Micomsoft SC-512N1-L - New review up at http://www.thethrillness.com/2014/01/micomsoft-sc-512n1-ldvi-capture-card.html

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2014-01-30 08:47:32 am

TheThrillness: 2014-01-30 08:47:00 am

TheThrillness: 2013-08-07 08:40:30 am

2013-08-07 08:39:32 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Edit: You can see my review here: http://www.thethrillness.com/2014/01/micomsoft-sc-512n1-ldvi-capture-card.html

I have decided to create a quality test thread for Micomsoft's new capture card.

I'll start this off with a picture that will make you drool: http://i.imgur.com/Tl7Ifwz.png

Yes... that is 1080p 59.94 and 2160p 59.94 capture... PS4? Xbox One? No problem!

I'll start from the low generation of consoles and make my way up. I apologize for maybe sometimes double posting quality tests but if nate or bos could check them off as it goes, I would be grateful. I just want to see how good this card actually is.

All tests will be done using the Lagarith lossless codec in YUY2 mode with AmarecTV and encoded with yua.

Quality tests will follow below very soon. Please post any questions.

Thread title:

TheThrillness

2013-08-07 08:46:14 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

The first test is 240p. I actually only have a Super Nintendo so tests will be limited to that along with composite and S-Video.

You still have to capture 720x480 at 29.97. Capturing 720x240 sort of works but not well enough. The game is SF2 World Warrior.

The "no change" option in yua gave no shaky video so I chose that.

Attachments:

worldwarriorcomposite_HQ.mp4

worldwarriorsvideo_HQ.mp4

blizzz

Edit history:

blizzz: 2013-08-07 09:02:52 am

blizzz: 2013-08-07 09:02:51 am

blizzz: 2013-08-07 09:00:00 am

2013-08-07 08:57:56 am

1080p60 is ~356MB/s for 24bit TrueColor. A single lane of PCIe 2.0 has a peak bandwidth of 500MB/s (PCIe 1.0 was 250MB/s, that's why the card requires 2.0).

4K (UHD) bandwidth is: ~570MB/s for 24p, ~712MB/s for 30p/60i and ~1,423MB/s for 60p. That's with TrueColor, DeepColor 4k at 59.94fps would be ~2,845MB/s. It's just technically not possible for the card to capture 4K.

Edit: Btw, why do you limit your 240p test to S-Video? The major selling point of the Micomsoft cards is their ability to capture 15KHz RGB.

MrLonghair

Edit history:

MrLonghair: 2013-08-17 05:31:13 am

MrLonghair: 2013-08-07 09:26:36 am

MrLonghair: 2013-08-07 09:25:05 am

2013-08-07 09:23:59 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

I want to add that this retails for 33730 yen directly from Micomsoft themselves, so $349 US, €262, £225, the cheapest any capture device capable of 1080p60 recordings can be had for new I believe. Thank you for doing these tests.

(The USB3 boxed version costs a smidgeon more)

update: The new actual cheapest 1080p60 recording hardware I can find for new is a 20 800 yen USB3 box from SkNet Japan but USB3's still, unfortunately a bit of a mess to get exactly the right spec of in your computer, it's a capture card in a box and not an external encoder.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-07 09:37:59 am

2013-08-07 09:36:01 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

blizzz, I remember reading somewhere on Blackmagic forum that 1080p 60 was 248 MB/s which was why it was never included on 1.0 spec. Doom9 user also says 422 would be 248 MB/s: "when 422 1080p requires 248MB/s or thereabouts."

Source: http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-120785-p-3.html

From that statement, 4K would be JUST under the 500MB/s of 2.0 so maybe with some wizardry and YUY2 display they made it possible. Why on earth have that as an option in Amarec? I have to agree though. It sounds ridiculous but 1080p 59.94 is good enough anyway (my hard drive is going to love me when I get to PS3 testing). Also I don't have the XSYNC-1 yet so no RGB. Sad

I have a flash card lying about somewhere so I can do other Super Nintendo games if anybody wants.

blizzz

2013-08-07 09:39:32 am

Even assuming that they somehow manage to process 4K 60p, how would you feed it into the card. It's not a HDMI resolution and would need 4 HighSpeed HDMI cables if I remember correctly.

