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HavocProdigy: 2013-10-22 08:18:26 pm
Got an 11:11 which tied my 2nd best run ever.  Very next attempt, got an 11:02.  First time I've ever completed 2 runs in a row.

New Route > Everything.  Get rekt, son.

Featuring music from Chinese Democracy by Guns N' Roses.  Don't sue me, Axl.  k, thx.
Sub 11 incoming?
Learning to Stream
I wish you streamed longer. Almost every time I see you on stream and get there shortly after [Usually do to this happening when I am at work], you're gone. Sad I have enjoyed watching what I have had the opportunity to witness though. Definitely nice to see a game that tormented me as a child be destroyed.
Edit history:
HavocProdigy: 2013-10-22 11:51:59 pm
I appreciate the kind words and I hope to see you at the stream more often.  I'll admit,  my streaming "schedule" is oftentimes rather sporadic.  A lot of people will do one long stream in a day.  Instead, I've been doing 2 or 3 shorter streams throughout the course of the afternoon/evening.  What can I say?  I'm a terrible streamer and I'll be the first to admit it.  I'm not even being sarcastic here.  I've always thought that I was a pretty shitty streamer and I didn't really think anything of it when I stopped streaming for 3 or 4 months.  I'm still trying to get used to the whole thing again.

I can't make any promises going forward but when I actually have more than a couple people watching my stream (which isn't often), I generally do my best to stream for at least a couple of hours.  Also, if I'm playing music when you or anyone else gets to the stream, it just meant that I got bored of talking to myself.  I generally will turn it off and talk if there are people in the chat.  Hope to see you there in the near future again.

Sub 11 with the new route is definitely on the way and I think it's just a matter of time before I breeze past my 10:43 SDA submission.
Learning to Stream
Definitely a good stream tonight. I wish I wasn't stuck at work for the majority of it.. or had to go back as I was on my way home...  Glad I had a chance to watch.
Thanks, man.  I had a lot of fun.  I wish I had gotten a complete run in during the stream but shit happens.
Edit history:
HavocProdigy: 2013-10-25 04:28:56 pm

Take that, middle part of the game Angry
Learning to Stream

Holy crap!! I missed tonight because I was training a colleague on how to do office work and let him alone and took over the duties at the front... and now this! Dayum! Very well done good sir!
Haters gonna hate
Holy smokes!
So for those unfamiliar, there are two runs by Japanese players that are allegedly faster than mine.  Those times in RTA timing are 9:54 and 9:57 which translate roughly to 9:47 and 9:50 SDA timing.  The new time savers are a result of two factors:

1.) New route which involves going to level 3-2 (fireplace) directly after the Right Tower.  This makes the Fireplace boss tougher since I will only have double-shot in this fight but it also makes the Left Tower and the boss of the Left Tower substantially easier.

2.) I have a new boss strategy for the later bosses which I have named "Not a fuck was given".  This involves getting right up in the faces of the bosses, caring little that I'm putting myself an inch from certain death at all times.  Not that I have the boss patterns memorized, but I'm starting to get a good feel for what trajectory each oncoming fireball will take.  Occasionally I'm wrong...and it hurts.  It's pretty much subconscious.  If I put too much thought into it, I'm screwed.

Any speed-runner that does attempts on stream is quite familiar with one questions from viewers: "What's WR for this game?".  I'm tired of explaining that there are two times that are allegedly faster but that no public video exists for those.  Since I'm tired of having to answer that way, the new goal is 9:45 SDA timing (9:52 RTA).  The sum of my best splits is 9:31.8 so I have my work cut out for me.

Fun Fact: I had an awful 4th floor/Maharito fight and lost 22.5 seconds on that split alone.  In my new PB, that split is 27.5 seconds from my gold split.
I missed the end of your stream, so I missed that run Sad I did go and watch it on the past broadcasts tho. Congrats, that was very well done Smiley
So I've been toying with the idea of a 100% run of this game for a little while now but I haven't actively pursued it because I'm on the fence about the idea.  I'd like some feedback/opinions on the idea from those that are at least somewhat familiar with the game.  Boxfat and I have been talking about possibly making it a reality and he showed some interest in not only the routing, but potentially becoming the only other member of SDA to actively run the game (the other being myself, obviously).


