Very good. Some more accuracy for the shooting, more luck with the cristals and beds explosions, an dthis will be perfect, I believe.
You're not telling me sub 10 minutes is possible O.O
SDA Forum
Quote from Bismuth:
Getting to the end before about 7 minutes? and then kill in 3 minutes, I don'T think so. I would say MINIMUM 20 minutes. You need to dupe quite some things and I'm thinking single segment.
AFAIK this would no longer be single segment when using the dupe glitch since it gives an opportunity for segmenting and isn't technically neccessary for completing the run.
Besides that, cool trick with the beds! I didn't imagine beds being that effective against the dragon.
CBenni, in my opinion a single segment speedrun being much more impressive, I'm going for that. This said, I highly doubt anyone could do under 20 minutes single segment. Right now after a few attempts my current record stands at 45:33. I was very slow on the dragon fight and there is a lot of improvement to be done on that part. Still, my ultimate goal is under 30 minutes, though right now I'm wondering if I'll even get sub-35. Maybe I just suck, but for a single segment run, 20 minutes? No. Also, I thought using resets in a single segment was now permitted on SDA. Personally I consider the dupe glitch to be exactly the same thing as a reset. I'll explain it by comparing to Zelda OoT. ZFG uses savewarping and resets the game in order to make memory-manipulating glitches to complete the game faster. It's the same thing. So this makes single segment with duplication possible.
My run is not optimal right now but I can tell something. I can get to the stronghold with some iron, wood and a bucket of water in less than 4 minutes.
Then, I duplicate stuff so I can get to the Nether rather safe. I use a very fast (probably optimal) portal building method, it takes me about 40 seconds to build a portal from scratch, but I still need to go get the stuff in the chests, find and kill skeletons until they drop arrows, fight a silverfish army, make a golden apple to duplicate, and get strings for wool and a bow later on. Overall I'm in the nether after 11:26 in my best run. This can be improved of course, I had to run around trying to find a skeleton, I missed a few duplication glitches (I think there is an important luck factor) and I duplicated a little more than was really needed.
Then, I admit I was very unlucky on the blaze rod drop, but this is really no easy task. The fortress in the seed is high up over endless lava, so there is no way you can fight blazes there. Problem is, if you find one, it's most likely just over a 30-block-high fall to lava. It's near impossible to get a blaze rod fast. You need to search a lot, and when you finally find a blaze that you can potentially kill and retrieve its drop, it DOESN'T drop a rod. I got my rod at 17:18. From the start I'd say this can possibly be improved by about 7 minutes. Let's say it takes about 3 minutes less making everything else, and you find a blaze rod very, very quickly. So at this point it'd be about 10 minutes. Single segment though, that is REALLY optimistic.
Then you have to duplicate enough arrows so you can take out the orbs. You have to make an iron armor if you didn't already, you have to get enough golden apples, and enough beds. Overall the second set of duplications took me about 3 minutes and a half. I got to the end at 22:19. Then, the dragon fight was very very long because I still suck at fighting the dragon.
So, basically, while I think it would be possible to get to the end in 15 minutes, I think it's highly improbable, first because of the blaze rod, and second because of the duplication glitch. It worked about 60% of the time for me. With everything perfectly perfect and almost no duplication, you can get to the end in 13, 14 minutes maybe. But I can't make the dragon fight without duplicating arrows at least 7 times. Basically I need to do the duplication glitch about 10 times in total. I fail about 7-8 times, so in total I do it probably almost 20 times. This takes quite some time, but I think it could be improved. I must admit I'm really impressed at the dragon fight execution in the video, I did much worse. Though I REALLY don't get how the hell did the dragon charge THIS often. I had to wait sometimes more than one MINUTE for it to come back at me so I could blow up another bed and 1/5th of its life. At the end I also died in the last explosion so I lost about one minute, one minute and a half getting back there. Overall I'd say it's plausible to think we can get to the end in... I'd say 17 minutes. And then take about 8 or 10 to kill the dragon. That would be a sub-30, MAYBE sub-25 run. I'd be really impressed. But sub-20? If someone gets sub-20 I'm definitely out of the Minecraft speedrunning league. I remind people, I'm talking single segment there.
My run is not optimal right now but I can tell something. I can get to the stronghold with some iron, wood and a bucket of water in less than 4 minutes.
Then, I duplicate stuff so I can get to the Nether rather safe. I use a very fast (probably optimal) portal building method, it takes me about 40 seconds to build a portal from scratch, but I still need to go get the stuff in the chests, find and kill skeletons until they drop arrows, fight a silverfish army, make a golden apple to duplicate, and get strings for wool and a bow later on. Overall I'm in the nether after 11:26 in my best run. This can be improved of course, I had to run around trying to find a skeleton, I missed a few duplication glitches (I think there is an important luck factor) and I duplicated a little more than was really needed.