TheThrillness

2013-08-07 09:45:38 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Looks like it will be a HDMI resolution in 2.0 spec: http://www.audioholics.com/hdtv-formats/hdmi-2.0-specification

and 2160p capable cables are cheap (I use these): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-2M-1-4V-Pro-HDMI-Cable-HD-Ready-Full-3D-Genuine-BLACK-UK-/160664825115?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item25685ead1b

But then again the HDMI version of the card won't do 2.0 spec so meh. We will see what happens.

TheThrillness

2013-08-07 01:36:23 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Zelda: OoT 480p component from Wii. The down scaling to D4 really hurts the quality. Sad

Wish I had the upload speed to send lengthy raw files for you guys to enjoy. It's definitely the best component quality I've ever seen.

Attachments:

oot480pcomponent_HQ.mp4

zeldacomponent480p.png

blizzz

2013-08-07 02:37:22 pm

Quote from TheThrillness:

Wish I had the upload speed to send lengthy raw files for you guys to enjoy. It's definitely the best component quality I've ever seen.

Now you'll have to take comparison shots with the SC-500N1 Tongue

TheThrillness

2013-08-07 02:58:31 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I actually took that out to put in this card... lol.

It might be the same as the SC-500N1 and viewing the videos with madVR was helping the visual improvement.

TheThrillness

2013-08-15 11:00:18 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Sorry for the late posting. Been busy. Decided to test what everyone is looking for. 1080p PS3 59.94. Smiley

No matter if a static scene, Lagarith lossless just buckles my CPU. I can use Huffyuv if I have static scenes (CPU around 60%) but moment you do any fast movement it buckles (see lossless.png) and the CPU and HDD writing speed goes insane.

The best bet seems to be x264vfw which actually seems to handle it fine (even lossless mode). I'll need to do more testing.

Anyway, here is a quick 20 second sample of the PS3 1080p menu encoded with Yua (XQ mode). The most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

Attachments:

lossless.png

ps31080p_XQ.mp4

blizzz

2013-08-15 11:43:20 am

Looks like you really need an internal RAID (0 / 10 / 5) for 1080p60 lossless.

unwary

2013-08-15 05:31:58 pm

Don't suppose you could create a test video of Zelda 2? So far the quality looks awesome.

TheThrillness

2013-08-15 05:54:55 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I could but it would only be from Wii VC. I could emulate a NES by hooking up Wii composite I guess which gives me a 240p image. Is that okay? I can just do 480p if you want.

oasiz

2013-08-17 04:02:25 am

Iha paska

HOLY SHIT!

So basically this is just like the 510 / PEXHDCAP, except with 1080p60 option ?

I am so sold if it's so.. Been looking for an affordable 1080p60 card to appear for some time now.
This would be the ultimate "all in one".

Can you test if the PAL RGB stuff works, if this is possible ?
Mainly interested on lowres stuff for amiga and such.

Thanks!

MrLonghair

2013-08-17 05:30:58 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

Yep!

The new actual cheapest 1080p60 recording hardware I can find for new is a 20 800 yen USB3 box from SkNet Japan but USB3's still, unfortunately a bit of a mess to get exactly the right spec of in your computer, it's a capture card in a box and not an external encoder.

blizzz

2013-08-17 05:52:13 am

Thrillness, can you do some tests with 15KHz RGB? I'm also curious about the passthrough. Does it just mirror the input or convert it to DVI/HDMI? From what I've read, the card sees 240p as 480i. So I guess a linedoubled HDMI output of 240p RGB sources is out of the question Sad

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-17 08:52:23 am

TheThrillness: 2013-08-17 08:49:53 am

TheThrillness: 2013-08-17 08:49:29 am

TheThrillness: 2013-08-17 08:47:16 am

2013-08-17 08:46:42 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

oasiz, pretty much. It also has the option to capture composite and s-video.

blizzz, I'll try and get a XSYNC-1 soon but with only a SNES and N64 with RGB, I have limited use for it.

