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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Hi All,

I've been working on doing a speed run for The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. No seriously, it can be completed in less time than it takes to watch the extended editions of all three Lord of the Rings films. However, before I say just how quick it can be done in, what rules would be imposed on a Morrowind speed run?

Firstly how would it be timed? The SDA rules mention 'internal timer'. While Morrowind has a game clock/calendar that ticks while you are playing, and you can tell the hour of day and day of month at any time, I assume this would not be the clock you use to time a run. Its only accurate to the nearest hour, so its not wildly accurate for speed timing purposes. Indeed if you wait, sleep, get some training, or travel by ship/siltstrider, hours will pass in the game clock during only a few seconds of gameplay time. I assume that gameplay time would be measured instead, which falls in line with other speed runs, but would have to be done by timing the recorded movie, as there is no gameplay clock in Morrowind.

Secondly, what to time. I would assume a run would purely consist of completing the main quest. i.e. Starting from the time you wake up on the ship at the beginning, finishing when you speak to Azura in the Facility Caverns (and cutscene starts) after you destroy Dagoth Ur and Akulakhan's Heart. There are a few different paths you can take between that start and finish, one of which lends itself nicely to speed running Wink

Thirdly, saving. You can save at any time. Some things in the game are random. By reloading you can affect the outcome of certain events (such as whether a potion is created, whether a spell is successfully cast, or whether you successfully persuade an NPC). However, your skill in particular areas also affects randomness. High enough skills always succeed, and higher 'Luck' attribute affects success in all random events. Should saving be allowed? Morrowind is not a stable game. If you can manage a single segment time without it crashing to desktop you are lucky indeed. So, what should the penalty be for saves?

Finally, Morrowind allows you to do a great many things, many of which are handy (or indeed essential) for speed running. I've been using the following extensively:

  • Travelling by Silt Strider/Ship allows you to travel to other towns with silt striders/ships. This cost you money to use and takes hours of game clock time (but seconds of gameplay).
  • Mage Guild Teleporting allows you to travel to any other Mage Guilds (there are only 5). Also costs you money to use, but is instantaneous in game clock time and gameplay.
  • The Mark/Recall spells are probably the most useful, allowing you to Mark your current location so that you can teleport (Recall) back to it whenever you like. You can only have one Mark at a time, and can only Recall to a visited (Marked) location, so it's not all powerful. Requires Magicka (mana) to cast. Magicka regenerates when you drink a magicka potion, or sleep.
  • The Divine Intervention spell takes you to the nearest Imperial Shrine and Almsivi Intervention spell to the nearest Temple. This means if its quicker to run from a temple/shrine to a location than it is to run from wherever you are, you can cast it and get there quicker. You don't need to have visited the temple or shrine to teleport there, but you don't have a choice about which temple/shrine you go to (always travel to nearest). Requires mana to cast.
  • Training - makes it very easy to level up quickly in terms of gameplay time, so long as you have the money to pay for it (which gets more expensive for higher levels, and you can't train higher than your trainers skill level). Training does actually take a fair amount of game clock time (2 hours per skill level which is the equivalent of 20 hours per character level, plus sleeping time to level up). Some of the quests you have to do require you to be of a minimum character/skill level, so one way or another you have to level up, and this is the quickest route.
  • Alchemy exploit - Alchemy allows you to create potions that allow you to create more powerful potions (i.e. Fortify Intelligence potions). The more you create and drink, the more powerful subsequent potions are. There is no apparent cap to this, but it ultimately allows you to create very powerful potions. Potions require ingredients, which in turn cost money. Some ingredient sellers do not run out of some ingredients. Powerful potions are also worth a lot of money, so you can sell potions for a lot more than their ingredient's worth.
  • Money - Required for a great many things. Creeper and the drunken Mud Crab buy items at retail price, allowing you to get your money's worth from any items they will buy. As with all retailers, they can only buy so much per day before their money runs out, but they have a large pot of money to start with. Therefore by selling an expensive item and waiting 24 hours, selling another item, waiting, selling, waiting, etc you can build up a large pot of cash in little gameplay time (though large game clock time, so time really is money here).


On the whole, if you only time the gameplay time, you can make use of the above to complete the game pretty quickly. However your game clock time will be high. As much as it pains me to suggest this, my instinct is to put some kind of penalty on anything that involves time passing faster than real time, i.e. waiting, sleeping, training, ship/silt strider travelling. Again, what should that penalty be? I assume it would be a penalty per hour passed outside of real time.

