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Might be magic...
I'm working out a route for this game, but I have a few "rules" issues that I need some advice with.


1. The format of the game is a bit unusual. The fourth and fifth games in the Might and Magic series are titled "Clouds of Xeen" and "Darkside of Xeen". When you have both of the games installed at once, they combine to form a single game "World of Xeen" with two halves. The player can travel between the two worlds at will. My initial thought is that when doing a speedrun for the "Clouds of Xeen", it should not contain any content from the "Darkside of Xeen" game, otherwise it feels like cheating because the Darkside has much higher rewards than the Clouds and the 4th game is then too easy.

The question: Would it be allowed to travel to the Darkside (5th) world when doing a speedrun for the Clouds (4th) world?


2. Some special codes can be used at portal mirrors right from the beginning of the game and may be considered cheating. The following codes were clearly created for playtesting / debugging purposes during development:
- "I Lost It", gives the player a copy of the only weapon in the game which is able to defeat the final boss (which is needed to win the game). There is normally only one of these weapons accessible in the game, but this code allows more than one to be created.
- "Lord Xeen", teleports the player to the final boss
- "Showtime", displays the endgame sequence


3. The following portal codes may be considered cheating but I think it needs an official decision:
+ "Shangri-La", teleports the player to the hidden city of Shangri-La, where lots of goodies are accessible. This doesn't seem like a cheat because if you know the name of the city it's legitimate to type that into a portal (it's the way the other cities work too)
+ "Count Du Money", drops the player in a relatively safe location in a difficult dungeon next to a big pile of cash and loot. I would lean towards cheating in this case as it also seems like a playtesting code and there is no way to discover it without looking at the game files or finding out from another source. However, there is a fairly easy way to get to this cash without fighting anyway so it's not a huge advantage.


There's a previous run here, but it uses some of the cheaty portal codes:
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/might_and_magic_clouds_of_xeen_in_6_minutes.html

I would have added to that thread but I'm not expecting to complete the game in six minutes.
Thread title:  
Edit history:
gammadragon: 2014-08-30 03:10:34 am
gammadragon: 2014-08-30 02:16:12 am
gammadragon: 2014-08-29 10:10:22 pm
Might be magic...
The GameFAQs page is a really good resource for game info.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/932529-might-and-magic-world-of-xeen/faqs/63552

Here's my route so far:

Use quickstart party (because it's fast)



Part 1: Getting started

Portal to "Winterkill"
Dodge Spirit Bones, head towards portal, pick up 3000 gold from bed

Portal to "Shangri-la"
Get +1 level from well for Sorceror
Rest to gain spellpoints
Get guild membership
Buy spells for Sorceror: Lloyd's Beacon and Teleport
Buy spells for Ranger: Lloyd's Beacon
Have Sorceror cast Lloyd's Beacon and return to Vertigo

Portal to "Land of the Giants"
Moving backwards, go 2S, 2W, 2S, 1W
Teleport 8S
Have Ranger and Sorceror drink from fountain (+250 spellpoints)
Have Sorceror cast Lloyd's Beacon and set beacon
Have Ranger cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to Vertigo
Have Ranger cast Lloyd's Beacon in front of Portal and set beacon

Portal to "Dragon Lair"
Enter Dragon Lair and walk 2E
Teleport 6S, 6E, 8S, 7E
Pick up treasure piles, head to NE corner of room
Teleport 9E, 3E
Pick up treasure piles (should now have 200K gold and 2000 gems)
Have Ranger cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to Vertigo

Portal to "Shangri-la"
Buy spells for Paladin: Town Portal
Buy spells for Cleric: Day of Protection
Buy spells for Sorceror: Day of Sorcery
Have Ranger cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to Vertigo



Part 2: Rescue Crodo

Portal to "Cave of Illusion"
Enter cave and cast Light
Teleport 1S, 9E, 8S, 5E, 5S, follow path down
Teleport 2W, 2S, follow path down
Teleport 9S, 3S, 2W, 2S, follow path down
Teleport 3E, 8N, pay skull 300 gems for key to Tower of High Magic

Have Sorceror cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to magic fountain
Rest, then have spellcasters drink from fountain
Have Ranger cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to Vertigo

Portal to "Tower of High Magic"
Avoid enemies by moving backwards 1N, 1E, 1S, then enter tower
Move 1E, 1S, teleport 4E, move backwards 1S, 1E, 1S, go up stairs
Teleport 6N, go up stairs
Teleport 4W, go up stairs
Teleport 6S, move 2E, teleport 7N, open box to get key to Darzog's Tower
Have Ranger cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to Vertigo

