee shop. It just makes sense to me.

His execution wasn't really that bad I'd say (except for the Impact Battle I got to see...) A few slip-ups here and there that probably should've been optimized more, but overall it was probably slightly better than my test run. What that tells me is the difference between his 3:14 and my 2:57 comes at least partly from route differences, which lets me know that what I came up with works fine.

These two additions have been noted, and with just a few other things I need to test out I may be able to start recording soon.

NoiseCrash

Edit history:

NoiseCrash: 2008-10-14 11:14:25 am

2008-10-13 06:05:55 pm

@_@

Just thought I'd give a progress update so you won't think I forgot about it.

I recorded up through segment 4 since Saturday. Transformed Oedo Castle and Impact Battle 1 to Ghost Toys Castle were new experiences for me, I'm used to my segments being an average of 3 or 4 minutes long (Paper Mario) when IPB1 --> GTC ended up being 20+. It all worked out pretty well though I think. Smiley

Edit (cause I'm tired of reposting and reposting and reposting. I is no spammer!!!):

Ghost Toys Castle absolutely kicked my butt. I found the fastest way through everything, but the problem is that health management is a jerk. Most of the fastest routes involve swimming through the red water that causes damage every couple of seconds. Most of it went acceptably well, but the pool table room just absolutely owned me. First off, I went in there with only half a heart of health (tongue twister?) so I couldn't get hit at all. Second, the way the camera works while you're in the middle of the table is so horrible since you can't see behind you. I spent quite a bit of time spinning around because I couldn't find that stupid 5-ball! That part is kind of ugly, but I've kept trying and trying and trying and couldn't get through the segment one more time without dying due to taking the fastest route... so I accepted it. Hopefully it won't be as ugly watching it as it felt when I was playing it.

Just thought I'd give a progress update so you won't think I forgot about it.

I recorded up through segment 4 since Saturday. Transformed Oedo Castle and Impact Battle 1 to Ghost Toys Castle were new experiences for me, I'm used to my segments being an average of 3 or 4 minutes long (Paper Mario) when IPB1 --> GTC ended up being 20+. It all worked out pretty well though I think. :)

Edit (cause I'm tired of reposting and reposting and reposting. I is no spammer!!!):

Ghost Toys Castle absolutely kicked my butt. I found the fastest way through everything, but the problem is that health management is a jerk. Most of the fastest routes involve swimming through the red water that causes damage every couple of seconds. Most of it went acceptably well, but the pool table room just absolutely owned me. First off, I went in there with only half a heart of health (tongue twister?) so I couldn't get hit at all. Second, the way the camera works while you're in the middle of the table is so horrible since you can't see behind you. I spent quite a bit of time spinning around because I couldn't find that stupid 5-ball! That part is kind of ugly, but I've kept trying and trying and trying and couldn't get through the segment one more time without dying due to taking the fastest route... so I accepted it. Hopefully it won't be as ugly watching it as it felt when I was playing it.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-15 05:30:04 pm

@_@

I know, I'm hogging all the posts.

Just wanted to say this is now finished. I thought I would be able to shave 2 minutes, maybe 3 at best off of my test run but I managed to save 4, bringing my 2:57 down to 2:53. I'm mostly happy with the play quality in this one and I couldn't ask for better Impact battles, so this is the time I'm going to submit.

I've got to burn them off the hard drive to DVD's, and I need to buy another stack of DVD's for that to happen so it'll be a few days before the submitting process will start, but just wanted to let you guys know where it stands.

FinalMinuet

2008-10-16 11:20:52 pm

PLASMA!

I always knew sub-3 was possible! Congrats!

This is FinalMinuet. The partial run that Nate posted is mine (thanks Nate). End time was 3:14:xx, so you managed to shave off... 21 minutes? Seriously? I knew I had room for improvement, but damn! Grin

Anyway, great job on 2:53. Can't wait to see this run in action.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-16 11:32:42 pm

@_@

Hey man, thought you weren't around anymore. Thanks for stopping by. Smiley

Thanks also for making that run by the way, you did things in a few spots that I never thought of (using Sasuke for the Ghost Toys Castle tightrope doll, falling through the cracks for the doll after Festival Temple Castle to name a few) and gave me a time to beat. 2:53 is just me taking the final save time and adding time for Balberra/D'etoile so I dunno exactly how accurate it is depending on how screwy my internal timer was.