Then, I admit I was very unlucky on the blaze rod drop, but this is really no easy task. The fortress in the seed is high up over endless lava, so there is no way you can fight blazes there. Problem is, if you find one, it's most likely just over a 30-block-high fall to lava. It's near impossible to get a blaze rod fast. You need to search a lot, and when you finally find a blaze that you can potentially kill and retrieve its drop, it DOESN'T drop a rod. I got my rod at 17:18. From the start I'd say this can possibly be improved by about 7 minutes. Let's say it takes about 3 minutes less making everything else, and you find a blaze rod very, very quickly. So at this point it'd be about 10 minutes. Single segment though, that is REALLY optimistic.
Then you have to duplicate enough arrows so you can take out the orbs. You have to make an iron armor if you didn't already, you have to get enough golden apples, and enough beds. Overall the second set of duplications took me about 3 minutes and a half. I got to the end at 22:19. Then, the dragon fight was very very long because I still suck at fighting the dragon.
So, basically, while I think it would be possible to get to the end in 15 minutes, I think it's highly improbable, first because of the blaze rod, and second because of the duplication glitch. It worked about 60% of the time for me. With everything perfectly perfect and almost no duplication, you can get to the end in 13, 14 minutes maybe. But I can't make the dragon fight without duplicating arrows at least 7 times. Basically I need to do the duplication glitch about 10 times in total. I fail about 7-8 times, so in total I do it probably almost 20 times. This takes quite some time, but I think it could be improved. I must admit I'm really impressed at the dragon fight execution in the video, I did much worse. Though I REALLY don't get how the hell did the dragon charge THIS often. I had to wait sometimes more than one MINUTE for it to come back at me so I could blow up another bed and 1/5th of its life. At the end I also died in the last explosion so I lost about one minute, one minute and a half getting back there. Overall I'd say it's plausible to think we can get to the end in... I'd say 17 minutes. And then take about 8 or 10 to kill the dragon. That would be a sub-30, MAYBE sub-25 run. I'd be really impressed. But sub-20? If someone gets sub-20 I'm definitely out of the Minecraft speedrunning league. I remind people, I'm talking single segment there.
(new acc. drMalcom)
Quote:
Though I REALLY don't get how the hell did the dragon charge THIS often.
Quote from Bismuth:
(...) Also, I thought using resets in a single segment was now permitted on SDA. Personally I consider the dupe glitch to be exactly the same thing as a reset. I'll explain it by comparing to Zelda OoT. ZFG uses savewarping and resets the game in order to make memory-manipulating glitches to complete the game faster. It's the same thing. So this makes single segment with duplication possible.
I guess SS w/ resets is possible here. However, you should set up your video software so it doesn't stop recording when exiting the game (e.g. by recording the entire desktop in Fraps)... or ask an admin to be sure.
Quote from Bismuth:
(...)because of the duplication glitch. It worked about 60% of the time for me.(...)
Considering this:
Quote from CBenni:
Good thing to know is: for the dupe glitch, you dont have to save+quit to title, all you need to do is press escape, wait 1 second and return to the game, then pickup the item, then alt-f4 and restart the game (just in case loading times are part of the run?)
I guess that the game doesn't instantly save the inventory after picking up stuff but regularly so try waiting 1 or 2 seconds before using alt+f4
Well, here's what I found about the dupe glitch.
1. It works better when you stand at least 3-4 blocks away from the items you throw before save quit to title (or maybe only escape works!).
2. It works best when you wait about 1.5 seconds before alt-f4 BUT it can work if you alt-f4 instantly AND it might be "too early" if you alt-f4 2 seconds after. It might also be "too late" if you alt-f4 1 second after.
And I record by streaming on twitch.tv. So the whole desktop is recorded AND the timer does continue when I exit the game.
Thanks for the dragon tip, it will help a lot.
1. It works better when you stand at least 3-4 blocks away from the items you throw before save quit to title (or maybe only escape works!).
2. It works best when you wait about 1.5 seconds before alt-f4 BUT it can work if you alt-f4 instantly AND it might be "too early" if you alt-f4 2 seconds after. It might also be "too late" if you alt-f4 1 second after.
And I record by streaming on twitch.tv. So the whole desktop is recorded AND the timer does continue when I exit the game.
Thanks for the dragon tip, it will help a lot.
In my opinion there could be a SS with resets and a SS "no dupe-glitch" or something, a bit like OoT any% and MST or whatever deals with at least all the temples and actually beats Ganon. Or Mario 64 0 stars, 1 star, 16 stars, 70 stars and 120 stars. (Because yes, people have done 0 and 1 on console). Though a no dupe-glitch run of Minecraft would be hella long. It's just that, denying the dupe glitch in a single segment run, to me, kills the whole point of speedrunning any%. But it may be because I don't like to run games in segments, I just don't feel accomplished if I finish Minecraft in segments that make it 20 minutes, but actually took me 2 weeks. It feels almost more tool-assisting than RTA.
Segmented runs and TAS are completely different things, Bismuth.
I agree that runs using a duplication glitch should be differentiated from runs that do not use one, and of course a differentiation between SS and segmented, so that gives up at least three categories, depending on if SS with resets is accepted for minecraft.
Also, I like the beds idea for the dragon. It may be possible to kill him in one charge by spamming bed placement in some clever way, avoiding the need to break the crystals first. Perhaps three direct hits on his head will kill him (looks like about that much damage is possible), so placing three beds right in his way MIGHT just kill him instantly. Should save some time if its possible.