Portal to "Darzogs Tower"
Moving backwards, go 1N, 1E, 1N, enter tower
Move 1W, teleport 2N, go up stairs
Teleport 4S, 4W, move 1N, Teleport 3E, 4N, go up stairs
Teleport 5S, 2W, search bed to rescue Crodo (+1mil xp)
Use cage to go up rope ladder
Teleport 2N, move 1E, teleport 3S and quickly go up stairs to clouds above Darzog's Tower
Have Ranger cast Lloyd's Beacon and set beacon



Part 3: Obtain Xeen Slayer Sword

Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Rivercity
Head to training grounds and train all party members
Have Sorceror cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to magic fountain
Have spellcasters drink from fountain
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Nightshadow
Exit Nightshadow and talk to Mirabeth to get Yak Stone of Opening
Have Sorceror cast Day of Sorcery, Cleric cast Day of Protection
Move 1E, 1N, teleport 7E, enter Temple of Yak
Teleport 8E, 7S, get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 2E get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 3E get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 2E get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 3E get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 4E get King's Mega Credit
Move 1W, teleport 9N, 9N, move 1E, 1N, get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 6S, get King's Mega Credit
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Rivercity

Exit Rivercity, move 1S, teleport 9S, buy deed to Newcastle for 50K gold
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Vertigo
Portal to "Castle Burlock"
Talk to King's Engineer and build Newcastle walls
Teleport 3N, talk to Artemis twice to get Excavation Permit
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Rivercity
Exit Rivercity, move 1S, teleport 9S, enter Newcastle to obtain Stone of a Thousand Terrors

Exit Newcastle, teleport 5W, 7S, enter Tomb of a Thousand Terrors
Move 3W, teleport 9W, move 1S, get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 9N, 5N, get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 6W, move 1N, get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 9W, 9S, 5S, move 1W, get King's Mega Credit
Move 5E, teleport 7S, get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 7E, 4N get King's Mega Credit
Teleport 8S get King's Mega Credit

Have Sorceror cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to magic fountain
Rest, have spellcasters drink from fountain
Have Cleric cast Day of Protection
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Vertigo
Portal to "Castle Burlock"
Enter castle, talk to King's Engineer to build Newcastle keep
Have Sorceror cast Lloyd's Beacon and set beacon near King's Engineer
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Rivercity
Exit city, teleport 9S, Enter Newcastle
Have Sorceror cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to King's Engineer
Talk to King's Engineer to build Newcastle dungeon
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Rivercity
Head north and buy "Navigator" for Paladin
Exit city, teleport 9S, Enter Newcastle
Enter dungeon (use password "laboratory")
Move 1S, teleport 9S, 5E, get Xeen Slayer Sword





Part 4: Finale

Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Vertigo
Portal to "Cave of Illusion"
Move 2W, teleport 4N, drink from well with Paladin (+50 Accuracy)
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Asp
Exit city, teleport 7W, 6N, drink from well with Paladin (+50 Endurance)
Have Paladin cast Town Portal to Vertigo
Portal to "Jousters Savannah"
Teleport 5E, move 1N, drink from well with Paladin (+50 Might)
Teleport 8E, 8E, 4S, drink from well with Paladin (+50 Speed)

Have Sorceror cast Day of Sorcery
Have Ranger cast Lloyd's Beacon and recall to Clouds above Darzog's Tower
Teleport across chasm, play games, win four dolls
Exchange four dolls for Cupie Doll, teleport 4E, Enter Castle Xeen
Move 4N, 2W, teleport 7N, go up stairs
Teleport 4S, go up stairs
Teleport 5E, move 1N, go up stairs
Teleport 3W
Kill Xeen with Xeen Slayer Sword, passing the sword to the next player each turn
Use mirror to trigger endgame
Edit history:
gammadragon: 2014-09-07 04:19:22 am
Might be magic...
I completed a demo run of the route. It has a couple of mistakes but it's actually not too bad. Total time was about 11m 25s
Edit: link removed
Learning to Stream
Quote from gammadragon:
I completed a demo run of the route. It has a couple of mistakes but it's actually not too bad. Total time was about 11m 25s


Very nice! I was quite entertained with it and you definitely made this game your bitch.
Might be magic...
Quote from Mr. Kelly R. Flewin:
Very nice! I was quite entertained with it and you definitely made this game your bitch.


Thanks! I think after a lot of practice it will be possible to get under 10 minutes with this route, so I might try for that at some point.

