Micomsoft SC-512N1-L - New review up at http://www.thethrillness.com/2014/01/micomsoft-sc-512n1-ldvi-capture-card.html

2013-08-21 05:59:14 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Thanks for looking at it. It might just be composite video, meh. I'll run LttP on my SNES with S-Video and see if it improves the brightness soon.

Andrew_Mills

2013-08-22 01:27:22 pm

AlphaStrategyGui des.com

As much as I am a stickler for lossless quality, not many people's devices/PC's can comfortably play 1080p60, and if they can it's a much smaller number than those who can watch 1080p30. I've pondered if 1080p60 was worth it for our video guides, but in reality, even 1080p30 will do for pretty much every next-gen game (I'd bet a month's salary that most early next-gen games will run at 1080p30 max). And for that the Elgato does the trick.

TheThrillness

2013-08-22 06:05:35 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

nate, here is LttP S-Video from a SNES: http://www.filedropper.com/lttpsvideo

The low brightness when I jump down is also there so maybe this is how the game should look?

I do actually notice some slight horizontal lines in the video. It's the official Nintendo S-Video cable so I don't know what I can do. I'll need to compare with my Dazzle to see if that gives lines before I can blame the cable.

blizzz

2013-08-22 06:29:43 pm

I don't see any horizontal lines in that clip. That area is supposed to be dark, but it's not that dark on my TV (with RGB Scart). I think the clip is great for S-Video.

TheThrillness

2013-08-22 07:24:10 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Ugh, I meant vertical. My bad. God I need sleep.

I'll try Wii 480p Component tomorrow and see what the brightness is like.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-22 07:51:22 pm

2013-08-22 07:47:01 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Did a quick 4 comparison with my Dazzle: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/37963/picture:0

I honestly think the Dazzle is too bright (not to mention off centre). Maybe the SC-512 is correct levels for composite/S-Video. I guess we need some other good SD capture card to compare to.

Regardless it looks like all submittable video so I can't complain.

nate

2013-08-22 07:53:28 pm

i don't think there's such a thing as correct levels in ntsc ... it's more like "fiddle with the knobs and pray". regardless, the sc-512 does look rather dark, and the dazzle does look rather bright.

gyth

2013-08-22 08:40:17 pm

Here is my try.

Code:

avisource("zeldalttpsc512.avi")
assumetff
separatefields
assumeframebased
crop(0,8,0,224)
converttoyv24
LUTDeRainbow
sharpen(.3,0)
lanczosresize(256,224, 40.4,0,639.4,0, taps=2)
sharpen(.3,0)

x264_8 %~1 -o 8bit420.mp4 --sar 5:4 --preset veryslow --tune touhou --crf 17
x264_10 %~1 -o 10bit444.mp4 --sar 5:4 --preset veryslow --tune touhou --output-csp i444 --crf 17

Attachments:

10bit444.mp4

8bit420.mp4

TheThrillness

2013-08-22 09:17:44 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Wii 480p using the card is below (as expected spot on IMO). I also attached S-Video to show the brightness difference. Is the difference between S-Video and component that bad? Like nate said the SC-512 is maybe slightly too dark but the Dazzle is way too bright so I have no reference analog material to know for sure.

Attachments:

svideocomapre.png

wii480p.png

oasiz

2013-08-23 12:42:02 am

Iha paska

Could this simply be related to the japanese IRE value I keep hearing about ?
The one where the peaks for black are a bit different from the typical US standard.

Would make sense since this is a japanese card after all.
Can probably be reverted to US-like levels with a simple software video pass ?

http://www.glennchan.info/articles/technical/setup/75IREsetup.html

MrLonghair

2013-08-23 04:50:33 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

The darker signal seems to to be flat out weaker, really. Are the cables up to spec? Official made?

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-23 12:24:18 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-23 12:17:56 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-23 12:14:09 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-23 12:09:38 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-23 12:07:35 pm

2013-08-23 11:55:24 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I followed the AviSynth command here: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/312084-Virtualdub-NTSC-J-to-NTSC

DirectShowSource("D:\blackissue.avi")
Levels(0,1,255,16,255, coring=false)

It sort of looks better but I did set the capture filter to NTSC_M so it should have set it properly. Yes Longhair it is official cables.

http://i.imgur.com/VifbWxy.png

I guess if anyone is interested they can use their own commands with the http://www.filedropper.com/lttpsvideo video and see if they can get anything better.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-23 10:13:06 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-23 10:11:30 pm

2013-08-23 06:54:24 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I am very stupid..... I have been using a Super Famicom so output was NTSC-J..... and I was choosing NTSC_M.....

Choosing NTSC-J gives good brightness (see below).

