MMX Relay Feed back Thread

2014-04-27 11:50:38 am

raising the stakes on being bad!

ok so i know a lot went right and A LOT went wrong.
there's are many things i'm going to change in round 2.
I was speaking with caleb and he was thinking we could makes this a monthly thing.

if we do, my aim is 5-6 games each time about 6 hours of relay runs
maybe cut it to 2 teams for now, maybe keep it at 3 if it can be maintained.
Expand not just have MMX and new categories low/any/100, maybe even fun categories Cheesy

And new games Like MMZ1-4 ZX & ZXA and more game MMX related if possible Variety is the spice of life
im open to more new things maybe even show caseing rom hacks etc.(not sure) like this
http://www.insanedifficulty.com/board/index.php?/topic/4226-megaman-x-hard-type-v069/

so i figured its best to get to it right now and start getting feed back to fix things.
ok so for what went wrong

-Commentary went south fast we had audio issue at the start ( i do know how to fix this issue)
it got off track often and was unfocused next relay(s) i hope to have focused commentators (hopefully I can assist in each game now that i know how to deal with a 600+ viewer chat.) some audio issues with commentators were unresolved leaving me with almost NO commentators and having learned most of x1-6 in roughly 6 months commentating it is kinda hard >.<

-Chat was ignored for a long while I AM SORRY >.> i run a small channel and am used to 1 message per minute not 10 per second this is some thing i got used to by the end of the relay so it is pretty much fixed now.

-Runners where not featured in a way i would have liked and were less visible, next time they will have visible name tags on stream and we will copy past the runners info not the doc link to get there info out there.

-the A/V resizing was all kinds of dumb next relay it will be a uniform size regardless of the runners and i will only resize if the runner gives me an improperly formatted screen.

-all the relays will have a pre-relay from here on out to get all runners familiar with the system.

-a issue with having one wrong pb gave team zero a major disadvantage that means by all right they should have won so from here on out i get pb's from the runners and will be up dated on there progress (may change the part about being kept up to date)

-Runner commentary seems to be a thing that people disliked for several reason
(killing suspense, focusing on there run/mistakes, talking about their run while not being the large run)

- i also saw some complaining about the changing the big screen, i really am not sure of wither i like it or not cuz like i feared before the lead was basically the big screen 90% of the time i did/do have a three team layout that is even for all 3 but i didn't get a chance to use it maybe next race.

this is all i have for now feel free to add any feed back here guys i would love to hear it. (you can comment on anything I've already covered it might spark a new idea to make things better)
please just keep it constructive you can be as mean as you need to but at least tell me how to fix the issue or else your doing nothing but being a jerk.

Thread title:

ok so i know a lot went right and A LOT went wrong. 
there's are many things i'm going to change in round 2.
I was speaking with caleb and he was thinking we could makes this a monthly thing.

if we do, my aim is 5-6 games each time about 6 hours of relay runs
maybe cut it to 2 teams for now, maybe keep it at 3 if it can be maintained.
Expand not just have MMX and new categories low/any/100, maybe even fun categories :D
And new games Like MMZ1-4 ZX & ZXA and more game MMX related if possible Variety is the spice of life
im open to more new things maybe even show caseing rom hacks etc.(not sure) like this
http://www.insanedifficulty.com/board/index.php?/topic/4226-megaman-x-hard-type-v069/

so i figured its best to get to it right now and start getting feed back to fix things.
 ok so for what went wrong

-Commentary went south fast we had audio issue at the start ( i do know how to fix this issue)
it got off track often and was unfocused next relay(s) i hope to have focused commentators (hopefully I can assist in each game now that i know how to deal with a 600+ viewer chat.) some audio issues with commentators were unresolved leaving me with almost NO commentators and having learned most of x1-6 in roughly 6 months commentating it is kinda hard >.<

-Chat was ignored for a long while I AM SORRY >.> i run a small channel and am used to 1 message per minute not 10 per second this is some thing i got used to by the end of the relay so it is pretty much fixed now.

-Runners where not featured in a way i would have liked and were less visible, next time they will have visible name tags on stream and we will copy past the runners info not the doc link to get there info out there.

-the A/V resizing was all kinds of dumb next relay it will be a uniform size regardless of the runners and i will only resize if the runner gives me an improperly formatted screen.

-all the relays will have a pre-relay from here on out to get all runners familiar with the system.