Any ideas for improvements?
sda loyalist
Have not played this one yet! After submitting Ultima, I've been casting around for something new to do, and I've settled on either Ultima 2 or Might & Magic. Cool to see these classic series getting destroyed like they deserve.

Excellent run!

I would rather you kept the Clouds and Darkside games separate; much easier to organise them on the game pages, for one thing. If not, it would obviously be a separate category and you should have to beat both games, kind of like Diablo II + Lord of Destruction I guess.
Might be magic...
Quote from Lag.Com:
Have not played this one yet! After submitting Ultima, I've been casting around for something new to do, and I've settled on either Ultima 2 or Might & Magic. Cool to see these classic series getting destroyed like they deserve.


Awesome job with Ultima. It's our solemn duty as classic gamers to absolutely take these games apart.
I'm hoping to see the entire Ultima and M&M series up here one day (though if U9 doesn't make it I won't be shedding any tears)

Which games of each series are you familiar with? I've completed all of M&M except for 1, 9 and 10 and completed Ultima 7+ and the Underworlds (but not "Worlds of Ultima"). Maybe we can divide and conquer.

Quote from Lag.Com:
Excellent run!


Thanks! Will definitely try to improve it.

Quote from Lag.Com:
I would rather you kept the Clouds and Darkside games separate; much easier to organise them on the game pages, for one thing. If not, it would obviously be a separate category and you should have to beat both games, kind of like Diablo II + Lord of Destruction I guess.


Yeah I agree. I'll keep working on the assumption that this is the rule. Though it probably only matters if other people start running the game too and are looking to do things differently.
sda loyalist
I'm actually fairly new to both series, my main Ultima knowledge is with the Underworlds (which you have now staked a pretty good claim on :P). I'm just a big fan of first person dungeon crawlers; I hope to do Arena and Daggerfall too someday. And the Bard's Tale!
Edit history:
gammadragon: 2014-09-07 04:19:36 am
gammadragon: 2014-09-04 02:36:59 am
Might be magic...
I got a 9m 32s run today. It's definitely possible to get under 9 minutes because I made quite a few mistakes in the execution of my best run.

Edit: link removed
Learning to Stream
Quote from gammadragon:
I got a 9m 32s run today. It's definitely possible to get under 9 minutes because I made quite a few mistakes in the execution of my best run.

Edit: Youtube link -



VERY nice! Too bad for those pesky Gints and Castels ruining it. Smiley

At this rate, how low do you feel it may ultimately be possible to get, outside of a TAS?? I am thinking perhaps lower end 8:35 or so??
Might be magic...
Quote from Mr. Kelly R. Flewin:
At this rate, how low do you feel it may ultimately be possible to get, outside of a TAS?? I am thinking perhaps lower end 8:35 or so??

I think your guess is pretty close. An absolute machine could probably reach the 8 min mark I think. There is very little randomness in this run. I've never done a TAS before but I think it would get a pretty awesome time - 6 mins maybe?

For humans though, there are a few difficulties in running this game:
- It's a pretty hyperactive run. There's a lot of fingers flying all over the keyboard in order to cast spells, use objects, etc.
- Even though it's quite short, there's a lot of memory involved. Things which change, like tracking which spell is in which numbered slot at various parts of the run mean it's quite hard to develop muscle memory for it too.
- There's an annoying delay between keypresses and seeing the results on-screen, which means it's quite hard to watch the screen and get a good time as well. I mostly work around this by memorizing entire sections and then letting my hands do the work without looking at the screen. I could probably do most of it with my eyes closed now.


I'll submit when I get under 9 minutes Smiley
Learning to Stream
Quote:
I could probably do most of it with my eyes closed now.


o.o;;


Quote:
I'll submit when I get under 9 minutes Smiley



Do you stream at all??  I would love to watch attempts live. The videos are a blast and to be able to hear your thoughts, live, would be intriguing.
Might be magic...
Quote from Mr. Kelly R. Flewin:
Do you stream at all??  I would love to watch attempts live. The videos are a blast and to be able to hear your thoughts, live, would be intriguing.

Haven't streamed before, but one day I might. For this game it would probably be a bit boring anyway, as my concentration level is pretty high to keep thinking 5 seconds ahead. Some people might be able to do it better than me, but it takes me a fair amount of effort.

It's nice to know that other people actually enjoy watching it though Smiley
Might be magic...
I finally beat 9 minutes:

Is it perfect? Definitely not. It certainly has its share of typing errors and wrong keypresses. But I'm going to submit this one because it's pretty awesome. Hopefully someone will come along later and improve it even further Smiley