To test mirroring I tried component from Wii. Only component would give a picture (I then stuck in HDMI and no video) so it is a straight passthrough. The card only reads 240p as 480i when using composite and S-Video (well you can record 720x240 but it's at 30fps). I remember giving nate the F-Zero deinterlaced S-Video 480i sample from the amarec blog and he said "this looks fantastic. probably top tier of any old system capture i've seen."

240p RGB should work fine (the amarec blog says it does) but one worrying aspect that they bundled two of everything besides 2 of the DVI to VGA adapter for RGB. Luckily I have an identical adapter that came with the PEXHDCAP so I can also try RGB passthrough if I get the XSYNC-1.

blizzz

2013-08-17 09:16:18 am

Oh, I always assumed that you have a SyncStrike. The 510N-1 can also record composite and S-Video, you just have to buy the adapter that's sold by Elgato.

The only major advantage of the 512N1-L would be the component and RGB passthrough for me. I do have a big component splitter (I think it's 1 to 10 xD) and also a Scart splitter, but a built in passthrough is really nice. 1080p60 is also nice, but I think I would still use the Elgato HD for that anyway. I hope that Startech releases the card here in Europe for 100-150€ soon Cheesy

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-17 09:54:10 am

TheThrillness: 2013-08-17 09:52:12 am

2013-08-17 09:51:14 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Oh I forgot about the SyncStrike. Will that do the same job? (I know very little about RGB capture). I actually have no idea how I would get audio though on passthrough? My best guess is I use the audio breakout of the Sync Strike to stereo left and right and select line in audio for the DVI-A input? I then output line in audio using the component or composite/s-video breakout cable and feed that and VGA to my TV? (I guess that only works if my TV allows me to combine an audio source over VGA).

blizzz

Edit history:

blizzz: 2013-08-17 10:18:59 am

2013-08-17 10:13:31 am

The RGB setup is:
Console >Scart> (RGB Splitter) > SyncStrike >VGA> DVI-I in
>2xRCA> Audio in on one of the breakout cables
I would assume that with the passthrough you need some kind of custom HD15 to Scart ca
ble. I would assume that you get the audio from the component passthrough and either feed it into the custom cable or use a Scart adapter to incect the audio.

The SyncStrike does 3 things:
1. Act as a Scart to HD15 adapter
2. Act as an audio breakout
3. Clean the sync signal (powered by the Scart signal)

I'm not too familiar with the XSYNC-1, but for this setup the functionality is the same with both.

Edit: There also exist some monitors that accept 15kHz signals on their VGA input, but if you use the breakout you'll likely want to use a CRT with Scart anyway. Otherwise you could play with the preview window.

Tranquilite

2013-08-17 04:12:25 pm

My NEC 1970NX LCD monitor supports 15khz RGBHV over vga connection. It doesn't support interlaced connections though, so 240p only. I use it for all my SNES stuff, and it looks fantastic.

Also, seeing as how the 510N-1 can apparently record svideo and composite as well, can anybody post the pinout of the svideo/composite breakout cable? If you have a multimeter it will only take a mintue, and I'd like to have a go at hacking my own breakout cable together before I spring for the Elgato one.

presjpolk

2013-08-18 03:29:28 am

HELLO!

It's sounding like Micomsoft makes good stuff. I need to read up more.

TheThrillness

2013-08-18 03:18:52 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I spliced together some Lagarith lossless composite scenes from LttP on the Wii VC (you can experiment with different deinterlacing methods I guess): http://www.filedropper.com/zeldalttpsc512

Overall it's perfectly fine for composite. Only issue seems to be at the end where it seems just a tad too dark once I jump down into the castle but maybe this is how the game should look (or just an issue with composite).

In case unwary is still there, here is a short Zelda 2 sample also with composite video: http://www.filedropper.com/zelda2sample

nate

2013-08-21 05:26:28 pm

this all looks promising. we need more 1080p runs on sda. too bad most games only run at 720p. well, maybe that will change with the next gen systems.

ran those zelda videos through yua just to see. some minor rainbows but because it's composite that's probably inevitable. not sure about the brightness ... i don't know anything about zelda 2, lol. maybe it's night or something.

Attachments:

lttp_HQ.mp4

z2_HQ.mp4