I agree that runs using a duplication glitch should be differentiated from runs that do not use one, and of course a differentiation between SS and segmented, so that gives up at least three categories, depending on if SS with resets is accepted for minecraft.
Also, I like the beds idea for the dragon. It may be possible to kill him in one charge by spamming bed placement in some clever way, avoiding the need to break the crystals first. Perhaps three direct hits on his head will kill him (looks like about that much damage is possible), so placing three beds right in his way MIGHT just kill him instantly. Should save some time if its possible.
Of course I'm aware they are completely different. I just meant that it kind of loses the speedrunning fun. But that's only my opinion!
As for the multiple bed explosions... I'd be pretty surprised to see that working because it's already pretty hard to survive both the dragon charging and the explosion. Multiple ones quickly, mmmh...
As for the multiple bed explosions... I'd be pretty surprised to see that working because it's already pretty hard to survive both the dragon charging and the explosion. Multiple ones quickly, mmmh...
Quote from FlamingMage:
Also, I like the beds idea for the dragon. It may be possible to kill him in one charge by spamming bed placement in some clever way, avoiding the need to break the crystals first. Perhaps three direct hits on his head will kill him (looks like about that much damage is possible), so placing three beds right in his way MIGHT just kill him instantly. Should save some time if its possible.
What a wonderful idea. xD
Quote from Bismuth:
As for the multiple bed explosions... I'd be pretty surprised to see that working because it's already pretty hard to survive both the dragon charging and the explosion. Multiple ones quickly, mmmh...
What would happen if both the player and the dragon die at the same time?
I finished a new any% SS that went pretty good. Here's the video. It starts at 26:45. http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/b/313069428
My "split times" are:
Iron found: 1:34.88
Stronghold: 3:43.69
Nether Portal done: about 10:30 (failed my split time because of mispress)
Blaze Rod get: 13:31.39 (very unlucky drop)
End: 16:45.41
No orbs left: 21:55.38
Done: 28:33.64
My "split times" are:
Iron found: 1:34.88
Stronghold: 3:43.69
Nether Portal done: about 10:30 (failed my split time because of mispress)
Blaze Rod get: 13:31.39 (very unlucky drop)
End: 16:45.41
No orbs left: 21:55.38
Done: 28:33.64
Really nice. Good Point to start from! I guess if we have some luck, sub 20 SS is possible.
Segmented? Maybe <10? What do you think?
EDIT: While watching your End fight, i was thinking about this: you said if you try to move up to get closer to the orbs, the dragon charges at you. You had problems to get the dragon to charge at you, would it be possible to use that to lure the dragon? Im not sure if that works, it may be worth a try tho.
cu, CBenni
Segmented? Maybe <10? What do you think?
EDIT: While watching your End fight, i was thinking about this: you said if you try to move up to get closer to the orbs, the dragon charges at you. You had problems to get the dragon to charge at you, would it be possible to use that to lure the dragon? Im not sure if that works, it may be worth a try tho.
cu, CBenni
(new acc. drMalcom)
Quote:
While watching your End fight, i was thinking about this: you said if you try to move up to get closer to the orbs, the dragon charges at you.
Worthless categories WR master
I tried not looking at the dragon pretty much in my run and it didn't seem to be of any noticeable use. Though, I can say for sure that being one block lower than the beds offer an excellent protection and tend to make the dragon go a little lower, therefore improving the explosion damage. I was planning on trying to dig one block down to protect myself when I see the dragon charging. As for the orbs shooting, I did my best, many of them are very hard to reach. Building to them is, imo, not an option.
By the way, I'll be streaming live a new attempt tonight, in, say, about an hour.
CBenni: no, maybe I said it wrong or maybe you didn't understand it right. What I said (or meant to say) is, I can't move closer to the orbs that are on very high, very big pillars because then I have no angle to hit them whatsoever, making it impossible to destroy them from up close; I have to shoot from afar, and it's a guessing game. And I can't build pillars to get closer while having an angle at the orbs because the dragon charges at me every now and then and I have absolutely no means of avoiding it in such a fragile position. Inevitably, I would then fall to my death. I tried this before, it was completely inefficient to try that.
Edit: Live! http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9
EDIT: WOW I just did 18:35.33! http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/b/313183433 (starts at 18:00)
By the way, I'll be streaming live a new attempt tonight, in, say, about an hour.
CBenni: no, maybe I said it wrong or maybe you didn't understand it right. What I said (or meant to say) is, I can't move closer to the orbs that are on very high, very big pillars because then I have no angle to hit them whatsoever, making it impossible to destroy them from up close; I have to shoot from afar, and it's a guessing game. And I can't build pillars to get closer while having an angle at the orbs because the dragon charges at me every now and then and I have absolutely no means of avoiding it in such a fragile position. Inevitably, I would then fall to my death. I tried this before, it was completely inefficient to try that.
Edit: Live! http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9
EDIT: WOW I just did 18:35.33! http://www.twitch.tv/bismuth9/b/313183433 (starts at 18:00)