I think that covers most aspects. Whaddya think?
Thread title:  
Precursor
If you can save, play, load and start playing again from the exact same point you saved at, it could easily be made into a segmented run.

And time penalty for something that is a part of the game? Won't happen. I suppose it'll just be timed like many other runs, starting when you get control of your character and ending when you lose control before the ending.
[delurk]Morrowind would likely be timed via stopwatch, so to speak. The internal timer would not be used. I'm pretty sure you're right on what would be timed, as well.

As for saving, definitely allowed but a run utilising saves would be a separate category from any single-segment attempt. There might be time penalties involved for saves; I know the Half-Life runs impose a half-second penalty.

All of the other things you mentioned are part of the game, even the alchemy "glitch", and would definitely be allowed without time penalties.


I'm a wee bit curious as to your intended route. If I were to do a run of this game, I'd likely go something like
1) Rob a suitable shopkeeper for cash
2) Train enough levels to be able to ...
3) ... kill hapless ordinators in Vivec for all the cash needed for the rest of the game
4) Do any training & enchanting needed for the rest of the game
5) Gleefully smash my now-overpowered way through the main quest
Abusing Summon Golden Saint > Soultrap > Enchantment to make enough magic absorb and sanctuary gear to acchieve total immunity is a good way to break the game in normal play, but I'm not sure it's prudent to gather that many grand soul gems in a speed run. Still, an Atronach sign and a couple of choice enchants should help quite a bit.[/delurk]
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Yep, the saves put you straight back in the world you left, but there's nothing to stop you reloading if a spell randomly failed to cast at a crucial moment after you reload. If anything the reload does disadvantage you briefly as you have to re-enable the run/walk toggle Wink

Ultimately I'm not doing anything outside the bounds of the game, just exploiting a few handy power gaming features for a fast run. I just wasn't sure if a run should at least make reference to the game clock time, by adding penalties to the game clock time. I certainly won't argue if no penalty is applied to what is a feature of the game anyway.

Morrowind is technically a game without an end. The main quest is just something you can choose (or choose not) to do. It starts with a cutscene at the beginning of the game and ends with a cutscene once completed, but there's nothing to stop you playing on after completing the main quest. There are many other mini-quests and factions to join. It does provide a distinct beginning and end to time from Smiley
100% Australian Meat Guaranteed
as much as i love this game, i think it would be stupid speed running it. too long, too much randomness, too much lvling/learning spells etc. the only thing that would really keep me interested would be knowing how ud kill dagoth quickly (providing u dont lvl insanely)

yeh :/
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Trying to force your way through the entire main quest can be done at speed, but it still takes time to do, and yes this would make a boring run. When I went back and played morrowind having left it a year or so, I concentrated on completing the quests that I'd not done, as a result I'd pretty much ignored the main quest until later on. It was then that I discovered the first 'shortcut', whereby you can skip the whole nerevarine/hortator section. This first got me thinking about a speed run. However upon investigating why you could skip it, it turned out that you had to build your reputation to 50. While this disappointed me (as it takes forever to build your reputation this high), I also read about another alternate route on UESP. This is the one that got me thinking about the speed run.

Forget the main quest as you know it, forget Caius Cosades, forget the whole Nerevarine and Hortator business. What you need to do is kill the god Vivec. His dead body will leave you the Wraithguard, but it will be non functional (because he hadn't activated it). There is another way to activate it though, and that's through the last surviving dwarf in Tel Fyr. The only thing is, he won't activate it until your reputation is at least 20 (he won't do it for just anyone). Once activated all you need to do is get Sunder and Keening and destroy Dagoth Ur as normal. The essence of this speed run is therefore to find the quickest way to build your reputation to 20. For this you need to pick and choose your quests (i.e. those that deliver reputation points as quickly as possible), as well as your means of getting money, levelling up, and protecting yourself with whatever magical path you choose.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
It seems like the easiest way to power up for the reputation gathering would be to abuse alchemy to make +10000 strength/intelligence/etc (not speed! - make several +400 or something instead) for serveral hours potions. I dunno where to find information on what quests give what reputation though.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Pick and choose:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t21.html
asdf
Sounds intresting.
I have never taken the time to beat the main quest so this should be intresting. I mostly just fulled around... :party:
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I've actually wanted to do a single-segment speed run of this for quite some time.  However, I think you're not going about it quite the right way.  Morrowind can probably be won in under 2 hours if you use the alchemy exploit.