-a issue with having one wrong pb gave team zero a major disadvantage that means by all right they should have won so from here on out i get pb's from the runners and will be up dated on there progress (may change the part about being kept up to date)

-Runner commentary seems to be a thing that people disliked for several reason 
(killing suspense, focusing on there run/mistakes, talking about their run while not being the large run)

- i also saw some complaining about the changing the big screen, i really am not sure of wither i like it or not cuz like i feared before the lead was basically the big screen 90% of the time i did/do have a three team layout that is even for all 3 but i didn't get a chance to use it maybe next race.

this is all i have for now feel free to add any feed back here guys i would love to hear it. (you can comment on anything I've already covered it might spark a new idea to make things better)
please just keep it constructive you can be as mean as you need to but at least tell me how to fix the issue or else your doing nothing but being a jerk.

atratus

2014-04-27 12:08:04 pm

you touched on pretty much everything i would have.

great relay man. hearing this becoming a monthly has gotten me hype. cant wait.

moooh

2014-04-27 12:24:55 pm

Exoray

This board is for discussions regarding the *GDQ marathons only. Moving this to the community board.

KHANanaphone

2014-04-27 12:50:56 pm

Fiiive

I liked having one big screen, made it easier to tell which screen the commentators were talking about.

Wallyaldo

Edit history:

Wallyaldo: 2014-04-27 02:11:26 pm

Wallyaldo: 2014-04-27 02:09:48 pm

Wallyaldo: 2014-04-27 02:09:36 pm

2014-04-27 02:05:55 pm

It would probably be much easier to have people start streaming on their own personal channels when the runner before them is nearing the end of the last stages, as it makes transitioning to that runner less of a hassle and ensures they actually start everything up correctly. Doing this, you'd know WAY sooner if there would be any issues getting their stream up. I also didn't have an issue with the commentary, but I feel it would have worked better with just two teams. Personally, I prefer that other people commentate as opposed to the runners, but that's more preference than anything. An automated bot (or one with commands for mods maybe?) that would name the runners currently going would also make things easier instead of typing it out manually and possibly messing up the link or something. I did really like the way the splits were handled, though, and would like to see them done the same way.

peter afro

2014-04-27 05:46:17 pm

Variety is dumb, repetition is life.

The Sid

2014-04-27 07:16:27 pm

raising the stakes on being bad!

Thanks Wally thats a lot of really usefull stuff and will be helpful for the next one ^.^

Hart-Hunt

2014-04-28 06:44:58 pm

Hi! I've just found this thread and thought I would introduce myself briefly.

I'm Megaman X: Hard Type's creator, the project linked in the OP. The project basically is a mod that enhances the difficulty of the original MMX by redesigning the entirety of each of the stages, and modifying several aspects of the game, for instance the cost of the weapons or the damage dealt with them to enemies and bosses.

To not take much of your time, what I'd like to say is that this is still a WIP, for which there are some stages that are being polished for the coming version (best example is the last stage released, Armored Armadillo). If you were to run the entire mod (which I'd look forward to), I'd suggest to wait for a more complete version, which would come with more beta testing, and consequent polishes on the released stages.

Don't hesitate to contact me should you have any questions about the mod's development / changes.

DarkBluesZX

2014-04-29 09:37:16 am

Sounds like Maverick talk to me.

I'm Gonna get on ZX. But I need a way to capture it.

Joka

2014-04-29 09:44:45 am

Personal text

Quote from DarkBluesZX:

I'm Gonna get on ZX. But I need a way to capture it.

http://3dscapture.com/ds/

kirbymastah

2014-04-29 10:38:45 am

<(^_^)>

Quote from Joka:

Quote from DarkBluesZX:

I'm Gonna get on ZX. But I need a way to capture it.

http://3dscapture.com/ds/

The DS phat capture is relatively cheap, assuming you have a ds phat yourself (if not, a ds phat is pretty cheap anyways). Loopy is also very kind about moding the ds itself (he noticed my ds phat's batteries were bad so he replaced it for me without charge), so I fully endorse this.