One thing I don't get though, why is my Wii output screwed over composite? I region changed my Wii to USA and set video mode to NTSC and I am running the NTSC game. Choosing NTSC_M should be right but it's not. Component was fine.

Here is two photos of the NTSC game under NTSC_M then NTSC_J:

NTSC_M: http://i.imgur.com/9ZzpZLX.png

NTSC_J: http://i.imgur.com/ke5ptH8.png

It's wrong but should I be setting NTSC_J for everything then (even if I am using an NTSC console)?

honorableJay

2013-08-24 12:12:55 am

The Dork Knight himself.

I'd guess that it has to do with the encoder chip. Even though you changed the software to believe it's a USA machine the chip is still encoding to the NTSC_J standard. In this case, just set your capture card to accept a NTSC_J signal and you'll be fine. As for component, it sounds like there are stricter standards which makes the video look the same regardless of the region (which makes sense, newer standards compared to composite).

TheThrillness

2013-08-24 12:44:09 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I originally had a PAL Wii so it has no reason to encode at NTSC-J spec.

This is a tough one. My only guess that the Wii's NTSC video mode is actually NTSC-J but that's pretty far fetched.

blizzz

2013-08-24 03:59:07 am

PAL and NTSC-J have the same black level, maybe that's why? Would be weird though.

DJS

2013-08-24 05:31:41 am

torch slug since 2006

fwiw, you also have to select ntsc_m-j as the input on a dazzle dvc100 to get decent brightness.
but i dont really believe in the japan vs american black standard, because this applies to me even when im playing american goldeneye 64 on an american n64.
although i suspose its possible that japanese and american n64 uses the exact same japanese video chips but i dont know....

Anemptybox

Edit history:

Anemptybox: 2013-08-24 06:18:52 am

2013-08-24 06:14:00 am

Choosing NTSC_m-J fixes the darkness problem for me when I play NTSC games on my PS2, but the screen is black and white. Do you know how to fix that, DJS? I'm playing on a PAL PS2 using EzCAP. I have to use NTSC_433 to play NTSC in colour.

DJS

2013-08-24 06:37:28 am

torch slug since 2006

i think your only choice is to use one of the PAL modes. i dont know alot about PAL stuff ironically.

Anemptybox

Edit history:

Anemptybox: 2013-08-24 07:10:27 am

Anemptybox: 2013-08-24 07:09:44 am

2013-08-24 06:48:11 am

The only PAL modes that work are PAL_M and PAL_60, both of which have the darkness problem and are black and white.

Can I use Avisynth to fix the darkness problem and if so, how? (Like TheThrillness above, I forgot what thread I was in.)

Thanks.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-24 01:27:00 pm

2013-08-24 01:08:47 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Maybe we need a sticky to alert people to this issue that you have to use NTSC_J for older consoles?

Makes me think then, is this the same for newer consoles to? What about PS3? Should I just set NTSC_J for everything?

Box, if you want to use AviSynth just take that code from above and save it (of course change the file directory/name) and save it as script.avs in notepad. It should then open in a media player or VirtualDub with correct levels.

Also I think that your PAL console might be outputting PAL60 video for NTSC games. That's what NTSC_433 does. Stick to it if you have no problems.

blizzz

2013-08-24 01:49:03 pm

Many cards don't accept PAL60 and only show a b/w picture because they think it's NTSC.

DJS

Edit history:

DJS: 2013-08-24 02:29:46 pm

DJS: 2013-08-24 02:29:25 pm

DJS: 2013-08-24 02:28:36 pm

2013-08-24 02:23:31 pm

torch slug since 2006

you can trick a dazzle dvc100 into pal60 by first selecting NTSC_x and then SECAM_B.

actually its a bit specifc on how you do this: if you're using amarec, when you have the b&w picture, go into settings > graph 1 (device) > device setting. and here select SECAM_B in the list, then hit OK on just that box, but cancel the amarec boxes (dont apply/ok) because that will idk how to explain, "hard-apply" (?) SECAM_B which will keep it b&w. if you however just go from NTSC_x to SECAM_B, and then just ok that one box, and cancel the amarec boxes, it will work (amarec shouldnt "refresh" the picture like it does when you hit apply).. its weird.

ahuynh

2013-08-24 08:41:41 pm

My PS3 outputs NTSC-J. Since the black level issue is so common, I bet Nintendo and Sony's consoles both follow the NTSC-J format even for American consoles. The consoles that I would guess would use NTSC and NOT NTSC-J would be the Xbox and Xbox 360 as they are American consoles. That's a guess though, someone else can try for themselves as I do not own any Xbox at all.

TheThrillness

2013-08-24 09:19:16 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I actually switched between NTSC_M and NTSC_J while on PS3 HDMI and it made no difference on the black level. That's one less headache to worry about!