- Start a new character
- Head to Caldera, steal the master alchemy set from the top of the tower
- Head to Tel Mora.  Start abusing alchemy over and over, selling potions you make to earn money for reagents.  Eventually hit the point where you can just get your potions arbitrarily powerful.
- Drink potions to increase your strength (but not TOO much, so you don't "kill" the Heart), your HP (a huge amount), and your running speed (not too much)
- Go get the two items you need to win
- Use the items to win

(It's been a while, so I can't remember all the details... you'll have to fill it in Smiley

For the Tel Mora section, you'll have to write down which alchemists restock which ingredients.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Oh man, I thought Sunder and Keening killed you straight when you tried equipping them without the Wraithguard. I'd tried fortifying health, but not to excessive levels. You are totally correct. Forget the whole 20 reputation business and activating Wraithguard. With enough "potion abuse" you can survive Sunder and Keening's "mortal blows" long enough to destroy the heart.

I had a run that completed it in under 1h15m. I reckon it can now be done in less time than QDQWAV (That statement might actually be true). That sounds like a single segment run to me too. It could also be the most boring run in existance.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Just hacked a run together at just less than 17 minutes. It wasn't particularly great either.

I've got to find a balance between controllable fortify speed and excessive fortify speed. At the moment a speed of 1600 will take you over large distances quickly (especially when combined with levitation) but is uncontrollable indoors, not to mention causing problems with collision detection (exiting the game world and getting stuck on objects).

I'm also wondering if Mark/Recall is worth the time and money purchasing. It can reduce times for some sections later on, but requires a time investment to obtain.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Wow, that's pretty fast. Looking foward to the run when complete.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Well I managed to record a single segment run of 17:04. That time was measured by recording the whole run and then deleting any frames that displayed a "Loading" bar. I won't release that run as it contained a few really annoying errors.

The annoying thing about Morrowind is that it appears to do some loading with the loading bar displayed and other loading by just pausing the screen. This is frustrating as there is no easy way to delete the pauses. I guess they will have to be left in any runs that are recorded, which is a shame as their duration is probably purely PC performance related.
dont give up. We re happy to see any great mw speedrun Smiley
This guy claims Morrowind can be beaten in about 40 minutes by using the right scrolls:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/morrowind_scroll.txt

(GameFaqs link.  You'll have to copy/pase it into the address bar).

I haven't tried it myself, but it seems plausible.  Anyone want to try it out?
Oh, my bad.  I somehow missed the last few messages in the thread.  Oops.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
17 minutes!!  Shocked  I must admit, I wasn't expecting the game to be winnable nearly THAT fast.  Great job!  I can't wait to see the run.
100% Australian Meat Guaranteed
...17...minutes...?!?!?!?!?!

oh dear
Edit history:
Benito: 2005-04-24 11:11:00 am
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
At last, I've recorded a single segment run that I'm reasonably happy with. I get stuck on a few bits of scenery and make some miscellaneous mistakes, but on the whole it's a fairly good run. At least I didn't Mark any locations that got me stuck in the scenery, or forget to unequip Keening before it killed me...

And the time? After deleting the loading screens, a grand total of 14m 30s 520ms (do we round up to 31s?)

So, where can I upload to? Its 115MB for just the run, or 139MB if you include the intro/outro movies.
I'm addicted to games
Quote:
(do we round up to 31s?)


No, things always round down.

Contact me on aim, icq or irc to send me the file...
Grin nice we get soon a mw sr Cheesy A Game, which I spent more than 200 hours of my life Cheesy in 3 weeks  Lips Sealed
and now it is on the site Smiley
Edit history:
Benito: 2005-05-01 02:43:55 pm
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Yes indeed. 14:26 (after agreeing start/end points) single segment and it can be done faster.
The Unreal Authority.
This was a cool run.
Kind of boring at the beginning with all the potion making, but it was funny watching you fly to the end and whoop up on the last guy as he was monolouging. Is there some kind of macro you can set so you can make the potions quicker?? and maybe buy stuff faster?

I don't know ive never played morrowind, just know some people who waste a lot of time on it.