Crak Atak

Edit history:

Crak Atak: 2014-05-02 03:16:52 am

Crak Atak: 2014-05-02 03:03:59 am

2014-05-02 03:00:29 am

Hax I used all of my strengthz

My suggestions/feedback:

You covered many of the potential issues so here is my take

-Don't take anyone who signs up for the relay just to fill a game or commentary. Make sure they are trusted in the community and have the skill or knowledge in their respective game

-Put it on your stream, sure you may have to hype it up more but you won't have the majority of viewers associated to a particular runner/team (even though caleb is a nice guy and runner)

-Take ownership of the situation more often. Don't let the chat take control of the relay, otherwise your planning means almost nothing (different from feedback)

-Plan for a worst case scenario. For example if the runner mercy kills their run, what will the time penalties be?

-You need help during the relay, for example have a volunteer time the runs for you, or keep track of average viewers for a game. A one man team for setup is not feasible for this kind of event. Commentary also applies to this.

-Commentary can be enlightened by talking about the runner's strats in comparision to another runner. Talking about PBs,WRs or how much better a runner is would not be fair to the runners who are weaker at their game. This also throws away some of the suspense with competition. Also keep opinions to a minimum during commentary, we come to watch the runners not to hear your take on a runner or game.

-Teams did not feel like teams, qttsix for example could be considered a one man team. I think a possible solution to this lies in the commentary bringing up lesser known runners more often.

-Monthly relays probably would probably be one of the worst things you could do. Imagine if a GDQ happened every month, sure it would be fun to see a lot of runs over a short period of time and viewers would probably be consistent. The downside would be that you would run out of new material and suspense/hype leading up the event. I feel as though you would limit the potential evolution of such an event.

My suggestions/feedback:

You covered many of the potential issues so here is my take

-Don't take anyone who signs up for the relay just to fill a game or commentary. Make sure they are trusted in the community and have the skill or knowledge in their respective game

-Put it on your stream, sure you may have to hype it up more but you won't have the majority of viewers associated to a particular runner/team (even though caleb is a nice guy and runner)

-Take ownership of the situation more often. Don't let the chat take control of the relay, otherwise your planning means almost nothing (different from feedback)

-Plan for a worst case scenario. For example if the runner mercy kills their run, what will the time penalties be?

-You need help during the relay, for example have a volunteer time the runs for you, or keep track of average viewers for a game. A one man team for setup is not feasible for this kind of event. Commentary also applies to this.

-Commentary can be enlightened by talking about the runner's strats in comparision to another runner. Talking about PBs,WRs or how much better a runner is would not be fair to the runners who are weaker at their game. This also throws away some of the suspense with competition. Also keep opinions to a minimum during commentary, we come to watch the runners not to hear your take on a runner or game.

-Teams did not feel like teams, qttsix for example could be considered a one man team. I think a possible solution to this lies in the commentary bringing up lesser known runners more often.

-Monthly relays probably would probably be one of the worst things you could do. Imagine if a GDQ happened every month, sure it would be fun to see a lot of runs over a short period of time and viewers would probably be consistent. The downside would be that you would run out of new material and suspense/hype leading up the event. I feel as though you would limit the potential evolution of such an event.

The Sid

2014-05-03 09:55:59 pm

raising the stakes on being bad!

OK Hart hunt sorry for taking so long to get back to you ill reach out to you and help you polish the Stages (in terms of feed back from a speed runners perspective) and more let me know whats your preferred way to communicate.
can you maintain activity here? or would you rather have me try and communicate on the mod threads.

ok for the DS games ( and all games as well) if you wish to play on emu up to this point unless every runner in the relay (manly the runners of the same game find and issue with it) i am allowing emu run i find no reason to cut out part of the speed running community when I can balance teams based on pb's which will balance around you using emu as well. etc etc soap boxing...

as for crak you bring up SEVERAL good points i will address each of them tomorrow (when i have more time and a fresh mind) im sorry it took me so long to get back to you but that information is infinitely valuable and thanks for that feed back.

The Sid

2014-05-05 03:00:20 pm

raising the stakes on being bad!

Quote from Crak Atak:

-Don't take anyone who signs up for the relay just to fill a game or commentary. Make sure they are trusted in the community and have the skill or knowledge in their respective game

after the way commentary went last time this is some thing i will do some "vetting"

Quote from Crak Atak:

-Put it on your stream, sure you may have to hype it up more but you won't have the majority of viewers associated to a particular runner/team (even though caleb is a nice guy and runner)

maybe in the future for now i see the growth of the runners lieing in calebs stream, and im not all that interested in growing my stream at this time tbh.