-A 100% route could likely draw at least a little bit of interest in others running the game due to the game being significantly easier when you collect all of the items.
-My sanity.  Failing to even be able to complete a run 99.5% of the time in the nearly impossible Any% route wears down on a person rather quickly.  My PB is now 10:07 which puts me 20 seconds away from tying the alleged record on the Japanese leaderboards but I feel like stepping away from this for a bit may keep me from blowing my brains out.


-I'm generally not in favor of games having unnecessary categories and this feels like a game that perhaps does not need an Any% and 100% route.
-Collecting 7 music boxes on each run and having to sit through 45-50 seconds of the bonus stage for each music box might not make for an exciting run to watch but I'm unsure.

I'm not married to the idea of a 100% run of this game at all so I won't be disappointed/excited one way or the other.  I'd just like some feedback from those that are at least a little familiar with the game before I start planning such a run.
How much more gameplay would there be in 100%?
Oh I've already found an example:
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HavocProdigy: 2013-11-01 11:42:23 pm
I've actually watched that video 2 or 3 times in the past.  Keep in mind that that video is a TAS and does not collect all of the honeycombs or items from Barnaby.  It's a strange TAS because the main focus is on just getting all 7 music boxes and beating the game.  However, he also purchases the sword item for some reason.  I have no idea why.

Edit: Having not routed it yet, I would expect the run to be somewhere between 20-25 minutes but I can't say for sure at this point.
I was thinking of a 100% run of this awhile ago, but I only considered all items and full health.  I didn't consider the music boxes.  I gave up because of how long I'd have to farm for gold for all the items, but if you require the music boxes it'd make things significantly easier.  100% would make the later bosses a joke, too, so your sanity would be fine I think.

But yea, it'd definitely be tedious.  Either a lot of music box or a lot of farming that one room 16 gold at a time.
I think the manual states the music boxes have a special significance, but in the end all they do is to give you a chance to collect more money. It's not like they really give Milon anything or change the ending or so. I vote for skipping them (unless it turns out to be the fastest way to collect money). When I think of 100%, it's all items that upgrade Milon (honeycombs, shoes, weapons etc). Either way, I would definitely watch a 100% run.
@jeffsledge: There are lots of rooms that are skipped in the any% route. The skipped rooms usually contain a honeycomb or a hidden shop somewhere. 100% would show more of the game for sure.
Warning: Long post (sorry)

You're absolutely correct in that the music boxes only give you a chance to gain money.  However, even with collecting all 7 music boxes, it appears that you realistically won't have enough money to buy all 9 of the items from Barnaby (he gives you 3 for free).  Here's a quick summary of what would be required:

Cane and Crown: Mandatory to make Kama (skeleton boss) appear
7 Crystals: Mandatory for advancing through the castle and completing the game
7 Music Boxes: Debatable whether this should be included (more on this later)
9 Honeycombs: extends your health bar from 7 bars of health to 16
12 Barnaby Items: 3 are given to Milon for free.  The other 9 must be purchased.  These 9 items total $280 dollars.

I'm becoming less and less interested in running 100% because of the music boxes and money.  I'll list my issues here:

-Excluding the music boxes isn't really an option since it is virtually impossible to collect enough money for the 9 purchased items without doing them. 

-From the time it takes to touch a music box to when Milon completely exits the bonus stage, we're talking 45-50 seconds...multiplied by 7.  That's about 6 minutes of the run that would entail just doing the bonus stage 7 times. 

-You receive a dollar for every 4 notes that you collect (rounded down).  Once you get to 50 notes in a single bonus stage, you receive a dollar for every 2 notes.  For example, collecting 49 notes in a single bonus game would net you $12 (49 divided by 4 and rounded down).  Collecting just one more note to get to 50 would net you $25 (50 divided by 2).  The randomness of the notes and how the bonus stage will go makes planning how much money will be needed in the other levels incredibly difficult.

-In the standard speed-run of this game (Any% , I guess), 4 rooms are skipped, plus the cash room.  In the cash room, $15 is available for free exactly 3 times (totaling $45).  Realistically, all $45 are needed here, so this room would have to be accessed 3 times, which then drops you all the way back to the 1st floor.

-Room 3-2 is the only room in which money respawns infinitely.  A total of $16 can be collected in this room over and over.  In a 100% run of this, collecting this $16, leaving the room, and going back in for the same $16 would be required.  In fact, you may have to do so a total of 3 times, depending on how well you've done on the random bonus stages.

-The 4 rooms which are skipped in the Any% route, while interesting to play from time to time, are arguably the 4 most annoying rooms in the castle.