You'll probably laugh at my pool room debacle in Ghost Toys Castle. It's not easy with a horrible camera angle and half a heart left. Grin

I've finished burning DVD's so I'm going to get to work on the whole comments/information thing tomorrow and get in touch with Mike. Hopefully enough people will volunteer to verify before too long once it gets in the queue so it doesn't end up in verification hell.

mikwuyma

2008-10-17 08:34:01 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from batman9502:

Hey man, thought you weren't around anymore. Thanks for stopping by. Smiley

I saw him on AIM and directed him towards this topic. I figured he would be interested in the recent progress in this topic Wink

Quote from batman9502:

I've finished burning DVD's so I'm going to get to work on the whole comments/information thing tomorrow and get in touch with Mike. Hopefully enough people will volunteer to verify before too long once it gets in the queue so it doesn't end up in verification hell.

If the verifiers I collected for FinalMinuet's run are still around, you might be able to send in your run right away. I'll have to check who the verifiers are though.

NoiseCrash

Edit history:

NoiseCrash: 2008-10-18 04:34:12 pm

2008-10-17 11:24:42 pm

@_@

Up for verification.

Anyone interested in verifying should PM mikwuyma.

Thanks. Smiley

NoiseCrash

2008-10-27 10:16:19 am

@_@

Alright, I've started attempts on a single segment any/low%. I categorize it this way because the fastest way through the game would be to avoid all Fortune Dolls, since all they would really do is waste a few seconds and the health gain is really unnecessary. Since it avoids all Fortune Dolls, it's also a low% since 100% collects all of them.

I don't have much time for many attempts though, since I'm only able to do it on weekends and I don't always have 2+ hours with no interruptions and nothing else to do. It will get done, I'm just not sure when. I also might try to improve the Large Boss Fighting Mode run after this, but that's only so I can take over every spot on the game page and if done will be done after the SS low%. Grin

HidoiMidoriRyuu

2008-10-30 03:15:35 am

4NT

And I who was sorta planning on doing an any% run. Tongue

Ah, well. Beat my Large Boss Mode if you like, there is room for improvements in it. And be prepared to be bored to death by the unskippable cutscenes. Hm. Maybe should go restart working on the MNSG2 speedrun I started a few years ago instead.

NoiseCrash

2008-10-30 11:56:50 am

@_@

Yeah, the only thing I'm concerned about on Large Boss Mode is that I spam way too many nasal bullets at Balberra. But I'll worry about that later.

I agree you should work on MNSG2. SDA needs more Goemon, it's kind of a shame that MNSG is the only game we have. I wish I could get a hold of a SNES and do Legend of the Mystical Ninja but I have neither the system nor the cartridge.

HidoiMidoriRyuu

2008-10-30 05:16:23 pm

4NT

Just don't spam away all your bullets on the preceeding bosses. Tongue

Works in the game since you have way more ammo on each boss but Large Boss Mode has health and bullets carrying over between fights. (Actually, I do not remember if bullets reset if you shoot them all away.)

From what I remember MNSG2 takes a lot of time to run and it's really easy to fail in it. My time for the first world was about 30 minutes I think with half being the castle and bosses. Also, you have to be really good with route planning and timing since some entry passes can only be gotten during night but getting through levels at night is a lot slower than during the day. Hm. Time to dust off the N64, although my MNSG2 cart is a bit dodgy and prone to randomly freezing. (Also, bad Konami cutting out the intro theme and Impact song for the international release.)

NoiseCrash

2008-10-30 05:24:43 pm

@_@

Haha yeah, well let's just say on Balberra my goal for ryo collecting before-hand was 400. =P

My strategy for the actual run of the game involves spamming nasal bullets in order to do Lasermouth twice on Kashiwagi, and I think maybe twice on Thaisamba but I can't remember off the top of my head. If I were to do large boss mode I would have to avoid that obviously. I don't think they reset if you shoot them all, the only instance I've come across was in the 100% run I go down to about 40 bullets left after defeating Balberra, and then when D'etoile starts I have 100-something. I think it's just for that fight in the game though but I'll figure all that stuff out once I get there.

I'm really not that familiar with MNSG2, I actually re-acquired my N64 from my cousin last year and had to order a copy of the MNSG game cartridge in order to run it, so I don't have a cartridge of 2 and I haven't played it in many years.