Quote from Crak Atak:

-Take ownership of the situation more often. Don't let the chat take control of the relay, otherwise your planning means almost nothing (different from feedback)

yes loosing the ship to chat was definitely an issue having a 600+ chat is something that was foreign to me and by the end of the relay i felt comfortable with it and is some thing ill spend some more time working on but i am sure i will not cater to so much next time, it is a diffrent beast then 10 viewers where 1 viewer may be speaking for the whole chat

Quote from Crak Atak:

-Plan for a worst case scenario. For example if the runner mercy kills their run, what will the time penalties be?

i think imposed PB + X time like i used encase of sneaks as a whole will balance the teams in retrospect a lot of things felt like practice could have caught that kind of error. (just need to work out a formula/ number for it)
this works well because the teams are balanced based on pb so in a perfect world the race will be super close if each runner can pb during there run, but even when that's not the case X and Zero managed to make it close even with he inadvertent handicap Zero was given.

Quote from Crak Atak:

-You need help during the relay, for example have a volunteer time the runs for you, or keep track of average viewers for a game. A one man team for setup is not feasible for this kind of event. Commentary also applies to this.

yes i think getting some one to time it as a backup is a good idea, im looking into setting up an irc bot for the race to record times. and even a human backup would be welcome as some of my splits were obviously late.

Quote from Crak Atak:

-Commentary can be enlightened by talking about the runner's strats in comparision to another runner. Talking about PBs,WRs or how much better a runner is would not be fair to the runners who are weaker at their game. This also throws away some of the suspense with competition. Also keep opinions to a minimum during commentary, we come to watch the runners not to hear your take on a runner or game.

commentary is A #1 my major focus on my end right now im looking into refining my style with good commentators getting skilled commentators like Zewing and CptAbearica for there game and will work on those that will commentate with me to make sure its up to snuff not opinionated, and or PB focused. more like focusing on Glitchs, game techs, and routes being played like Ostrich 3rd V Stag 3rd or ensuizon glitch which gives invincibility in x6, (not easy modo making spike not kill you LOL)
this was a major ball drop im really mad at my self for i was to busy thinking logistics not covering commentary.

Quote from Crak Atak:

-Teams did not feel like teams, qttsix for example could be considered a one man team. I think a possible solution to this lies in the commentary bringing up lesser known runners more often.

yes the diversity in the commentary and who was on the main screen was an issue it is something that is going to be worked on.
i underestimated how well know qttsix was know and pushed him much harder then i should have compared to 8Bit (who ended up with tech issues) and cirno_beats_sanae who learned x7 on top of practicing x6 just for that relay >.>
i need to note the "unknown" runners if any on stream and give them some love and if there arent any atleast add a few to the doc that are good runners that are backup like NrgZam and Albert for x1 low either of them could have run if i had a runner drop.

Quote from Crak Atak:

-Monthly relays probably would probably be one of the worst things you could do. Imagine if a GDQ happened every month, sure it would be fun to see a lot of runs over a short period of time and viewers would probably be consistent. The downside would be that you would run out of new material and suspense/hype leading up the event. I feel as though you would limit the potential evolution of such an event.

yeah it was just an idea i was tossing around i killed it pretty quick.
the "fastest" i would want to do em' is every 2 months to run maybe 5-6 games out of all MMX's & MMZ's and feature a special game with the left over time maybe a TAS MMBN run im not sure some thing like that a bonus stream that doesn't rely on my internet being 100% and having 3 streams open for 8+ hours its just and idea.
i can still do this with the every 3-4 month version if i cant get the runners for x7 and x8 etc. on a regular basis due to the limited # of runners

ok sorry for the mile long post but i wanted to touch on all of that individually because it was all golden info.
hopefully my trip to SGDQ will enlighten me to the ways of commentary and such and make this relay even more hype.

if you have any thing else feel free to ad it guys Cheesy

[quote="Crak Atak"]

-Don't take anyone who signs up for the relay just to fill a game or commentary. Make sure they are trusted in the community and have the skill or knowledge in their respective game

[/quote]

after the way commentary went last time this is some thing i will do some "vetting"

[quote="Crak Atak"]

-Put it on your stream, sure you may have to hype it up more but you won't have the majority of viewers associated to a particular runner/team (even though caleb is a nice guy and runner)

[/quote]

maybe in the future for now i see the growth of the runners lieing in calebs stream, and im not all that interested in growing my stream at this time tbh.