-My final reason for being somewhat against the idea is that I appear to be the only non-Japanese player to run this game as is.  In fact, there are only 4 players on the Japanese leader-board that run this game at all (surprising when you consider how popular this game is in Japan).  The only two categories that they run are the Any% and the 8-Loop run.  Long story short, think of what happens when you complete Ghosts n' Goblins.  The enemies move faster, hit harder, and have more HP each time you loop through this game.  There is literally 1 person on the leader-board for this category in Japan and his listed time is 4:55:53 RTA.  My point is that I feel like I'd be creating a category which I'd literally be the only person running.

That's a lot of information that I just put out there!  I'm still not completely against the idea, but Boxfat and I both started to show waning interest in a 100% run rather early in the routing.  Some of my regular viewers on Twitch are aware that I'm planning to highlight a "How to Beat Milon's Secret Castle" video in the near future which won't involve speed-running at all.  It will simply be a guide on how to complete the game and it will collect everything.  While perhaps not as interesting as a speed-run, I'm actually more excited to do this than I would be to do 100% attempts of this over and over.

Any additional feedback and/or opinions are greatly appreciated.
-The 4 rooms which are skipped in the Any% route, while interesting to play from time to time, are arguably the 4 most annoying rooms in the castle.

Very this.

The only reason I could see 100% being interesting to do is if you wanted a much less demanding run.  There's a lot of money grinding and the bosses would be a joke with Excalibur, blimp, etc etc.  It'd be a much easier category than any% I imagine, and might get people interested in the game.  I highly doubt it would, but it *might*.  Haha.  Of course, that also depends on how awful those other 4 rooms are to speed run.  I hated playing through those rooms normally, so I can't imagine it being fun.

So yea, I basically agree with everything you've said.  The only real reason to do this is if you wanted to do more with the game but were tired of any%, or if you wanted to somehow make this game more accessible to new runners.  I see no other advantage.
Edit history:
HavocProdigy: 2013-11-07 12:56:38 am
HavocProdigy: 2013-11-07 12:56:14 am
It kind of sucks when something like this happens off stream.  However, I haven't reached my ultimate goal of 9:45 or better so I'm not particularly bothered by not having a Twitch Highlight of this.  I'll make sure that the next PB happens on stream and that I follow that up by doing a run slightly better on console (currently, I can't stream on console).  In RTA timing, this now puts me tied for 2nd on the leader-board (9:57 RTA) and 3 seconds from tying the alleged "world record".  Subtract 7 seconds from the times on the leader-board to get SDA timing.  Here's a link to the leader-board (in Japanese since those 4 guys are the only other peeps who actively run this game or even have a reported time).

While I don't plan on submitting runs to SDA anymore, I'll make sure that when I get the record, it is posted as a Twitch highlight, a Youtube video, and atop the SRL Leaderboards if/when they come to fruition.

On another note, I've completely scrapped making a 100% speed-run category for the reasons mentioned in previous posts.  However, I have routed a 100% play-through which I plan to do on console and post as a Twitch Highlight and Youtube video within the next few weeks.  This will demonstrate to all who have always been baffled/angered by this game how to properly destroy it in a casual manner.  Thank-you to anyone who shared their opinions on whether a 100% category should be a "thing" or not.  All of the input above was quite valuable to me.

Worth noting: I've been playing with some rather busted-up controllers in the past week or so.  One has a B button that sticks, one has an A button that sticks, and 1 has a left arrow key that sticks.  I switched controllers to the one with the faulty D-pad and the immediate result was this run.

Edit history:
HavocProdigy: 2013-11-07 12:56:58 am
Accidental double-post.  Feel free to delete.
Quote from HavocProdigy:
While I don't plan on submitting runs to SDA anymore, I'll make sure that when I get the record, it is posted as a Twitch highlight, a Youtube video, and atop the SRL Leaderboards if/when they come to fruition.

Why won't you submit to SDA anymore?

Congrats on the new run, though!

"O, human love! thou spirit given
On Earth, of all we hope in Heaven!
Which fall'st into the soul like rain
Upon the Siroc-wither'd plain,
And, failing in thy power to bless,
But leav'st the heart a wilderness!
Idea! which bindest life around
With music of so strange a sound,
And beauty of so wild a birth-
Farewell! for I have won the Earth." - Tamerlane, Edgar Allan Poe

There is no longer any doubt about what the world record for this game is.  Improvements are coming in the near future.  I expect to get this down to about 9:00.