[quote="Crak Atak"]

-Take ownership of the situation more often. Don't let the chat take control of the relay, otherwise your planning means almost nothing (different from feedback)

[/quote]

yes loosing the ship to chat was definitely an issue having a 600+ chat is something that was foreign to me and by the end of the relay i felt comfortable with it and is some thing ill spend some more time working on but i am sure i will not cater to so much next time, it is a diffrent beast then 10 viewers where 1 viewer may be speaking for the whole chat

[quote="Crak Atak"]

-Plan for a worst case scenario. For example if the runner mercy kills their run, what will the time penalties be?

[/quote]

i think imposed PB + X time like i used encase of sneaks as a whole will balance the teams in retrospect a lot of things felt like practice could have caught that kind of error. (just need to work out a formula/ number for it)
this works well because the teams are balanced based on pb so in a perfect world the race will be super close if each runner can pb during there run, but even when that's not the case X and Zero managed to make it close even with he inadvertent handicap Zero was given.

[quote="Crak Atak"]

-You need help during the relay, for example have a volunteer time the runs for you, or keep track of average viewers for a game. A one man team for setup is not feasible for this kind of event. Commentary also applies to this.

[/quote]
yes i think getting some one to time it as a backup is a good idea, im looking into setting up an irc bot for the race to record times. and even a human backup would be welcome as some of my splits were obviously late.

[quote="Crak Atak"]

-Commentary can be enlightened by talking about the runner's strats in comparision to another runner. Talking about PBs,WRs or how much better a runner is would not be fair to the runners who are weaker at their game. This also throws away some of the suspense with competition. Also keep opinions to a minimum during commentary, we come to watch the runners not to hear your take on a runner or game.

[/quote]
commentary is A #1 my major focus on my end right now im looking into refining my style with good commentators getting skilled commentators like Zewing and CptAbearica for there game and will work on those that will commentate with me to make sure its up to snuff not opinionated, and or PB focused. more like focusing on Glitchs, game techs, and routes being played like Ostrich 3rd V Stag 3rd  or ensuizon glitch which gives invincibility in x6, (not easy modo making spike not kill you LOL)
this was a major ball drop im really mad at my self for i was to busy thinking logistics not covering commentary.

[quote="Crak Atak"]

-Teams did not feel like teams, qttsix for example could be considered a one man team. I think a possible solution to this lies in the commentary bringing up lesser known runners more often.

[/quote]
yes the diversity in the commentary and who was on the main screen was an issue it is something that is going to be worked on.
i underestimated how well know qttsix was know and pushed him much harder then i should have compared to 8Bit (who ended up with tech issues) and cirno_beats_sanae who learned x7 on top of practicing x6 just for that relay >.> 
i need to note the "unknown" runners if any on stream and give them some love and if there arent any atleast add a few to the doc that are good runners that are backup like NrgZam and Albert for x1 low either of them could have run if i had a runner drop.

[quote="Crak Atak"]

-Monthly relays probably would probably be one of the worst things you could do. Imagine if a GDQ happened every month, sure it would be fun to see a lot of runs over a short period of time and viewers would probably be consistent. The downside would be that you would run out of new material and suspense/hype leading up the event. I feel as though you would limit the potential evolution of such an event.

[/quote]

yeah it was just an idea i was tossing around i killed it pretty quick.
the "fastest" i would want to do em' is every 2 months to run maybe 5-6 games out of all MMX's & MMZ's and feature a special game with the left over time maybe a TAS MMBN run im not sure some thing like that a bonus stream that doesn't rely on my internet being 100% and having 3 streams open for 8+ hours its just and idea.
i can still do this with the every 3-4 month version if i cant get the runners for x7 and x8 etc. on a regular basis due to the limited # of runners

ok sorry for the mile long post but i wanted to touch on all of that individually because it was all golden info.
hopefully my trip to SGDQ will enlighten me to the ways of commentary and such and make this relay even more hype.

if you have any thing else feel free to ad it guys :D

Hart-Hunt

2014-05-06 09:24:25 pm

Hey, sorry I took so long to answer.

I could keep track of the forums here, sure. If not, we can always talk at Insane Difficulty where I host the mod, you can register there for free.

I'd help a lot to have your perspective on what things could be changed. I want Hard Type to be the best it can, among my possibilities as a modder.